Gekko - Fireside Chat_-_CATCHERS

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:53 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

Oh John I am in a good mood cuz my dawgs are wippin Hawaii... I know this is a baseball forum, but I cannot resist doing a little Dawg Barkin' here! In the last couple of years and change, poor old dumb slow UGA has had to play the two primo candidates for why the WAC deserves regular consideration in the big boy games. The pundits had it as that old "Run and Gun" had the Bulldogs number! Combined scores of those two WAC runaway games?

UGA 89 - Boise/Hawaii 23.

The SEC (already 6-2 in this years bowl season)! Where REAL football is played!

My apologies Mark for the hijack. Now back to your regularily scheduled programming.

[ January 02, 2008, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: Edwards Kings ]

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:55 am

Man bjoak I have been downgraded from Curt Angle letting himself go a bit to butterbean that hurts... especially coming from a butt buddy.

I just glanced at what Zaleski had to say classic bait and switch. I don't like people talking about my terrible track record which by the way I meant tongue and cheek. Bjoak already listed the excuses funny stuff.

The only reason people should fear ole Chest in Vegas is I am friends with Dan Kenyon who is about 6'5 according to my sources and very protective of little ole Chest other than that I am harmless.

I must say though I have several pals in this event who tell me how Zaleski acts like the 100k is in the bag after the draft and I must say I want to hear it in person.

I love the Shields, Bedard, Bonderman comment- you don't think there are about 350 other guys who could say the same thing? I prefer Bjoaks assesment of I blew it with Mauer, Bay, Bonderman and will get it right next year.

By the way Gordon- I challenged you to reinvent yourself a few weeks ago. IMO you have knocked it out of the park with this. Good thought provoking info in a format where you can tell the truth but still not show your hand too much. Good job-

Plymouth · Post by **Plymouth** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:29 am

Come on now boys, this is after all just a game that is supposed to be fun. Taking it this seriously and getting your hearts racing is not good for you and is not really needed here. Let's just stick to baseball talk and take personalities out of it. I don't think saying that someone will be waiting for you in Vegas is appropriate for these boards and is way below the standards of the NFBC and most of the participants.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:47 am

Originally posted by ToddZ:

An since you asked so nicely GG, Towles .282-12-60-7-57 Thanks for the nugget. It almost got lost in all the "man-upping" in this thread!

Do you think he can exceed the SB projection?

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:48 am

Originally posted by Plymouth:

I don't think saying that someone will be waiting for you in Vegas is appropriate for these boards and is way below the standards of the NFBC and most of the participants. Plymouth maybe I am the fool but I assumed everyone knew that is a joke. I do believe Doughboys is 6 feet 5, I do believe he thinks of me as a long lost bastard child but I do not think he is going to go pile drive Zaleski because he picks on me. Not blaming you for taking it the wrong way that is a risk when you write that kind of junk but did want to clarify it.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:57 am

Originally posted by Plymouth:

I don't always agree with what you have to say Gordon but I always appreciate you getting baseball discussions moving here on the boards. The discussions often cause me to go back and look at my projections from a different perspective, it doesn't mean I change them very often but it is always good to hear the other opinions out there and what the impacts might be on the ADP. Keep up the good work.

After 4 years of the NFBC being in existance, it can be a bit difficult to find quality discussion topics. In 4 years a lot of things have already been discussed.

My hopes are to energize the MB by having quality discussion about quality topics. The trick is to present it all in an entertaining format. Hopefully I have done that with the Fireside Chats. I still have more to come.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:02 am

Originally posted by Vander:

BTW nice thread GG. I think this is just the kind of stuff Greg really would like a content panel to do. I agree with at least some of the stuff you've provided. I won't say which stuff. I hope you don't find more true pearls for public display, giving away the good stuff easy for those who haven't done as much homework. Thanks. With me having a REAL year of baseball prep under my belt, the info/research/"pearls" seem to come to me much more quickly than in the past.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:11 am

Originally posted by Baggler:

I know the steals are sexy but I do have a concern and it's Torre. Is he gonna allow his catcher to run as much. I think the yankees ran a LOT under torre's reign. I'm expecting to see more of the same in dodger land. Thoughts?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:20 am

How big of a hit does Martin's value take if he hits 8th in that lineup?

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:22 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

By the way Gordon- I challenged you to reinvent yourself a few weeks ago. IMO you have knocked it out of the park with this. Good thought provoking info in a format where you can tell the truth but still not show your hand too much. Good job- Thank you. I agree...it's always a balance of telling the truth, but not too much of it.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:30 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

How big of a hit does Martin's value take if he hits 8th in that lineup? 8th?!?! Has Torre said or implied that? I don't see ANY way that happens. He'll be 3, 4, or 5.

Dan - if he bats leadoff, will his BA improve 50+ points (sorry john)?

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:34 am

Originally posted by bjoak:

Good article in Baseball Between the Numbers on how the effects catchers have on ERA is negligible. The primary example is 'defensive catcher' Matheny. I'm not saying these exercises are fruitless since the Angels might buy into catcher defense and ERA, but, uh, spending time looking at each of the short seasons from the Angels' catchers is not going to give you an ounce of real information. It's almost impossible to gage how C's handle pitchers. Too many intangibles. The worst I can recall was Todd Hundley. Even in his case you can't be sure it was him, but somebody on those Cub teams was awful as far as pitch calling. Whether it was Hundley, Baylor, or the pitching coach or some combination there of, it was horrible just horrible. No clue how to call a game.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:44 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

How big of a hit does Martin's value take if he hits 8th in that lineup? 8th?!?! Has Torre said or implied that? I don't see ANY way that happens. He'll be 3, 4, or 5.

Dan - if he bats leadoff, will his BA improve 50+ points (sorry john)? [/QUOTE]I think most fantasy managers would have him higher in the lineup. In real baseball though, it could come down to Martin-Nomar or LaRoche hitting 7-8 or Nomar or LaRoche-Martin hitting 7-8, depending on if Torre likes a little speed in the 8 hole. Personally with his OBP I would put Pierre there, but I don't think that will happen.

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:51 am

Bad managers make the team try to conform to doing things "their way".

Good managers take what they have and get the most out of it, emphasizing strengths and masking weaknesses.

Personally, I view Torre as a good manager. Thus, he will utilize Martin's strengths.

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:04 am

well then todd- we will find out immediately if torre is a great,good or average manager by what he does with pierre. pierre has only one strenght as a baseball player- speed from ist to 3rd. his steal rate is awfull. a great manager would bench him and play either and kemp. a good manager might play him half the time and bat him 8th where he belongs. an average or poor manager would hit him second.

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:12 am

well then todd- we will find out immediately if torre is a great,good or average manager by what he does with pierre. pierre has only one strenght as a baseball player- speed from ist to 3rd. his steal rate is awfull. a great manager would bench him and play either and kemp. a good manager might play him half the time and bat him 8th where he belongs. an average or poor manager would hit him second. Agreed, assuming all 3 are still there come March.

Though I suspect if they are, he would have to let it play out as opposed to benching Pierre from the get-go. Over time, take away his PT, giving it to the more deserving kids.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:25 am

Originally posted by ToddZ:

quote: well then todd- we will find out immediately if torre is a great,good or average manager by what he does with pierre. pierre has only one strenght as a baseball player- speed from ist to 3rd. his steal rate is awfull. a great manager would bench him and play either and kemp. a good manager might play him half the time and bat him 8th where he belongs. an average or poor manager would hit him second. Agreed, assuming all 3 are still there come March.

Though I suspect if they are, he would have to let it play out as opposed to benching Pierre from the get-go. Over time, take away his PT, giving it to the more deserving kids. [/QUOTE]How much salary do the Dodgers need to eat to send Pierre packing- to me Martin is perfect to hit 5th. Can drive in some runs and can restart the lineup for guys like Kemp, Kent, and Laroche. To me hitting Loney 3rd makes a lot of sense if you insist upon hitting Pierre 1st or 2nd.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:32 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by ToddZ:

quote: well then todd- we will find out immediately if torre is a great,good or average manager by what he does with pierre. pierre has only one strenght as a baseball player- speed from ist to 3rd. his steal rate is awfull. a great manager would bench him and play either and kemp. a good manager might play him half the time and bat him 8th where he belongs. an average or poor manager would hit him second. Agreed, assuming all 3 are still there come March.

Though I suspect if they are, he would have to let it play out as opposed to benching Pierre from the get-go. Over time, take away his PT, giving it to the more deserving kids. [/QUOTE]How much salary do the Dodgers need to eat to send Pierre packing- to me Martin is perfect to hit 5th. Can drive in some runs and can restart the lineup for guys like Kemp, Kent, and Laroche. To me hitting Loney 3rd makes a lot of sense if you insist upon hitting Pierre 1st or 2nd. [/QUOTE]Loney won't hit third, Son. It would put all three of the Dodgers left handed hitters at the top of the lineup and we all know that MLB Managers don't play that way.

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:35 am

It would take Kemp or Ethier to get Santana. Short of that, I would look to peddle Pierre.

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:20 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

I must say though I have several pals in this event who tell me how Zaleski acts like the 100k is in the bag after the draft and I must say I want to hear it in person.I always spend the 100k before I even get home from the draft. And so does almost everyone for an hour after the drafts looking at all the boards, especially with Greg buying the Coronas! Lighten up Francis! Why draft if you don't think you have a chance? So do you end every draft all down and out?

Like when you whined about picking 15th one year?

Coming to Vegas? Cool, Greg will buy us some Coronas and we can look at the draft boards afterwards. I'll even solicit your opinion! See ya then!

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:22 am

How much salary do the Dodgers need to eat to send Pierre packing- to me Martin is perfect to hit 5th. Can drive in some runs and can restart the lineup for guys like Kemp, Kent, and Laroche. To me hitting Loney 3rd makes a lot of sense if you insist upon hitting Pierre 1st or 2nd.Read a good article recently--I forget where, must have been the Forecaster or the Hardball Times annual--on how teams will keep playing guys just so they don't have to admit a mistake or eat salary. That is the case with Pierre. He should not play over Ethier and never over Kemp. To spend that money on Jones and then turn around and downgrade your outfield every day is just dumb. When he had the OBP a few years ago, it was a different story. I hope someone gets traded because it mucks up the fantasy situation in the outfield there.

Does anyone really still think Santana is going somewhere? Every time someone has said to me, "Where do you think Santana is going?" I've said, "Minnesota." Personally, Detroit's beefing up would have convinced me to sign or move him, but they seem like they'll just keep him at this point even if they can't get a deal done.

Chest, I downgraded you from Ripken to Butterbean. At least you're getting younger.

I don't remember Dan being *that* tall. He comes across as a kind-hearted soul, which may help to explain why I don't remember an intimidating stature. It doesn't hurt his image in my mind that he always gives me his drink tickets. I don't have a problem with him standing next to me, though; it is sitting next to me that I worry about.

Plymouth, no one is taking this seriously. Maybe Zaleski got a little riled up but he can dish it out just as well so he will be okay.

[ January 02, 2008, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: bjoak ]

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:26 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

How big of a hit does Martin's value take if he hits 8th in that lineup? 8th?!?! Has Torre said or implied that? I don't see ANY way that happens. He'll be 3, 4, or 5.

Dan - if he bats leadoff, will his BA improve 50+ points (sorry john)? [/QUOTE]I think there is Zero chance that Martin bats 8th in the Dodgers lineup.

Right now the LA writers and MLB writer who covers the team have Martin hitting 2nd which would be a good spot for him.

Certainly a trade for the upgrade they need at 3B or a trade of Pierre (could be one and the same as in the rumored Pierre+$ for Crede White Sox deal)might change players and the order - we ARE a long way from Opening Day, but I doubt he is lower than sixth or higher than second.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:12 am

Originally posted by Captain Hook:

I think there is Zero chance that Martin bats 8th in the Dodgers lineup.

I knew Dan had some misinformation in him!

Plymouth · Post by **Plymouth** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:33 am

Originally posted by Captain Hook:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

How big of a hit does Martin's value take if he hits 8th in that lineup? 8th?!?! Has Torre said or implied that? I don't see ANY way that happens. He'll be 3, 4, or 5.

Dan - if he bats lead-off, will his BA improve 50+ points (sorry john)? [/QUOTE]I think there is Zero chance that Martin bats 8th in the Dodgers lineup.

Right now the LA writers and MLB writer who covers the team have Martin hitting 2nd which would be a good spot for him.

Certainly a trade for the upgrade they need at 3B or a trade of Pierre (could be one and the same as in the rumored Pierre+$ for Crede White Sox deal)might change players and the order - we ARE a long way from Opening Day, but I doubt he is lower than sixth or higher than second. [/QUOTE]I guess I had not heard about the Pierre for Crede possible deal. That deal would make so much sense and help both teams that it probably won't happen. With Jones now in CF that makes it even tougher to get OF at bats for Kemp and Eithier if Pierre stays. I just can't see Torre keeping a poor stick like Pierre in his line-up.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:37 pm

Perry, no offence, but writers opinions, even if from the same area, are still just another man's opinion. I don't think Torre has talked to anyone about personnel, especially considering that he is recovering from surgery.

Mark, if bringing up the possibility is misinformation, then guilty as charged.

A Pierre-Crede trade doesen't make much sense to me. LaRoche will be a better ballplayer than Crede. The Dodgers sorely lack a left handed power hitter. Loney, Furcal, and Ethier will not strike fear in pitchers hearts.