Mets get Santana for a bag of beans

Top Dawg · Post by **Top Dawg** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 pm

Not sure Minn got more than a bag of magic beans for the best pitcher in baseball. Seems like they wanted soooooo much more from the Yanks and Sox.

Just my opinion.

Pete

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:54 pm

As a Yankees fan, this is great news. Yanks get to keep their young trio of Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain intact -- they'll need all of them to replace Mussina, Pettitte, etc.

Mets rotation is scary good now.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:42 pm

Originally posted by Top Dawg:

Not sure Minn got more than a bag of magic beans for the best pitcher in baseball. Seems like they wanted soooooo much more from the Yanks and Sox.

Just my opinion.

Pete Minnesota has got to be kicking themselves. Instead of taking advantage of Steinbrenner in one of his (many) weaker moments and agreeing to Hughes, Cabrera, and more prospects, they get greedy and play them against Boston giving leveler minds some time to talk to Steinbrenner.

I'm sure Minnesota will sell this as a bonanza of future talent to their fans, but most likely they left a better package on the table.

Nevadaman · Post by **Nevadaman** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:07 pm

A bag of beans would be better than what they got. The Mets have exactly one real prospect (Martinez) and he wasn't included in the deal! Highway freakin' robbery! Twins GM now on par with Dusty Baker for baseball IQ.

CREATiVESPORTS-Marc · Post by **CREATiVESPORTS-Marc** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:30 pm

There is no arguing how good Santana is right now and that his acquisition puts the Mets right up with the favorites for the World Series. However, the Twins are not playing for now. They are developing a team to make a run from the low-budget slot in 3-5 years. Maybe the Yankees offer was better. Maybe the Red Sox offer was better. My opinion is that in 10 years, people will look back on this trade from the Twins perspective and say "They got all these players and all they had to give up was Santana in the last year of his contract - what a steal."

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:51 pm

Originally posted by CREATiVESPORTS-Marc:

There is no arguing how good Santana is right now and that his acquisition puts the Mets right up with the favorites for the World Series. However, the Twins are not playing for now. They are developing a team to make a run from the low-budget slot in 3-5 years. Maybe the Yankees offer was better. Maybe the Red Sox offer was better. My opinion is that in 10 years, people will look back on this trade from the Twins perspective and say "They got all these players and all they had to give up was Santana in the last year of his contract - what a steal." wow- what are you smoking cuz I want some. Kevin Mulvey and Phillip Humber are at best Baker and Slowey. The Twins may set a record for most 4th starter types. Carlos Gomez is intriguing and the 4th prospect has a great arm but come on...

DiamondKing · Post by **DiamondKing** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:06 pm

Why deal now?Wait 'till june/july and write a much more talent laden ticket.The Mets had to do something at least hold out for that teams best prospect.

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:58 pm

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by CREATiVESPORTS-Marc:

There is no arguing how good Santana is right now and that his acquisition puts the Mets right up with the favorites for the World Series. However, the Twins are not playing for now. They are developing a team to make a run from the low-budget slot in 3-5 years. Maybe the Yankees offer was better. Maybe the Red Sox offer was better. My opinion is that in 10 years, people will look back on this trade from the Twins perspective and say "They got all these players and all they had to give up was Santana in the last year of his contract - what a steal." wow- what are you smoking cuz I want some. Kevin Mulvey and Phillip Humber are at best Baker and Slowey. The Twins may set a record for most 4th starter types. Carlos Gomez is intriguing and the 4th prospect has a great arm but come on... [/QUOTE]most likely right, but how highly rated were Nathan, Liriano and Bosner when they were traded for A.J.?

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:47 am

So anyone want to start a pool on how long it takes the Twinkies to trade Nathan? I wonder what the housing markets in Arizona and Cleveland look like?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:07 am

Originally posted by Edwards Kings:

So anyone want to start a pool on how long it takes the Twinkies to trade Nathan? I wonder what the housing markets in Arizona and Cleveland look like? I'd bet against both Cleveland and Arizona.

Cleveland because the Twins would not want to see Nathan within its own division for the next five years.

Arizona because the Haren deal has already taken most of their top prospects.

I'm guessing that the last place Minnesota wants to be after Santana is at the trading table. Nathan would be a great chip to have for an in season trade. Once Rivera, Saito, or Gagne breaks down and with those teams in a pennant chase the Twins can get more than fair value for Nathan.

[ January 30, 2008, 07:08 AM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:40 am

I don't think the Twins did all that well either. I think they would've done better dealing with either the Yankees or Red Sox.

With regard to the Mets, if Pedro Martinez is healthy, they are going to have one of the most dominant 1-2 punches we've seen at the top of a starting rotation in some time. That's a potentially lethal duo.

Top Dawg · Post by **Top Dawg** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:20 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:

I don't think the Twins did all that well either. I think they would've done better dealing with either the Yankees or Red Sox.

With regard to the Mets, if Pedro Martinez is healthy, they are going to have one of the most dominant 1-2 punches we've seen at the top of a starting rotation in some time. That's a potentially lethal duo. Big "IF" with Pedro's health. I would bet against a 200+ inning season. But... IF he is, give them their Series tickets now. Nobody in the NL will come close to them IF Pedro is healthy.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:29 am

The Mets did certainly make out well. With Santana at the top of the rotation, in his prime, eating all those innings and Oliver Perez available as an innings eater (he is more of course) as well, then Maine, Martinez, and Hernandez can be handled differently. 200+ IP is a stretch for Martinez and Hernandez and probably not healthy for Maine, but to keep the three in the 150 to 180 IP range is more workable now. You could even toss Pelfry or Sosa in there for a couple of spot starts to manage the strategy.

Looks like I better lock in my ATL/NYM tickets now!

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:29 am

Just a Dwight Gooden bump here...

At this exact point in Gooden's career(comparing to Santana), Gooden had 15 more wins at this time. This is to show 1-How great Doc Gooden really was, and 2-What a waste of a gifted life he took for granted.

Okay, I'll go back to the NFFC.

Marc

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:05 am

Originally posted by Diesel:

Just a Dwight Gooden bump here...

At this exact point in Gooden's career(comparing to Santana), Gooden had 15 more wins at this time. This is to show 1-How great Doc Gooden really was, and 2-What a waste of a gifted life he took for granted.

Okay, I'll go back to the NFFC.

Marc And I still think Shawon Dunston had a better arm.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:34 am

Originally posted by Diesel:

Just a Dwight Gooden bump here...

At this exact point in Gooden's career(comparing to Santana), Gooden had 15 more wins at this time. This is to show 1-How great Doc Gooden really was, and 2-What a waste of a gifted life he took for granted.

Okay, I'll go back to the NFFC.

Marc Diesel, To be serious, its not that big of an achievement. Gooden was rushed up after one spectacular year in the minors. The Twins didn't even make Santana a full time starter till after seven years in the organization.

Baseball and probably life-wise, Santana had the better upbringing.

Plymouth · Post by **Plymouth** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:38 pm

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

quote:Originally posted by Diesel:

Just a Dwight Gooden bump here...

At this exact point in Gooden's career(comparing to Santana), Gooden had 15 more wins at this time. This is to show 1-How great Doc Gooden really was, and 2-What a waste of a gifted life he took for granted.

Okay, I'll go back to the NFFC.

Marc Diesel, To be serious, its not that big of an achievement. Gooden was rushed up after one spectacular year in the minors. The Twins didn't even make Santana a full time starter till after seven years in the organization.

Baseball and probably life-wise, Santana had the better upbringing. [/QUOTE]Santana was actually signed by Houston and was then picked by Florida in the Rule 5 draft in 1999 and then Minnesota and Florida swapped their Rule 5 picks with Florida getting Jared Camp and the Twins getting Johan. Johan debuted with the Twins in 2000. He had a handful of starts in 2000 and 2001 then was in the teens in starts in 2002 and 2003. In 2004 he became a full time starter for Minnesota and the rest is history. This is pretty typical for how the Twins break in their pitchers in the majors, they start out in the bullpen and work their way into the starting rotation.

[ January 30, 2008, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: Plymouth ]

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:58 am

Originally posted by Plymouth:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

quote:Originally posted by Diesel:

Just a Dwight Gooden bump here...

At this exact point in Gooden's career(comparing to Santana), Gooden had 15 more wins at this time. This is to show 1-How great Doc Gooden really was, and 2-What a waste of a gifted life he took for granted.

Okay, I'll go back to the NFFC.

Marc Diesel, To be serious, its not that big of an achievement. Gooden was rushed up after one spectacular year in the minors. The Twins didn't even make Santana a full time starter till after seven years in the organization.

Baseball and probably life-wise, Santana had the better upbringing. [/QUOTE]Santana was actually signed by Houston and was then picked by Florida in the Rule 5 draft in 1999 and then Minnesota and Florida swapped their Rule 5 picks with Florida getting Jared Camp and the Twins getting Johan. Johan debuted with the Twins in 2000. He had a handful of starts in 2000 and 2001 then was in the teens in starts in 2002 and 2003. In 2004 he became a full time starter for Minnesota and the rest is history. This is pretty typical for how the Twins break in their pitchers in the majors, they start out in the bullpen and work their way into the starting rotation. [/QUOTE]I think you hit the nail on the head. And Doc's manager early was the wiz Davey Johnson. I will never forget Johnson leaving Doc on the mound for 140+ pitches early in his career...in April...in NY...temperature just above freezing.

Doc obviously isn't the strongest mental being to begin with and when his health went (with Davey's help), he broke apart.

Dub · Post by **Dub** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:41 pm

Stating the obvious, but the Mets now own 3 first round fantasy picks and 4 out of the first 20 picks. Thats a very high percentage. The Phillies, with three, I believe, are the only other team to have more than one. That gives the NLE 7 out of 20.

Balance of power shifting?

[ February 01, 2008, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: Dub ]

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:52 pm

Originally posted by Dub:

Stating the obvious, but the Mets now own 3 first round fantasy picks and 4 out of the first 20 picks. Thats a very high percentage. The Phillies, with three, I believe, are the only other team to have more than one. That gives the NLE 7 out of 20.Actually 9 out of 20 -- you forgot about Hanley Ramirez and Mark Teixeira

Dub · Post by **Dub** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:10 pm

Thanks.

And nobody would be shocked if all 3 first round Met picks went top 10 ( it won't happen here) ..but it can.

Plymouth · Post by **Plymouth** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:03 pm

Originally posted by Dub:

Stating the obvious, but the Mets now own 3 first round fantasy picks and 4 out of the first 20 picks. Thats a very high percentage. The Phillies, with three, I believe, are the only other team to have more than one. That gives the NLE 7 out of 20.

Balance of power shifting? I will believe it when I see the NL east win something.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:38 am

Originally posted by Dub:

Stating the obvious, but the Mets now own 3 first round fantasy picks and 4 out of the first 20 picks. Thats a very high percentage. The Phillies, with three, I believe, are the only other team to have more than one. That gives the NLE 7 out of 20.

Balance of power shifting? Could be. The Mets (stacked), the Phillies (stacked), the Braves (best 162 game manager in baseball) beat the pudding out of themselves, one winning the division, the others left out because their records are not as good as the #2 team in the Central (Cubbies or Brewcrew), then the eventual NLE winner (insert choice here) roller coaster through the playoffs to meet the Tigers in the Series. Could be a fun year.

Me, I am just excited to watch the positional battle at 3B in Florida (Castillo vs McPherson). Should be Pay-per-View!

[ February 02, 2008, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: Edwards Kings ]