Yes or No?

GOD Loves You · Post by **GOD Loves You** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:47 am

Per CRAZY's suggestion, I drafted my entire offense before selecting a single pitcher.

Was I able to compensate the wait for pitching....and did I draft a good enough offense with this strategy....Yes or No??

BTW, Pujols went #16, paired with Johan at #15.

C Russell Martin

C Justin Towles

1B Prince Fielder

1B Mike Jacobs

2B Ian Kinsler

2B Rickie Weeks

2B Alexei Ramirez

SS Jhonny Peralta

SS Felipe Lopez

3B Edwin Encarnacion

3B Kevin Kouzmanoff

3B Evan Longoria

OF Chris Young

OF Nick Swisher

OF Jacoby Ellsbury

OF Jeremy Hermida

OF Josh Fields

OF Jonny Gomes

SP Gil Meche

SP Micah Owings

SP Chris Capuano

SP Aaron Laffey

SP Jason Bergmann

SP Ian Kennedy

SP Johnny Cueto

SP Dana Eveland

RP Jonathan Broxton

RP Jeremy Accardo

RP Heath Bell

RP Pat Neshek

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:54 am

Originally posted by GOD Loves You:

Per CRAZY's suggestion, I drafted my entire offense before selecting a single pitcher.

Was I able to compensate the wait for pitching....and did I draft a good enough offense with this strategy....Yes or No??

BTW, Pujols went #16, paired with Johan at #15.

C Russell Martin

C Justin Towles

1B Prince Fielder

1B Mike Jacobs

2B Ian Kinsler

2B Rickie Weeks

2B Alexei Ramirez

SS Jhonny Peralta

SS Felipe Lopez

3B Edwin Encarnacion

3B Kevin Kouzmanoff

3B Evan Longoria

OF Chris Young

OF Nick Swisher

OF Jacoby Ellsbury

OF Jeremy Hermida

OF Josh Fields

OF Jonny Gomes

SP Gil Meche

SP Micah Owings

SP Chris Capuano

SP Aaron Laffey

SP Jason Bergmann

SP Ian Kennedy

SP Johnny Cueto

SP Dana Eveland

RP Jonathan Broxton

RP Jeremy Accardo

RP Heath Bell

RP Pat Neshek I'm not going to say if it worked or not, all's I'm going to say is you've got balls and when you say you're going to do something you do it. I've got respect for you for that.

Wish you left Weeks for me in the 6th. He might go in the 2nd round or 3rd round next year if everything falls right.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:54 am

I don't see it working, Patrick. Sorry.

ALL-IN JD · Post by **ALL-IN JD** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:56 am

Absolutely not, sorry.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:58 am

Like the Bruce Willis movie... Unfixable.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:17 am

not even close

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:29 am

You've got a lot of work to do, Patrick.

Even with 14 straight picks on offense, you have overemphasized speed and underemphasized Avg counteracting the big advantage of drafting offense first. Sometimes just a dash of Lance's "blah" team is a lot better than a roster full of sexy picks. Just my take.

I won't go into the pitching, though this is the second roster I've seen this morning where the relievers may out-k the starters!

You're doing the Main this year, right?

Hard Heads · Post by **Hard Heads** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:57 am

For going all hitting to start I agree the hitting stats aren't balanced enough or even that strong for that matter. Not all of those hitters should even go before round 18 let alone taking them in the 1st 14 rounds. Just my opinion at least.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:28 am

Originally posted by GOD Loves You:

Per CRAZY's suggestion, I drafted my entire offense before selecting a single pitcher.

Was I able to compensate the wait for pitching....and did I draft a good enough offense with this strategy....Yes or No??

BTW, Pujols went #16, paired with Johan at #15.

C Russell Martin

C Justin Towles

1B Prince Fielder

1B Mike Jacobs

2B Ian Kinsler

2B Rickie Weeks

2B Alexei Ramirez

SS Jhonny Peralta

SS Felipe Lopez

3B Edwin Encarnacion

3B Kevin Kouzmanoff

3B Evan Longoria

OF Chris Young

OF Nick Swisher

OF Jacoby Ellsbury

OF Jeremy Hermida

OF Josh Fields

OF Jonny Gomes

SP Gil Meche

SP Micah Owings

SP Chris Capuano

SP Aaron Laffey

SP Jason Bergmann

SP Ian Kennedy

SP Johnny Cueto

SP Dana Eveland

RP Jonathan Broxton

RP Jeremy Accardo

RP Heath Bell

RP Pat Neshek ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Man, I can't critique your draft. Here's mine.

Final Roster

Pos Name Team Pick

C Joe Mauer MIN R4 P7 Comment

C Ramon Hernandez BAL R14 P7 Comment

1B Richie Sexson SEA R17 P9 Comment

1B Nick Johnson WAS R25 P9 Comment

2B Dan Uggla FLA R10 P7 Comment

2B Ray Durham SF R21 P9 Comment

SS Bobby Crosby OAK R20 P7 Comment

3B Garrett Atkins COL R5 P9 Comment

3B Andy LaRoche LA R23 P9 Comment

3B Ian Stewart COL R27 P9 Comment

3B Brandon Wood ANA R30 P7 Comment

OF Alfonso Soriano CHC R1 P9 Comment

OF Magglio Ordonez DET R3 P9 Comment

OF Delmon Young MIN R8 P7 Comment

OF Kosuke Fukudome CHC R11 P9 Comment

OF Cameron Maybin FLA R16 P7 Comment

OF Carlos Gomez MIN R19 P9 Comment

DH Gary Sheffield DET R6 P7 Comment

SP Jake Peavy SD R2 P7 Comment

SP Pedro Martinez NYM R9 P9 Comment

SP Jeremy Bonderman DET R12 P7 Comment

SP Randy Johnson ARI R13 P9 Comment

SP Kevin Slowey MIN R18 P7 Comment

SP Ervin Santana ANA R22 P7 Comment

SP Ubaldo Jimenez COL R24 P7 Comment

SP John Patterson WAS R26 P7 Comment

RP Takashi Saito LA R7 P9 Comment

RP George Sherrill BAL R15 P9 Comment

RP Clayton Kershaw LA R28 P7 Comment

RP Dan Wheeler TB R29 P9 Comment

I made the same mistakes I made last year. Drafted subpar 2nd closer without a 3rd closer as a handicap and missed out on stolen bases a little. Carlos Gomez could be my savior if he works out, but that's questionable. I think I have a solid pitching staff providing a find another quality arm during the year.

I felt like I could afford to take a few risks with starting pitching ie Bonderman, R.J., Pedro after taking Peavy.

One good thing I can take away from the draft compared to last year's is a better balance between pitching and hitting. Last year it was all pitching with a horrible offense. I think Maggs in the 3rd is great value, along with Mauer in the 4th, Atkins in the 5th (can't believe he was there) 6th round I liked Rickie Weeks after my Victorino pick got yanked in the 4th (I liked him in the 5th) I had to settle for Sheffield in the 6th who I love this year, plenty of rbi's opps with Granderson, Polanco, Cabrera, Magglio hitting in front of him. Saito in the 7th, WOW. Couldn't pass that up. Delmon in the 8th, I think he takes a big step up in power this year with 20+ stolen bases. Would have taken Alex Gordon if he was there.

The Fukudome pick in the 11th was a brain freeze. I would have been better off taking a starter or closer there. I was on the phone with my friend (not a good idea while picking) Even Justin Upton later looks better than Fukudome. I think Fuckudome can still be pretty good, we'll see. Risky though.

I have two more satellites to correct any problems I had in this one. All and all, I think I did well.

Doesn't mean I don't think I can compete in this one.

ALL-IN JD · Post by **ALL-IN JD** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:00 am

Two things that stand out Crazy. I agree about taking gambles and risks but gambling after just one pitcher is tough. You need to of those three to be solid. Also, you are going be chasing BA really, really. Hernandez, Uggla, Sexson, Crosby and Maybin are going put you behind the 8-ball, in my humble opinion.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:17 am

Originally posted by fireballs:

Two things that stand out Crazy. I agree about taking gambles and risks but gambling after just one pitcher is tough. You need to of those three to be solid. Also, you are going be chasing BA really, really. Hernandez, Uggla, Sexson, Crosby and Maybin are going put you behind the 8-ball, in my humble opinion. I can't disagree with you. I think you make great points. I agree with your batting average assessment but it might not be quite as bad as you think. Getting .320+ from Atkins, Mauer, Maggs and maybe .300+ from Delmon, Fukudome should offset it. I really like my catcher combination. I expect Ramon Hernandez getting back to .280-20-90 level combined with Mauer almost unlimited potential. My infield will hurt my average but will be big in homers/rbi's/runs. My outfield is great. I've got real potential with Andy Laroche at a corner spot (maybe not right away) and Brandon Wood hopefully taking over the Angel's shortstop job in the near future (maybe early season). Kershaw I feel good about. Only concern is he takes up a bench spot for much of the season. Nick Johnson might turn out to be better than Sexson because of batting average, so I have options.

Not a perfect draft by any means. But I do agree with you that I should have 2 or 3 "solid" pitchers I can count on. Pedro and Randy should be around 25+ starts, and that's what I'm hoping for, along with a couple key pitcher acquisitions via in-season management.

Bonderman is risky in terms of health. If he's healthy, we might see a big breakout. 9-1 with 3.50 e.r.a. in 1st half last year. Then the injuries hit him. Now 26 years old, with extra work in the offseason strengthening that shoulder, we might see a breakout of 18 wins, 3.80 e.r.a. - 190 K's. His potential is even greater but he has to make it through a whole season before we start projecting true dominance.

I definitely didn't take the safe route, which is exactly what I wanted to do. Hope everything falls right.

ALL-IN JD · Post by **ALL-IN JD** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:21 am

I was in the same draft as you. Im in no position to talk about gambling as I drafted Liriano, Harden, Gagne, BJ Ryan and Wood!! Talk about a potential recipe for disaster!

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:45 am

Crazy – I’ll give you an honest spin here…

You made some really nice picks (Mags, Atkins, Young) in the early part of your draft, but you have FAR too many question marks on your pitching staff and bench. I think you went with so many “potential upside” guys that your ship is now “upside down”. Again, good start, but bad draft management.

Joe Sambito · Post by **Joe Sambito** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:08 am

Crazy,

Do yourself a favor and PM Lance (sportsbettingman). Lance tried a similar strategy in 2005, risk at almost every pick from the 8th round on. It actually became comical at the draft table.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:14 am

Atkins won't be able to save that uggla-y infield. The Avg of the infield should be around .250, add Soriano, Maybin, and Gomez and it's a no hoper in that category. I did like Atkins in the 5th, great value.

I've never understood the 'I have one of the best pitchers, now I can gamble' theory. In most cases it offsets the value of your first or second pick. Your manlove for the Unit (pause) has shown through with his 13th round selection.

A lot of sexy (not you Richie) picks, but not a good roster, in my opinion.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:22 am

Crazy,

I think it is safe to label you as a guy with some knowledge who has some problems relating that knowledge to the draft table at this point. Good thing for you is that is a skill that can be learned.

I agree with GG- really solid performance rounds 2-8. I think you could have done better than Soriano at 9 b/c the chances of him stealing 30 are slim.

After that things got a little rough for you- I like Unit and Pedro to outperform their draft slots this year. I thought you reached for both of them a little bit and you simply cannot afford to roster both of them as part of your top 4 starters.

The other thing I would say is when you have the solid offensive core you had after 8 rounds and no speed you have to make sure and secure a Judy. It sucks to reach for a Taveras or Bourn but you have to get them and you did a good enough job early to absorb them power wise. At worst nab Owens, Roberts, or Dusty Baker's CF Kenny Lofton late.

My last thought is newbies in this contest underestimate the beating that their batting avg will take later in the draft. You did the right thing by protecting avg early, but you gave it back in surplus later and then the last few offensive players killed you. Joe Mauer gets wiped out avg wise the minute you say the word Dan Uggla fine you can survive that you just cannot say the words Sexson a few rounds later or draft young studs like Maybin and Gomez who if they do well will still probably struggle in avg.

Bottom line in my opinion is you are getting closer quickly. IMO that team would be dead money on March 15th in Vegas, however I think you will produce a team before these satellites are over that would be a contender in sin city.

Good luck!

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:35 am

Originally posted by Joe Sambito:

Crazy,

Do yourself a favor and PM Lance (sportsbettingman). Lance tried a similar strategy in 2005, risk at almost every pick from the 8th round on. It actually became comical at the draft table. I agree, Sir Stevieland.

I'm having trouble finding the NFBC archived leagues earlier than 2006.

Do you still have access to that draft? Any chance to PM me a link?

~Lance

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:36 am

GLY, I think that that is about the best pitching staff you could assemble after going all offense and it could finish in the middle. Unfortunately, the all offense approach only got you an offense that won't be much better. (How do you end up with Mike Jacobs in that situation??)

Joe Sambito · Post by **Joe Sambito** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:04 am

Lance,

I got nothing in my archives on that draft. I was going from recall, although I think I was fairly accurate...

eddiejag · Post by **eddiejag** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:10 pm

Crazy i agree with the panel a lot of risk everywhere.I agree with you about Hernandez which gives you a great catcher combo.I ALSO LIKE some of your later picks like Slowley,LaRoche , and Santana.You might get lucky with Sherrill, might be their best in the bullpen.You never know , Pedro, Unit, AND Bonderman come thru.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:13 pm

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

Atkins won't be able to save that uggla-y infield. The Avg of the infield should be around .250, add Soriano, Maybin, and Gomez and it's a no hoper in that category. I did like Atkins in the 5th, great value.

I've never understood the 'I have one of the best pitchers, now I can gamble' theory. In most cases it offsets the value of your first or second pick. Your manlove for the Unit (pause) has shown through with his 13th round selection.

A lot of sexy (not you Richie) picks, but not a good roster, in my opinion. Well, you have a right to your opinion.

I am admittedly much better at in-season management than I am at drafting. So, hopefully I can fill some holes. The Maybin/Gomez picks were because I needed stolen bases and it was late. I do have a very solid outfield. I like Sexson to bounce back to 2005-2006 levels and Uggla is probably closer to a .265 hitter than a .245.

There is no way you can go through a draft like this and not have some sort of weakness. I think Shawn Childs has eluded to this.

I'm sure I could have drafted Buchholz or Hughes or McGowan in the spots I drafted Pedro and Randy but I'm fairly sure that I've got a better chance with these pitchers. Only the season will tell. I get 25+ starts out of Pedro, Randy, Bonderman to go along with Peavy and Saito/Sherrill offering nice peripherals/saves and we're looking at a top 3 pitching staff.

Throw that in with a little emphasis on hitters with big upside/bounceback candidates and it could be my year.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:14 pm

Do you guys think I have a bottom five team?

Don't hold back. I don't mind criticism.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:17 pm

Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

Do you guys think I have a bottom five team?

Don't hold back. I don't mind criticism. it's not a money team, and that's all that should be important to you.

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:30 pm

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

Crazy,

I think it is safe to label you as a guy with some knowledge who has some problems relating that knowledge to the draft table at this point. Good thing for you is that is a skill that can be learned.

I agree with GG- really solid performance rounds 2-8. I think you could have done better than Soriano at 9 b/c the chances of him stealing 30 are slim.

After that things got a little rough for you- I like Unit and Pedro to outperform their draft slots this year. I thought you reached for both of them a little bit and you simply cannot afford to roster both of them as part of your top 4 starters.

The other thing I would say is when you have the solid offensive core you had after 8 rounds and no speed you have to make sure and secure a Judy. It sucks to reach for a Taveras or Bourn but you have to get them and you did a good enough job early to absorb them power wise. At worst nab Owens, Roberts, or Dusty Baker's CF Kenny Lofton late.

My last thought is newbies in this contest underestimate the beating that their batting avg will take later in the draft. You did the right thing by protecting avg early, but you gave it back in surplus later and then the last few offensive players killed you. Joe Mauer gets wiped out avg wise the minute you say the word Dan Uggla fine you can survive that you just cannot say the words Sexson a few rounds later or draft young studs like Maybin and Gomez who if they do well will still probably struggle in avg.

Bottom line in my opinion is you are getting closer quickly. IMO that team would be dead money on March 15th in Vegas, however I think you will produce a team before these satellites are over that would be a contender in sin city.

Good luck! Glad to see we can all get along.

Personally, I agree with pretty much all of Chest's points. I have to add that thinking you will get 25+ starts from Randy is "Crazy".

Good luck

Spy

Less than Dave · Post by **Less than Dave** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:49 am

Hey Crazy, just here to weigh-in also...

First of all, I have a question: why did you even draft Wheeler, Durham, and Crosby? Those guys are going to have 0 or negative value and shouldn't be drafted. Those are guys you see sitting on the waiver wire the whole year.

Next is the problem of youth. LaRoche, Maybin, Gomez, Stewart, Wood, Kershaw. Granted, these were late picks, but far too many guys who have less than 50 games under their belt at the MLB level. Maybin and Gomez are too young and raw and will destroy your AVG. Stewart isn't likely to win a starting job (Jayson Nix and Marcus Giles are ahead of him), nor is Wood (Aybar/Izturis). LaRoche and Kershaw are probably your best bets for making a positive impact, although Maybin and Gomez will steal you some bases (while sucking in other cats).

Then, you drafted several guys with injury concerns. Usually when there are several older/injury-prone high risk/reward pitchers you draft 1 of them.. you drafted both Unit AND Pedro.... then topped it off with John Patterson. You're going to spend more time on the waiver wire than Gekko spends videoing himself. And that's just not healthy.

Likewise on offense, I don't have a problem with the Sexson OR the Nick Johnson pick as long as you follow up one with a solid back up plan, but instead you took 2 risky picks on top of each other. You also took Maggs and Sheffield, both of whom are injury risks. Even Joe Mauer is a guy who has lots of injury concerns. That's your problem, you only see the reward without looking at the risk as well. It's fine to draft a couple of these guys (maybe 3 or so), but not like 1/3 of your team. By the end of the season you likely won't even recognize your team!

Effectively you wasted the Peavy pick by surrounding him with risky, unproven, and unskilled pitchers. Bonderman has never had an ERA south of 4, and Slowey, Ubaldo, and Ervin at best are #3 starters.

Here's some things I do like: I love the 2 good catchers. That will give you a boost. I love the Sheffield pick. If he's healthy, and he should be, he will far outperform his ADP. I also love the Delmon Young pick. He could break out this year and put up David Wright-ish numbers. The Atkins pick was also great.. might help offset your terrible average... a little. Unfortunately that infield is God-awful.

Good luck with it man, I sincerely wish you the best.. you're a good guy and you're always trying to learn and THAT is what will make you a good fantasy player in the future. Now you know. And knowing is half the battle...

(I'll let someone else finish off that quote..)