$$UPGRADE Brian_Roberts$$

[Gordon Gekko]

Sources confirmed Thursday that the Cubs have a four-player offer for Roberts on the table that includes the addition of hard-throwing pitching prospect Jose Ceda. Infielder Ronny Cedeno and pitchers Sean Gallagher and Donnie Veal also are in the package.



Remember the Cubbies moved Soriano out of the leadoff role now, to get him accustomed to the 2 slot NOW rather than the last couple of days of camp. Roberts WILL be on the Cubbies come opening day. His value is going through the roof now. Pinella loves to run, as evident in TB. Roberts is a good bet for mid to upper 40's with 120 runs, double digit hr, and a .290 BA.



i'm honestly considering him for my second round pick, esp if I get a non-steal guy in round 1 (poodles or santana).



Obviously this is a HUGE downgrade for Markakis



[ March 14, 2008, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

[Crazy Like a Fox]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Sources confirmed Thursday that the Cubs have a four-player offer for Roberts on the table that includes the addition of hard-throwing pitching prospect Jose Ceda. Infielder Ronny Cedeno and pitchers Sean Gallagher and Donnie Veal also are in the package.



Remember the Cubbies moved Soriano out of the leadoff role now, to get him accustomed to the 2 slot NOW rather than the last couple of days of camp. Roberts WILL be on the Cubbies come opening day. His value is going through the roof now. Pinella loves to run, as evident in TB. Roberts is a good bet for mid to upper 40's with 120 runs, double digit hr, and a .290 BA.



i'm honestly considering him for my second round pick, esp if I get a non-steal guy in round 1 (poodles or santana).



Obviously this is a HUGE downgrade for Markakis First time in a long time we agree.



Roberts is sitting in what is a very nice lineup. He will either hit leadoff or #2. I know they have started slotting Soriano at #2 for now, but he is clearly the catalyst for that team and he hits great out of the leadoff spot and horrible out of any other spot. I personally would put Roberts at leadoff and don't look back.



The Cubs really have a chance to make some noise. Dominant offense, very good top 3 in rotation, solid middle relief and potentially very good closer (hopefully Marmol gets job but not sure) They will now have a poor man's Detroit offense with Roberts, Soriano, Fukudome, Lee, Ramirez, Soto.



Piniella has to be very happy right now.



I think this move might put the Cubbies over the top and be the favorites in the National League. We'll see.



I think it hurts Markakis although I think he takes another step forward in development. So Markakis should make a solid if not spectacular 3rd round pick.

[Gordon Gekko]

Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

First time in a long time we agree.



Roberts is sitting in what is a very nice lineup. He will either hit leadoff or #2. I know they have started slotting Soriano at #2 for now, but he is clearly the catalyst for that team and he hits great out of the leadoff spot and horrible out of any other spot. I personally would put Roberts at leadoff and don't look back.

there is ZERO chance soriano goes back to leadoff. it will be roberts (or theroit if no roberts).

[billywaz]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

First time in a long time we agree.



Roberts is sitting in what is a very nice lineup. He will either hit leadoff or #2. I know they have started slotting Soriano at #2 for now, but he is clearly the catalyst for that team and he hits great out of the leadoff spot and horrible out of any other spot. I personally would put Roberts at leadoff and don't look back.

there is ZERO chance soriano goes back to leadoff. it will be roberts (or theroit if no roberts). [/QUOTE]I agree that Soriano won't go back to leadoff. If Roberts is there, he is a no-brainer, and if Theriot can have a respectable OBP, then all of Soriano's HR's now turn into 2 run shots!



SB's for Soriano are obviously going to take a hit.

[Crazy Like a Fox]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

First time in a long time we agree.



Roberts is sitting in what is a very nice lineup. He will either hit leadoff or #2. I know they have started slotting Soriano at #2 for now, but he is clearly the catalyst for that team and he hits great out of the leadoff spot and horrible out of any other spot. I personally would put Roberts at leadoff and don't look back.

there is ZERO chance soriano goes back to leadoff. it will be roberts (or theroit if no roberts). [/QUOTE]I think they have already made up their mind about atleast going into the season with Soriano at #2, but that's strictly to save his legs, and ultimately just want him to keep him completely healthy. Do you really think Soriano (without Roberts) would be hitting #2 this year if not for Piniella worrying about his legs?



Piniella has said in the past, he has "no problem having Soriano bat leadoff" and Alfonso clearly hits MUCH better in the leadoff spot than any other.



I think saying he has "ZERO" chance at batting leadoff is too aggressive. He has batted 30-35 points higher in the leadoff spot compared to other spots in lineup. I think at some point during the year (especially if he struggles at #2) we'll see him hitting leadoff. Time will tell.



I do agree, that Roberts is the smart choice at leadoff with his speed and solid on-base percentage. Either way, they'll score many runs.

[Crazy Like a Fox]

Originally posted by billywaz:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

First time in a long time we agree.



Roberts is sitting in what is a very nice lineup. He will either hit leadoff or #2. I know they have started slotting Soriano at #2 for now, but he is clearly the catalyst for that team and he hits great out of the leadoff spot and horrible out of any other spot. I personally would put Roberts at leadoff and don't look back.

there is ZERO chance soriano goes back to leadoff. it will be roberts (or theroit if no roberts). [/QUOTE]I agree that Soriano won't go back to leadoff. If Roberts is there, he is a no-brainer, and if Theriot can have a respectable OBP, then all of Soriano's HR's now turn into 2 run shots!



SB's for Soriano are obviously going to take a hit. [/QUOTE]Agreed. Turns out I made a mistake taking Soriano over Cabrera. (Doughboys, you were right)



40/40 is probably out of the question now. How about this, .280-45-110-120 runs-25 stolen bases? Aggressive projection I know, but not as good as Cabrera's .330-30-135-115 runs-10 stolen bases.

[Dub]

Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:



Cabrera's .330-30-135-115 runs-10 stolen bases. That is aggressive- Miggy has 17 life time SB's. Been caught 11 times.

[RedRum]

Hitting Soriano 2 is an even worse spot for him than lead-off.. I happen to think Sori is a cleanup hitter, he's a natural home run hitter.. The 2 hitter should not strikeout much and be able to put the bat on the ball at all costs and be a player that is willing to sacrifice ... I dont know, i mean call me crazy but i think the Cubs are idiots for putting him there.. Yes his RBI totals will increase having Roberts in front of him but can you imagine him hitting 4 or 5 in that potent offense ??



Overall though , this should make the Cubbies the 2nd best team in the NL





I'd probably do :



Roberts

Theriot

Lee

Sori

ARam

Fukudome

Pie

Soto



[ March 15, 2008, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: RedRum ]

[Crazy Like a Fox]

Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

First time in a long time we agree.



Roberts is sitting in what is a very nice lineup. He will either hit leadoff or #2. I know they have started slotting Soriano at #2 for now, but he is clearly the catalyst for that team and he hits great out of the leadoff spot and horrible out of any other spot. I personally would put Roberts at leadoff and don't look back.

there is ZERO chance soriano goes back to leadoff. it will be roberts (or theroit if no roberts). [/QUOTE]I think they have already made up their mind about atleast going into the season with Soriano at #2, but that's strictly to save his legs, and ultimately just want him to keep him completely healthy. Do you really think Soriano (without Roberts) would be hitting #2 this year if not for Piniella worrying about his legs?



Piniella has said in the past, he has "no problem having Soriano bat leadoff" and Alfonso clearly hits MUCH better in the leadoff spot than any other.



I think saying he has "ZERO" chance at batting leadoff is too aggressive. He has batted 30-35 points higher in the leadoff spot compared to other spots in lineup. I think at some point during the year (especially if he struggles at #2) we'll see him hitting leadoff. Time will tell.



I do agree, that Roberts is the smart choice at leadoff with his speed and solid on-base percentage. Either way, they'll score many runs. [/QUOTE]Gekko, so much for "ZERO" chance to hit leadoff. I thought I outlined it for you my reasons that Soriano will hit leadoff "at some point during the year". Piniella re-iterated my thoughts.



Read the article:



CHICAGO -- Alfonso Soriano was back in the leadoff spot for the Cubs on Thursday, and that's that, Lou Piniella said.

Piniella decided to return Soriano to the top of the order after two games, saying the left fielder was more comfortable there. He has batted first most of his career.



"We'll just put him in the leadoff hole," Piniella said. "That's where he hit last year. This is no big change. All we're doing is flip-flopping the first two hitters in the lineup."



Ryan Theriot now will bat second and may move lower in the order against left-handed pitchers. That's a story for another day. Soriano is staying put at No. 1.



Piniella had said before Wednesday's game that he wanted to keep the Cubs' lineup constant, which meant Soriano would've hit second. But after the game, which the Cubs lost to the Milwaukee Brewers, the manager changed his mind. Piniella seemed to grow weary of the questions.



"Where did Soriano hit last year? He hit in the No. 1 hole," Piniella said. "Where did he hit this spring? He hit in the one hole. So he's back in the one hole. I don't know what makes things so complicated or such changing.



"I am not going to be making excuses or giving explanations on why I want to change the lineup from time to time. That's what I get paid to do, and that's what I'm going to do."



Well, we're going to keep asking.



"You can ask all you want, and you're asking," Piniella said. "I'm telling you, I don't need to justify it. I think I know what I'm doing."



This spring, Piniella said he wanted to drop Soriano down to protect his leg. The outfielder had missed significant time last season because of an injury to his left leg in April and his right leg in August. He seems to be running well despite the cold weather this week.



"There are other reasons I put him in the two hole for God's sake," Piniella said. "We've got him in the one hole now, and that's where he's going to stay."



The Cubs had tried to acquire a top-of-the-order player this offseason -- anyone hear of Brian Roberts?-- but didn't make a deal. Moving Soriano down may have been an attempt to prepare him in case the team did make a trade.



Last season, when Soriano led off, the Cubs went 69-56. He has a career .295 average as the leadoff man, and he's happier there.



"Truthfully, I like him in the leadoff role," Piniella said. "That's where he likes it, that's where I like it. That's where we'll put him, and we'll just go play baseball."



Carrie Muskat is a reporter for MLB.com