Official Juan Pierre_is_DOA_Thread

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:02 pm

Juan Pierre didn't get into Monday's game, snapping his consecutive games streak at 434.

Torre sent a message to Pierre IN THE FIRST GAME OF THE SEASON that he is a bench warmer until he gets traded, check that, if he gets traded.

I wonder when we'll see the first Pierre sightings on the waiver wire? I know it's hard to part with one of your earlier picks, but once the season starts, ADP doesn't mean a thing. You gotta be like Joe Torre and put your best lineup out there.

[ March 31, 2008, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:24 pm

If I were a MLB team looking for a speedy OF...I'd take the smaller contract and pay Kenny Lofton any day over the big contract of Pierre.

~Lance

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:27 pm

what do the teams who drafted pierre thinking they had 50 steals in the bank do now???

how do they make those steals up?

NorCalAtlFan · Post by **NorCalAtlFan** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:30 pm

Judy Gathright?

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:40 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

what do the teams who drafted pierre thinking they had 50 steals in the bank do now???

how do they make those steals up? Hopefully they bid the necessary $252 on Velez yesterday!

Jackstraw · Post by **Jackstraw** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:44 pm

Let's see... Ethier went 0 for 4, with 3 LOB.

I'm sure Pierre got a chuckle out of that one, while he was counting all of that money

Keep sending that message, Joe... I'm busy anyway, counting all of this money.

rockitsauce · Post by **rockitsauce** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:06 pm

I've already said I was surprised to see Pierre getting drafted before Andruw in some lges (only from the standpoint that it didn't look like lil' Juan was startin'), but I think it's a little early to presume he has no value.

I know most everybody hates "Judys", but Pierre still had almost 200 hits last yr to go w/ a .296 ave, 96 runs & 64 SB's! It seems Torre must just not like him b/c I've seen MANY veteran players have a terrible spring and NOT lose their jobs. What has Ethier done to show he should start? We know Pierre has no arm & certainly not the best OBP, but what he does do, he does as well as anyone in the lge.

W/ what the Dodgers are paying him, you'd think he'd get the benefit of the doubt. Anyway as we all know it's a LONG season so (although I do not have him) I would not be that worried....a trade, a slump, an injury and he's back out there.

DOA...no way!

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:08 pm

Originally posted by rockitsauce:

I would not be that worried....WHAT!?!?!?! for all the pierre owners who were COUNTING on 50 steals, this could be a deathblow. you don't just "makeup" 50 steals. maybe 10-20 on the waiver wire, but 50, NFW!

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:12 pm

Originally posted by rockitsauce:

W/ what the Dodgers are paying him, you'd think he'd get the benefit of the doubt. Tell that to Jay Gibbons!

Thunder · Post by **Thunder** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:16 pm

except for ichiro, pierre has more hits in MLB the last 7 years, not to mention the SB's

....can't find a job?

[ March 31, 2008, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: cleaver beavers ]

rockitsauce · Post by **rockitsauce** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:23 pm

How do you know he's not gonna get 50? It's one freaking game...me thinks someone might be trying his misinformation bit!

Look at his #'s for his career...he's always around .300 100 runs 45-65 sb. If I had'em I'm not going into the panic room cuz some self-proclaimed expert says he's no good.

patience.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:34 pm

Originally posted by rockitsauce:

How do you know he's not gonna get 50? It's one freaking game...me thinks someone might be trying his misinformation bit!

i bid $6 on velez this past week. pierre would garner a similar bid.

now if i heard through my sources that pierre was getting traded for a FT gig, i'd bump my price up a bit. until then he is bench or waiver wire material. stop kidding yourself that his past stats mean something this year. Torre painted the picture today. one of pierre's greatest accomplishments (his active game streak) went right down the shitter.

ya, if you can afford to keep pierre on your bench, by all means. now if you have granderson, vmart, hermedia on your team, then it's a different story.

[ March 31, 2008, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

Thunder · Post by **Thunder** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:36 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by rockitsauce:

How do you know he's not gonna get 50? It's one freaking game...me thinks someone might be trying his misinformation bit!

i bid $6 on velez this past week. pierre would garner a similar bid.

now if i heard through my sources that pierre was getting traded for a FT gig, i'd bump my price up a bit. until then he is bench or waiver wire material. stop kidding yourself that his past stats mean something this year. Torre painted the picture today. one of pierre's greatest accomplishments (his active game streak) went right down the shitter today.

ya, if you can afford to keep pierre on his bench, by all means. now if you have granderson, vmart, hermedia on your bench, then it's a diffeent story. [/QUOTE]guarantee you he won't be on the waiver wire this weekend.

rockitsauce · Post by **rockitsauce** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:46 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

one of pierre's greatest accomplishments (his active game streak) went right down the shitter.

[/QB]greatest accomplishment??? who gives a s**t?

I'm sure Pierre is real upset he didn't pinch hit in that game cuz he was SOOO close to Miguel Tejada for 2nd place!

By the way, I'm starting to think the Yankees knew what they were doing b/c this move makes no sense. 2nd only to Ichiro in hits over the last 7 yrs and now all of a sudden he's worthless!

They played the Giants today, it won't be so easy against AZ, Colorado, & S.D.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:48 pm

Originally posted by rockitsauce:

greatest accomplishment??? who gives a s**t?

we KNOW joe torre doesn't.

Thunder · Post by **Thunder** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:01 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by rockitsauce:

greatest accomplishment??? who gives a s**t?

we KNOW joe torre doesn't. [/QUOTE]gg..did you ever do the slide?

Jackstraw · Post by **Jackstraw** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:10 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by rockitsauce:

greatest accomplishment??? who gives a s**t?

we KNOW joe torre doesn't. [/QUOTE]I'll give Gekko credit on that being a pretty big accomplishment for Juan I-Gotta-Splinter-In-My-Butt Pierre... Pierre riding the bench was a pretty big statement by Torre and the Dodgers.

Something is going on behind the scenes. Bonds is the only one getting blackballed right now.

But patience is key. You can't separate reality from the game. Pierre is too good to be on the bench. Just look around the outfields in baseball.

But, spin it, Gekko, spin it! I'll take him in the other three leagues to ride the pine until he does get to start

Now, it takes Atlanta 17 innings to finally get an African-American on the field, and he was Hispanic... The Ghost of Ty Cobb is calling Pierre to take Mark I'm-A-Bookmark-For-The-Next-Guy Kotsay's job!!!

[ March 31, 2008, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Jackstraw ]

rockitsauce · Post by **rockitsauce** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:27 pm

Sheff, Lofton, now Pierre...hmmm, maybe Joe doesn't like the bruthas!

tongue planted firmly in cheek, don't get excited!

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:13 pm

I got Pierre in the 12th round - was and am still expecting 30sb from him.

No clue if it'll happen due to inept play of the rest of LA's OF, an injury or a trade but I'm pretty confident he can shake out 400 ab

Dyv

RedRum · Post by **RedRum** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:20 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by rockitsauce:

I would not be that worried....WHAT!?!?!?! for all the pierre owners who were COUNTING on 50 steals, this could be a deathblow. you don't just "makeup" 50 steals. maybe 10-20 on the waiver wire, but 50, NFW! [/QUOTE]

[ April 01, 2008, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: RedRum ]

kgrady · Post by **kgrady** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:48 am

I have mixed feelings on the Juan Pierre benching. As a Pierre owner counting on his 50+ steals, I'm annoyed and surprised. From a baseball standpoint though, it makes sense. Pierre is a marginal player in real life. Yes he steals bases, but he doesn't do anything else particularly well. While the batting average tends to be pretty good, the OBP is just so-so. Andre Ethier is probably the better player, and he would seem to have more upside than Pierre.

My surprise in this move stems both directly and indirectly from Juan Pierre's big contract. Most of us scratched our heads when the Dodgers inked Pierre to that 5-year, $44 million deal last off-season. That said, the Dodgers management saw something there that they really liked. After all, it wasn't Grady Little who signed him. Last season Pierre did exactly what the Dodgers should have realistically expected him to do. If his performance was somehow a disappointment, the Dodgers have no one to blame but themselves.

I still find it hard to believe that Pierre will ride the bench all year, given the amount of money owed him. Also, while Andre Ethier is a decent player, he's no superstar in the making. By keeping Pierre on the bench, any trade value he may have pretty much goes out the window.

I have no choice but to hold onto him for a while. In my case, Pierre has some company. I'm stuck (for a while) holding onto Bobby Howry and Carlos Marmol as I wait for Kerry Wood to go on the DL or cough up the closer job.

Kevin

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:19 am

Originally posted by kgrady:

I have mixed feelings on the Juan Pierre benching. As a Pierre owner counting on his 50+ steals, I'm annoyed and surprised. From a baseball standpoint though, it makes sense. Pierre is a marginal player in real life. Yes he steals bases, but he doesn't do anything else particularly well. While the batting average tends to be pretty good, the OBP is just so-so. Andre Ethier is probably the better player, and he would seem to have more upside than Pierre.

My surprise in this move stems both directly and indirectly from Juan Pierre's big contract. Most of us scratched our heads when the Dodgers inked Pierre to that 5-year, $44 million deal last off-season. That said, the Dodgers management saw something there that they really liked. After all, it wasn't Grady Little who signed him. Last season Pierre did exactly what the Dodgers should have realistically expected him to do. If his performance was somehow a disappointment, the Dodgers have no one to blame but themselves.

I still find it hard to believe that Pierre will ride the bench all year, given the amount of money owed him. Also, while Andre Ethier is a decent player, he's no superstar in the making. By keeping Pierre on the bench, any trade value he may have pretty much goes out the window.

I have no choice but to hold onto him for a while. In my case, Pierre has some company. I'm stuck (for a while) holding onto Bobby Howry and Carlos Marmol as I wait for Kerry Wood to go on the DL or cough up the closer job.

Kevin Well said...

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:39 am

Originally posted by kgrady:

I have no choice but to hold onto him for a while. In my case, Pierre has some company. I'm stuck (for a while) holding onto Bobby Howry and Carlos Marmol as I wait for Kerry Wood to go on the DL or cough up the closer job.

i hear ya. it's tough holding onto players, esp when you have 3 or more of them. it's not just holding on to them and not getting any immediate production that stings. it's also the opportunity cost. imagine if didn't bid on braun, gallardo, lincecum, etc... last year because you were "holding on" to many players. more realistic examples would be missing out on 2 start pitchers. good luck!

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:51 am

Don't think Howry will be worth a roster spot. He's probably the 4th or 5th guy in that pen that should be in the closer role. The young guys are becoming more experienced, I think his one shot was last year while Marmol, Wuertz and Hart all weren't time tested enough.

Jackstraw · Post by **Jackstraw** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:53 am

Originally posted by kgrady:

Pierre is a marginal player in real life. Yes he steals bases, but he doesn't do anything else particularly well. While the batting average tends to be pretty good, the OBP is just so-so.

Kevin,

Pierre does another thing really well... Puts the ball into play. He's aggressive. Very few strikeouts per season, very few walks. This is where people are trying to look too far into him, and Juan Pierre could be caught up in one of these managerial-sabermetric conundrums. Pierre's traditional stats are more than enough to see what he really is. His OBP is where it seems that people start dissenting. I say that OBP is not a good measure for Pierre because he puts the ball into play rather than watching a lot of pitches. Sort of like a third tier Ichiro.

Ichiro career OBP: 0.379

Pierre career OBP: 0.348

Ichiro in 2007: 0.351-111-6-68-37

Pierre in 2007: 0.293-96-0-41-64

Pierre is no Ichiro by any means, but those numbers are still pretty darn good.

Finally,

Ichiro 2007 BB:K - 49:77

Pierre 2007 BB:K - 33:37

Make your own interpretation, folks, or you can let Gekko spin it for you

BTW, good post, Kevin.

[ April 01, 2008, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Jackstraw ]