C.C. Sabathia

Marauders · Post by **Marauders** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:47 pm

C.C. Sabathia 3.1 12 9 9 2 4 0 11.57

(3) Awful starts in a row....whats up with him?

Dirt Dogs · Post by **Dirt Dogs** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:49 pm

O-VER-RA-TED!!!!

Beckett should of won the CY Young!

He is pitching just as good as he finished off last year in the playoffs.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:55 pm

burnout, just like with zambrano

Hard Heads · Post by **Hard Heads** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:00 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

burnout, just like with zambrano You keep telling yourself that with Big Z GG. He looked very good against a great lineup tonight. One bad call on what shouldnt have been a double and a drawn in infield single, otherwise the line isnt bad. Z is doing just fine my friend.

Hard Heads · Post by **Hard Heads** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:01 pm

You want to talk about burnout, let's look at Roy Oswalt and then we can talk burnout.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:12 pm

Originally posted by Hard Heads:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

burnout, just like with zambrano You keep telling yourself that with Big Z GG. He looked very good against a great lineup tonight. One bad call on what shouldnt have been a double and a drawn in infield single, otherwise the line isnt bad. Z is doing just fine my friend. [/QUOTE]the line doesn't lie. didn't look good to me.

a lineup with dobbs in the two hole and Bruntlett is NOT great. sorry.

[ April 11, 2008, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:12 pm

Originally posted by Hard Heads:

You want to talk about burnout, let's look at Roy Oswalt and then we can talk burnout. yes, oswalt is cooked as well.

Hard Heads · Post by **Hard Heads** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:13 pm

Regardless of you being completely wrong on Zambrano , I am amazed you haven't posted anything concerning Jose Reyes and his Hammy's! Unless of ocurse I missed it.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:27 pm

Originally posted by Hard Heads:

Big Z looked very good against a great lineup tonight. dobbs, bruntlett, and no rollins = great lineup :rolleyes:

Hard Heads · Post by **Hard Heads** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:29 pm

roll your eyes all you want. best park to hit in and a solid lineup.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:31 pm

Originally posted by Hard Heads:

roll your eyes all you want. best park to hit in and a solid lineup. 1) :rolleyes:

2) solid lineup is much more accurate. well done.

Hard Heads · Post by **Hard Heads** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:39 pm

Thanks papa! :rolleyes:

Tony Cincotta · Post by **Tony Cincotta** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:17 pm

Too many innings last season including playoffs.

Contract seasons do not work for the mentally unstable.

He is an Indian ...Have you not seen Major League

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:09 am

Originally posted by Hard Heads:

You want to talk about burnout, let's look at Roy Oswalt and then we can talk burnout. Had Oswalt last year and he was still money, although the decline in K rate was noticable. Then this year he comes out saying he is messing around with a knuckleball. Something ain't right when a pitcher his age and in his prime is talking about making a style change. I passed on him in all leagues.

The Mighty Men · Post by **The Mighty Men** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:30 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

burnout, just like with zambrano So far, Big Z has been very good. Z's first two starts were tremendous. Last night, Fukudome dropped the ball (tough catch) and allowed the Pillies to go ahead. You might want to table the Big Z sucks theory until he actually does.

For goodness sakes, at least he is far remeoved from CC Sabathia!

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:36 am

Originally posted by The Mighty Men:

You might want to table the Big Z sucks theory until he actually does.

see the last two years for defintion of "sucking"

it's only a matter of time b4 he resorts back to his "sucking" ways in 08

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:56 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Men:

You might want to table the Big Z sucks theory until he actually does.

see the last two years for defintion of "sucking"

it's only a matter of time b4 he resorts back to his "sucking" ways in 08

[/QUOTE]If a 3.41 ERA with 210 K's and 16-18 Wins is sucking, I'll take it.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:32 am

Is it safe to say that Bill Hall is BACK!!!?

(the 2006 version)

~Lance

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:02 pm

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Is it safe to say that Bill Hall is BACK!!!?

(the 2006 version)

~Lance I think he's back.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:31 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

If a 3.41 ERA with 210 K's and 16-18 Wins is sucking, I'll take it. i guess the "suck" is on the "whip" cream

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:37 pm

19 IP, 18 K's and 2 BB this year. Seems to go against all concerns about him ... I'm sticking with my NL C.Y. prediction.

Loops · Post by **Loops** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:43 am

I feel like we should consider Zambrano's overuse in a per game overuse basis. In an attempt to figure out how many times Cubs' managers left in Big Z one batter too many (Aaron Harang owners should feel this pain) I found an interesting stat. Big Z's hr rate increases considerably (40%) between pitches 90-105 as does opp. slg. I'm sure that many pitchers suffer the same fate but I do think its telling in the case of Big Z. In watching the Cubs the last few years it seems that his "workhorse" reputation allows managers to stay with him for an extra batter or two instead of going to the pen (Aaron Harang/Dan Haren anyone?)which ultimately draws back his #s due to a higher occurrences of "mistake" pitches. It seems his reputation for reliability and durability costs him stats somehow.

Just a theory but man it sucks when your pitcher goes 7.1 ip of 2 run ball and then coughs up a cheap dinger on pitch 103 because his manager doesn't want to go to the pen.

Also to connect the Z discussion to CC it seems noteworthy that 05 was Z's peak season in terms of performance which also happened to be the highest # of ip. He has clearly been in decline since 05.

CC upped his ip total by an insane 70ip or a full 30% from previous levels last season and I think it clearly is affecting him right now. Possibly the beginning of a slow decline from CC very much in the same style as Z.

Another guy to watch how he deals with IP spike is Wainwright, Just saying. He looks good now but lets see how his arm holds up this year, could be a similar overuse concern. worth monitoring at least.

The list of young guys who have faded after seasons of heavy usage is long and noteworthy. Zack Duke/ Dontrelle/ Capuano/ Chris Carpenter twice/ Halladay (slightly)/ Prior/Zito/Bonderman/etc. I think this is what is up with CC. I'm buying CC next year unless he really hurts himself this year.

1 more bold call to chip in as well is this-

CC Sabathia will win 300 games in his career. That's right I went there.

Marauders · Post by **Marauders** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:12 am

I have C.C. in one of my sats. I'm planning on sitting him this week. Will anyone else be doing the same?.....The way I look at it is he has a better chance right now of hurting my team then helping. If I miss out on....(7 IN 6H 3ER 2BB 6K's Win) It's not a big deal, but If I have another (3 IN 10H 7ER 3BB 6K's)...It's going to have a lot worse negative affect....I'm going to have to see at least one good start to justify him in my lineup.

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:15 am

cc and prince need to switch diet plans

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:58 pm

Originally posted by Marauders:

I have C.C. in one of my sats. I'm planning on sitting him this week. Will anyone else be doing the same?.....The way I look at it is he has a better chance right now of hurting my team then helping. If I miss out on....(7 IN 6H 3ER 2BB 6K's Win) It's not a big deal, but If I have another (3 IN 10H 7ER 3BB 6K's)...It's going to have a lot worse negative affect....I'm going to have to see at least one good start to justify him in my lineup. This is probably the smart move. I considered benching, but decided to start him thinking he has no worse a chance at a bad game than the next pitcher off my bench, and probably a greater chance at a good game - particularly since he's facing the suddenly hapless Tigers.