How bad......

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:43 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Wow! A lot ok knowledge dropping on the boards today...hitters adjust to pitchers? Wow, never thought of that one! lol Just answering questions to the best of my ability. :rolleyes:

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:43 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Wow! A lot ok knowledge dropping on the boards today...hitters adjust to pitchers? Wow, never thought of that one! lol Ha!

...THIS coming from "Sir Cut & Paste" himself!

~Lance

billywaz · Post by **billywaz** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:45 pm

Does anyone else out there think that Borowski will STILL find a way to wreck someone's WHIP and ERA on the DL?

I'm 50/50.

Hard Heads · Post by **Hard Heads** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:49 pm

Originally posted by billywaz:

Does anyone else out there think that Borowski will STILL find a way to wreck someone's WHIP and ERA on the DL?

I'm 50/50.

Killing mine while I have my replacements on the bench. LOL Wish he couldve blown up Sunday and made his way monday

Hard Heads · Post by **Hard Heads** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:51 pm

sorry hit send to early, made his way to the DL Monday morning, not Tuesday.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:38 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by billywaz:

is Joe Borowski????

Seriously, I knew he was bad, but actually WATCHING him pitch this evening made me wanna puke! I can guarantee this tool will NEVER find his way on another team of mine!

It is amazing what you can pick up when you actually WATCH the games! When he keeps the ball down he's a solid pitcher. He'll come around. Right now he's just grooving the ball in there belt high - not a good idea to Manny Ramirez. [/QUOTE]did Bowwowski help you change a tire in the rain while he was a Cubbie ?

The safest time to pitch Bowwow is in the 10th inning of a 9 inning game ! [/QUOTE]Joe Borowski injured his triceps muscle on March 14 and spent the next month trying to pitch through it.

For all the Borowski haters ... no one wants to believe it - fantasy owners and CLEV fans alike -

but when healthy he's a solid closer. Problem is he'll always try to play when hurt, unlike most of the baseball universe of *ussies who want to rest three weeks if a muscle feels tight.

Joe's not so much an "athlete" as he is a baseball player. That's why I like him.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:59 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by billywaz:

is Joe Borowski????

Seriously, I knew he was bad, but actually WATCHING him pitch this evening made me wanna puke! I can guarantee this tool will NEVER find his way on another team of mine!

It is amazing what you can pick up when you actually WATCH the games! When he keeps the ball down he's a solid pitcher. He'll come around. Right now he's just grooving the ball in there belt high - not a good idea to Manny Ramirez. [/QUOTE]This is the same guy who managed to have a 5.07 e.r.a. in the first half last year only to "come around" with a 4.78 e.r.a. in the 2nd half. He's horrible. He's the worst closer I've ever seen hold onto his job while performing so miserably. And I can't buy into the "he had 45 saves so he was successful" argument. You can't be considered a solid closer with a 5+ e.r.a. It can't happen.

The Indians are idiots for a relying on a guy who is so bad when they clearly have better alternatives in the bullpen.

Come to think of it, Borowski would be horrible even in middle relief.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:14 am

Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by billywaz:

is Joe Borowski????

Seriously, I knew he was bad, but actually WATCHING him pitch this evening made me wanna puke! I can guarantee this tool will NEVER find his way on another team of mine!

It is amazing what you can pick up when you actually WATCH the games! When he keeps the ball down he's a solid pitcher. He'll come around. Right now he's just grooving the ball in there belt high - not a good idea to Manny Ramirez. [/QUOTE]This is the same guy who managed to have a 5.07 e.r.a. in the first half last year only to "come around" with a 4.78 e.r.a. in the 2nd half. He's horrible. He's the worst closer I've ever seen hold onto his job while performing so miserably. And I can't buy into the "he had 45 saves so he was successful" argument. You can't be considered a solid closer with a 5+ e.r.a. It can't happen.

The Indians are idiots for a relying on a guy who is so bad when they clearly have better alternatives in the bullpen.

Come to think of it, Borowski would be horrible even in middle relief. [/QUOTE]See its this kind of thinking that gets him a bad rap.

If he comes into a game with a 2-run lead and gives up one run does it matter? No, his team will win the game. So let's compare the mindset of a baseball player to that of an "athlete".

Baseball player: I've got a 3-1 count on this guy. I am going to throw him a strike no matter what, he may knock it out of the park but so what? If they don't score two it's meaningless. Odds of player actually hitting a homerun = 15%

Athlete: I've got a 3-1 count on this guy. I'm gonna try to throw a strike on the outside corner, if I miss, so what - I haven't given up a run yet. Odds of walking batter = 65%

In the long run, the baseball player will save more games in spite of having a higher ERA because his goal is to win the game rather than worry about giving up meaningless runs.

This message approved by the "Joe Borowksi for Closer Campaign"

BigHurt · Post by **BigHurt** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:31 am

This message approved by the "Joe Borowksi for Closer Campaign"Members: 1

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:38 am

Originally posted by BigHurt:

quote:

This message approved by the "Joe Borowksi for Closer Campaign"Members: 1 [/QUOTE]founder: Eric Wedge = 2

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:56 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by BigHurt:

quote:

This message approved by the "Joe Borowksi for Closer Campaign"Members: 1 [/QUOTE]founder: Eric Wedge = 2 [/QUOTE]Shapiro = 3

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:57 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by BigHurt:

quote:

This message approved by the "Joe Borowksi for Closer Campaign"Members: 1 [/QUOTE]founder: Eric Wedge = 2 [/QUOTE]Shapiro = 3 [/QUOTE]If Betancourt is #4 the Indians are in trouble.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:34 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by billywaz:

is Joe Borowski????

Seriously, I knew he was bad, but actually WATCHING him pitch this evening made me wanna puke! I can guarantee this tool will NEVER find his way on another team of mine!

It is amazing what you can pick up when you actually WATCH the games! When he keeps the ball down he's a solid pitcher. He'll come around. Right now he's just grooving the ball in there belt high - not a good idea to Manny Ramirez. [/QUOTE]This is the same guy who managed to have a 5.07 e.r.a. in the first half last year only to "come around" with a 4.78 e.r.a. in the 2nd half. He's horrible. He's the worst closer I've ever seen hold onto his job while performing so miserably. And I can't buy into the "he had 45 saves so he was successful" argument. You can't be considered a solid closer with a 5+ e.r.a. It can't happen.

The Indians are idiots for a relying on a guy who is so bad when they clearly have better alternatives in the bullpen.

Come to think of it, Borowski would be horrible even in middle relief. [/QUOTE]See its this kind of thinking that gets him a bad rap.

If he comes into a game with a 2-run lead and gives up one run does it matter? No, his team will win the game. So let's compare the mindset of a baseball player to that of an "athlete".

Baseball player: I've got a 3-1 count on this guy. I am going to throw him a strike no matter what, he may knock it out of the park but so what? If they don't score two it's meaningless. Odds of player actually hitting a homerun = 15%

Athlete: I've got a 3-1 count on this guy. I'm gonna try to throw a strike on the outside corner, if I miss, so what - I haven't given up a run yet. Odds of walking batter = 65%

In the long run, the baseball player will save more games in spite of having a higher ERA because his goal is to win the game rather than worry about giving up meaningless runs.

This message approved by the "Joe Borowksi for Closer Campaign" [/QUOTE]Yes, the main goal is to win the game. But I don't buy into "he can give up as many runs as he wants as long as he closes the game". Eventually that will bite him in the ass. Oh wait, it already has. 2 blown saves out of 4 chances with 8 earned runs, 3 homers allowed and 4 walks in 4 innings. OUCH! But I see what you're saying, it doesn't matter how many runs he gives up.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:44 am

He blew 2 because he was hurt and couldn't throw over 80. I'd suggest waiting to pass judgement based on how he does when healthy, or have we seen that data already - like last seasons 45 saves? Not too confusing really.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:09 am

Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by billywaz:

is Joe Borowski????

Seriously, I knew he was bad, but actually WATCHING him pitch this evening made me wanna puke! I can guarantee this tool will NEVER find his way on another team of mine!

It is amazing what you can pick up when you actually WATCH the games! When he keeps the ball down he's a solid pitcher. He'll come around. Right now he's just grooving the ball in there belt high - not a good idea to Manny Ramirez. [/QUOTE]This is the same guy who managed to have a 5.07 e.r.a. in the first half last year only to "come around" with a 4.78 e.r.a. in the 2nd half. He's horrible. He's the worst closer I've ever seen hold onto his job while performing so miserably. And I can't buy into the "he had 45 saves so he was successful" argument. You can't be considered a solid closer with a 5+ e.r.a. It can't happen.

The Indians are idiots for a relying on a guy who is so bad when they clearly have better alternatives in the bullpen.

Come to think of it, Borowski would be horrible even in middle relief. [/QUOTE]Crazy,

I disagree. Last year, Borowski appeared in 69 games. He gave up 37 ER of which 14 came in three bad games. Three out of 69 means that 95% of the time he was money. I the 66 other games, he got a strike-out in 91% of the innings he pitched and had a 3.234 ERA, a 1.250 WHIP and 45 Saves. He never claimed to be the best closer in baseball, but he had good results for the Indians if not for Fantasy.

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:28 am

the really bad news crazy- his stats as a closer are better than bettancourts

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:34 am

Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by billywaz:

is Joe Borowski????

Seriously, I knew he was bad, but actually WATCHING him pitch this evening made me wanna puke! I can guarantee this tool will NEVER find his way on another team of mine!

It is amazing what you can pick up when you actually WATCH the games! When he keeps the ball down he's a solid pitcher. He'll come around. Right now he's just grooving the ball in there belt high - not a good idea to Manny Ramirez. [/QUOTE]This is the same guy who managed to have a 5.07 e.r.a. in the first half last year only to "come around" with a 4.78 e.r.a. in the 2nd half. He's horrible. He's the worst closer I've ever seen hold onto his job while performing so miserably. And I can't buy into the "he had 45 saves so he was successful" argument. You can't be considered a solid closer with a 5+ e.r.a. It can't happen.

The Indians are idiots for a relying on a guy who is so bad when they clearly have better alternatives in the bullpen.

Come to think of it, Borowski would be horrible even in middle relief. [/QUOTE]Even with how horrible you think he is, at 83 mph, he still blows it by Giambi.