Rickie Weeks

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:35 am

Originally posted by bjoak:

quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

quote:Originally posted by bjoak:

Kev, You know I crunch numbers as much as anyone so for me to say that I sort of agree with the big foot hopefully means a little. Anyway, let me just ask a question: If Weeks plays for the next ten years and is healthy in each of the ten years (

) and hits below .240 but with an outstanding contact rate in each of them, do you expect him to hit for a decent average in the eleventh year? I ask because I would think that you would. There is a point at which you have to admit that a guy has certain propitious skills, but that they don't always translate into a good hitter, good pitcher or whatever. I think we are well past that point with Weeks. Mr. Contact rate guy....Can you tell me what Weeks contact rate is this year and if it is better than his past history? [/QUOTE]You have me confused with someone else. Kevin was talking about contact rate earlier in the thread was why I brought it up. [/QUOTE]I was referring to a discussion in March with you.

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:37 am

I was referring to a discussion in March with you. I don't recall.

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:38 am

KJ, not saying you won't turn it around or anything (esp. with Weeks on the DL now

), but you live in a pretty weak BA house to be hurling such large stones at everyone.

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:53 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Young

.299 6-32 51 runs 4sb

DeRosa

.313 8-35 40 runs 3 sb

Whoooohooooooooo You'd be winning one cat plus one extra steal - for a pick 20 rds earlier!!!

... and Young is pretty much doing the best he could possibly be doing; taking a guy like him in Rd 5 isn't playing to win, it's playing not be lose. That explains why I'm in 1st and 5th with him then in the two leagues I have him.

I guess playing to win means only taking a huge risk in Rd 5. I found mine in Rd 6

It's playing to keep batting average high and avoiding the abyss you are in at .2649, and also get high runs, rbi out of a weak position, while knowing you can get Josh in the next round

I'll take my huge risks at OF (Hamilton), where it's much easier to replace a guy with a Ben Francisco type in faab if something happens.

Why not just take the HR RBI and AVG from your Mark Ellis and take a better "playing to win" pick in the 5th?

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:54 am

Originally posted by bjoak:

KJ, not saying you won't turn it around or anything (esp. with Weeks on the DL now

), but you live in a pretty weak BA house to be hurling such large stones at everyone. In most of my leagues BA is ok. In the main I got buried with Tulo's 150 and every scrap heap replacement I've put in there for him who probably put up their worst week of the season while I had them (Vizquel, Grudz, Durham, Janish) - that was brutal. I'd been waiting on R Vazquez to get his 10th game at SS for about 3 weeks (he finally did last weekend).

With my expectations for Tulo (300) and Miggy Cabrera (330), I could've easily absorbed Week's likely 250-260 BA, even much worse.

So were M Cabrera and Tulo bad drafting or bad luck? Dunno, you tell me.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:57 am

Originally posted by UFS:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Young

.299 6-32 51 runs 4sb

DeRosa

.313 8-35 40 runs 3 sb

Whoooohooooooooo You'd be winning one cat plus one extra steal - for a pick 20 rds earlier!!!

... and Young is pretty much doing the best he could possibly be doing; taking a guy like him in Rd 5 isn't playing to win, it's playing not be lose. That explains why I'm in 1st and 5th with him then in the two leagues I have him.

I guess playing to win means only taking a huge risk in Rd 5. I found mine in Rd 6

It's playing to keep batting average high and avoiding the abyss you are in at .2649, and also get high runs, rbi out of a weak position, while knowing you can get Josh in the next round

I'll take my huge risks at OF (Hamilton), where it's much easier to replace a guy with a Ben Francisco type in faab if something happens.

Why not just take the HR RBI and AVG from your Mark Ellis and take a better "playing to win" pick in the 5th?

[/QUOTE]Two fifth place finishes for your M Young strategy sounds about right. You're halfway there.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:04 am

UFS - I just went back and looked at your draft. You've got a whole team of "won't win, won't lose" players.

M Young, Beltre, A Hill, Youkilis, K Greene, G Anderson, D DeJesus, Garland, G Jenkins. It's like a who's who of guys I wouldn't have drafted except in positional desperation (i.e., Mark Ellis who I did draft in that scenario, I guess you liked that pick).

I'd say you've already locked up no worse than 7th place and no better than 4th. CONGRATS!

[ June 13, 2008, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

BaseBrawler · Post by **BaseBrawler** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:30 am

Batting average is important, because OBP, Contact Rate, and all those other catagories are not a fantasy catagory, And batting average is.

Because Rickie Weeks Bats 240 he is an average killer. And his other number dont make up for his average. His best career numbers are 16 HR 42 RBIs 25 Sbs. He does score some runs but he should he is in a great lineup.

Its not like he is Adam Dunn with 40 Hr and 100 RBI.

Ian Kinsler 2007 96 Runs 20 HRs 61 RBIs 23 SBs 263 ave.

Aaron Hill 2007 87 RUNS 17 HRs 78 RBIs 3 SBs 291 Ave

Kelly Johnson 2007 91 runs 16 HRs 68 RBIs 9 SBs 276 AVE

These guy are the same age as Rickie Weeks They have about the same major league exprience. They simply put up better numbers.

Contact rate On Base Pct are not fantasy catagories . When they are I will care about them. Rickie week just simply does put up the numbers that these players do. Because of that in my opionion he is not a better player YET!

Listen Weeks does have talent , and if he puts it toether it could be awesome. Im not going to judge a player by he may do this or that, but simply on what he does.

I know Mr dukes loves Rickie Weeks , and I dont I just hope we could agree to disagree. My standard of judging players has won me some good money and some nice trophies and Im sure its the same for Mr Dukes. We all have to have fun with this.

[ June 13, 2008, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: TheFoot ]

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:46 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

UFS - I just went back and looked at your draft. You've got a whole team of "won't win, won't lose" players.

M Young, Beltre, A Hill, Youkilis, K Greene, G Anderson, D DeJesus, Garland, G Jenkins. It's like a who's who of guys I wouldn't have drafted except in positional desperation (i.e., Mark Ellis who I did draft in that scenario, I guess you liked that pick).

I'd say you've already locked up no worse than 7th place and no better than 4th. CONGRATS!

What a load of crap. You entire team is filled with guys I would have never taken.

Pick #1.(3rd) Cabrera too high

Pick #2. Tulo too high

Pick #4. CC too high

Pick #5. Weeks too high

Pick #8 capps too high

Pick #9 Pedro too high.

Pick #10 Conor too high

Pick #11 Joba too high

Pick #12 Borowski

Pick #13 Towles

Pick 14 McLouth (had to post one good one)

Pick 17 C.Patterson

Pick 20 headly

Pick 7 carlos was good too, but 3 and 6 provide little plus value from where you took them.

You can't play to win the way you do on EVERY pick. There has to be some kind of balance and stability to go with your risky picks. All the guys you listed for me provided that balance to my risky picks, which is why I've been ahead of you the entire year. And all but Greene and A.Hill have provided Solid value where I took them.

The only thing you can say is you overvalued an incredible amount of early picks. A few reaches is a must for sure, but this many is suicide on a platter.

And since Biran is involved here, look at his draft. He doesn't start ANY risky picks until Rd 10/11 with Fukodome/Milledge. He built the base and then took his shots, which is the pattern of guys who win these things with guys like Markakis, R.Martin last year.

I only too Josh so high based on the personal info I had, which had nothing to do with any damn program.

Keep preaching though... I'll side with Brian on the Weeks issue.

[ June 13, 2008, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: UFS ]

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:35 pm

I appreciate the complement John though I don't know I agree with the analysis of my team. I clearly took Byrnes too early, though as I've noted before in almost Gekkoian detail, it was more of a mistake than a reach. And then Gekko and others noted in Gekkoian detail that I took Burnett too early--though that would still have been the right pick in my opinion if I get a pass for underestimating the Blue Jays stupidity and Burnett's finger injury.

However, one could definitely argue that my team would be a lot better if I didn't reach pre-round 10. I also agree with your sentiment that reaches are useful but better used post round 10 when there is less difference between the rounds and you have a foundation established.

Let's not bicker too much, fellas. I enjoy an inspired argument and learned a couple things on this thread. No need to bash each other's teams.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:45 pm

Originally posted by UFS:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

UFS - I just went back and looked at your draft. You've got a whole team of "won't win, won't lose" players.

M Young, Beltre, A Hill, Youkilis, K Greene, G Anderson, D DeJesus, Garland, G Jenkins. It's like a who's who of guys I wouldn't have drafted except in positional desperation (i.e., Mark Ellis who I did draft in that scenario, I guess you liked that pick).

I'd say you've already locked up no worse than 7th place and no better than 4th. CONGRATS!

What a load of crap. You entire team is filled with guys I would have never taken.

Pick #1.(3rd) Cabrera too high

Pick #2. Tulo too high

Pick #4. CC too high

Pick #5. Weeks too high

Pick #8 capps too high

Pick #9 Pedro too high.

Pick #10 Conor too high

Pick #11 Joba too high

Pick #12 Borowski

Pick #13 Towles

Pick 14 McLouth (had to post one good one)

Pick 17 C.Patterson

Pick 20 headly

Pick 7 carlos was good too, but 3 and 6 provide little plus value from where you took them.

You can't play to win the way you do on EVERY pick. There has to be some kind of balance and stability to go with your risky picks. All the guys you listed for me provided that balance to my risky picks, which is why I've been ahead of you the entire year. And all but Greene and A.Hill have provided Solid value where I took them.

The only thing you can say is you overvalued an incredible amount of early picks. A few reaches is a must for sure, but this many is suicide on a platter.

And since Biran is involved here, look at his draft. He doesn't start ANY risky picks until Rd 10/11 with Fukodome/Milledge. He built the base and then took his shots, which is the pattern of guys who win these things with guys like Markakis, R.Martin last year.

I only too Josh so high based on the personal info I had, which had nothing to do with any damn program.

Keep preaching though... I'll side with Brian on the Weeks issue. [/QUOTE]UFS, first you haven't been ahead of me all year. You moved ahead of me as the injuries piled up. What sucks about being in a league as good as LV3 is that a lot of w/w pickups in other lges just weren't available.

Second, you are spewing a bunch of in-hindsight-BS. Miguel Cabrera was a big risk. Tulo was a big risk. Sabathia a big risk. Capps and Conor too high. Give me a break.

Sabathia, after that bizarro start, has probably been the best pitcher in the league since. In his last 7 starts, 12 er, avg 7.6 IP per start and 50/10 k/bb.

[ June 13, 2008, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:55 pm

Originally posted by UFS:

Pick #8 capps too high

Pick #10 Conor too high

And since Biran is involved here, look at his draft. He doesn't start ANY risky picks until Rd 10/11 with Fukodome/Milledge. Capps 2.56/0.98 16 saves

Cordeo 2.73/1.18 12 saves

All considered they're both actually earnings at a $13 rate. But let me get this straight: I took Capps in the 8th, Brian took F Cordero in the 8th --- and Capps was a mistake, but Cordero was a solid pick ....

Conor Jackson in the 10th was too soon:

303 7 hr, 3sb, 38-38 r/r

While Byrnes was solid, low-risk in the 2nd rd:

219 6 hr, 4sb, 28/23 r/r

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:07 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

UFS, bjoak & foot:

Who is likely to be the better fantasy player based on the follwing ratios per plate appearance?

Player A: Who is the beloved Chris Young.

23% strikeouts

11% walks or HPB

1 in 19 PA, hits HR or Steals Base

Player B: Who is the hated Rickie Weeks.

18% strikeouts

15% walks or HPB

1 in 16 PA hits HR or Steals Base Answers, if you didn't know. Rickie strikes out less, gets on base more (ex/ hit luck) and delivers more HR/SB production per PA.

BTW, Doughboys and I have this Weeks/Young sidebet going, which I still think I am going to win (highest BA). Right now I am down 210 to 237, but the secondary stats are on my side if the hitting luck evens out. (Young's K rate is up slightly on the year, Weeks is down a lot).

[ June 13, 2008, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:14 pm

Chris Young rules the world!

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:16 pm

Originally posted by bjoak:

Chris Young rules the world!

Fourth rounder, and apparently well worth it using UFS' logic.

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:33 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by bjoak:

Chris Young rules the world!

Fourth rounder, and apparently well worth it using UFS' logic.

[/QUOTE]Well, as I said, I didn't draft him because I had the same concerns as I have with Weeks, but you have to assume he'll steal more than this. Last year, supports it with 9 SB's before the break and 18 after. The D'backs seem one of those teams that runs more as the year winds down. I notice that among other things you left their linedrive % off of your cherrypicked quiz.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:40 pm

Duke - sounds like u are talking yourself into takings weeks in the 4th or 5th next year!

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:51 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Duke - sounds like u are talking yourself into takings weeks in the 4th or 5th next year! Depends, he wasn't a target this year. I nearly took McCann there but thought Soto could put up similar numbers with a much later pick. Someone jumped in way early on Soto so I got stuck with low-level C crap. Have Soto in most of my other lges, they're doing much better.

[ June 13, 2008, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

BaseBrawler · Post by **BaseBrawler** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:44 pm

Hey Duke....

I dont like chris young either..... using the same logic of why i dont like weeks

[ June 13, 2008, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: TheFoot ]

eddiejag · Post by **eddiejag** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:09 am

Soto that would be me , Eddie G.In Vegas 3 i grabbed Soto in the 11th round pick 11, Duke you took Joba round 11 pick 3.I also got Soto in round 11 in the Super and he's been just amazing.I usally dont draft guys like this but in the 11th round the reward risk part was just worth the chance. I also grabbed the loved Chris Young in the 4th round pick 5 which i thought was great value at the time he went much higher in other drafts.

Ive enjoyed this post since its the guys in my draft and agree with much said.I still thought i had a decent draft but its not showing , YET.

rkulaski · Post by **rkulaski** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:33 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Young

.299 6-32 51 runs 4sb

DeRosa

.313 8-35 40 runs 3 sb

Whoooohooooooooo You'd be winning one cat plus one extra steal - for a pick 20 rds earlier!!!

... and Young is pretty much doing the best he could possibly be doing; taking a guy like him in Rd 5 isn't playing to win, it's playing not be lose. Wow...good answer... we got DeRosa off of waiver wire in week 1 for $30. Although it appears DeRosa is having a career year right now. Lots of good posts here on both sides. In regards to it being difficult to make up batting avg later in the draft, do you think it's harder to make up batting avg or speed later in the draft ? During the season using FAAB? In the main event, we're tyring to make up ground in steals....in one of my satellites, I have both Young and Weeks (big mistake in hindsight), I'm last in batting avg (.253 avg) and feel it will be impossible to even finish middle of the pack in this category. I think I'd rather chase speed.

[ June 14, 2008, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Hitless ]

rkulaski · Post by **rkulaski** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:06 am

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

quote:Originally posted by TheFoot:

When you look at some of the better young 2B in baseball Aaron Hill, Ian Kinsler, Kelly Johnson, even Howie Kendrick ( even though he cant stay healthy) are all the same age as Rickie Weeks , And over the last 3 or 4 years have all shown some kind of marked improvement. More then a Rickie Weeks.

If I had to compare Weeks to anyone it would be Josh Barfield. Both players are the same age. The both have a world of talent , but neither one can play consistent enough to improve the stat line. Hey Mr. Strikeout guy....Has Weeks made any improvements in cutting down his strikeouts this year? Maybe you haven't even looked....Kinsler was drafted before him....Hill's hurt, Kendrick has been hurt, and Johnson is hardly blowing away the field away. [/QUOTE]If we're going to take missed time into account, then Weeks will be at the bottom of this list in 2 to 3 weeks. And there is no guarantees Weeks is even back by June 22nd. Kinsler was picked earlier but still providing better value. Kendrick is back healthy and hitting in the middle of the lineup. Hill has been symptom free for 5 days now and could be back this week. Johnson has .283 avg, 6 HR, 6 steals. He could make a run at 20-20, no? Maybe 18hr-16steals with a 100runs? I liked Weeks entering the year but he could rank last among these 2B guys when the 2008 season is over.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:01 am

2B values:

(draft rd) / dollar value

(1) Chase Utley +46

(4) Ian Kinsler +36

(10) Dan Uggla +31

(5) Michael Young +15

(1) Jimmy Rollins +14

(24) Mark DeRosa +13

(15) Kaz Matsui +11

(10) Kelly Johnson +8

(5) Rickie Weeks +6

(16) Dustin Pedroia +4

(12) Stephen Drew +4

(19) Mark Ellis +3

(9) Howie Kendrick +2

(12) Jhonny Peralta -1

(11) Ty Wigginton -3

(12) Aaron Hill -4

(10) Jeff Kent -6

(15) Freddy Sanchez -12

(4) Robinson Cano -15

(Adjusted for number of weeks played, so value is based on how they've performed on the field, no penalty for DL time).

[ June 14, 2008, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:25 am

This should be the Robinson Cano thread. He is THE middle IF bust of '08.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:40 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

This should be the Robinson Cano thread. He is THE middle IF bust of '08. He's off to a horrible start...but he was a solid 2nd half player last season, and I've got my fingers crossed.

Not sure why he's playing so poorly...could be he feels the pressure.

~Lance