Stock Market

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:12 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Can't keep our current constitution if we unify, now can we?

what constitution?

NorCalAtlFan · Post by **NorCalAtlFan** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:17 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by Top Dawg:

The trillions that will be spent will help resolve the current problems. what happened to letting bad businesses fail? these "trillions" of dollars are not free. someone has to repay them. just like the banks were overleveraged, the US government is overleveraged. the banks failed. is the US government next? serious stuff. [/QUOTE]I don't agree with Gekko or Gekko part deux often, but this I agree 100% with. It sickens me the same a$$hats that lead these companies down into the toilet are allowed to remain in power and continue to f*ck up. If I went out of business tomorrow, there would be no rush to bail me out. And I wouldn't expect it. Oh well.

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:23 am

GoBabyGo · Post by **GoBabyGo** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:06 pm

IMHO, the Banks are probably insolvent, the FED is printing USD 24/7, Unemployment is north of 10% easy (The BS number we are given does not include people off the rolls, 1099 people, self employed and all the people who work off the books),500+ trillion in derivatives outstanding (timebomb) and the PLunge Protection Team (Presidential Group on Financial Markets) is propping up the Markets daily. (Just look at the spikes daily). SO the solution is spend Trillions we DO NOT have and build bridges to Nowhere that produce NOTHING ! Great concept kick the can down the street another month or two as they continue to fleece this nation. There is a reason Madoff gets to live in his 7 million dollar apartment while if you steal 100 bucks at the local 7 eleven they throw you in the slammer. IMHO the whole market is one large Ponzi Scheme just like the banking system.

Isn't it amazing the problem, the root cause of the evil is the FEDERAL RESERVE (private bank) and yet the MSM like CNBS and the rest NEVER speak badly about it NEVER they praise this corrupt institution.

Stay safe because imho it is only going to get worse I do not see a catalyst in sight.

P.S. When you all get a chance youtube "GEORGE CARLIN AMERICA DREAM" folks he was trying to educate us with his comedy. A true patriot may he rest in peace.

PEACE !

GYOZTES · Post by **GYOZTES** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:26 pm

You can thank Ronald Reagan and trickle down economics for the mess we are in today. The solution to our financial problems-TAX the SUPERRICH-tax their income and their wealth-the rich have brainwashed Americans into believing that poor people have soaked the middle class while the wealthy have PLUNDERE

GYOZTES · Post by **GYOZTES** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:28 pm

PLUNDERED us dry-wake up people-otherwise there will be severe consequences to pay.

GYOZTES · Post by **GYOZTES** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:30 pm

my post is at the bottom of page 7 and the top of page 8

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:18 am

Originally posted by GYOZTES:

You can thank Ronald Reagan and trickle down economics for the mess we are in today. The solution to our financial problems-TAX the SUPERRICH- I would prefer a flat tax rate. Everyone should pay the same rate. No more (or severely limit) deductions. No more mortgage deduction, which is one of the incentives behind interest only loans that helped create this problem.

I would also consider a national sales tax paired with the flat tax. At least on some items.

GYOZTES · Post by **GYOZTES** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:35 am

I agree with a flat tax with no deductions. We should still be imposing a tax on both the wealth and income of the wealthiest 1%. They have reaped huge gains since Reagan at the expense of the middle class and poor. Even with the taxes, they would still be superwealthy-it is time to give back. Will it happen? Maybe when people wake up-I see that happening-slowly.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:27 am

Originally posted by GYOZTES:

Even with the taxes, they would still be superwealthy-it is time to give back. I have to ask "why"? It is an honest question and I do not mean to offend, but the statement does not make sense to me.

What did they do to be penalized? Did they do something illegal? In my opinion, we are supposed to be governed by the Constitution of the United States. I have read the seven original Articles and the twenty-seven amendments and I haven't been successful locating the relevant provision that gives Congress the power to redistribute wealth.

I am not sure what you mean by superwealthy (who by the way constitute the most active investors and recyclers of wealth), but popular vernacular today seems to target those with $200k plus of modified income. Per the 2006 numbers (the latest I believe that are available in IRS Publication #1304), those that make $200k plus per year modified income earned less than 39% of the income, but already pay more than 50% of the taxes. They are such an easy political target because they make up less than 4% of the returns filed. Think of it. In essence, you already have less than 4% of the population footing 50%+ of the inidividual tax bill!

Those that earn over $1.0m modified paid 26% of the taxes yet earned less than 5% of the total and make up about 1/3 of 1% of the tax returns. 1/3 of 1% of the population already pays 26% of the bill!

Be careful my friend, you may kill the goose that is already laying the golden egg!

GYOZTES · Post by **GYOZTES** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:32 am

way off wayne-the superwealthy are ones that earn millions in income and are worth hundreds of millions and billions of dollars. The wealthy at the top LOVE people like you protecting their wealth they have generated by exploiting the middle class and the poor as well as other countries. Lots of people think just like you-this is why we are approaching economic disaster.

GYOZTES · Post by **GYOZTES** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:33 am

by the way-redistribute wealth? The wealthy have been the biggest benefactors in the transfer of wealth-it is called corporate welfare

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:28 am

Originally posted by GYOZTES:

way off wayne-the superwealthy are ones that earn millions in income and are worth hundreds of millions and billions of dollars. The wealthy at the top LOVE people like you protecting their wealth they have generated by exploiting the middle class and the poor as well as other countries. Lots of people think just like you-this is why we are approaching economic disaster. Wow! Ok, Professor, I just never realized how much of a pawn I am.

I am willing to try and learn, however. Is this exploitation general or do you have something specific in mind? Again, I am looking for something illegal or immoral. Just being successful or even the most successful is not a crime or even immoral. Providing the job rather than being the person asking for the job is not a crime.

I am not aware that anyone is guaranteed (under providence or the US Constitution) anything other than a fair and equal chance to earn a living and take themselves as far as their individual talents and desires take them. Yes, I guess coming from a VERY modest background, rural south Georgia, public schools, paying for my own college, I think people generally do, especially in this country, have a fair and equal chance. If you earn it, you should keep it. If you screw up and cannot make the money you desire because you did not expend the effort to make yourself skilled or marketable, that is your burden, not the rich guy down the block.

It is just too easy I think to blame the "rich guy down the block". They are too easy a target in our Republic because they make up such a small voting pool. In many cases, they are already triple taxed anyway (personal income tax, corporate earnings and dividend taxes, and estate taxes). The "class warfare" arguement is weak on its merits and trite in its practice.

And we are approaching economic disaster (questionable, but a lot of people are hurting) because of lack of fiscal responsibility within the hallowed halls of Congress (and to a disappointing extent our last President) and lack of personal responsibility among the electorate. Most of the ills are a direct result of the bumbling legislations already passed and it does not seem logical that more of the same will cause a correction. I am not aware of any case of more taxation actually IMPROVING an economy.

I will make it easy. Let's have less government and less taxes. I will take care of what is behind my picket fence and since we are, in a vast majority of cases, endowed with equal ability and access, I will expect my fellow Americans to take care of what is behind theirs. What could be more fair than that?

BTW, it is not my intent to offend. I do have what I believe to be an informed opinion and do enjoy a good discussion. If this is not the place, perhaps we can take it off line, or if I am not a person you wish to have this discussion with, OK too.

"If we meet again, we shall smile. If not, why then, this parting was well made."

Julius Caesar

William Shakespeare

GYOZTES · Post by **GYOZTES** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:41 am

you sound like you have been well fed on the right-wing soundbites. Sadly, you have been grossly misinformed. If you would like to read a book that will open your eyes read Howard Zinn-A People's History of the United States. It will go against everything you have been brainwashed with. By the way, just because one has the power to influence the law, that does not make things "okay" because you have not broken the law.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:53 am

Originally posted by GYOZTES:

you sound like you have been well fed on the right-wing soundbites. Sadly, you have been grossly misinformed. If you would like to read a book that will open your eyes read Howard Zinn-A People's History of the United States. It will go against everything you have been brainwashed with. By the way, just because one has the power to influence the law, that does not make things "okay" because you have not broken the law. I look forward to the read again.

As to the soundbites comment, a bit unfair. I put numbers behind my arguments and reference the US Constitution. And you?

Oh, and if you really want to be disgusted with me, I do not believe in global warming either (Michael Crichton, State of Fear and www.petitionproject.org ).

[ February 05, 2009, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Edwards Kings ]

GYOZTES · Post by **GYOZTES** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:06 am

My opinions are based on my 20+years I have been in the business world and my readings which have been primarily about politics and history. Statistics are very very misleading-you should know that-you are an accountant.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:31 am

Originally posted by GYOZTES:

My opinions are based on my 20+years I have been in the business world and my readings which have been primarily about politics and history. Statistics are very very misleading-you should know that-you are an accountant. Funny how we have the same interests (history and politics), and long careers (being a CPA is actually my second career as I had a 10+ year other career first), but come to diametrically opposite positions. And I agree, statistics are very misleading which is why I presented mine in context.

I tell you what, since this is a baseball board, I will move on. You can take your comfort in Zinn (he is very well known in Georgia but his is a rather too myopic view for my taste as he even felt the founding fathers started the American Revolution as a distraction for poor people to stop popular movements), and I will continue to be the pawn of "the Man".

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:02 pm

Originally posted by rucrew2:

quote:Originally posted by GYOZTES:

You can thank Ronald Reagan and trickle down economics for the mess we are in today. The solution to our financial problems-TAX the SUPERRICH- I would prefer a flat tax rate. Everyone should pay the same rate. No more (or severely limit) deductions. No more mortgage deduction, which is one of the incentives behind interest only loans that helped create this problem.

I would also consider a national sales tax paired with the flat tax. At least on some items. [/QUOTE]I too would greatly prefer a flat tax. You can eliminate all deductions if you want. I still stand behind that post you Quoted yesterday from November or December. i think it still is accurate at least imho. I know KJ takes offense to the Zimbabwe referance and I certainly hope that is an exageration. I do think we will have an overall debasement of the $ which will lead to VERY high inflation. I also agree with the buy gold idea. I've never been a gold bug and actually never thought I'd ever say that, but it seems a sensible precaution to own at least some gold to retain future buying power just in case I'm right about that wild inflation. I don't agree with the Ronald Reagan bashing. Again imho, while I dislike almost all politicians of either party, Ronnie was the only president of my lifetime that really understood economics and was largely responcible for the prosparity of the 80's and 90's. yes he made mistakes. I make them too. I'd take him back in a heartbeat. Bet we wouldn't have all the bailouts if he were president now. Just my 2 cents again when not asked for.

Ratbeer · Post by **Ratbeer** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:04 pm

It all comes down to a pretty simple natural progression: Innovation . . . Legislation . . . Innovation. . . This will always lead to boom/bust cycles. In the case of financial markets the creation of new "products" will create great wealth for a few and trickle down to some. Once the tipping point is reached the inevitable legislation takes away the possibility of unnatural gains, and the next group both cleans up the mess and moves on to the next great thing. What's next for us? Infrastructure, Nanotechnology, Tulips? I don't know, I just know the rich will find it first, because they will create it. I am not as well read as some of the other posters on either side of the arguments listed above. I am just happy to live in a country where the possibility (or fear) of lower lows creates the opportunity of higher highs. I hope you are all navigating the current storm.

Now onto the next problem, it's the 14th round, three picks and I'm up. I still need a corner, but I love this SP. . .

GoBabyGo · Post by **GoBabyGo** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:19 am

Folks its not about boom and bust cycles its simply about manipulation. You really believe what is happening in the economy is a cycle? Maybe but I believe its all by DESIGN ! Yes by DESIGN. By the real power, the FEDERAL RESERVE (a private institution that is neither FEDERAL nor has has any RESERVES). They created the problem and NOW THEY HAVE THE SOLUTION you watch. I suggest you all watch this Documentary ASAP and understand what is happening. You will start to understand why they WANT THESE BAILOUTS!! How do you explain in the last bailout Sen. Diane Feinstein claims she receieved over 90,000 calls to her office with about 80,000+ against it and only a few for it yet she voted get this YES??? Are you F'in kidding me? These are representatives of the PEOPLE?

Here it is enjoy it and spread it probably is the #1 watched Google video (Note Google has stopped and turned back the counter UNREAL!! I wonder why)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3867390173

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:30 am

Originally posted by GoBabyGo:

Folks its not about boom and bust cycles its simply about manipulation. You really believe what is happening in the economy is a cycle? Maybe but I believe its all by DESIGN ! Yes by DESIGN. By the real power, the FEDERAL RESERVE (a private institution that is neither FEDERAL nor has has any RESERVES). They created the problem and NOW THEY HAVE THE SOLUTION you watch. I suggest you all watch this Documentary ASAP and understand what is happening. You will start to understand why they WANT THESE BAILOUTS!! How do you explain in the last bailout Sen. Diane Feinstein claims she receieved over 90,000 calls to her office with about 80,000+ against it and only a few for it yet she voted get this YES??? Are you F'in kidding me? These are representatives of the PEOPLE?

Here it is enjoy it and spread it probably is the #1 watched Google video (Note Google has stopped and turned back the counter UNREAL!! I wonder why)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3867390173 Oh no, not more of this misinformed Federal Reserve crap. Do you guys really believe every emotion-grabbing video you see on the Internet?

:rolleyes:

GoBabyGo · Post by **GoBabyGo** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:45 am

KJ Duke:

This video is just one, money masters is another one. You can believe what you like. I been there, I understand its hard to believe. We all have a belief system and when something like this shakes us to our core its hard to accept. Why because the Mainstream Boob Tube NEVER EVER speaks in a negative light about the FED. The FED is the almighty.

You believe what you will but before you make a decision about something do your own research. That is all I ask, I have done mine. But never believe what the MEDIA tells you nor obiously what I say without ever researching a topic. The internet is the great equalizer and a threat to the crooks running this country that is why I use it.

GoBabyGo · Post by **GoBabyGo** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:51 am

P.S As we speak just saw the Market (Casino) was already up 115 pts. Now common sense would tell you that after WORSE jobs report in what 35+ years and an unemployment rate of 7.6% (Based on GUMBERMINT numbers) the market would be down. Smells like the PPT team is at play again boys becareful imho.

Great Financial Discussion site probably best on the net is:

www.tickerforum.org

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:08 am

KJ Duke;

Do you have any guess as to how much, if any, the impact of institutional investing (401k,IRA etc) has had on the market? My guess is that the volume is way down. I know I went from 90/10 stock/cash to 50/50.

Also, just wondering. In “normal” times, does the market move unnaturally on certain days of the month just because of institutional investing?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:14 am

Nothing ever just happens anymore. Its always some devious force at work.

One question:

Who is conspiring to ruin Ben Sheets career?

He can't have these injuries himself. I can't go to tv for the truth. Yeah, I'll find the info on the internet, but wait, what if the evil doers planted information there that says that it's just Sheets body thats breaking down? What is a guy to do? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The truth is out there somewhere.