Stock Market

[KJ Duke]

Bull markets usually start in stealth mode. The indices are loaded with dead weight financial stocks. And the Dow is practically all dead weight. Market breadth has been better (rather than worse) than those indices would suggest, another positive change in the technical character of the market.

[Navel Lint]

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Bull markets usually start in stealth mode. The indices are loaded with dead weight financial stocks. And the Dow is practically all dead weight. Market breadth has been better (rather than worse) than those indices would suggest, another positive change in the technical character of the market. A/D slightly up since Nov on NYSE, not so with NASDAQ and the volume is still down.



Again, I hope your right.

[Vander]

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Can I use the TRUMP card on you when looking at the European-Union...or do I have to wait until it's too late and we have a North American Union?



"The combining of national government started with the European Union...that union started with trade agreements, then a common currency..."The Euro"...and now a European parliament that is feverishly passing laws that override the laws of the member nations."



"Now it's North America's turn...building on the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), the NAFTA section of the commerce department is busy drafting laws and regulations for a North American Union...a union of Canada, America and Mexico."



~Stan Jones (Montana)



I know this isn't your territory...but these are the issues I worry about.



~Lance I wouldn't worry about this one for now. Obama and the Dem majority would rather lean toward protectionism and move away from nafta than expand it. I'm all for free trade, but would draw the line as far as coming together as one big N. America block. I fully support nafta. I'd like to see it extended to other countries especially in S. America, at least the ones not controlled or heavily influenced by uncle Hugo. Protectionist policies had much to do with the great depression. I hope not to go there. I would also hope to keep Mexico and Canada, Mexico and Canada, not part of a common currency or states 51 and 52. Little or no chance of that however so I think you can put that worry to bed for now.

[KJ Duke]

Originally posted by rucrew2:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Bull markets usually start in stealth mode. The indices are loaded with dead weight financial stocks. And the Dow is practically all dead weight. Market breadth has been better (rather than worse) than those indices would suggest, another positive change in the technical character of the market. A/D slightly up since Nov on NYSE, not so with NASDAQ and the volume is still down.



Again, I hope your right.

[/QUOTE]Take out the banks and what do you see?

[Navel Lint]

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by rucrew2:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Bull markets usually start in stealth mode. The indices are loaded with dead weight financial stocks. And the Dow is practically all dead weight. Market breadth has been better (rather than worse) than those indices would suggest, another positive change in the technical character of the market. A/D slightly up since Nov on NYSE, not so with NASDAQ and the volume is still down.



Again, I hope your right.

[/QUOTE]Take out the banks and what do you see? [/QUOTE]You can parse sectors if you wish. Don’t know where we’d be without the banks (and I mean that in every way possible). However, then you are starting to become one of the people in the video’s that you have ripped (mostly rightfully so), that write the narrative and then find the facts to back up the story.



Again, I’m not disagreeing with you. It just might be early to suggest that the market has started to turn.

[KJ Duke]

Parse sectors if I wish ... of course, how else would I invest? A monkey can buy the index.

[sportsbettingman]

Is this more fact than fiction?







~Lance



[ February 11, 2009, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]

[KJ Duke]

What is the point of the chart, Lance?

[sportsbettingman]

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

What is the point of the chart, Lance? I understand you do not like him, but he's the source of my understanding on this issue...







"That has gone "just below" 1.0.



What is this?



I could go through the derivation of how money supply works in a fractional reserve monetary system (any), but won't, because most readers would have their eyes glaze over.



The important part of this graph is what it denotes. Bernanke has lost control of "N" (or velocity), which is the actual knob that he is trying to diddle when borrowing rates are changed (and in fact its the market that sets that, despite his protests.)



In fact the most useful tool in The Fed's box in terms of influencing monetary policy is the soapbox, that is, jawboning (whether it be by cajoling or threatening.)



The problem with an M1 multiplier below one is that the effect of printing money is of course multiplied by the velocity. That is, if you print up $10 into the economy the impact it has on economic activity depends on how many times that $10 circulates in a given amount of time. The more it circulates the higher the impact and the more your efforts do for the economy.



The bad news is that when the multiplier is less than one the more money you spew into the economy the worse the impact, as you get less for each additional dollar.



If you remember the "GDP for each dollar of debt" graph....







M1's multiplier going below 1 strongly implies (but does not yet prove) that we have reached that "zero hour".



Why? Because all money is in fact debt; this is inherent in all modern monetary systems.



When Bernanke "creates" money he is doing so against an asset - that is, he is issuing debt. A Federal Reserve Note (whether electronic or paper) is in fact effectively a bond of zero maturity and indefinite expiration against the future tax collection capacity of The United States.



That is, it's a treasury bond (via a circuitous route)



The paradox that Bernanke is in danger of discovering (the hard way) is the paradox of a pilot who finds himself in a flat spin. As the ground approaches he wants to pull back on the stick but if he does so, the spin simply tightens as the wings are not producing lift - the angle of attack is too high, not too low. As such if he does what his brain screams at him to do instinctively, he dies.



Or the scuba diver who sucks on the reg and gets nothing. Your instinct is to hold your breath and kick for the surface. If you do it you die.



In both cases your only hope of survival is to do exactly the opposite of your instinct. In the case of the pilot you must not only give counter-rudder (to stop the rotation) but also push the stick forward. In the case of the diver you must exhale that last breath you have in your lungs, knowing there are no more in the tank while you kick to ascend.



If you succumb to instinct you are dead. Really dead, as in splat (or exploded lungs.)



Bernanke is effectively in the same box. The foundation of his entire thesis as a banker is that a central bank can always reverse a deflation by printing money. Unfortunately as he has done so velocity has fallen and the multiplier has now gone below 1. If this induces him to do even more of what caused this decrease there is a very real risk that the actual market reaction will be to tighten the monetary flat spin.



This is because the underlying problem in the economy isn't the lack of debt (money) in the system. It is that there is too much debt of all sorts, and since money is in fact a form of debt, you can't fix the problem by playing helicopter drop!



As I have said for more than a year the only way out is to force the bad debt out into the open and default it. Yes, this will produce bankruptcies - lots of them, including some for "inconvenient" people like Paulson's buddies on Wall Street.



But until and unless that happens adding more debt to the system depresses the multiplier effect of that debt on circulation further, and harms, rather than helps the situation.



I don't expect our government officials to understand the math on this, nor would trying to go through it help 99% of the readers, but unfortunately, mathematics is the only true science - and you can't twist it, no matter how hard you try.



Bernanke knows this at an intellectual level, just as the diver - or pilot - knows that if he holds his breath (or pulls the stick) he is going to die.



The question now becomes whether Bernanke can overcome not only instinct but also political pressure to do the wrong thing and instead use his intellect - and the math - to do the right thing.



What is the right thing? Paradoxially, it is to withdraw liquidity and by doing so force the bad debt into the open where it does (and must) default.



How far can the above ratio contract before we cross an "event horizon" from which there is no escape?



I don't know.



But I do know that there is a "too late" point, as there is for all such things, and that we are approaching it, as I have been saying for months.



BTW, evidence that Bernanke's Monetary Flat Spin is already impacting the economy in ways that may do critical (if not fatal) damage was found this morning in the Case-Schiller numbers. Everyone, including Bernanke, was expecting the rate of home price declines to start to slow in the second half of the year. Instead, they accelerated.



We're in uncharted territory folks, and the forecast is for dark-and-stinky storms.



Buckle up."



Rip away, KJ...you teach me as much as ole' Karl!



~Lance

[KJ Duke]

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:



The important part of this graph is what it denotes. Bernanke has lost control of "N" (or velocity), which is the actual knob that he is trying to diddle when borrowing rates are changed (and in fact its the market that sets that, despite his protests.)

True, for now he has. This is why the dollar has remained strong and the economy has yet to budge. This chart reflects that a) consumers are starting to save, and b) banks are drawing down loans. Seems like this is what he wants later in his rant, but here he doesn't like it.



Originally posted by sportsbettingman:



In fact the most useful tool in The Fed's box in terms of influencing monetary policy is the soapbox, that is, jawboning (whether it be by cajoling or threatening.)

Not the Fed's most useful tool, especially now, as is being proved. It can have an impact but it needs to be backed up with action. Greenspan was good at jawboning, a weakness for Ben.



Originally posted by sportsbettingman:



The problem with an M1 multiplier below one is that the effect of printing money is of course multiplied by the velocity. That is, if you print up $10 into the economy the impact it has on economic activity depends on how many times that $10 circulates in a given amount of time. The more it circulates the higher the impact and the more your efforts do for the economy.



The bad news is that when the multiplier is less than one the more money you spew into the economy the worse the impact, as you get less for each additional dollar.

This chart shows exactly what I've been talking about, and what everyone knows, that banks are soaking up liquidity and not lending.



Originally posted by sportsbettingman:



M1's multiplier going below 1 strongly implies (but does not yet prove) that we have reached that "zero hour".



Why? Because all money is in fact debt; this is inherent in all modern monetary systems.



When Bernanke "creates" money he is doing so against an asset - that is, he is issuing debt. A Federal Reserve Note (whether electronic or paper) is in fact effectively a bond of zero maturity and indefinite expiration against the future tax collection capacity of The United States.

And here is where he begins to steer you into the ditch. Money is NOT in fact debt. Money is an exchange medium. Debt is debt. This is just one reason I don't like him - he'll toss random, meaningless denningerisms in here and there for effect. :rolleyes:



To be clear, money is created by the Fed when it buys securities in open market operations - it pays for these securities with new funds that it credits to the seller of the security (this is how the Fed acomplishes most of its so-called "printing or creating new money"). Thus when money is created, the Fed receives as asset in exchange for the money. This differs from government debt which is created when Treasury issues bonds to pay for goods and services.



Originally posted by sportsbettingman:



The paradox that Bernanke is in danger of discovering (the hard way) is the paradox ...



In both cases your only hope of survival is to do exactly the opposite of your instinct. In the case of the pilot you must not only give counter-rudder (to stop the rotation) but also push the stick forward. In the case of the diver you must exhale that last breath you have in your lungs, knowing there are no more in the tank while you kick to ascend.



If you succumb to instinct you are dead. Really dead, as in splat (or exploded lungs.)



~Lance Unneccesary, distracting analogies to equate the simple balancing act of controlling money supply with death and injury. You could use the same analogies, I suppose, for anything anyone tries to do that requires balancing different elements to control an outcome. Only reason for all of this is to try and illicit emotional response from reader. Did it work?



Originally posted by sportsbettingman:



Bernanke is effectively in the same box. The foundation of his entire thesis as a banker is that a central bank can always reverse a deflation by printing money. Unfortunately as he has done so velocity has fallen and the multiplier has now gone below 1. If this induces him to do even more of what caused this decrease there is a very real risk that the actual market reaction will be to tighten the monetary flat spin.

~Lance A central bank CAN quite easily, by definition, print its way out of deflation. I don't get what his flat spin is suppose to be. Is that where we all die?



Originally posted by sportsbettingman:



This is because the underlying problem in the economy isn't the lack of debt (money) in the system. It is that there is too much debt of all sorts, and since money is in fact a form of debt, you can't fix the problem by playing helicopter drop!

~Lance The problem is that there is too much debt, agreed. But you can debase the currency (and the debt) with a helicopter drop, not that you'd want to.



Originally posted by sportsbettingman:



As I have said for more than a year the only way out is to force the bad debt out into the open and default it. Yes, this will produce bankruptcies - lots of them, including some for "inconvenient" people like Paulson's buddies on Wall Street.

~Lance Much debt will be defaulted, but it will happen over time. Forcing it to happen all at once, allowing a run on the banks and just letting it happen led to the Great Depression. You don't need (and don't want) to collapse the entire US economic system. Guys like this warn against economic collapse, doomsday, rioting, marshal law, and then they suggest an agenda that would in fact cause just that.



Originally posted by sportsbettingman:



But until and unless that happens adding more debt to the system depresses the multiplier effect of that debt on circulation further, and harms, rather than helps the situation.

The multiplier will contract until bank balance sheets are capitalized well enough to begin lending again, then the multiplier will rise. As it begins to accelerate the Fed will need to draw down some of that stimulus to keep the dollar from weakening. Denninger, Schiff and all have screamed doomsday about the dollar, but what they never tell you is that is just as easily controlled in reverse when the Fed decides to sell securities back into the marketplace (thereby redcuing money supply).



Originally posted by sportsbettingman:



I don't expect our government officials to understand the math on this, nor would trying to go through it help 99% of the readers, but unfortunately, mathematics is the only true science - and you can't twist it, no matter how hard you try.

Now he's just spewing it. Bernanke understands velocity and other such principles far better than Denny does. By calling math a "true science" I guess we then have to believe everything he says. This a logic "trick" - if I say A=B and you accept A then B must be true. A sure sign of a bullsh**er.



Originally posted by sportsbettingman:



Bernanke knows this at an intellectual level, just as the diver - or pilot - knows that if he holds his breath (or pulls the stick) he is going to die.



The question now becomes whether Bernanke can overcome not only instinct but also political pressure to do the wrong thing and instead use his intellect - and the math - to do the right thing.



What is the right thing? Paradoxially, it is to withdraw liquidity and by doing so force the bad debt into the open where it does (and must) default.

As wrong as wrong can possibly be. Now he wants it to be worse than the Great Deprssion.



Originally posted by sportsbettingman:



How far can the above ratio contract before we cross an "event horizon" from which there is no escape?



I don't know.



But I do know that there is a "too late" point, as there is for all such things, and that we are approaching it, as I have been saying for months.

The above ratio will reverse when banks have confidence in their balance sheets. That may take time, but his plan to withdraw liquidity would completely destroy our financial system, our place in the world, and our currency.



Originally posted by sportsbettingman:



BTW, evidence that Bernanke's Monetary Flat Spin is already impacting the economy in ways that may do critical (if not fatal) damage was found this morning in the Case-Schiller numbers. Everyone, including Bernanke, was expecting the rate of home price declines to start to slow in the second half of the year. Instead, they accelerated.

Here he goes again, citing a fact and then attributing such fact to supporting this theory. I accept "facts", I don't accept his causal theories.



Originally posted by sportsbettingman:



We're in uncharted territory folks, and the forecast is for dark-and-stinky storms.



~Lance Yes we are, and thank god no one takes guys like this seriously or we'd be headed for the dark ages.



[ February 11, 2009, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

[Raskol]

Speaking of deflation, what about A-Roid's value in the MLBC/5 draft?



[ February 11, 2009, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: Raskol ]

[sportsbettingman]

Good stuff, Kevin!



Two questions...



1-Exactly what money is printed or created digitally out of thin air by the Fed and put into circulation (through the banks) without interest being tacked onto it?



2-Where can I get some?



~Lance

[KJ Duke]

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Good stuff, Kevin!



Two questions...



1-Exactly what money is printed or created digitally out of thin air by the Fed and put into circulation (through the banks) without interest being tacked onto it?



2-Where can I get some?



~Lance 1) It's accomplished by buying securities, typically Treasury securities, but the Fed has been buying other securities of late to impact other debt markets too. If they buy mortgages, for example, this reduces the supply of them in the marketplace which helps push their prices up and interest rates down (and lower rates help stimulate new demand).



2) No one is getting anything for free. If you owned a Treasury bond and Ben offered to buy it from you, the money he paid you for it would be considered an increase in the money supply, aka Ben printing money. Now, if you just stick that money in your mattress, it would not have the "effect" of increasing the money supply, and it would depress the velocity of money ratio. Which is what the banks are doing right now.



But if later in the year you deciced to spend it as downpayment on a house, you'd kickstart the velocity because this new money would be used to hire workers and buy materials to build your house. And those workers' salaries and materials suppliers revenues then would be used to buy other goods, hence the money then would achieve a multiplier effect.



Now under the Denninger plan, he would not only stop printing money but withdraw it from the system. This would be accomplished by doing the opposite, selling securities on the Fed balance sheet to you or the member banks. In this case, Ben would be taking your money and effectively "retiring it", so it can't be spent on anything. This would increase the rate of downward pressure on the economy, further depress home and stock market values, create accelerating layoffs and massive runs on the banks - with absolute certainly drive us into a deep Depression with lightning speed.



[ February 11, 2009, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

[sportsbettingman]

Thanks KJ.



What's the name of that book you suggest I read again...I could search your posts for it, but you may have the title at hand. I'm going to Barnes & Noble tomorrow...may as well pick it up.



~Lance

[Gordon Gekko II]

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

with absolute certainly drive us into a deep Depression with lightning speed. so with denninger's plan, we get to the depression quick and begin to rebuild quick



under the same BS plans of the same BS people WHO GOT US IN THIS MESS, we get to a depression slower and begin to rebuild the economy slower (and with a lot less transparency). of course



this BS plan can only work if america is not 100% completely broke. take a look at the Federal debt to Federal income ratio. the Fed governement is overextended and continues to overextend. they are leveraging up as much as possible...JUST LIKE THE BANKS. just remember, every bubble bursts.



[ February 11, 2009, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko II ]

[KJ Duke]

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Thanks KJ.



What's the name of that book you suggest I read again...I could search your posts for it, but you may have the title at hand. I'm going to Barnes & Noble tomorrow...may as well pick it up.



~Lance Got a bunch of them laying around, not sure what I suggested.

[KJ Duke]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

with absolute certainly drive us into a deep Depression with lightning speed. so with denninger's plan, we get to the depression quick and begin to rebuild quick



under the same BS plans of the same BS people WHO GOT US IN THIS MESS, we get to a depression slower and begin to rebuild the economy slower (and with a lot less transparency). of course



[/QUOTE]Yes, we rebuild quick just like in the last Depression. That recovery took root after about 15 years, and only then because of WWII.



You're not better off destroying the system to start over. It may sound good, but it's the equivalent of solving the housing and employment problem by burning down everyone's home in the United States. Problem solved right? Everyone in the country would have a job - building houses, and no inventory overhang.



I've heard allowing a systemic failure would be like ripping away a bandaid instead of easing if off slowly. My analogy would instead be telling the doctor to cut your leg off at the knee to get rid of the pain in your broken ankle.



[ February 11, 2009, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

[Vander]

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Thanks KJ.



What's the name of that book you suggest I read again...I could search your posts for it, but you may have the title at hand. I'm going to Barnes & Noble tomorrow...may as well pick it up.



~Lance Just another suggestion when one wasn't asked for. but I am currently reading MR. Market miscalculates. by James Grant. He was a former panalist on wall street weel with Louis Rukeyser. Lou always gave him a hard time about being a gold bug and being too negative. The book was finished mid 2008. He clearly saw this coming long ago (the over borrowing and money debasement). and has made a living watching interst rates, fed actions, and the like. He's a bit nerdy (no kidding), but very smart. A true contrarian with a greater understanding of how money works than most. Won't teach you everything about finance, but I've found it intersting.

[Vander]

BTW good stuff KJ. You really have a firm understanding of how this all works.

[KJ Duke]

Originally posted by Vander:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Thanks KJ.



What's the name of that book you suggest I read again...I could search your posts for it, but you may have the title at hand. I'm going to Barnes & Noble tomorrow...may as well pick it up.



~Lance Just another suggestion when one wasn't asked for. but I am currently reading MR. Market miscalculates. by James Grant. He was a former panalist on wall street weel with Louis Rukeyser. Lou always gave him a hard time about being a gold bug and being too negative. The book was finished mid 2008. He clearly saw this coming long ago (the over borrowing and money debasement). and has made a living watching interst rates, fed actions, and the like. He's a bit nerdy (no kidding), but very smart. A true contrarian with a greater understanding of how money works than most. Won't teach you everything about finance, but I've found it intersting. [/QUOTE]Smart enough guy, very knowledgable, but hasn't been a very good market forecaster. I've also found his interviews more interesting than this book, a little dry there.



thx vander



[ February 11, 2009, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

[sportsbettingman]

Cut to the chase, Duke ...who are your most respected authors/orators/economists/forecasters, etc?



I'm thirsty for knowledge.



~Lance

[KJ Duke]

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Cut to the chase, Duke ...who are your most respected authors/orators/economists/forecasters, etc?



I'm thirsty for knowledge.



~Lance Lance, I'm not a guru follower because even the best would be fortunate to bat .700-.800, and there is a natural tendancy to believe too much in whoever has the hot hand - thus setting you up to believe in the guy who was right last time, rather than the guy who will be right next time.



That said, a couple names for the current times that I've found impressive for both their knowledge and viewpoints: Frank Veneroso (economist and fmr hedge fund analyst) and Chris Whalen (Institutional Risk Analytics).



[ February 11, 2009, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

[Gordon Gekko II]

sorry duke, i don't buy it.



most of the big banks are ALREADY BANKRUPT but are being propped up with monopoly money.



this mess was created by excess leverage and excess debt. now that consumer spending has gone down the shitter and the market is telling us our PRETEND economy needs to go down as well. however the government is doing exactly the thing that got us in this mess...excess leverage and excess debt.



look at the Federal Debt compared to Federal Income (ie Tax Revenue). with SS and MC entitlements ready to BUST THE BANK inb the near future, tell me how the Federal Debt will EVER get paid off.



THE US IS BROKE. F'N POLITICIANS RAN THIS COUNTRY INTO THE GROUND JUST LIKE THEIR BIG BANK FINANCIAL BUDDIES. GREED...YOU GOTTA LOVE IT.

[GoBabyGo]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

sorry duke, i don't buy it.



most of the big banks are ALREADY BANKRUPT but are being propped up with monopoly money.



this mess was created by excess leverage and excess debt. now that consumer spending has gone down the shitter and the market is telling us our PRETEND economy needs to go down as well. however the government is doing exactly the thing that got us in this mess...excess leverage and excess debt.



look at the Federal Debt compared to Federal Income (ie Tax Revenue). with SS and MC entitlements ready to BUST THE BANK inb the near future, tell me how the Federal Debt will EVER get paid off.



THE US IS BROKE. F'N POLITICIANS RAN THIS COUNTRY INTO THE GROUND JUST LIKE THEIR BIG BANK FINANCIAL BUDDIES. GREED...YOU GOTTA LOVE IT. Gekko:



I hardly post. What you just said is 150% correct in my book. Further I like to add that this is not a coincidence or unforeseen as the Mainstream media and all the ANALysts shuffled in and out of the likes of CNBS lead you to believe. (These people have billions at stake would they ever lie?) With their buy for the long term predictions. (Long term today is 10 minutes, why go to Vegas when the largest legalized Casino lies in NYC). Furthermore add the fact that the bankruptcy laws where significantly changed in 2005, No CEO's going to jail, and huge Bonuses being given to what you are saying INSOLVENT Banks and Brokerages and it adds up to ALL BY DESIGN as they fleece the American People.



Tiny Tim unveils his master plan to stimulate the economy and after months comes up with a GENERAL CONCEPTUAL OUTLINE with NO Details. Imagine my shock. All jawboning while the PPT (Plunge Protection Team) makes sure the Dow stays around 8,000 regardless of all the constant negative data and all the Pundits on TV are instructed to Shout its ALL PRICED IN, ITS ALL BAKED INTO THE CAKE. (We only had Jobless claims of 623,000 GREAT NEWS it was 8,000 better than expected lets party on!! Unreal) Yet they never ask how does all this debt get repaid? What happens when forgein countries like CHina refuse to accept USD/ buy treasuries? Will paper assets like stocks valued in USD denominations become near

worthless? Who can you trust?



Just this morning I heard people discussing how bruttle yesterday was at there firm as another round of layoffs began. I personally have been out of the market since October 2008 and do not see it getting better. Just look at your hometown and tell me how many vacant storefronts, office space and mall retail stores you see? That to me is a lead indicator. because who is going to re-occupy those stores? And how about the person who has to pay the Bank on that commercial mortgage? Domino effect? I pray everyday!



[ February 12, 2009, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: GoBabyGo ]

[Plymouth]

Don't get me wrong here, I am one of the last people to say something good about politicians and I also worked for Wells Fargo data processing for 38+ years before I retired a few years back.



Having said that, I find it very amusing to see so many people blame the politicians and the financial sector for our current dilemma. Hell, there are crooks every where and more still waiting to come out from under the next rock. But I didn't see many of us jumping up and down complaining about the nice ride we had over the last decade or two. No many of us spoke up and said "we have to stop this because it will crash one day", we just held on and rode the bull as long as we could because it was putting money in our pockets and now that the bull has thrown us to the ground, stomped on us, and we can see him snorting as he turns around and gets ready to make another run at us we are all jumping on the bandwagon to see who can complain the loudest.



In our small way we all contributed to this mess through our greed, credit card debt, buying more house then we could afford, and in general spending money like there was no tomorrow, well, tomorrow is today. You didn't have to spend all that money that the bank said you were qualified for when you went to get pre-approved for a mortgage, but a lot of people did and they ended up with more than they could afford. Greed and short term thinking. Now we all get punished, some more then others certainly but the best thing we can do now is like the old saying goes, "the first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is to stop digging". We need to suck it up and work to see what we can all do to help each other as we struggle through these hard times.