12-Team League = Ridiculous Totals

MGBMARTY · Post by **MGBMARTY** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:46 am

As someone who currently doing well in 12 teamer I totally agree with preference to 15 teamers.I guess the 12 teamer has some appeal to some but it is strange I got Fowler in FA for 188 and he is on my bench. Where in 15 teamer if you spec on the kid with high bid you are most likely going to use him right away much more thinking and planning involved. Quoting Dr. Zeuss 12 teamer is like green eggs and ham I do not like them ever said Sam I am Just an opinion

Marty

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:00 am

Originally posted by Beckett's A-K-Rowdy Aeros:

Gordon, you more or less sound like your salty because you weren't able to adapt your 15 team draft strategy down to 12 and aren't happy with the team you put together. Sure there will be more talent spread over 12 teams compared to 15 but if your such a superior drafter you should have attacked and stockpiled more talent then the other 11 teams. "some people can't put the time into fantasy sports that is required to succeed at a high level. those people play in leagues with less than 15 teams" i'm doing fine in the 12 teamers and will be there at the end. Next!

Beckett's A-K-Rowdy Aeros · Post by **Beckett's A-K-Rowdy Aeros** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:04 am

Then stop crying about the format..its an additional contest..so if you don't like it, then don't play it. Its like eating dessert after dinner..if your full, or don't like it, then don't eat it.

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:06 am

Originally posted by Beckett's A-K-Rowdy Aeros:

Then stop crying about the format..its an additional contest..so if you don't like it, then don't play it. Its like eating dessert after dinner..if your full, or don't like it, then don't eat it. the only person crying is YOU. i (and it looks like many others) are voicing their opinion that we think next year a 15 team on-line championship would work better than the 12 teamer.

and to quote YOU..."..so if you don't like it, then don't play it."

Dirt Dogs · Post by **Dirt Dogs** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:35 am

Your statement of if you dont like it dont play actually dosent work in this situation. Because their are prizes that are directly tied into the main event so you almost had to play it if you wanted to participate in the combined overall & the $5000 combined pointes prize. So we do have a say since it not a stand alone competition.

Dub · Post by **Dub** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:50 am

Its going to suck next year for the lifetime NFBC owner stats if they change to 15 teams. Any winner this year will have the dreaded asterisk next to his name:(

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:56 am

Originally posted by Dub:

Its going to suck next year for the lifetime NFBC owner stats if they change to 15 teams. Any winner this year will have the dreaded asterisk next to his name:( an "asterisk" only has power if YOU give it power. i'll take the 40K and wear a shirt that has an "asterisk" on it to next year's draft

Dub · Post by **Dub** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:05 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by Dub:

Its going to suck next year for the lifetime NFBC owner stats if they change to 15 teams. Any winner this year will have the dreaded asterisk next to his name:( an "asterisk" only has power if YOU give it power. i'll take the 40K and wear a shirt that has an "asterisk" on it to next year's draft [/QUOTE]yep- $40K will ease the pain!!

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:38 am

What we need to keep in mind is the 12tm Online Champ could become a nice feeder system into the 15 team events we love here.

We need to grow the 15 teamers here right? Or else we'll just cannibalize our own 390 every year.

If we get 200 new faces sampling the NFBC and if 25 of them join the Main Event next season then the 12tm OC was a success. Let's get them in the store with the SALE SALE SALE sign and eventually they'll move on back and buy the big ticket items

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:43 am

Originally posted by Dub:

Its going to suck next year for the lifetime NFBC owner stats if they change to 15 teams. Any winner this year will have the dreaded asterisk next to his name:( Why would we do that?? Sheesh. Wouldn't it make more sense to have separate NFBC Online Championship Lifetime Standings once we're into Year 2 and still keep our NFBC main event Lifetime Standings???

Beckett's A-K-Rowdy Aeros · Post by **Beckett's A-K-Rowdy Aeros** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:47 am

I'm new to NFBC, and doing the online championship..I'm hooked and will do the main next year...so I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:49 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:

Here are my numbers so far ***today*** on one of my online championship teams:

21 H

44 AB

.4773 BA

14 R

7 HR

23 RBI

0 SB

Still have a lot of at-bats to go, but sheesh, couldn't these guys steal ONE BASE???? Glenn, your headline for this thread has brought out a different beast than I think you intended (maybe not). Let's explain to the folks that the great day your 12-teamer had was offset by the fact that you entered the day 11th in your league. So it's not like your team is putting up these numbers EVERY day. It was a remarkable day. Yes, you can have an incredible day in the 12-team format, but it's not like EVERYONE is making a mockery of fantasy baseball in this format.

I love the 15-team format too, but to have a thread of naysayers to the 12-team format almost seems a little righteous to the readers and players. Both formats are competitive and difficult – as we learned last year in the two NFFC formats as well – and to nitpick either format doesn't seem to serve the contest well at all.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:53 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by Dub:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

ya, too many teams have too many good guys. i'm finding out those leagues are not my cup of tea.

if this were tennis - you would be considered a clay court "specialist."

[/QUOTE]some people can't put the time into fantasy sports that is required to succeed at a high level. those people play in leagues with less than 15 teams

[/QUOTE]C'mon GG, this is a silly, silly post. I still play in a lot of 12-team leagues and still find it VERY challenging. I don't see you saying the same thing about 12-team fantasy football contests.

I love all you guys and gals, but acting like you're far superior in the 15-team format than the 12-team format is silly. And it's silly to even read this. BOTH have their merits and ridiculing either format is embarrassing.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:54 am

Originally posted by eddiejag:

I dont like the 12 teams and hope we switch to 15 next year in the satelitte draft.Just not a fan of the 12 as everybody has all star team's. All NFBC Satellite Leagues are 15 teams. The NFBC Online Championship League will continue to be a 12-team format in the future. If everyone has an all-star team, then the key is to have the BEST all-star team, or am I missing something here?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:00 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

if greg is reading, how many brand new members signed up for the 12 team league this year and not the 15 team league, i.e., how much support did the on line championship event get from brand new players? The NFBC main event had an 80 percent return this year, which means that we had less than 80 first-time members joining the NFBC main event in 2009. Thank goodness for loyalty, but also realize as Quahogs said that we are competing against many of the same folks who love this 15-team format each year.

The NFBC Online Championship brought in 200+ first-time players. More than 200+ had never played even an NFBC Satellite League with us. They joined for the 12-team format and hopefully they will have success and enjoy the experience with us and maybe even try out our 15-team format someday. But the potential with this 12-team format is certainly greater than with the 15-team format, unfortunately.

Both are great. I don't get the reasoning for the elitist attitude of one and the slum recognition of the other. 12-team Mixed Leagues have been around much longer than the NFBC format and whether we like it or not, it is easily the most used format in fantasy football today. Hands down. Not 16-team Mixed Leagues, not 15-team Mixed Leagues, not AL-only or NL-only Auction Leagues. 12-team Mixed Leagues. That's what most folks play and that's why it made sense to make the NFBC Online Championship an affordable 12-team mixed league format.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:01 am

The point of the thread was to highlight how it's possible to accumulate "ridiculous totals" in a 12-team league. I've played in the NFBC Main Event since 2004, and never came close to a 10HR / 30RBI night. Does that mean that I'll have those kind of totals every night? Of course not.

We tend to like that to which we are accustomed. For the past 5 years, I have gotten used to scrapping and clawing for a 5th OF, utility, 7th starting pitcher, 2nd closer, etc. None of these are an issue in the 12-team league. I think that's the major difference that NFBC-vets have found.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:09 am

Originally posted by Dirt Dogs:

Your statement of if you dont like it dont play actually dosent work in this situation. Because their are prizes that are directly tied into the main event so you almost had to play it if you wanted to participate in the combined overall & the $5000 combined pointes prize. So we do have a say since it not a stand alone competition. Yes, and the Combined Standings prize is awarding the skills of the same owners who excel in both formats, which makes sense, doesn't it? Everyone on this thread is saying that the 12-teamer is a different beast, filled with stars and free agent lists loaded with players you get and then don't even use. Well, if you're such a good owner in that easy format, then you should be able to do well in the Combined Standings, correct?

Creating an online version of our main event or satellite leagues would certainly pigeon-hole the NFBC into its niche corner and nothing else, while the rest of America is playing a more familiar format. It's what folks want me to do in the NFFC, too, while the 12-team format gets bigger and bigger. It's stupid business and the parade to now move the Online Championship to 15 teams after seeing the demand we had for the format today is crazy and even an insult to Tom and me. I appreciate the opinions, but we've created something that has been well accepted, that as we have already seen will lead to new members in the NFBC main event next year and that has its unique strategies that over time will be mastered by the same folks who once thought the 15-team format was foreign to them.

Okay, I've said my peace on this one. Sorry to be a pain, but I guess the 600 participants of the Online Championship needed a voice against the loudest MB posters on a thread that wasn't started to bash the new format.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:10 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

If everyone has an all-star team, then the key is to have the BEST all-star team, or am I missing something here?

This is exactly right. I'd break it down like this:

12-team mixed leagues = All-Star teams

15-team mixed leagues = all starters, with an occasional platoon player

AL- / NL-only leagues = 4th/5th OFs, utility players and middle relievers prominently featured

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:12 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:

The point of the thread was to highlight how it's possible to accumulate "ridiculous totals" in a 12-team league. I've played in the NFBC Main Event since 2004, and never came close to a 10HR / 30RBI night. Does that mean that I'll have those kind of totals every night? Of course not.

We tend to like that to which we are accustomed. For the past 5 years, I have gotten used to scrapping and clawing for a 5th OF, utility, 7th starting pitcher, 2nd closer, etc. None of these are an issue in the 12-team league. I think that's the major difference that NFBC-vets have found. In the 12 team event, it seems like there will be a lot more roster mistakes each week. You might have too much depth at pitching or players of similar value which leads to wrong decisions. To me, it just a different kind of league. When the season plays out, it will be interesting to see how close the overall standings will be in September. A team need some speed might find it on the wire or find a pitcher that helps in September. In the 15 team event, the free agent pool is mighty thin the second half of the year.

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:18 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

if greg is reading, how many brand new members signed up for the 12 team league this year and not the 15 team league, i.e., how much support did the on line championship event get from brand new players? The NFBC main event had an 80 percent return this year, which means that we had less than 80 first-time members joining the NFBC main event in 2009. Thank goodness for loyalty, but also realize as Quahogs said that we are competing against many of the same folks who love this 15-team format each year.

The NFBC Online Championship brought in 200+ first-time players. More than 200+ had never played even an NFBC Satellite League with us. They joined for the 12-team format and hopefully they will have success and enjoy the experience with us and maybe even try out our 15-team format someday. But the potential with this 12-team format is certainly greater than with the 15-team format, unfortunately.

Both are great. I don't get the reasoning for the elitist attitude of one and the slum recognition of the other. 12-team Mixed Leagues have been around much longer than the NFBC format and whether we like it or not, it is easily the most used format in fantasy football today. Hands down. Not 16-team Mixed Leagues, not 15-team Mixed Leagues, not AL-only or NL-only Auction Leagues. 12-team Mixed Leagues. That's what most folks play and that's why it made sense to make the NFBC Online Championship an affordable 12-team mixed league format. [/QUOTE]Greg-

I really think it was the price point of the online event and the NFBC name which made it sell out. I believe you would have had the same total if the online event was 15 teams leagues. There just isn't anything out there that is on the same playing field.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:27 am

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

if greg is reading, how many brand new members signed up for the 12 team league this year and not the 15 team league, i.e., how much support did the on line championship event get from brand new players? The NFBC main event had an 80 percent return this year, which means that we had less than 80 first-time members joining the NFBC main event in 2009. Thank goodness for loyalty, but also realize as Quahogs said that we are competing against many of the same folks who love this 15-team format each year.

The NFBC Online Championship brought in 200+ first-time players. More than 200+ had never played even an NFBC Satellite League with us. They joined for the 12-team format and hopefully they will have success and enjoy the experience with us and maybe even try out our 15-team format someday. But the potential with this 12-team format is certainly greater than with the 15-team format, unfortunately.

Both are great. I don't get the reasoning for the elitist attitude of one and the slum recognition of the other. 12-team Mixed Leagues have been around much longer than the NFBC format and whether we like it or not, it is easily the most used format in fantasy football today. Hands down. Not 16-team Mixed Leagues, not 15-team Mixed Leagues, not AL-only or NL-only Auction Leagues. 12-team Mixed Leagues. That's what most folks play and that's why it made sense to make the NFBC Online Championship an affordable 12-team mixed league format. [/QUOTE]Greg-

I really think it was the price point of the online event and the NFBC name which made it sell out. I believe you would have had the same total if the online event was 15 teams leagues. There just isn't anything out there that is on the same playing field. [/QUOTE]Well, we had 55+ NFBC Satellite Leagues at good price points and those are 15-team leagues. At some point, how many 15-team leagues are too many? And again, the two different formats will bring out the best in each owner, so let's see who is all skill and who is all excuses.

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:28 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

C'mon GG, this is a silly, silly post. I still play in a lot of 12-team leagues and still find it VERY challenging. I don't see you saying the same thing about 12-team fantasy football contests.

I love all you guys and gals, but acting like you're far superior in the 15-team format than the 12-team format is silly. And it's silly to even read this. BOTH have their merits and ridiculing either format is embarrassing. i once thought that playing in a 12 team football league would be silly, but after having done it, it's not silly. i thought every team would be an all-star team. i found out they are not. i think it has to do with the amount of roster spots. 18 for your 14 team per league NFFC and 20 for your 12 team per league NBC contest. that means, in the nffc 252 players are rostered. in the nbc, 240 players are rostered. that's only an extra 12 players available in the faab pool.

for your baseball events, the 15 team per league nfbc, 450 players are rostered. in your 12 team per league online championship, only 360 players are rostered. that is an amazing 90 extra players available in the faab pool each week.

sometimes you don't know whether you like something or not until you try it. that was my intent with trying the online championship. as of right now, me no likey

maybe if rosters were expanded (much like you did when you downsized to the NBC football event) to 34 or 35 players would be a better fit. not sure.

if i'm reading some of the other posters correctly, they would not have joined the online championship unless you put extra carrots out there for them. the chance at the 75K bonus. the 5K for the best combined standings. Etc.

again, just my opinion, but the 12 teamers seem like the minor leagues to me.

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:30 am

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

Greg-

I really think it was the price point of the online event and the NFBC name which made it sell out. I believe you would have had the same total if the online event was 15 teams leagues. There just isn't anything out there that is on the same playing field. Agreed. if you had 15 team leagues you may have sold MORE online champ leagues

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:44 am

I don't think we would have sold more because the cap was 600 no matter what.

I can see why Greg didn't want ruin his 15 team satellite market by having a 15 team online event.

I don't agree with a larger roster size in the 12 team event. I think owners need to make tough decision in a different way. If you expanded four or five roster spots, you would haven't have to make as many tough cuts.

[ April 15, 2009, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: CC's Desperados ]

Joe Sambito · Post by **Joe Sambito** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:55 am

Me personally, I am reserving judgement on the 12-team until after the season. I agree that it is different. Not bad different, not good different, just different. I think that negative/arrogant SOB Doughboys posted it best, when he said the difference in FAAB is from a player I need to a player I want.