12-Team League = Ridiculous Totals

[GOD Loves You]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

Greg-



I really think it was the price point of the online event and the NFBC name which made it sell out. I believe you would have had the same total if the online event was 15 teams leagues. There just isn't anything out there that is on the same playing field. Agreed. if you had 15 team leagues you may have sold MORE online champ leagues [/QUOTE]There's no way the number comes close to 600 if it's a 15 team contest. Do you really think those 200 new members joined simply because it was "online"?



Why do you think the format for ESPN is 10 team leagues and the setup for CBS and Yahoo are 12 teamers???? It's not because people prefer the 15 team format. Look at how long it has taken the NFBC to get to 390 participants. If the main event was a 12 team format, the number of live drafters would probably be doubled by now. Do I dare compare the WCOFF to the NFFC?? More people prefer the "minor leagues".



Like Q said, it's a wonderful tool to convert those who prefer the 12 teamers into those who will play in 15 teamers. I prefer the 15 team format, but actually do find the 12 team leagues challenging because most owners do have stacked lineups and it keeps teams more involved with hopes of winning. Heck, in the 15 teamers, some teams might as well quit after the draft.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Originally posted by Joe Sambito:

Me personally, I am reserving judgement on the 12-team until after the season. I agree that it is different. Not bad different, not good different, just different. I think that negative/arrogant SOB Doughboys posted it best, when he said the difference in FAAB is from a player I need to a player I want.

[CC's Desperados]

Originally posted by GOD Loves You:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

Greg-



I really think it was the price point of the online event and the NFBC name which made it sell out. I believe you would have had the same total if the online event was 15 teams leagues. There just isn't anything out there that is on the same playing field. Agreed. if you had 15 team leagues you may have sold MORE online champ leagues [/QUOTE]There's no way the number comes close to 600 if it's a 15 team contest. Do you really think those 200 new members joined simply because it was "online"?



[/QUOTE]Yes....I bet most of those players came from CDM or Fantasy Jungle. Fantasy Jungle had 15 team leagues and CDM leagues are salary cap. The players were already playing in pay leagues with a similar price point. I don't think the online event got 200 new players who were playing for no stakes in ESPN and Yahoo. The new players were looking for something new and had the right price.

[Dub]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Dub:

Its going to suck next year for the lifetime NFBC owner stats if they change to 15 teams. Any winner this year will have the dreaded asterisk next to his name:( Why would we do that?? Sheesh. Wouldn't it make more sense to have separate NFBC Online Championship Lifetime Standings once we're into Year 2 and still keep our NFBC main event Lifetime Standings??? [/QUOTE]This was only meant in the event that you change the format to 15 team leagues and drop 12 teams leagues all together. Greg: if you read the posts-I am one who supports the idea of both formats.

[CC's Desperados]

Originally posted by GOD Loves You:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

Greg-



I really think it was the price point of the online event and the NFBC name which made it sell out. I believe you would have had the same total if the online event was 15 teams leagues. There just isn't anything out there that is on the same playing field. Agreed. if you had 15 team leagues you may have sold MORE online champ leagues [/QUOTE]Why do you think the format for ESPN is 10 team leagues and the setup for CBS and Yahoo are 12 teamers???? It's not because people prefer the 15 team format. Look at how long it has taken the NFBC to get to 390 participants. If the main event was a 12 team format, the number of live drafters would probably be doubled by now. Do I dare compare the WCOFF to the NFFC?? More people prefer the "minor leagues".



[/QUOTE]ESPN, Yahoo, and CBS choose the league size because it is easier to fill a smaller league. They really don't care or even think about which is better. They want to fill as many leagues as possible. They want as many eye balls on the web site as they can.



I think the price of the entry of the main event is what took it so long. I can't remeber hearing once in 6 years someone saying "I'd play in a High Stakes baseball league if there were only 12 teams".



As for the WCOFF and NFFC, the NFFC would be a lot bigger if it was the first high stakes event in football. Do you even follow the WCOFF or even have a feel for what their players think about their event?



The masses that play in the minors(free leagues) don't have the same commitment as the players here.

[Snord35]

All I can say is that I laugh when I see someone post a 12 team league is like a minor league or even say it's like college tennis vs mens! I for one like the 15 team leagues because they are easy to do well in. Right out of the gate you can mark off half the teams in your league just from their draft or at least tell yourself this team needs a lot of things to go his/her way. I.E. team has no closers, projected to be around 200 HR's, 100 SB's, or even a team that looks like it will be lucky to hit .260. Knowing how hard it is to get a closer who can get you 20+ saves from the FA pool or a guy that gets you 25+ HR's or SB's you can write these teams off for the most part.



Now in the 12 team leagues you can only write off a few teams but yet you know they can make their team a contender knowing they can fix some holes on their team from the FA pool. I would think the good fantasy players would be drooling for a 12 team league to show how good they really are.



One thing you find on a lot of 15 team league winners are great picks after round 20. Like last year a Volquez and E. Santana come to mind. In the 12 team leagues it will be how well you use your FAAB money on picking up players that give you great value for the season. Also last year top 10 round picks like Hamilton and Lincecum paid off nice in the 15 team format those guys would be going around rounds 10-13 in 12 team leagues last year so it still comes down to knowing your players and picking the guys who break out or put up big numbers again.



The fact that 12 team leagues have a better player pool is a great thing! More teams will be in the running for league championships and the overall winner will come down to more than just 2 or 3 teams in the last week.



Mark it down the top 10 for the overall in the online will have big turnover in the last week.

[Gordon Gekko II]

Originally posted by Snord35:

More teams will be in the running for league championships and the overall winner will come down to more than just 2 or 3 teams in the last week.



Mark it down the top 10 for the overall in the online will have big turnover in the last week. that means luck plays a larger role. trust me, i know that is a good thing for the majority of fantasy players.

[GOD Loves You]

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

quote:Originally posted by GOD Loves You:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

Greg-



I really think it was the price point of the online event and the NFBC name which made it sell out. I believe you would have had the same total if the online event was 15 teams leagues. There just isn't anything out there that is on the same playing field. Agreed. if you had 15 team leagues you may have sold MORE online champ leagues [/QUOTE]There's no way the number comes close to 600 if it's a 15 team contest. Do you really think those 200 new members joined simply because it was "online"?



[/QUOTE]Yes....I bet most of those players came from CDM or Fantasy Jungle. Fantasy Jungle had 15 team leagues and CDM leagues are salary cap. The players were already playing in pay leagues with a similar price point. I don't think the online event got 200 new players who were playing for no stakes in ESPN and Yahoo. The new players were looking for something new and had the right price. [/QUOTE]Shawn, I really think you are mistaken in your thinking. The 12 team mixed leagues are what the majority of the fantasy players in the world participate in, regardless of entry fees or not. ESPN and all of those other companies are simply catering to what the demand is; it has nothing to do with being able to fill the leagues.



I would love to know the actual percentage of the 200 who were from CDM or the Jungle. Why would they make the leap to the NFBC only after the 12 team format was unveiled??



I actually know a few people in the 200 and none of them were playing in the Jungle or CDM or anything of that ilk; they joined because it was the 12 team format they have been playing for years. I've also spoken with many and they will never join the NFBC because they are basically "afraid" of the 15 team format.



As far as the WCOFF, I do not need to follow it closely.......the numbers do not lie and as with those who are vocal about the event, the number pales in comparison to those who are mute, just like it is here and in the NFFC. Seriously, if the NFFC was first, it would still be behind in signups due to the format. I actually avoided the WCOFF because of the 12 team format, but you have to be kidding yourself if you do not think the league size is what drives all of those signups. If NBC actually promoted the NFFC, the 12 team online format would be HUGE!!!!!



Also, you're last statement about "commitment" and free leagues is sorta elitist, as many others in this thread have been. While I agree it could be somewhat true, you have no idea if it is or not. Before I found the NFBC, I couldn't find a fantasy baseball league to participate in, so like many others, I joined the free leagues on Yahoo. For a few summers, I had 6 different logins, with 4 teams associated with each one.....grand total of 24. Many of these were daily leagues and I put in a ton of work. Heck, one summer my computer crashed and I would go to the library every day or at least every other to run my teams.....running 24 leagues, for free, all at the library. I devoted many hours during the season and offseason as I do now, all for free......so to say people in those league don't have the same committment is wrong. Heck, I would venture so say a lot of those players in the free leagues watch more baseball than the majority of the players here, but because they don't know who Ron Shandler is doesn't mean they aren't as committed. C'mon, Shawn, you've drafted live.......there's many people in these events relying on those magazines(actually quite alarming) at the draft table just like those sitting at home playing in the free leagues.



Anways, it doesn't matter, Greg would be a fool to change the online championship to 15 teams. Recycling isn't good for the events.

[CC's Desperados]

Originally posted by GOD Loves You:

[QUOTE]

I would love to know the actual percentage of the 200 who were from CDM or the Jungle. Why would they make the leap to the NFBC only after the 12 team format was unveiled??

They did because of the price.



CDM Diamond Challenge



1st Prize Overall before this year $25,000



1st Prize Overall because of NFBC Online Event $50,000



Last year's entries were about 4,200.



I'm not sure this year, but a CDM player will have the answer.



Entry Fee $39.95



You have 12 Free pickups per year that cost $10.00 each or you can buy a 12 pack for $100.00



Weekly lineup changes cost $2.50 each on Sunday or $3.00 on Monday. It costs about $10-$15 per week to contend. Over say 20 weeks for teams that might quit after August 15, it will cost anywhere between $200 to $300. You add it all together and you get an entry fee of $360 to $450.



You have to beat 25 teams in your league to win $750 (I believe you can win more if you are a club member and you receive some other points which count for something), 2nd is $400+, 3rd $250, 4th $150, and $50 for 5th. You win $2000 if you beat 250 teams in your division and need to beat 4,000 plus to win the top prize.



So I can spend $350 and beat 11 other teams and win more money and only need to beat say 300 to win $20,000. I get to draft the team I want. I don't need to match 30 out of my 40 man roster.



The cost to play is the same or less with a better reward. I think it is a no brainer.



[ April 15, 2009, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: CC's Desperados ]

[Dub]

And don't forget that the 12 team leagues in the NFBC are still harder than 99% of other 12 team leagues because of the 2 catchers, 5 OFers, CI and MI which are absent in many home ESPN or Yahoo leagues.



I for one am glad Greg is going to keep this going.

[Gordon Gekko II]

Originally posted by Dub:

And don't forget that the 12 team leagues in the NFBC are still harder than 99% of other 12 team leagues because of the 2 catchers, 5 OFers, CI and MI which are absent in many home ESPN or Yahoo leagues.

come on! stop making good points!!! hopefully the 12 team format will grow on me as the season goes on.

[Disposable Heroes]

Originally posted by GOD Loves You:

quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

quote:Originally posted by GOD Loves You:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

Greg-



I really think it was the price point of the online event and the NFBC name which made it sell out. I believe you would have had the same total if the online event was 15 teams leagues. There just isn't anything out there that is on the same playing field. Agreed. if you had 15 team leagues you may have sold MORE online champ leagues [/QUOTE]There's no way the number comes close to 600 if it's a 15 team contest. Do you really think those 200 new members joined simply because it was "online"?



[/QUOTE]Yes....I bet most of those players came from CDM or Fantasy Jungle. Fantasy Jungle had 15 team leagues and CDM leagues are salary cap. The players were already playing in pay leagues with a similar price point. I don't think the online event got 200 new players who were playing for no stakes in ESPN and Yahoo. The new players were looking for something new and had the right price. [/QUOTE]Shawn, I really think you are mistaken in your thinking. The 12 team mixed leagues are what the majority of the fantasy players in the world participate in, regardless of entry fees or not. ESPN and all of those other companies are simply catering to what the demand is; it has nothing to do with being able to fill the leagues.



I would love to know the actual percentage of the 200 who were from CDM or the Jungle. Why would they make the leap to the NFBC only after the 12 team format was unveiled??



I actually know a few people in the 200 and none of them were playing in the Jungle or CDM or anything of that ilk; they joined because it was the 12 team format they have been playing for years. I've also spoken with many and they will never join the NFBC because they are basically "afraid" of the 15 team format.



As far as the WCOFF, I do not need to follow it closely.......the numbers do not lie and as with those who are vocal about the event, the number pales in comparison to those who are mute, just like it is here and in the NFFC. Seriously, if the NFFC was first, it would still be behind in signups due to the format. I actually avoided the WCOFF because of the 12 team format, but you have to be kidding yourself if you do not think the league size is what drives all of those signups. If NBC actually promoted the NFFC, the 12 team online format would be HUGE!!!!!



Also, you're last statement about "commitment" and free leagues is sorta elitist, as many others in this thread have been. While I agree it could be somewhat true, you have no idea if it is or not. Before I found the NFBC, I couldn't find a fantasy baseball league to participate in, so like many others, I joined the free leagues on Yahoo. For a few summers, I had 6 different logins, with 4 teams associated with each one.....grand total of 24. Many of these were daily leagues and I put in a ton of work. Heck, one summer my computer crashed and I would go to the library every day or at least every other to run my teams.....running 24 leagues, for free, all at the library. I devoted many hours during the season and offseason as I do now, all for free......so to say people in those league don't have the same committment is wrong. Heck, I would venture so say a lot of those players in the free leagues watch more baseball than the majority of the players here, but because they don't know who Ron Shandler is doesn't mean they aren't as committed. C'mon, Shawn, you've drafted live.......there's many people in these events relying on those magazines(actually quite alarming) at the draft table just like those sitting at home playing in the free leagues.



Anways, it doesn't matter, Greg would be a fool to change the online championship to 15 teams. Recycling isn't good for the events. [/QUOTE]I for one, am a longtime Fantasy Jungle vet. Very sorry they are having problems as I kept in touch with Mike and Scott and they are genuinely good guys. I also am owed some winning$ like several others. The Jungle was always a nice source of extra income for me. Anyways, I am an NFFC vet and was going to do the NFBC this year regardless of the Fantasy Jungle situation. I didn't choose the NFBC Online because it was 12 team as opposed to 15 team. I wanted to do the main but didn't have time to go to Vegas like I do for football and didn't want to "phone it in". I had already signed up for a 15 team satellite league but decided to do the Online because of the overall prize like the Jungle offered. I did three leagues because it was so cheap compared to the Jungle. I paid $500 and $1000 for the Jungle leagues. I would have preferred a larger entry fee and bigger overall prize but I may be in the minority in that. I know the cheaper the cost, the more people will be interested.

As for the differences in the leagues, the Jungle was a 15 teamer but it was easier because we only started six pitchers, one catcher and it was points based. I liked not having to worry about ERA and WHIP if my pitcher got rocked. He just didn't score much. The NFBC is definitely the best of the best and I have to work my tail off to compete. I think much skill is needed in both the 12 or 15 team formats. For the 15 team format, knowledge of the entire player base is a little more important and particular strategies like LIMA and using set up relievers have more merit than the 12 team format. Both are challenging and enjoyable though. Now if Rollins, Oswalt and Lester can start performing, I can really have $ome fun!

[Ronald Esq]

Been playing CDM games for a while, play pretty much every game over there, but focus on Football, Baseball & Golf mainly (despise their Basketball format, but I get suckered into a team or two every year and end up quitting before December hits usually). Had mixed success over there, finished 2nd overall in Second Season Baseball one year, 3rd overall in Golf a few years ago and had never had any significant success in football, until last year where I won the overall in the Football Challenge.



Honestly haven't really done many "draft" baseball leagues, used to be in a local auction league with 10 teams (selecting form 15 ML teams that were voted on each season). Did an NFBC satellite draft last year (15-team), had the 14 pick and took Ryan Howard (who was hitting about .210 in June) and my top pitchers were Verlander and Carmona -- so needless to say that team didn't work out too well.



In CDM usually do much better with inseason management than my initial roster selection, so the 12-team leagues piqued my interested more than another 15-team satellite or the main event. Luckily I pulled the top pick for one of my teams and had a monster draft, sitting 3rd overall in the Online Standings thanks to an unreal pitching start (Roy, Billingsley, Josh Johnson, Kershaw & Volstad) and have A-Rod and Tommy Hanson waiting on the bench to pounce, should be interesting.

[Parnelli]

I got stuck with a 9,10 and 11th pick in my three online drafts.I didn't like my draft spots,but in a twelve man I think I still have a good chance. The bigger player pool will help the better fantasy baseball managers.

So far I like the 12 man format.So far