The Slow Draft Dilema

[Money]

The slow draft signups are over and the final leagues are winding down. My last one is in round 37, which is fine, what is not fine is how we got here. We have 14 participating owners and one guy who insists on a differant agenda. He takes 5 - 8 hours on each and EVERY one of his picks. Some say that's his right, we all know that's a bunch of crap.

The remaining 14 owners now go at a break neck pace to get it back to him so that his clock can once again start. Should these owners be forced to do this? No, but they do in the best intrest of the whole group. Last night when I went to bed I checked the draft room on my IPAD (HMTL) but had set my auto on flash. It clicked off. It came up on my turn about 1:00 am, I checked back in when I got up at 4:30 (fortunately). After I picked the auto's that were on sent it to our, wait it out player. It was to late I had just wasted 3 and a half hours of his wait time. He is in hour 5 right now and I'm kicking myself for not double checking my auto.

The point I'm trying to make is that the guy holding things up EVERYDAY impacts how the others have to play the game. We have 8-10 on auto at all times. Not very difficult when you get to the 33rd round or so. By the way this guy has not communicated in any way shape or form to anyone about why he is putting everyone through this.

A "Do not draft with" list has got to be drawn up. Thankfully the real season of drafting is right around the corner.

[Outlaw]

Greg or Tom should send him/her an email. Common courtesy is something lacking in all walks of life these days. The technology exists in the future for Greg and Tom and Stats to make changes in the future and knowing those guys the little i do, they will always be looking to make future improvements. The issue as i see it, is some changes cost more than others, but it is feedback like this that tells them what thier customers wish for.

[SyracuseSlappers]

Inquiring Minds Still Want to Know

Is there a way to find out which league wins the title for Slowest of the Slow Drafts?

Can we in League 30 get a trophy. Wait, I think we just hit round 30.

Gotta Go.

I think we have you beat....League 34...in round 28.

I posted this 5 days ago...we're now in round 35. This is Brutal.

[Money]

Inquiring Minds Still Want to Know

Is there a way to find out which league wins the title for Slowest of the Slow Drafts?

Can we in League 30 get a trophy. Wait, I think we just hit round 30.

Gotta Go.

I think we have you beat....League 34...in round 28.

I posted this 5 days ago...we're now in round 35. This is Brutal.

5 rounds in 5 days? You need an NFBC intervention!!

[BK METS]

Yes sounds like someone needs to be notified. Unfortunately there is 1 in every draft. Incident last night with our league... The team which has been holding up our draft decides he doesnt like his pick from the previous round (9 picks later) and refuses to make his current pick since he is on the clock. Says he picked a player, but the system gave him another player... but doesnt say anything for 9 picks. After a back and forth with Admin, they decide to roll back the draft to his pick and admin auto picks everyone back to where we left off, which takes admin about 5 minutes.. The player that got his way, being on the clock... leaves the room, while on the clock.. and times out this morning... But, being in 6 different slow drafts this season, there always seems to be one guy who doesn't care... just be happy that the other 14 owners are on board.

[Outlaw]

Yes sounds like someone needs to be notified. Unfortunately there is 1 in every draft. Incident last night with our league... The team which has been holding up our draft decides he doesnt like his pick from the previous round (9 picks later) and refuses to make his current pick since he is on the clock. Says he picked a player, but the system gave him another player... but doesnt say anything for 9 picks. After a back and forth with Admin, they decide to roll back the draft to his pick and admin auto picks everyone back to where we left off, which takes admin about 5 minutes.. The player that got his way, being on the clock... leaves the room, while on the clock.. and times out this morning... But, being in 6 different slow drafts this season, there always seems to be one guy who doesn't care... just be happy that the other 14 owners are on board.

The best one yet... doubtful anyone tops that clown. we had a similar person who would check in, chat and not draft for hours at a time, supposedly waiting for his partner...

[Gekko]

Greg,
If you are listening...if u ban owners who take 4+ hours with every pick, your slow draft format will get to 2,000+ owners next year. these guys who take 4+ hours are taking a lot of fun out of the leagues.

in addition, if someone doesn't have internet access during the work day, DON'T JOIN A SLOW DRAFT. some of these jokes are just jackasses IMO

[Outlaw]

Greg,
If you are listening...if u ban owners who take 4+ hours with every pick, your slow draft format will get to 2,000+ owners next year. these guys who take 4+ hours are taking a lot of fun out of the leagues.

in addition, if someone doesn't have internet access during the work day, DON'T JOIN A SLOW DRAFT. some of these jokes are just jackasses IMO

I agree with Gekko... I was in 4 this year and will never do 4 again, unless there are changes, maybe 1 to learn the player pool. They are just too painfully slow and it shouldnt be that way. seems every draft has 2-3 of these types of folks, at least the 4 i was in. Take them away and my 4 wouldve moved at a nice pace, tops 2 weeks. when you start getting 3-4 weeks it becomes too much of hassle to check in, because you know others might be waiting for you. then you check in and see the same old delays by same old players.

I get the whole point of it being a slow draft, but the majority of those entering it (ill say 90'% or more as a guess) want it to move along at a faster pace. I say 90% just based on the 60 people i drafted with and almost all of us wanted it faster and tried to prod the 8 hr folks along.
As for some ideas list them without having to make one change techincally with the clock or 8 hrs thing. The 8 hrs remains for folks who truly have an emergency with access or being ab le to draft because of a family or work issue.

List them as:

1 week pace Slow Draft
2 week pace Slow Draft
3 week pace Slow Draft
4 week pace Slow Draft


and then let people sign up for the pace they can commit too.

It should work because is the fast slow drafts, even though there was a 90 second clock, everyone knew they had only 60 seconds and in fact most averaged 25-40 secs a pick. sure someone would go over 60 secs, but it happened so infrequently it did nor matter or piss people off.

[Money Men]

Again, I have not particpated in any of the slow drafts, and I am sure it would drive me crazy to wait days to make a pick.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if some of these guys are using this as a strategy. Knowing the only way the draft would get done on time if they took a full 8 hours every pick would be for others to rush through, make auto picks, etc. As long as the rules allow it, it has to be just as acceptable as any other strategy a guy comes into the NFBC with.

If I knew I was competing against 14 other strong players, I'd be looking for every edge I could get. If I can rattle you or piss you off, make you rush a pick to keep things moving, essentially put you in a stressful environment and see how you react, all while staying within the written rules, aren't I doing the same thing as the guys trying to get 75/75 or dual aces? Using a strategy to give me an edge.

When the end result is significant $$$, there are bound to be guys who don't care if it pisses you off...in fact that is the goal, and judging from all the "slow draft" rants on here, it works like a charm.

[BK METS]

Again, I have not particpated in any of the slow drafts, and I am sure it would drive me crazy to wait days to make a pick.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if some of these guys are using this as a strategy. Knowing the only way the draft would get done on time if they took a full 8 hours every pick would be for others to rush through, make auto picks, etc. As long as the rules allow it, it has to be just as acceptable as any other strategy a guy comes into the NFBC with.

If I knew I was competing against 14 other strong players, I'd be looking for every edge I could get. If I can rattle you or piss you off, make you rush a pick to keep things moving, essentially put you in a stressful environment and see how you react, all while staying within the written rules, aren't I doing the same thing as the guys trying to get 75/75 or dual aces? Using a strategy to give me an edge.

When the end result is significant $$$, there are bound to be guys who don't care if it pisses you off...in fact that is the goal, and judging from all the "slow draft" rants on here, it works like a charm.

Wow, you give WAY too much credit to the extra slow drafters. I have been in several of these types of situations and it has absolutely no effect on how I draft. If they are using it as strategy, they aren't succeeding and by looking at their teams, none appear even remotely competitive. Yes they have every right to take all 8 hours with every pick, but saying that slow drafters are trying to sabotage others draft strategy, is pretty silly.

[Outlaw]

Again, I have not particpated in any of the slow drafts, and I am sure it would drive me crazy to wait days to make a pick.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if some of these guys are using this as a strategy. Knowing the only way the draft would get done on time if they took a full 8 hours every pick would be for others to rush through, make auto picks, etc. As long as the rules allow it, it has to be just as acceptable as any other strategy a guy comes into the NFBC with.

If I knew I was competing against 14 other strong players, I'd be looking for every edge I could get. If I can rattle you or piss you off, make you rush a pick to keep things moving, essentially put you in a stressful environment and see how you react, all while staying within the written rules, aren't I doing the same thing as the guys trying to get 75/75 or dual aces? Using a strategy to give me an edge.

When the end result is significant $$$, there are bound to be guys who don't care if it pisses you off...in fact that is the goal, and judging from all the "slow draft" rants on here, it works like a charm.

I totally disagree. I make the pick i want and if i take 5 mins or 1/2 hr to decide, i did not rush or auto pick 1 player out of 200 i picked that I did not want. I Agree with BK Mets too, looking at the slow picker Teams, IMO, they were all weak.

[Money]

Again, I have not particpated in any of the slow drafts, and I am sure it would drive me crazy to wait days to make a pick.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if some of these guys are using this as a strategy. Knowing the only way the draft would get done on time if they took a full 8 hours every pick would be for others to rush through, make auto picks, etc. As long as the rules allow it, it has to be just as acceptable as any other strategy a guy comes into the NFBC with.

If I knew I was competing against 14 other strong players, I'd be looking for every edge I could get. If I can rattle you or piss you off, make you rush a pick to keep things moving, essentially put you in a stressful environment and see how you react, all while staying within the written rules, aren't I doing the same thing as the guys trying to get 75/75 or dual aces? Using a strategy to give me an edge.

When the end result is significant $$$, there are bound to be guys who don't care if it pisses you off...in fact that is the goal, and judging from all the "slow draft" rants on here, it works like a charm.

This mad me laugh at first. Not having played the format you don't really understand what goes into players selection in the late rounds. There may be some merit here though. If it is indeed an opportunity to gain an advantage (by using your entire 8 hours) then the NFBC needs to reevaluate the game structure. It is not what they intended the clock to be used for.

A perfect example of changing the structure is evident with a rule change in the NFBC this season. Last year we were allowed to switch pitchers out of our lineups that were on the DL on Friday. The smart players determined that they could switch these players out earlier in the week, circumventing the intent of the rule. This year we now have no Friday pitching changes. The intent of the 8 hour rule is not to gain a competitive advantage, period.

With that said I don't think folks are using it that way, but if it gives the NFBC one more reason to look at the time and rule structure for next season then I'm all for it.

[baggler]

Outlaw had a good idea listing the drafts as that or you could possibly list it as 2hr,4hr,6hr and 8hr also. I was thinking of joining but with everyone complaining about some owners taking the full alloted time ...it was a concern to me....I'll wait until it is revised for 2013...

[SyracuseSlappers]

Lovely...team at the turn has now timed out his first pick and is 2hrs into his second pick. These things are supposed to move on the weekend

[morons]

I have done 10 of the $150 slow drafts this year.

I think they are great and the fact that there are more than 50 leagues is awesome.

They have given me what I want: something to pass the time between fantasy football and the start of the baseball season and practice for the "real drafts" I will be in at the end of the month.

I chose them BECAUSE of the 8 hour time limit. I'm pretty busy with work and I don't have the time to put a lot of time in this right now. I am just as much a fantasy baseball fan as the rest of you (C'mon, I already have 10 teams) but at the same time I don't want a "Fast Draft" where I have to spend an evening logged in to the draft room to pick my team.

I think the leagues I have done have been pretty good. I generally pick 2-4 players a day, sometimes more, sometimes less. I had one league where I didn't pick the first day, and I had one where I was #2 and had to wait 7 hours for the 1st overall pick. Annoying, but not a big deal.......Each league has one or two slow pokes who use the whole 8 hours and each has a few who want to crack the whip and move the draft as fast as possible. I think both are wrong.

I think you should pick when you know you are on the clock, have a player or two in the queue when you know you are a few picks away and set "Auto One Round" but also be patient if you have to wait. Most have jobs, families, and other obligations.

I don't think it is right that people send out emails to the league about draft pace or whatever. Everyone in the league is my peer, not the commisioner and I don't think anyone should be trying to make their own rules and expect everyone else to follow them. One could call it "Common Courtsey" but common courtesy isn't common. You may thing me taking 4 hours to make a pick is rude, but I think you emailing me to nag about it is equally rude. No one owes an explanation of what they are doing or needs to provide their phone number to the league so they can be notified when their pick is up.

Maybe next year some drafts can have 4 or 6 hour limits to make others happy.

But really, if you don't like the pace of the slow draft, you should probably not play them. Play the Online or Sattelite drafts if you want to have your team done fast. Or join the $375 or $1000 slow leagues because maybe they go at a faster pace since they put more money up.

I just don't think its right to complain and send nasty emails to people who haven't broken any rules or to have expectations that are not congruent with what the stated league rules are.

-MORONS

[Money]

You make a very compelling argument for the slow / slow drafters. We probably have to agree to disagree on this subject. The NFBC needs to clarify the 8 hour time limit and how it should be used. There are inherent problems with the current set up. If each player simply took 2 hours to pick and this went on 24 hours per day it would take over 62 days to complete the draft. The NFBC would have had to stop sign ups in January if this was the case.

In a three week slow draft there are 504 hours. This seems like a reasonable amount of time. This allows each player 34 hours of time to complete their picks. Is it fair to the others in the group if one person takes 6 hours on average per every pick? That is 300 hours, This leaves 204 hours over 3 weeks for the other 14 players combined. Fair? I think not, but within the rules of the game, absolutely. I hear what your saying about players being within the rules, but if everybody played that way, there would be no slow draft competition. The slow players have to trust that they are in a league with no one else or very few like them.

This is the exact reason why some things need to be spelled out differently for future slow drafts. The rules as written need the players to be considerate of one another (most are) and realize what the 8 hour rule is there for.

[BK METS]

You make a very compelling argument for the slow / slow drafters. We probably have to agree to disagree on this subject. The NFBC needs to clarify the 8 hour time limit and how it should be used. There are inherent problems with the current set up. If each player simply took 2 hours to pick and this went on 24 hours per day it would take over 62 days to complete the draft. The NFBC would have had to stop sign ups in January if this was the case.

In a three week slow draft there are 504 hours. This seems like a reasonable amount of time. This allows each player 34 hours of time to complete their picks. Is it fair to the others in the group if one person takes 6 hours on average per every pick? That is 300 hours, This leaves 204 hours over 3 weeks for the other 14 players combined. Fair? I think not, but within the rules of the game, absolutely. I hear what your saying about players being within the rules, but if everybody played that way, there would be no slow draft competition. The slow players have to trust that they are in a league with no one else or very few like them.

This is the exact reason why some things need to be spelled out differently for future slow drafts. The rules as written need the players to be considerate of one another (most are) and realize what the 8 hour rule is there for.

Agree with this completely. I know everyone likes to go back to the fact that these are "slow" drafts, but slow doesn't mean taking 4-8 hours on every pick. Slow means, you are not up against a 90 second clock. The 8 hour limit is there for the purposes of overnight and unforseen circumstances. Joe shows you that the numbers don't work, even if everyone simply took 2 hours per pick. I have been "guilty" of trying to gather phone numbers for text purposes, so the draft can move along. I have made it a priority that if I am not going to be around for my pick, I either go on auto one or try and pick from my phone. I think this needs to be stressed so we are not faced with issues in these leagues going forward. It has been a great success and I know it will be a future hit, but I think you will get even more signups if you didn't have people in these drafts that really don't care to be considerate. Yes they are within the rules, but the 8 hour rule is being mis-interpreted and needs to be clarified.

[Money]

You make a very compelling argument for the slow / slow drafters. We probably have to agree to disagree on this subject. The NFBC needs to clarify the 8 hour time limit and how it should be used. There are inherent problems with the current set up. If each player simply took 2 hours to pick and this went on 24 hours per day it would take over 62 days to complete the draft. The NFBC would have had to stop sign ups in January if this was the case.

In a three week slow draft there are 504 hours. This seems like a reasonable amount of time. This allows each player 34 hours of time to complete their picks. Is it fair to the others in the group if one person takes 6 hours on average per every pick? That is 300 hours, This leaves 204 hours over 3 weeks for the other 14 players combined. Fair? I think not, but within the rules of the game, absolutely. I hear what your saying about players being within the rules, but if everybody played that way, there would be no slow draft competition. The slow players have to trust that they are in a league with no one else or very few like them.

This is the exact reason why some things need to be spelled out differently for future slow drafts. The rules as written need the players to be considerate of one another (most are) and realize what the 8 hour rule is there for.

Agree with this completely. I know everyone likes to go back to the fact that these are "slow" drafts, but slow doesn't mean taking 4-8 hours on every pick. Slow means, you are not up against a 90 second clock. The 8 hour limit is there for the purposes of overnight and unforseen circumstances. Joe shows you that the numbers don't work, even if everyone simply took 2 hours per pick. I have been "guilty" of trying to gather phone numbers for text purposes, so the draft can move along. I have made it a priority that if I am not going to be around for my pick, I either go on auto one or try and pick from my phone. I think this needs to be stressed so we are not faced with issues in these leagues going forward. It has been a great success and I know it will be a future hit, but I think you will get even more signups if you didn't have people in these drafts that really don't care to be considerate. Yes they are within the rules, but the 8 hour rule is being mis-interpreted and needs to be clarified.

One last time correlation. 3 drafters taking 3 hours per pick for each of their picks. That's 450 hours in a 3 week draft leaving 54 hours for the remaining 12 players combined. It happens and I don't think it should. The solution/answer is very complicated though.

[Outlaw]

1 week pace Slow Draft
2 week pace Slow Draft
3 week pace Slow Draft
4 week pace Slow Draft

idea for next year. leave the 8 hrs and sign up for the pace you can commit too.

[rkulaski]

Yes sounds like someone needs to be notified. Unfortunately there is 1 in every draft. Incident last night with our league... The team which has been holding up our draft decides he doesnt like his pick from the previous round (9 picks later) and refuses to make his current pick since he is on the clock. Says he picked a player, but the system gave him another player... but doesnt say anything for 9 picks. After a back and forth with Admin, they decide to roll back the draft to his pick and admin auto picks everyone back to where we left off, which takes admin about 5 minutes.. The player that got his way, being on the clock... leaves the room, while on the clock.. and times out this morning... But, being in 6 different slow drafts this season, there always seems to be one guy who doesn't care... just be happy that the other 14 owners are on board.

The best one yet... doubtful anyone tops that clown. we had a similar person who would check in, chat and not draft for hours at a time, supposedly waiting for his partner...

Not true if referring to my team and I was not "supposedly" waiting for my partner. I was waiting for my partner/ co-manager. We have different schedules sometimes. Sometimes I login to queue up players, see if it's my turn, check the recent picks, etc. There was one instance where it was our turn and my co-manager was late calling me, then we debated some players which took awhile. If that happens sometimes throughout the course of 50 rounds, it's OK.

Anyways, I think the people who are online constantly waiting for their turn sometimes have the least amount of patience. TRY A FAST-SLOW draft. There is common courtesy, yes, in that a team should not be taking 5 hours to pick EVERY single round. However, taking multiple hours once every so often is perfectly acceptable. There are always 2 sides to every story so just defending myself and not letting this "clown" Outlaw only share his side of what happened in our particular league.

The slow drafts are a lot of fun; however, I don't envy Greg and Tom who have to listen each year to all the griping and complaining of others because the slow drafts are too slow. (this comment is not directed to the starter of this thread who has a legitimate gripe).

I'm all for lessening the number of hours between picks (at least during the day and early evening) but, unfortunately, there will always be guys who just can't cope with the "slowness" of the picks. If Greg narrow the hours per pick to 3 hours in the daytime, there will still be those complainers and gripers who will be unsatisfied when so-and-so owner is taking 2 hr and 45 min every other round to make a pick.

[rockitsauce]

First - I've competed w/ Rich for yrs. He's a stand up guy. Good dude. He's certainly not out to sabotage any slow draft.

This is obviously a touchy subject. Greg has quite the golden goose here in these slow drafts and he surely doesn't want to kill it while attempting to appease too many people. Logically the math shows you cannot have too many drafters taking too many hours or you wouldn't complete the draft in time for the season, (depending on when you started of course). I am not too proud to admit when I am wrong and I was. I am far too impatient for these types of drafts and I was spoiled by drafting these last few yrs in the MLBC, whish is technically a slow draft, but always is completed in 1 wk. The drafters in there are all vets and the commish is KJ, nuff said there

I have plenty of options to compete here in NFBC. I am sure there will be offerings for more fast-slow drafts next yr too. Some wise guy on a mtn once said, "know thyself"....well if u know ur an impatient a-hole (like me) than don't do any traditional Slow drafts. There are plenty of other options. Honestly, this doesn't have to be so contentious.


For next yr a suggestion - perhaps trying to align drafters w/ their times zones could be helpful, say East/Central & Mtn/Pacific.

alright then. I am ready for the REAL drafting season. It's MARCH. It's $$$ time. Let's Go. Gekko, I want sum goddamn trash talk, don't go family guy soft on me now

[Outlaw]

no one is being contentious here. its just a discussion. there have been plenty of ideas floated and NFBC I am sure will make some tweaks and present different options. the fact remains a high pct of people 80-90 would like to see the pace a lot faster and that is for Greg/Tom to figure that out. Again, I base that on 4 drafts i was in and most players picked quick and were on folks who were slow, although they were within the rules and entitled to be as slow as they wanted. Email and chat writing leaves a lot to be desired, especially with people who have never met or most that have never met. Everyone needs to take a chill pill on stuff like this. as someone said there are plenty of other options too...

[Rog]

I think some are missing the point here!It is ok to take the time needed to make your pick when it is needed!It becomes a problem when the same person repeatedly abuses the clock.I personally love the slow draft format,I communicate with both players on each end of my pick and text all that are willing to leave their number.These slow drafts gave me the ability to chat with some players and get to know them as a person instead of a user name.Any of you all that did a slow draft with me know that I talk and ramble on about nothing.Always willing to talk about baseball or anything else.Everybody needs to know that the 8 hour clock is there for convenience not for a drafting tool,or to hold other drafters hostage.If you need the 8 hours use it if not then dont.WHY CANT WE ALL GET ALONG?

[Money Men]

Time Limit for Draft: There will be an 8-hour time limit for each owner to make his/her pick during each round of the NFBC Slow Draft DC League draft.

Agree with this completely. I know everyone likes to go back to the fact that these are "slow" drafts, but slow doesn't mean taking 4-8 hours on every pick. Slow means, you are not up against a 90 second clock. The 8 hour limit is there for the purposes of overnight and unforseen circumstances. Joe shows you that the numbers don't work, even if everyone simply took 2 hours per pick. I have been "guilty" of trying to gather phone numbers for text purposes, so the draft can move along. I have made it a priority that if I am not going to be around for my pick, I either go on auto one or try and pick from my phone. I think this needs to be stressed so we are not faced with issues in these leagues going forward. It has been a great success and I know it will be a future hit, but I think you will get even more signups if you didn't have people in these drafts that really don't care to be considerate. Yes they are within the rules, but the 8 hour rule is being mis-interpreted and needs to be clarified.

Show me where the rules say slow doesn't mean taking 4-8 hours per pick. They don't. The rules say nothing about the hour limit being there for overnight or unforeseen circumstances.

The rules say everyone has eight hours to make a selection. Each round. The ones misinterpreting the rule as written are the ones trying to rush other owners.

[Money]

I THINK SOME ARE MISSING THE POINT HERE!It is ok to take the time needed to make your pick when it is needed!It becomes a problem when the same person repeatedly abuses the clock.I personally love the slow draft format,I communicate with both players on each end of my pick and text all that are willing to leave their number.These slow drafts gave me the ability to chat with some players and get to know them as a person instead of a user name.Any of you all that did a slow draft with me know that I talk and ramble on about nothing.Always willing to talk about baseball or anything else.Everybody needs to know that the 8 hour clock is there for convenience not for a drafting tool,or to hold other drafters hostage.If you need the 8 hours use it if not then dont.WHY CANT WE ALL GET ALONG?

This is correct. So, for the sake of discussion lets say you commit to a 3 week draft. That's 504 hours. Each person gets a running clock 34 hours or so. They will then be allowed to allow life to get in the way. Possibly you shut down the timer between 11pm and 7am but allow picks not going against that teams time.

The 34 hours allows you to let life get in the way. This is a 3 week draft and could be set up higher or lower. I'm not sure if IT can set up a clock for each drafter. It sure would help things along and if you needed to be away then so be it. But to be allowed to be away and abuse the clock to your liking as is being done now is simply wrong and it is done at the expense of every other player in the league.

It's time to do away with the inconsiderate drafters (which is a severe minority) who deem it their right to take 6 - 8 hours every pick. They are ruining the experience for the majority.