PlaceHolder Mess

[Lobbyist999]

Did several online drafts last year, where I'd see maybe 3 or 4 placeholders selected.

In my very first online league this year, 13 PlaceHolders selected, as we're still concluding the last round.

Several issues:

1. Several drafters have neglected to send mass emails to inform other owners about who they've selected. If you miss their announcement on the live in-draft message board, you may never find out.

2. Predictably, one drafter selected players that had already been taken as PlaceHolders by another owner. The latter has had to write everyone to re-assert that he's the prior owner. There may be others who have drafted the same player -- we'll never know.

3. A drafter selected an outfielder already belonging to another owner and dubbed him "PlaceHolderOF3", was called on it and corrected his mistake ... where else, on the live in-draft message board, where he announced that he was taking a 1B instead. So he's now drafted PlaceHolder OF 3 to stand for a first baseman.

It's getting murkier as more and more owners are fishing for obscure players in the latter stages of a draft.

Some suggestions:

1. Make all of the postings made on the in-draft message board, available throughout the draft. This way we can readily view all PlaceHolder selections and call for an immediate correction. Also easier for the drafters to recap all of PlaceHolders taken in a draft.

2. Allow for an alternate way to record PlaceHolder selections, where everyone can see them.

3. Any players taken as PlaceHolders in a completed draft, should be made part of the data base by the time a subsequent draft begins (maybe this is already being done, I don't know).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Cornhusker]

Adding the players to the player pool is the most important. I took 4 placeholders myself in Slow Draft #1 which is too many.

If these placeholders are added now, there will be few if any issues later. If not, I pity the person who has to sort all of the placeholders out before the start of the season as you will have 10-20 per draft the way it looks.

[Dak]

In my opinion, the placeholder mess was caused by two reasons:

1. We were begging Tom and Greg to start the drafts early. More time would've allowed them to enter more players on the list.

2. Most of the players chosen as placeholders will never see Major League time this yr, some not AA or AAA time! They were picked more so as wishful thinking. In some cases, as "look at my dynasty knowledge". I was shaking my head at some of these picks.........ridiculous. Rule 5 picks were the exception.

[poopytooth]

I'm concerned someone will find out a round later they have someone already selected and try to select someone taken a couple picks ago. Meaning if owner double dips, six more owners picks after and then the owner of the double dip says, he didnt realize and tries to take one of the six picked after his repeat pick...to which I would say bs if I was one if those owners...

[poopytooth]

In my opinion, the placeholder mess was caused by two reasons:

1. We were begging Tom and Greg to start the drafts early. More time would've allowed them to enter more players on the list.

2. Most of the players chosen as placeholders will never see Major League time this yr, some not AA or AAA time! They were picked more so as wishful thinking. In some cases, as "look at my dynasty knowledge". I was shaking my head at some of these picks.........ridiculous. Rule 5 picks were the exception.

Yeah, I saw one owner take a 10th grader in my league.

[Baseball Furies]

In my opinion, the placeholder mess was caused by two reasons:

1. We were begging Tom and Greg to start the drafts early. More time would've allowed them to enter more players on the list.

2. Most of the players chosen as placeholders will never see Major League time this yr, some not AA or AAA time! They were picked more so as wishful thinking. In some cases, as "look at my dynasty knowledge". I was shaking my head at some of these picks.........ridiculous. Rule 5 picks were the exception.

I disagree. In the business world, it's called "supply and demand". Either match it or you won't be long in business or your business is going to go elsewhere. Sooner or later you won't be the only game in town, and someone is going to be doing better, faster, and more advanced than you are. I'll leave it at that...for now.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Adding the players to the player pool is the most important. I took 4 placeholders myself in Slow Draft #1 which is too many.

If these placeholders are added now, there will be few if any issues later. If not, I pity the person who has to sort all of the placeholders out before the start of the season as you will have 10-20 per draft the way it looks.

Guys, we have over 1,100 players in the player default list and as new Placeholders come in we'll add them to the player pool and give them Player IDs. We have fewer Placeholders this year than any other year because guys like Doughboys gave us all kinds of minor-league players to add before we loaded the player pool. When your league is finished, please email me your Placeholders at [email protected] and I'll update these once we've added these players to the default list. It's as easy as that.

In each of these early leagues, it's important for folks to write the name of their Placeholder in the League Chat room and for other owners to remember who those Placeholders are. When someone else takes that same player as a Placeholder, it's on him. I've replaced all players as soon as I'm alerted and we've moved on. That's the way we have to do it going forward until we have EVERY minor-leaguer you folks are grabbing in the player pool, but even then we'll probably be missing someone. We're updating these players as we go and we will continue to do so. We're on it, despite what some folks here think.

[Greg Ambrosius]

In my opinion, the placeholder mess was caused by two reasons:

1. We were begging Tom and Greg to start the drafts early. More time would've allowed them to enter more players on the list.

2. Most of the players chosen as placeholders will never see Major League time this yr, some not AA or AAA time! They were picked more so as wishful thinking. In some cases, as "look at my dynasty knowledge". I was shaking my head at some of these picks.........ridiculous. Rule 5 picks were the exception.

1. This is one of the reasons we didn't start these on Oct. 5th. Folks want to start these slow drafts early, but you need to have eligibility locked in and the player pool updated. We are criticized by guys here on this post for not starting soon enough AND for not having every single Double-A guy in the player pool. Thank goodness we took the time to make sure player eligibility was exactly right or folks would have really been on us.

2. As you said, obscure players are getting picked in the later rounds and no extra time would have prepared us for those picks. But they do allow us to get them into the player pool now so that future Draft Champions leagues have them in the player default list. The only way to tackle placeholders is to add the players once they've been picked or we'll have 3,000+ players in the player default list. I think we all agree to that and we're on it. We're not asleep at the wheel like someone here in this thread is suggesting. Sheesh.

[Greg Ambrosius]

In my opinion, the placeholder mess was caused by two reasons:

1. We were begging Tom and Greg to start the drafts early. More time would've allowed them to enter more players on the list.

2. Most of the players chosen as placeholders will never see Major League time this yr, some not AA or AAA time! They were picked more so as wishful thinking. In some cases, as "look at my dynasty knowledge". I was shaking my head at some of these picks.........ridiculous. Rule 5 picks were the exception.

I disagree. In the business world, it's called "supply and demand". Either match it or you won't be long in business or your business is going to go elsewhere. Sooner or later you won't be the only game in town, and someone is going to be doing better, faster, and more advanced than you are. I'll leave it at that...for now.

Thanks for the business lesson Mike.

[Bama]

Adding the players to the player pool is the most important. I took 4 placeholders myself in Slow Draft #1 which is too many.

If these placeholders are added now, there will be few if any issues later. If not, I pity the person who has to sort all of the placeholders out before the start of the season as you will have 10-20 per draft the way it looks.

Guys, we have over 1,100 players in the player default list and as new Placeholders come in we'll add them to the player pool and give them Player IDs. We have fewer Placeholders this year than any other year because guys like Doughboys gave us all kinds of minor-league players to add before we loaded the player pool. When your league is finished, please email me your Placeholders at [email protected] and I'll update these once we've added these players to the default list. It's as easy as that.

In each of these early leagues, it's important for folks to write the name of their Placeholder in the League Chat room and for other owners to remember who those Placeholders are. When someone else takes that same player as a Placeholder, it's on him. I've replaced all players as soon as I'm alerted and we've moved on. That's the way we have to do it going forward until we have EVERY minor-leaguer you folks are grabbing in the player pool, but even then we'll probably be missing someone. We're updating these players as we go and we will continue to do so. We're on it, despite what some folks here think.

I guess heres the problem that has not been addressed by stats. The chat dissapears as soon as you log out so no one knows who the player taken in the placeholder is even if it is placed in chat as once logged back on it wouldnt show. unless your logged in at the time a person states his pick you dont have a clue who's picked.

[Greg Ambrosius]

You're right Kenny. I'll have them look at that ASAP.

[Lobbyist999]

When your league is finished, please email me your Placeholders at [email protected] and I'll update these once we've added these players to the default list. It's as easy as that.

In a money set-up such as this, there is no incentive for an owner to have his favorite unlisted upside players made part of the data base. He'd rather leave those names off the radar. Which is why it is not likely to happen if it has to come from owners themselves.

In each of these early leagues, it's important for folks to write the name of their Placeholder in the League Chat room and for other owners to remember who those Placeholders are.

Problem is, league chatroom posts scroll out quickly -- if any owner is not online at any given time, you can't scroll back the chat.

When someone else takes that same player as a Placeholder, it's on him.

Except that ... trying to get 15 owners in a draft to collaborate on a timely basis, is near impossible. If your turn is up and placeholders have been taken, and you want to add another one, do we call for Help until the information on previous placeholders has been provided? I can see anyone trying this, getting lambasted.

I've replaced all players as soon as I'm alerted and we've moved on. That's the way we have to do it going forward until we have EVERY minor-leaguer you folks are grabbing in the player pool, but even then we'll probably be missing someone. We're updating these players as we go and we will continue to do so. We're on it, despite what some folks here think.

I greatly appreciate the efforts being made. It's just that I am seeing placeholders taken earlier and more often this year, which means that there is a strong likelihood that at least one placeholder pick per draft, will be taken twice.

It can't be on us to monitor chatroom messages that scroll out and disappear when we're not online.

[Lobbyist999]

You're right Kenny. I'll have them look at that ASAP.

Your humble chopped liver poster, made the same comment in item 1 of the opening post (under "suggestions").

[Greg Ambrosius]

You're right Kenny. I'll have them look at that ASAP.

Your humble chopped liver poster, made the same comment in item 1 of the opening post (under "suggestions").

Again, if you want us to list 3,000+ minor-leaguers so that there are NO placeholders, we can do that, but it will slow down the drafting process for everyone throughout the drafting season. The Placeholders are for players in the minors beyond what we've expected, but that will happen every year. We have 1,100+ players in the data base and you guys are drafting 750 players. We'll keep adding players as we see new ones being drafted.

And I don't think we have more Placeholders this year than last year. I'm keeping track of them now and I have EIGHT different players so far. If there's more than that, I haven't seen them yet. For anyone who did draft someone who was already selected, owners in those drafts have contacted us right away and we've been able to switch to new players.

And yeah, we need to update the Chat area to make that work better.

[BK METS]

I am not technically savvy so excuse me if this sounds ignorant... but is there a way, when someone sends a placeholder to their que, they can click on the word "placeholder", and write in the players name that they are choosing? This way, there is no question at all...

Probably not, but just a thought.

[Outlaw]

Greg/tom

how many drafts are complete?

[Tom Kessenich]

Greg/tom

how many drafts are complete?

Looks like $150 Leagues 1 and 3 are complete. $150 League 2 is the next closest to finishing up. That league is in the 42nd round.

[Lobbyist999]

Again, if you want us to list 3,000+ minor-leaguers so that there are NO placeholders, we can do that, (...)

Never intended, nor suggested that. Absolutely agree, we need to take a pragmatic approach.

[joshguy]

one problem i have seen is that teams had taken Nakijima from the A's as a placeholder. Now that he is in the system, teams who dont know that the placeholder was taken, are now taking Nakajima because they see him now listed.

[poopytooth]

We're on it, despite what some folks here think.

Greg, I'm not sure if you were referring to me or not, but my comments are not a bashing of your service at all...just poking fun at those who select very young players who will likely not play above A/AA this year.

Admittedly, I do get annoyed when people double select because they aren't paying attention, but to me, that is on them, not STATS or you guys.

To be 100% clear - I am one who is in favor of starting every year on October 5th, but understand we need to wait a little while longer!

[NorCalAtlFan]

"Admittedly, I do get annoyed when people double select because they aren't paying attention, but to me, that is on them, not STATS or you guys"

with the chat being what it is, I don't blame the players. I can make a placeholder selection, announce it in the draft, and go on my way. odds are half the people in the draft won't ever see the message because they weren't in the room the moment I made the pick. Protocol is I should email the league, and most people do. But that's imperfect too.

[Greg Ambrosius]

one problem i have seen is that teams had taken Nakijima from the A's as a placeholder. Now that he is in the system, teams who dont know that the placeholder was taken, are now taking Nakajima because they see him now listed.

Correct, this is going to be a problem throughout the process as we add guys who are Placeholders. Again, we are trying to update the data base quickly so that we don't have as many Placeholders in future drafts, but for those leagues drafting at the same time it could create problems. There's no good solution.

Nakijima is a situation where he couldn't be in the data base before he signed with an MLB team. Once he signed with the A's, he automatically went into our data base and he showed up in our player default list. This will happen with any foreign player who signs a contract with an MLB team. The best solution for existing leagues is as much communication as possible, which as Bryan, suggests, might include an email to all league members or contact me and I'll do that. Thanks.

[Greg Ambrosius]

We're on it, despite what some folks here think.

Greg, I'm not sure if you were referring to me or not, but my comments are not a bashing of your service at all...just poking fun at those who select very young players who will likely not play above A/AA this year.

Admittedly, I do get annoyed when people double select because they aren't paying attention, but to me, that is on them, not STATS or you guys.

To be 100% clear - I am one who is in favor of starting every year on October 5th, but understand we need to wait a little while longer!

Agreed Michael, I don't think anyone is bashing us either. Some are saying that if we don't stay on top of things that competition will come in and do it better. My point is that we have a solid data base of players to host these 750-player drafts, but if we don't have EIGHT minor-leaguers in the system it doesn't mean that competition will wipe us off the mat. We are being very pro-active with the data base, with getting online drafts started sooner than ever, in getting the web site live earlier and Registration started earlier, and host venues locked in earlier than ever before. We are being pro-active with getting an ideal promotional partner for our online leagues (stay tuned) and our live drafts (stay tuned), so I'm not sure why we are failing Business 101. But that was the lesson within this thread.

I'm saying THANKS for the input on the Placeholders and realize that as we start these earlier each year we will be missing some Class A and AA guys from the data base. We'll add them once they are picked. We'll do our best to see the Placeholders and make the Chat stay so that everyone can see who the Placeholder was. But we all need to work together to make these early drafts work well and I'll do what I can to help. I love the fact that we have so many baseball die-hards willing to draft before Christmas, but unfortunately the Placeholders are needed when baseball has so many available players throughout the minors.

[Outlaw]

Greg- short of adding 3000 playes into the system, there is no easy fix doing drafts this early. if folks are having issues with the few place holder names so far, well that goes with wanting to have fun and draft early. shoot, most publications and paid for touts can't even come close to staying on top of the current 40 man rosters like the NFBC has done. You put 3000 players in the draft pool and you'll really hear the whining on how they cant sort, why are there so many, etc.... I say Job well done and good luck to any competition trying cut into the NFBC buisness model and offerings. What the NFBC offers is quality and the opportunity to comptete against best fantasy players. You, Tom and Stats have proven over and over you will make the adjustments and improvments neccessary to offer the quality products your base asks for and still appeal to any new player.
Last night Tom fixed a problem I personnaly had picking a place holder player that showed up in the draft pool yesterday. I knew it was about 11pm Tom's time and I sent the neccessary email to my league and Tom as well as in the chat, saying who I would take instead and for the draft to proceed and not wait for Tom. I'll be dammed if Tom Did'nt have it all fixed in less than 10 minutes and he should have been in bed. So this is all noise, the complaints about draft place holders, its easliy fixed every time.

and Happy Holidays to all!!!!!!!!