Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Glenneration X » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:42 pm

Tom Kessenich wrote:
Baseball Furies wrote:No, actually the joke is that we still have 15 owners who would like to have started this thing earlier
You continue to want to wage wars with Greg and I about these types of things after leagues are sold out and honestly both of us have no idea why.
Continuing with our Down Boys theme......

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In this picture, Massotto gearing up after hearing that Greg & Tom refused to agree to change the ice tea served at our drafts from sweetened to unsweetened after MtM stated that all 15 drafters came to him asking for it. :shock:

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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Lunatic » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:49 pm

Got to love the throwing under the bus post; Mike does present with a passion for what he believes in. Greg and Tommyst get a kick out of this or not.
Mike is just in a hurry to get his ass kicked :twisted:
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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Gates » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:11 pm

Guys
From what I heard, anonymous and reliable source, all have confirmed they would be able to start on the 9th. If so, can we? I would greatly appreciate since my vacations have been moved to late February and I would be a pain in the butt being in Punta Cana...or some hot other place...

Thanks

Gaëtan
Go ahead, make my day...

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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Highrollers » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:16 pm

It would be ok with me to start early. :D

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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Tom Kessenich » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:20 pm

Gates wrote:Guys
From what I heard, anonymous and reliable source, all have confirmed they would be able to start on the 9th.
Gaetan, I just spoke with someone in this league and he said he wouldn't be able to start earlier than the 11th. So there does not appear to be a consensus within this league with regard to an earlier starting date. This is what Greg and I have been talking about. It's not as easy to switch a set date/time as some are making it out to be. I'll let Greg weigh in and he can certainly overrule me but I think for now we'll stick with the set starting date of Feb. 18. Again, that's the date everyone signed up for and it's the date the league has been set up for.
Tom Kessenich
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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Glenneration X » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:28 pm

Mikey, since it seems a few of us would like to start early, would you please reach out to Greg & Tom to make this request since they always seem to respond so well when you do.

(Plus I need my nightly entertainment sure to come after you do.) :D

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I can barely watch. Image

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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:28 pm

Glenneration X wrote:Mikey, since it seems a few of us would like to start early, would you please reach out to Greg & Tom to make this request since they always seem to respond so well when you do.

(Plus I need my nightly entertainment sure to come after you do.) :D

Image
I can barely watch. Image
It's kind of funny -- well, at least to some of you -- that it looks like Tom and I are being bad parents here when in reality we're not. We are saying NO to starting a league 16 days ahead of the agreed upon starting date that involves 15 different owners with 15 different schedules because there's momentum on the message boards by several members to do so. As Tom said, we know that not all 15 are on board to start early, so even 13 of 15 isn't enough to change the starting date.

It's a shame that there's any negativity involved with this league because it's such a great league and Max has done a great job to make this special. Each year we've started this league when pitchers and catchers report and that's what everyone requested this year...until Saturday. As game operators and doing what's best for ALL 15 OWNERS, we couldn't just change the start date because there was a request for it. Heck, not everyone is even paid yet, so let's all chill (I hope that's not condescending to anyone) and prepare for the start of this league two weeks from today. Good luck all.
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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Glenneration X » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:42 pm

Greg Ambrosius wrote:so let's all chill (I hope that's not condescending to anyone)
So now we're not only dogs, but cold ones as well??

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You gonna accept that Mikey??


(Excuse me while I go refill my popcorn). Image

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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Baseball Furies » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:08 pm

Greg Ambrosius wrote:
Glenneration X wrote:Mikey, since it seems a few of us would like to start early, would you please reach out to Greg & Tom to make this request since they always seem to respond so well when you do.

(Plus I need my nightly entertainment sure to come after you do.) :D

Image
I can barely watch. Image
It's kind of funny -- well, at least to some of you -- that it looks like Tom and I are being bad parents here when in reality we're not. We are saying NO to starting a league 16 days ahead of the agreed upon starting date that involves 15 different owners with 15 different schedules because there's momentum on the message boards by several members to do so. As Tom said, we know that not all 15 are on board to start early, so even 13 of 15 isn't enough to change the starting date.

It's a shame that there's any negativity involved with this league because it's such a great league and Max has done a great job to make this special. Each year we've started this league when pitchers and catchers report and that's what everyone requested this year...until Saturday. As game operators and doing what's best for ALL 15 OWNERS, we couldn't just change the start date because there was a request for it. Heck, not everyone is even paid yet, so let's all chill (I hope that's not condescending to anyone) and prepare for the start of this league two weeks from today. Good luck all.

Okay, I'm going to try this one more time, and this should be required reading not only as part of this thread, but on every thread on these boards. Obviously I'm the one that has been ineffective with my communication here because, Greg, you are taking this far too personally and once again forgetting that we are all of your paying customers who are asking that we be heard and taken into consideration especially when something that you and Tom are doing either doesn't work or needs to be changed from time to time. For all the great things that you both do on our behalf and on behalf of the NFBC, it is maddening and infuriating just how short-sighted and dismissive you both can be when you are confronted with change, innovation, and challenges to be better by your clientele who are have been pushing for so many things (many of them so simple like starting a draft early for instance) for years which just take forever to happen, and sometimes not at all. I am not going to list them all here. You have heard them all before (overall live scoring and a myriad of other technical improvements that have been promised for example). I am not trying to stir the pot to get a reaction and insight some sort of insurrection or uprising against either of you, but I am sick and tired of getting PM's and emails from your clientele telling me that I'm "dead on", or "I'm glad you told them", or "keep fighting the good fight", etc. It's just bullshit. I'm sorry, but I call them like I see them, and I speak my mind. I know when I'm right, and I can admit and take responsibility when I'm wrong, but it's time for action, and I'm not wrong on this. Myself and many others are weary of being rebuffed, scolded, ignored, placated, stalled, etc. when we confront you for the good of not only us but for your company as well. Many have given up in frustration long ago I have been told. But sooner or later, this is going to begin to cost you market share and attrition of your base from which the bulk of your revenue comes from, and that would just be not only tragic but outright stupid. We all love to compete as part of this great fraternity and brotherhood of fanatics that has fostered so many great friendships and so much amazing camaraderie year in and year out...and to the tune of thousands or even tens of thousand of dollars in my case no less. But that being said, we expect and deserve better from you, especially those of us who continually have helped to drive new revenue to you each year. As a company owner in my own right, I am speaking from experience on this, and there are many others just like me that would love to contribute to you, be heard, and know that it has made a difference because change actually does come and now, not perhaps at some later date. What you choose to do with what I wrote is up to you. I believe that I was respectful and not belligerent or antagonistic in anyway in making my points to you. I would appreciate a public response to what I wrote on a new thread by you for the benefit of us all particularly for those in the silent majority; and that goes for anyone else who has read what I wrote here and agrees. No PM's, phone calls. emails, or text messages. Have the guts to speak your mind and put your ass on the line.

Adlai E. Stevenson, former governor of Illinois and ambassador to the UN, once said: “All progress has resulted from people who took unpopular positions”. Only history will vindicate courageous leaders who dare to row against the tide; if they end up being right of course." Wise words and ones I try to live by as a leader in my own right. Hopefully they resonate with you as well.

-MTM
"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base." ~Dave Barry

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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Baseball Furies » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:15 pm

Tom Kessenich wrote:
Gates wrote:Guys
From what I heard, anonymous and reliable source, all have confirmed they would be able to start on the 9th.
Gaetan, I just spoke with someone in this league and he said he wouldn't be able to start earlier than the 11th. So there does not appear to be a consensus within this league with regard to an earlier starting date. This is what Greg and I have been talking about. It's not as easy to switch a set date/time as some are making it out to be. I'll let Greg weigh in and he can certainly overrule me but I think for now we'll stick with the set starting date of Feb. 18. Again, that's the date everyone signed up for and it's the date the league has been set up for.
Tom,
That someone was Greg Doyle. He had let me know this when I reached out and heard back from this league in its entirety regarding a change in start date. We are all willing and can start this thing on the 11th. No one said that it had to start immediately. I spent two days working on this to hear back from everyone and made it perfectly clear that there had to be a 100% response in order for a change to be entertained. I got that, and still an issue is being made about this. We have a 15 member quorum on this. So what's the problem with a sending a league email yourself to confirm this, and getting it going then?
"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base." ~Dave Barry

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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Glenneration X » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:42 pm

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Change the channel! Change the channel!!!

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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by TOXIC ASSETS » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:32 am

MTM, we need you in Congress, ASAP. If you can succeed in getting this draft mvoed up 7 days --- maybe you can wake up the deadwood in Washington to get some stuff done....

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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Gates » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:49 am

Tom
Well let's go for the 11th then, sooner the way better for me. I am NOT asking this change of start date because I am a Lunatic (sorry Jim) and can't stand in place, need to draft absolutely now now now but because the 18th is now causing problems. Work has been pretty intense lately and I had to cancel my earlier vacation plan and the only vacation time window that I have left with my girl is late February. It would be quite ackward to draft under the sun, I would only slow down everybody and God knows I don't want to give my place.

Tom and Greg, please consider a change of date, personally I would appreciate.

Thanks
Gaëtan
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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Glenneration X » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:19 am

TOXIC ASSETS wrote:MTM, we need you in Congress, ASAP. If you can succeed in getting this draft mvoed up 7 days --- maybe you can wake up the deadwood in Washington to get some stuff done....
Image
A glimpse into a 2016 MtM for President rally?



and in continuing our Down Boys theme.......

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"As your president, I'd see that all drafts started early, that no league had less than a $100,000 grand prize, and that every league draft be broadcast on Sirius FM! I'm not looking to challenge the status quo, rock the boat, stir the waters, feed the fish, or swim with the dolphins, and I am not asking for any compensation or reward of any kind, no matter how deserved! However the people of this nation have PM'd, texted, and emailed me and they are sick and tired of being rebuffed, ignored, placated, and compared to canines when issues of this magnitude and importance in a forum of with this level of excitement and fanaticism from this country's most loyal and biggest spenders cry out for justice. As the great Spiro Agnew, former vice president of this great country and receiver of a pardon from our highest office once said: "What taxes?" I try to live my life by those same words."

In a related story, incumbent Greg Ambrosius responded "Huh?"

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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Tom Kessenich » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:13 am

Baseball Furies wrote:
Tom Kessenich wrote:
Gates wrote:Guys
From what I heard, anonymous and reliable source, all have confirmed they would be able to start on the 9th.
Gaetan, I just spoke with someone in this league and he said he wouldn't be able to start earlier than the 11th. So there does not appear to be a consensus within this league with regard to an earlier starting date. This is what Greg and I have been talking about. It's not as easy to switch a set date/time as some are making it out to be. I'll let Greg weigh in and he can certainly overrule me but I think for now we'll stick with the set starting date of Feb. 18. Again, that's the date everyone signed up for and it's the date the league has been set up for.
Tom,
That someone was Greg Doyle.
No it wasn't Gaetan. And this is exactly what Greg and I are talking about. There is the perception that everyone is on board with the same earlier date and time when that's clearly not the case. If all 15 owners can't agree to an earlier date and time then it makes no sense for us to change the scheduled date. Like Greg said, if you guys want to make us out to be the bad guys for setting the league up to start on the date everyone agreed to when they signed up then I guess we'll have to be the bad guys.
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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Gates » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:18 am

Tom
Mike did not say it was me, he said it was mr Doyle.

Gaëtan
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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:20 am

Gates wrote:Tom
Well let's go for the 11th then, sooner the way better for me. I am NOT asking this change of start date because I am a Lunatic (sorry Jim) and can't stand in place, need to draft absolutely now now now but because the 18th is now causing problems. Work has been pretty intense lately and I had to cancel my earlier vacation plan and the only vacation time window that I have left with my girl is late February. It would be quite ackward to draft under the sun, I would only slow down everybody and God knows I don't want to give my place.

Tom and Greg, please consider a change of date, personally I would appreciate.

Thanks
Gaëtan
Gaetan, this is an easy solution. Yes, I'll send out an email today to all 15 owners in this league asking if we can start after Feb. 11th. As Tom said, we have talked to at least 2 owners who couldn't start before the 11th, so this insinuation that I'm not Adlai Stevenson (wasn't he from Illinois? Of course I'm not like him Mikey) is kind of funny (I hope nobody is offended by that). We can start this draft whenever all 15 are on board.

Look for an email everyone and respond to me. If all 15 can start on Feb. 11th or Feb. 12th then we'll start it up. If 1 or 2 people can't start that early then we'll stick with the Feb. 18th start time like we originally all agreed to. Simple enough. Are we good now?
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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Tom Kessenich » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:23 am

Gates wrote:Tom
Mike did not say it was me, he said it was mr Doyle.

Gaëtan
And it wasn't Greg Doyle. That is not the person I spoke to. Again, there's a perception going on here that's being assumed to be fact when it clearly isn't the case. That's all Greg and I have been trying to explain. In any event, Greg has said he'll email all 15 so if all of you agree to a new date and time we'll respond accordingly.
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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:33 am

Baseball Furies wrote:I am not trying to stir the pot to get a reaction and insight some sort of insurrection or uprising against either of you, but I am sick and tired of getting PM's and emails from your clientele telling me that I'm "dead on", or "I'm glad you told them", or "keep fighting the good fight", etc. It's just bullshit. I'm sorry, but I call them like I see them, and I speak my mind. I know when I'm right, and I can admit and take responsibility when I'm wrong, but it's time for action, and I'm not wrong on this.
Okay, I know I shouldn't respond, but.....

Mikey, you are right about what?? About how we should have started this $1,000 DC 16 days early when in fact we already know 2 owners couldn't start early?? You're right about that?? And other owners in this private league are texting you saying "keep fighting the good fight"? About what? About starting a league earlier than 2 people paying $1,000 each wanted and had agreed to?? I'm sorry, but your responses are just plain, well, ...

Communication is the key to everything we do here. We don't have Saturday night surprises. We will email all 15 owners in this league to see if they can start early and we WILL start early for you die-hards if everyone agrees to the date of Feb. 11th. Fair enough. In the NFBC Diamond League that you want to change the league prize to $100,000, trust me there are several owners who want that prize to stay at $75,000 and pay down 4 places. I'm not changing that league prize because you are asking for it, I'm not changing it because people who signed up for this league WANT the prizes that are stated when they signed up. Next year if we want to create a league like you are proposing AHEAD OF TIME, done deal. We can propose it.

If people are leaving the NFBC because we're true to the rules -- stubborn, not innovative you'd call us, stupid even -- then so be it. We can't make up s--t as we go along like a local league. We have to be true to ALL 15 OWNERS in a league and make sure everyone is on board. I'm sorry to everyone in the NFBC if Tom and I are bad for that, but we've tried to explain this reasoning many times and each time there's a comeback of how stupid we are. Okay, time to agree to move on and make all of these leagues as good as they can be. Thanks all.
Greg Ambrosius
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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Winston's Empire » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:33 am

Now we are starting to all work together... Get in here guys, TEAM HUG TIME! :lol:

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You too Glenn!

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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Glenneration X » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:44 am

Greg Ambrosius wrote: is kind of funny (I hope nobody is offended by that).
So now we're not only cold dogs, but to be laughed at as well??

Image

Mikey, you gonna accept that??


Greg Ambrosius wrote:Look for an email everyone and respond to me. If all 15 can start on Feb. 11th or Feb. 12th then we'll start it up. If 1 or 2 people can't start that early then we'll stick with the Feb. 18th start time like we originally all agreed to. Simple enough. Are we good now?
All joking aside Greg, I think this is all Mikey and a few others among us who shall remain nameless (and out of the line of fire) were asking for. If we can make the earlier start happen, great. If not, no big deal either. Still, we appreciate the effort.

Also, I'd like to give you a quick thanks for helping Mikey add to my nightly entertainment these past few days. ;)

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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by ALL-IN JD » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:48 am

As a rank outsider I think the best way to "reward" this league is to replace MTM with Marcel!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:59 am

Glenneration X wrote:
Greg Ambrosius wrote: is kind of funny (I hope nobody is offended by that).
So now we're not only cold dogs, but to be laughed at as well??

Image

Mikey, you gonna accept that??


Greg Ambrosius wrote:Look for an email everyone and respond to me. If all 15 can start on Feb. 11th or Feb. 12th then we'll start it up. If 1 or 2 people can't start that early then we'll stick with the Feb. 18th start time like we originally all agreed to. Simple enough. Are we good now?
All joking aside Greg, I think this is all Mikey and a few others among us who shall remain nameless (and out of the line of fire) were asking for. If we can make the earlier start happen, great. If not, no big deal either. Still, we appreciate the effort.

Also, I'd like to give you a quick thanks for helping Mikey add to my nightly entertainment these past few days. ;)
I can close my eyes and picture you in my grade school now. You were the antagonist who created the fights between two guys and then stepped away when the teacher came into the room, right? Then you snickered as both guys got pulled to the principal's office by their ears!! :lol: I'm glad you had fun. All you did was get Mikey all riled up enough to write a 2,000 word post in one paragraph without any commas or periods. Sheesh.

This isn't all Mikey and a few others wanted, but it's what was needed. I know Mike sent out an email to all the owners in the league because that's how we got contacted. NOT EVERYONE WAS ON BOARD WITH STARTING EARLY. They don't want to tell him that because he's so damn passionate about starting early, so they told us. And we tried to tell him, but he instead blamed us for not starting early. So we now go back to everyone and ask if the 11th works for them. It's called direct communication and it's not that hard. We'll poll the group and let you know what the responses are shortly.
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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by chest .rockwell » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:35 am

Greg,

I learned a long time ago to clarify that what the definition of listening to someone is.. Apparently to some of your customers if you do not do everything he wants when he wants you are not listening.

As an investor in the diamond league that he is in I like the 4 payouts, not three. I appreciate you not being bullied in to changing something that was agreed upon before a single sign up took place.

I do think through all of that noise you need to be listening for the level of frustration that some of these enhancements are taking way too long and that frankly a very good product has not improved all that much in the mind of the consumer in the past few years. I try to form personal relationships with my customers as you do. The longer I do that the more I realize it is hard for them to voice displeasure because of the relationship and when they do I have ways of dealing with that less than productively. I am trying to get better and giving them a forum to talk to me about how my company is letting them down.
Debating that does no good for any of us, but the good news is that there is so much right about this contest that there is still time to "recatch" back up on a couple of things.

One last note to anyone reading this who is on the fence. I do not really like fantasy baseball all that much anymore. I have determined that the only way I was competetive against this level of competition was to work harder and love it. Now that I have lost that I am dead money and I know it. I am still contemplating getting a team this year... Why because I love this group of guys and with all of the complaining some legit some not IMO this is a top notch run live event. If you are on the fence maybe that is a reason in and of itself to step in.

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Re: Draft Order For 3rd Annual $1,000 Draft Champions

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:20 am

chest .rockwell wrote:I do think through all of that noise you need to be listening for the level of frustration that some of these enhancements are taking way too long and that frankly a very good product has not improved all that much in the mind of the consumer in the past few years. I try to form personal relationships with my customers as you do. The longer I do that the more I realize it is hard for them to voice displeasure because of the relationship and when they do I have ways of dealing with that less than productively. I am trying to get better and giving them a forum to talk to me about how my company is letting them down.
Thanks for the feedback Kent (aka Dead Money!!)

Tom and I always communicate as much as possible with our customers via email, phone or even Live Chats. We'll do a Live Chat every Tuesday so that folks can ask questions or voice their displeasures here as they see fit. We'll gladly answer any and all questions about our event.

As for the technical enhancements being frustrating or our site not improving in 2 years, well, hopefully we'll alleviate all of that frustration this season with improved Live Scoring, the addictive Live Overall Standings for all of the national contests, and the mobile app. Our site is definitely better than it was at Fanball and it's better than it was two years ago, but it can be better. Those three areas are important for the instantaneous pleasure we now get out of this game. And we know that if we hit a home run there that you folks will enjoy this game so much that you will return in full force in future years and in future sports. We certainly get it and we want to be the very best in technology as much as you want it. Heck, we're STATS, we should be the best Live Scoring site around, so let's do it.

And there are other things we can do on the tech side to make life easier for you. The pulldown for all of your teams is fantastic for some areas of the site, but now let's do it for everything. There are other areas we are working on to make the site more efficient for you, the players. I don't know if all of it will be done by Opening Day, but we're on it. We want to make our back-end game engine as good as it possibly can be and you folks are giving us the suggestions to make it the very best it can be. Now it's on us to get as much of it done as possible by Opening Day.
Greg Ambrosius
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