Braun Suspended For Rest Of 2013 Season

[Outlaw]

Baseball does not need an actual drug test to suspend

I have pk 14 in the upcoming Fri. night DC Express. Help me out here Outlaw

Rockit Bruan if he's still there

[Outlaw]

I dont follow the actual game of baseball like many of you do. Can someone post the name of any player suspended for PED use without testing positive? Thanks

Jordan schafer in the minors.Minor league rule is different though.

They got Manny in 2009 for 50 games, not because of a failed test, but a copy of a prescription for a banned substance from, you guessed it, this Clinic in Miami.

As for can they suspend for not failing the test, the simple answer is yes: from the current CBA - "MLB can discipline a player without a positive test if there is a preponderance of evidence that the person doped or tried to dope. It's called a "non-analytic positive."

The Commissioner can also suspend under his " Best Interests of Baseball powers"

As for this latest mess, MLB has been all over this Miami clinic since 2009 and the Manny incident...they really started to put it together with the Melky incident last year. This is not the only clinic/Doctors that are on MLB’s radar either, including overseas ones. The PED problem is still a lot bigger and involves a lot more players than anyone suspects. There so many forms and methods of HGH/PED delvery into someone’s body, they cannot just rely on testing as the masking and evasion technologies have become so advanced.
I’m not going to condemn or convict any player, but where there is smoke there is fire and how many times do we need to find out sometime in the future that these all the players who at first denied, denied, denied, later come clean and say they did what they were accused of. Pete Rose lied for 15 years before he came clean. Arod lied for years too…

They will follow the money, the receipts, the pictures, the travel itineraries, witnesses, and documents in addition to testing to catch these clowns. The biggest thing about all this crap is the example it has been setting for the young kids who play sports. High School Roid use and PEDS is rampant and has been since around 1998 or so, because they see the examples of the “stars”.

[Outlaw]

Baseball does not need an actual drug test to suspend

Really? Then what type of evidence is legitimate? Who's word does MLB believe? They obviously didn't believe Piss Boy last yr or Bug Eyes would've gotten the 50 he deserved. Seriously, if an actual positive drug test is not needed than what IS the process by which they determine guilt or innocence now?quote]

As For Braun, they thought they had him last year. MLB elected to go with the falied test to suspend him. They knew about this clinic and others then, but were not prepared to go that route with Braun at the time. They had names and thats how they know to target them and they did get Melky and Colon. Braun got off on technicality regarding "Test Handling" and loopholes in the procedures. The " special master" arbitrator who ruled in his favor never did explain why. I guess he was smitten with his sincere "Denial" press confrences he held. Braun is smart, out front and has good lawyers and has chosen the Deny, Deny, Deny and deny some more strategy.

As you said Rockit, he desereved the 50 games, IMO too.

[Tom Kessenich]

I don't believe any of these guys will get suspended unless they actually get tested positive. I cannot see how its possible. Being linked and being tested positive are 2 different things.

Yup. And in Braun's case there is nothing directly linking him to PEDs and his statement last night provides a reasonable and credible explanation for why his name is in the books. Again, if he's lying and there is a smoking gun then things are going to change. But given the information presently available, Braun's explanation and his impeccable past conduct (only having failed one test and that was overturned and was rather dubious at the time) I can't think of any way he faces any disciplinary action here, much less a significant suspension of any kind.

[NorCalAtlFan]

"impeccable past conduct" would mean faultless, no? if he failed a test, that wouldn't be considered impeccable.

i like braun and hopefully his latest excuse holds up, but at some point, it becomes harder and harder to believe he is a victim of poor circumstance(s).

[Greg Ambrosius]

I don't know if Braun used PEDs in the past or not, but let's all admit that he would have been a fool to use them last year with everyone watching him. And this report doesn't mention anything about PED purchases at any time -- certainly not in 2012. And honestly, he was the same player in 2012 that he was in 2011:

2011: .332-33-111-33, 109 runs, .397 OBP
2012: .319-41-112-30, 108 runs, .391 OBP

The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel didn't have much more insight on the matter today, outside of Braun's side of the story:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/189929061.html

Braun will certainly be asked for documentation that he in fact did owe this person money for his help in fighting the first case. It would be pretty stupid to make that up on the whim, and the fact that his lawyer is mentioned on those documents does seem to lend some credence to his explanation. But the facts will come out.

It's certainly interesting, but I'm not sure there's anything here that gets Braun a 50-game suspension. I'm sure more can come out and it will, but right now I'm not sure he drops at all in upcoming NFBC drafts. We'll sure find out shortly, though.

[Tom Kessenich]

"impeccable past conduct" would mean faultless, no? if he failed a test, that wouldn't be considered impeccable.

Granted I'm a layman (although I may sleep at a Holiday Inn tonight with another blizzard coming our way ) but I thought the test he allegedly failed was extremely dubious given the results and the fact he had never failed over 20 documented tests previously. Not to mention the fact his career production has been remarkably consistent without any noticeable spike at any time. Again, I acknowledge my Brewers' bias but I have found Braun to be entirely credible and his conduct impeccable as a pro player.

[Outlaw]

sometimes 1+1 does equal 2.

I'm not out to get Braun or any player and in all fairness the truth and facts have to all be shown and proven, but when are these players going to learn.

From Braun last night: “There was a dispute over compensation for Bosch’s work, which is why my lawyer and I are listed under ‘moneys owed’ and not on any other list,” Braun said. “I have nothing to hide and have never had any other relationship with Bosch. I will fully cooperate with any inquiry into this matter.”

IMO he is just digging himslef a deeper hole and MLB definately has him at the top of their list. Why would anyone in thier right mind have anything to do with that clinic and that creep Bosch. It's a simple answer, because legit clinics, doctors, programs do not provide what these players seek.

Consider that:

Braun may draw particular scrutiny from baseball officials because they were angered that he evaded punishment last year on what they viewed as a technicality. Their suspicions of Braun have been heightened because the substance that he tested positive for in the fall of 2011 — an elevated level of testosterone — is the same one that subsequently led to the suspensions for Colon, Grandal and Cabrera.
Now all four have been linked to the Bosch clinic by various documents — as have two others, a teammate of Braun’s at the University of Miami and a trainer for the university who has worked with Braun.
Baseball is also mindful that when Braun appealed his positive drug test, he was required to provide detailed information, including the names of doctors and others he consulted for medical reasons. If baseball’s investigators were to uncover evidence that Braun was treated by Bosch at some point and did not disclose it during his appeal, he could be suspended for lying.

Bosch is not a licensed physician in Florida, where he has lived for much of his life, and it’s unclear where he went to college or what medical expertise he has. According to a person with knowledge of the matter, Bosch’s name was never cited by Braun’s side during the appeal process.

As for the 49-year-old Bosch, he has left a trail of failed businesses, lawsuits, broken marriages and unpaid child support, according to the Miami New Times article. It said Bosch had joined with partners to launch numerous ventures in the medical field, only to have them later fail. Eventually, he headed for Belize and returned with a degree from Central America Health Sciences University. In 2009, along with partners, he started businesses called Colonial Services, then Biokem and, finally, last year, Biogenesis. And now he has created a major headache for baseball.

Brauns ADP will drop like a lead ballon until and if he is cleared by MLB. IMO he may not just be looking at 50 games either if this goes bad for him. Then again, if he MLB clears him he will skyrocket in ADP just like last season.

[Tom Kessenich]

I agree MLB likely wants to put the hammer on Braun in a big way. But in my opinion they will need a lot more than what's currently been produced to get him. Thus far, there's nothing that has been produced that would warrant a suspension. If Braun did hire Bosch as a consultant in some fashion (and it strains credibility to think he would just make that up), there's nothing that would result in a suspension merely on those grounds. And thus far, that's all there is - no links to PEDs and Braun's name merely on the books. And he's provided a credible explanation for why his name appears there.

[Outlaw]

I agree MLB likely wants to put the hammer on Braun in a big way. But in my opinion they will need a lot more than what's currently been produced to get him. Thus far, there's nothing that has been produced that would warrant a suspension. If Braun did hire Bosch as a consultant in some fashion (and it strains credibility to think he would just make that up), there's nothing that would result in a suspension merely on those grounds. And thus far, that's all there is - no links to PEDs and Braun's name merely on the books. And he's provided a credible explanation for why his name appears there.

They will follow the money. The 20-30k linked to Braun is supposedly unpaid "money owed". How long before creeps like Bosch turn, Or one of the other player names turn in return for leniancy, especially with the FEDS involved, which they have been for some time. It's not just MLB going after them.

I agree more has to be proven, but at the very least Braun's judgement has to be questioned. I wonder who the other 10-15 unreleased as of yet, names are? Anyone care to guess?

[Ando]

I consider his credibility strained for "hiring" this bozo as a "consultant" in the first place.

Last night's "explanation" was exactly what you would expect Braun to say.

This whole story is the same song and dance we've seen with Pete Rose, Lance Armstong, Mark McGwire, Raffy P, and all the other clowns who are pathological liars.

Anyone defending Braun is a homer --was last year, is now. Take two steps back and look at this whole story the past 18 months. We've seen this movie before.

[Tom Kessenich]

I agree MLB likely wants to put the hammer on Braun in a big way. But in my opinion they will need a lot more than what's currently been produced to get him. Thus far, there's nothing that has been produced that would warrant a suspension. If Braun did hire Bosch as a consultant in some fashion (and it strains credibility to think he would just make that up), there's nothing that would result in a suspension merely on those grounds. And thus far, that's all there is - no links to PEDs and Braun's name merely on the books. And he's provided a credible explanation for why his name appears there.

They will follow the money. The 20-30k linked to Braun is supposedly unpaid "money owed". How long before creeps like Bosch turn, Or one of the other player names turn in return for leniancy, especially with the FEDS involved, which they have been for some time. It's not just MLB going after them.

Again, we can speculate on whether more info will surface and as I've said if it does that could/will change everything. All I'm saying is that based on what's been released thus far, there's nothing that would even remotely indicate a suspension of any kind is coming Braun's way.

I agree that if he's guilty of anything right now it's bad judgment in terms of hiring Bosch to begin with. Braun had to know who this guy was and what the clinic was about. Of course, maybe he thought if anyone knew how the system worked it was Bosch so hiring him as an expert witness of some kind may help prove why his test turned up positive in the first place. Braun's lawyer said today Bosch's role was "negligible" in the process which would support why Braun said there was a dispute in terms of payment.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Before last night's news, Braun was clearly the No. 1 pick in recent NFBC drafts. We'll talk about this on the air tonight, but he has gone No. 1 in 4 of the last 5 NFBC drafts and he's gone No. 1 more than Cabrera and Trout through 55+ NFBC Drafts. He's now No. 1 on our ADP list ahead of Cabrera and Braun. We have another DC tonight and we'll announce that result in our lead segment. He has never gone outside of the Top 3 before tonight and we'll see if he does now. I don't see any evidence to say he should drop, but again, we'll see.

Interestingly, looking at the last week's drafts, Cano continues to be solidly in the 4th spot, while Joey Votto has gone 5th, 6th, 7th in the last three drafts. He's gone one spot ahead of Pujols in each draft. Andrew McCutchen has gone 4th, 5th and 7th, but before then he went 9th twice. Matt Kemp has gone 8th, 8th, 9th, but before then he went 4th, 5th, 6th. So after the Top 3 it gets interesting and it's hard to see Braun going outside the Top 3 with a few question marks also following the next guys.

[Tom Kessenich]

This whole story is the same song and dance we've seen with Pete Rose, Lance Armstong, Mark McGwire, Raffy P, and all the other clowns who are pathological liars.

The significant difference is there was a mountain of evidence against all of those athletes over years and years. With Braun it's one failed test and that test was rather extraordinary in nature. So even the results were called into question. I think that's a rather huge difference. If that makes me a homer, so be it. I can live with that.

[Joe Sambito]

Greg,

I am sitting in the 3-hole tonight. Decisions, Decisions, Decisions...

[Edwards Kings]

Just my two cents and we all know what two cents is worth.

I never thought Braun was guilty in the first place. Test results were ridiculously high.

Braun was scrambling to restore his reputation and his lawyer reached out to many people evidently, including this scumbag.

Scumbag business people will often pump up revenues with ficticious or overvalued transactions which would leave outstanding recievable balances. Not saying this scumbag did, but scumbags do.

I agree with Greg that last years numbers, while under extreme scrutiny, seem to indicate he is the same player. He restored his reputation on the field, which is as it should be.

In any draft spot I have, and Braun in available, I am on him.

[Tom Kessenich]

Just my two cents and we all know what two cents is worth.

I never thought Braun was guilty in the first place. Test results were ridiculously high.

Braun was scrambling to restore his reputation and his lawyer reached out to many people evidently, including this scumbag.

Scumbag business people will often pump up revenues with ficticious or overvalued transactions which would leave outstanding recievable balances. Not saying this scumbag did, but scumbags do.

I agree with Greg that last years numbers, while under extreme scrutiny, seem to indicate he is the same player. He restored his reputation on the field, which is as it should be.

In any draft spot I have, and Braun in available, I am on him.

Well said. MLB ran a photo of Braun in college and pointed out that physically he's the same guy now he was then. For someone who was supposed to be using PEDs there's been no physical change like there so often has been with others. And of course no change in production either. I never thought Braun was guilty either and that isn't me being a Brewers homer. So much didn't pass the sniff test. And nothing came out last night that would lead me to re-think my position.

[Tom Kessenich]

Good explanation from a lawyer explaining why Braun's team reached out to Bosch:

http://brewersbeat.mlblogs.com/2013/02/ ... um=twitter

[Outlaw]

I agree that if he's guilty of anything right now it's bad judgment in terms of hiring Bosch to begin with. Braun had to know who this guy was and what the clinic was about. Of course, maybe he thought if anyone knew how the system worked it was Bosch so hiring him as an expert witness of some kind may help prove why his test turned up positive in the first place. Braun's lawyer said today Bosch's role was "negligible" in the process which would support why Braun said there was a dispute in terms of payment.

[/quote]

You are really reaching Tom in thinking hiring that clown helped him. One could also say he used the source of the supposed PEDS to help him defend himslef. In all fairness, if it was Jeter, I would be reaching too...thats what Homers do... Arod, I threw him under my bus years ago....He will never be considered a real Yankee... He's a liar and a cheat!

It's just a shame that All the fans have to hear this crap.... its disgusting and is ruining a great game...

In terms of Fantasy for this year, its again another thing Drafters have to consider that has nothing to do with the game. There will be drafters who stay away from other players who they might think might be on PEDS or on the unamed list of others that suppsoedly exists.

[Tom Kessenich]

You are really reaching Tom in thinking hiring that clown helped him.

Check out the link I just posted. It's a statement from a lawyer supporting what I said.

[DOUGHBOYS]

We don't know if that is the only test that Braun failed, do we?
All tests, information, and appeals are not revealed.
We only know of this one time because it was leaked, correct?
Maybe I'm wrong.

It sure is a stupid process though, isn't it?
The employees get three chances to take money from the till until fired.
And if their name is tarnished or tainted, we'll take it from their pension (Hall of Fame) later.
I can't fault the players. They're not getting paid for morality.
They're getting paid to be the best they can be on the field.
The percentage of users could be anywhere from 10 to 80 per cent.
Major League Baseball seems to get a general pat on the back for its drug policy.
As is, silly. Melky Cabrera benefitted from taking PED's.
Others will too.
The benefits have to be taken away for any drug policy to work.
While schools and other organizations have a 'No Tolerance' policy, MLB has a 'We can Tolerate it Three times' policy.
It doesn't work and I won't blame the players until Major League Baseball gets its house in order.
Waiting for the Hall of Fame to punish them is laughable.

[Tom Kessenich]

We don't know if that is the only test that Braun failed, do we?

He hadn't failed any tests before the one last season and hasn't failed any since. Just that one. The one with the abnormally high testosterone results which were practically unheard of. Always struck me as very bizarre. That's why I never believed he was guilty in the first place.

[Outlaw]

You are really reaching Tom in thinking hiring that clown helped him.

Check out the link I just posted. It's a statement from a lawyer supporting what I said.

Absolutley other opinions can exist and should be respected....but there is the truth and there is the lies. In this latest mess involving PEDS it remains to be seen for the players invloved. Bottom line though is Grandal, Melky and Colon are all asscoiated with this so called lab and clowns. I suspect MLB was not ready to deal with this at this time (publicly) as they and the FEDS were already on to this lab and the player names inlvolved and were taregting the named and unnamed players with drug tests based on info they continued to acquire, knowing a failed drug test is the surest way to suspend someone. That would explain Grandal being suspended in November. They did not expect a news organization to figure it out so soon and then go public.

[Tom Kessenich]

You are really reaching Tom in thinking hiring that clown helped him.

Check out the link I just posted. It's a statement from a lawyer supporting what I said.

Absolutley other opinions can exist and should be respected....but there is the truth and there is the lies.

That's the thing, though - with regard to Braun we don't know what the truth is and what the lies may be. We all have our beliefs but with regard to this latest report there's nothing that indicates Braun is lying - unless you believe he's lied all along. That's fine if it's your point of view but there's nothing factual on which you can base it on. Again, this isn't like other athletes where a mountain of evidence has poured in year after year after year and it strains credibility to ignore it all. With Braun, it all comes down to one test which he beat. That's all there is at the present time.

[Outlaw]

MLB's latest agreement with the PA in early January invloving the “longitudinal profile program,” was going to give them a big advantage in trying to stop PEDS, but at the same time, they knew full well there would be a rush for players to elevate/change thier baselines and for MLB it would have been like taking candy from the kids as MLB ramped up thier targeted testing and started catching the offenders. They never expected this story to come out in the time frame and manner it has.