Slowest of the Slow Drafts

[crazytown]

I saw it all the previous posts.
Change the rules, don't ban someone for playing by them.

[mattjb]

I saw it all the previous posts.
Change the rules, don't ban someone for playing by them.

This attitude spoils this format.

Based on this logic we have to start each draft 250 days before opening day because that's how long it would take for 50 rounds with everyone taking the time they are allowed to.

[CALI CARTEL]

i am in dc 79 and we are barely averaging 1.5 rounds per day. the problem has been several 8 hour runoffs. one owner did not even have anyone in his que after his 8 hour runoff and the system picked Aroid for him.
the main problem though is that the owner who got the number 1 pick constantly takes near the full hours and then since he is on the turn many times HE DOES NOT EVEN MAKE HIS NEXT PICK FOR MANY HOURS when he could have made it real soon after his last pick of the previous round.
he even came into the chat room and said he was going to take 16 hours on purpose to make his 2 picks on the turn.
tonight he made a pick and then waited like 3 or 4 hours more to take his next pick.
he has also stated he wants the draft to take a real long time and my guess is that wants to be drafting as near the season starting as possible in order to know what the situation is on all the real MLB players leading right up to the start of the season.
owners have posted in the chat room and even sent emails and he is just a smart ass so he takes even longer on purpose.
it would be real good for the NFBC if they could ban him next year from slow drafts.

Picking from the ends, you should want the draft to go as fast as possible -- news reports don't help you as much, you only get one "window" where news helps you on your picks, where as everyone gets two (albeit the 2nd/3rd & 13th/14th picks get a small window on one side).

[Baseball Furies]

I don't think the personal clocks are going to work unless everyone in a draft is in the same time zone. When exceptions, as shutting the clock off for sleep like mentioned in one of the posts above, has to be created for it to work, it seems like it's going to be difficult to me. I'll admit I'm not an IT guy, so maybe it's easier than I think.

If there is going to be a change for next season, I think the suggestion Dan (Doughboys) came up with of FAST, MEDIUM and SLOW is the way to go. STATS can definitely set this up right in the signup page and have something in the rules to explain what each one means:

FAST - Expectation for this DC format is a quick pace, typically 6-8 rounds per day but can be more. Be prepared to pick throughout the day and/or communicate to your fellow drafters in the league message chat room why you will not be able to pick.

MEDIUM - Expectation for this DC format is a slow pace during the day, picking up the pace at night when everyone is home from work. The pace of these drafts are typically 3-4 rounds per day. Communication and courtesy is expected in the league message boards when you know you won't be able to make your pick.

SLOW - Expectation for this DC format is for players to be able to take the maximum time for each pick and have a very slow pace. The pace of these drafts are 0-2 rounds per day.

My slow explanation is admittedly bad because I always try to have courtesy for my fellow drafters, so of course would need to be changed. I think I hit the FAST and MEDIUM styles pretty much to what they are. Anyway, this would accomplish a few things:

1. Would set the expectations for new players that don't understand how the clock is intended to work for these drafts.
2. Would stop the "I have 8 hours excuses". If you want that right, pick SLOW or prepare to explain why you are not following the rules. Also, if people in the SLOW really took their alloted time, leagues would take months because there wouldn't be the 10+ people to bail them out of their maximum time picks each round. My guess is there would be very few of the SLOW leagues.

Something to think about for next year as all of us are either finished or close to finishing the DC format and looking forward to our live drafts approaching quicker by the day.

Great post, Mark. This is an option that should seriously be considered for next season.

[crazytown]

Some people don't care about the other 14 drafters. Plain and simple. As proven by some of the comments posted earlier in this thread. Unless you change the rules, people will still draft the way they want to.
I'm not sticking up for or saying I am one of those drafters. Just be aware that when you join a league you may end up in this situation.
I say, change the rules.

[Daren E]

In response to an earlier question on the chat room -- in the DC95 league that was the subject of my initial post on this thread, there has been very little activity at all in the chat room in the draft room. Not too much bashing, a couple owners sent out fairly polite emails, but in general it has been pretty quiet.

Update from this morning -- today we are in the middle of the 16th round and 10 days into the draft -- so the administrator stopped our draft a bit ago and changed the clock to 6 hours per pick. It's a good move and a necessary one to finish by opening day, but I'm not sure that's going to speed things up a whole lot. There have actually been very few picks that used the entire 8 hour clock. But there have been a huge number in the 4-6 hour range by a number of different owners. Our situation is pretty much due to a group effort except for the minority of quick pickers.

I am a bit worried about getting my 7-8 hours of sleep in at night. What if I go to bed and a miracle happens and 6 people pick after that and put me on the clock. I guess I need to keep my queue full !!!

[Greg Ambrosius]

In response to an earlier question on the chat room -- in the DC95 league that was the subject of my initial post on this thread, there has been very little activity at all in the chat room in the draft room. Not too much bashing, a couple owners sent out fairly polite emails, but in general it has been pretty quiet.

Update from this morning -- today we are in the middle of the 16th round and 10 days into the draft -- so the administrator stopped our draft a bit ago and changed the clock to 6 hours per pick. It's a good move and a necessary one to finish by opening day, but I'm not sure that's going to speed things up a whole lot. There have actually been very few picks that used the entire 8 hour clock. But there have been a huge number in the 4-6 hour range by a number of different owners. Our situation is pretty much due to a group effort except for the minority of quick pickers.

I am a bit worried about getting my 7-8 hours of sleep in at night. What if I go to bed and a miracle happens and 6 people pick after that and put me on the clock. I guess I need to keep my queue full !!!

Darin, thre was no way this group was going to finish 35 rounds in 13 days, so we had no choice but to decrease the time between picks. It is now at 6 hours per pick and everyone should learn how to use the 1 Round Auto Pick feature. Folks can still go to bed and if they are a few picks away then load up your Que and keep things moving. This is a unique group of owners where nobody is using the Auto Pick feature and everyone is taking the full time. Something needs to move this league along or we're going to really have to speed things up in the final week. Good luck and keep prodding these folks to pick faster.

[Daren E]

Yep - Greg, I understand the situation and agree with the move as extremely necessary. How do the 4-hour drafts work as far as the clock? Does the clock pause at night or are people forced to use autopick or fill up their queues at night to compensate for "sleep time"? Like I mentioned, I don't know if 6 hours will do the trick for us, it may only gain us 1-2 picks more per day than we have been doing. So I would bet that in another several days you may have to accelerate it to 4 hours, so just wondering how the 4-hour drafts have been working.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Yep - Greg, I understand the situation and agree with the move as extremely necessary. How do the 4-hour drafts work as far as the clock? Does the clock pause at night or are people forced to use autopick or fill up their queues at night to compensate for "sleep time"? Like I mentioned, I don't know if 6 hours will do the trick for us, it may only gain us 1-2 picks more per day than we have been doing. So I would bet that in another several days you may have to accelerate it to 4 hours, so just wondering how the 4-hour drafts have been working.

4 hour drafters know how to use the 1 Round Auto Pick feature. If you are 3 picks away, put in 3 players in your Que and go to sleep. Easy enough. YOu'll get the top player available.

[Fourslot40]

Yep - Greg, I understand the situation and agree with the move as extremely necessary. How do the 4-hour drafts work as far as the clock? Does the clock pause at night or are people forced to use autopick or fill up their queues at night to compensate for "sleep time"? Like I mentioned, I don't know if 6 hours will do the trick for us, it may only gain us 1-2 picks more per day than we have been doing. So I would bet that in another several days you may have to accelerate it to 4 hours, so just wondering how the 4-hour drafts have been working.

4 hour drafters know how to use the 1 Round Auto Pick feature. If you are 3 picks away, put in 3 players in your Que and go to sleep. Easy enough. YOu'll get the top player available.

This may or may not be a stupid question. I'm not in one of these, but it's part of why I didn't do a faster DC outside of the Express. If everyone uses the round 1 auto-pick feature at night, wouldn't it just come right back to the same owner within the minute?

[DOUGHBOYS]

Yep - Greg, I understand the situation and agree with the move as extremely necessary. How do the 4-hour drafts work as far as the clock? Does the clock pause at night or are people forced to use autopick or fill up their queues at night to compensate for "sleep time"? Like I mentioned, I don't know if 6 hours will do the trick for us, it may only gain us 1-2 picks more per day than we have been doing. So I would bet that in another several days you may have to accelerate it to 4 hours, so just wondering how the 4-hour drafts have been working.

4 hour drafters know how to use the 1 Round Auto Pick feature. If you are 3 picks away, put in 3 players in your Que and go to sleep. Easy enough. YOu'll get the top player available.

This may or may not be a stupid question. I'm not in one of these, but it's part of why I didn't do a faster DC outside of the Express. If everyone uses the round 1 auto-pick feature at night, wouldn't it just come right back to the same owner within the minute?

You won't find 15 drafters in any draft all willing to use auto or auto one. If it somehow did happen, the pace of the draft would never be in question.
What it will do is start the clock on somebody unwilling to use auto or auto one and possibly have the draft run a little more freer during daylight hours.

[Daren E]

OK, fair enough. One thing I'd like to see during the draft is the elapsed time for each pick and the cumulative time on the clock for each owner for the current draft. When we draft our local leagues on the CBS website (1 of which is a slow draft for FB), it shows the time it took for each pick, and then at the end of the draft on the Draft Results page it shows the cumulative time for each owner for all their picks. Could be a useful tool to see at a glance who the culprits are in the current draft, and who to avoid in future drafts. Although Greg may not want to publish that information for prior drafts because there'd be all kinds of people on the so-called "black list" that people would try to avoid and it may hamper signups a bit...

[DOUGHBOYS]

OK, fair enough. One thing I'd like to see during the draft is the elapsed time for each pick and the cumulative time on the clock for each owner for the current draft. When we draft our local leagues on the CBS website (1 of which is a slow draft for FB), it shows the time it took for each pick, and then at the end of the draft on the Draft Results page it shows the cumulative time for each owner for all their picks. Could be a useful tool to see at a glance who the culprits are in the current draft, and who to avoid in future drafts. Although Greg may not want to publish that information for prior drafts because there'd be all kinds of people on the so-called "black list" that people would try to avoid and it may hamper signups a bit...

It would especially be of use if we have
Fast/slow's
Medium/Slow's
Slow/Slow's

Those on that 'list' would be automatically be assigned to Slow/Slow's.
They would then have to prove themselves in a later draft to move up to Medium/Slow status.
The Slow drafters depend on the kindness and reliability of faster drafters to get these drafts done. If 'sent to their room' with 14 like drafters, they may see the light. Or, they may have found their Shangri-La and love it there.
Until then, we will get drafters who feel the eight hours are 'their' hours.

[Daren E]

I love it!

[jwillh9181]

OK, fair enough. One thing I'd like to see during the draft is the elapsed time for each pick and the cumulative time on the clock for each owner for the current draft. When we draft our local leagues on the CBS website (1 of which is a slow draft for FB), it shows the time it took for each pick, and then at the end of the draft on the Draft Results page it shows the cumulative time for each owner for all their picks. Could be a useful tool to see at a glance who the culprits are in the current draft, and who to avoid in future drafts. Although Greg may not want to publish that information for prior drafts because there'd be all kinds of people on the so-called "black list" that people would try to avoid and it may hamper signups a bit...

If something is not done Greg is going to have to worry about more and more of us not signing up for slow drafts next year. I will very wary to sign up for them next year if things do not change/improve.

I am convinced that most of the slow owners do not realize what they are doing the rest of us and also do not understand if all of the owners did what they were doing it would never get done. Having a "time per pick" section for everybody to look at would really help imo, I know if I was the slowest drafter I would try to speed up. Most do not use the Auto one, partly because they have not be educated/taught/urged to use it. There is guy in one of my on going drafts that has done over 20 of these DC this year and has not gone auto one once, even when he is one draft spot out, it boggles the mind.

I would not sign up for a draft that has a limited(24hours) of time to use, things happen especially over 3 weeks. Also most of the drafts I have been in have had mostly Eastern Standard time particapants, I am in CA which makes problems.

NFBC needs to communicate what to expect and how to use the options that are available, instead of just signing people up for 8 hour clock drafts, "cool I have 8 hours for each pick".

[TParsons]

I understand both sides of this argument. I was involved in a four hour slow draft earlier this season with some other NFBC vets which was by far the most enjoyable slow draft I've ever been involved in...it's really not even close. I think that what made this run so smoothly is that everybody understood what they were signing up for. We were courteous to each other (with the exception of MTM and Gekko to each other ) and picked in a timely manner. When somebody had to be out, we communicated. Mikey took it upon himself to be the "moderator" and did a fine job.

The reason I described the above is because I'm in two more slow drafts right now, and I hate to say it, but I wish I had never signed up for them after the great 4 hour draft experience. My reasoning is not because of the slow pace, as many have described, but because of the lack of courtesy. People need to understand that there are new customers coming in that may not know the expectation in these drafts. Belittling the players that are taking their time does not help the cause. In my experience with these drafts, it actually hurts. In these two drafts I've had the great pleasure of seeing accusations of collusion, some excellent name calling, multiple f bombs, and this gem as a response to a player drafting slowly, "we killed bin laden, perhaps we killed the wrong man...just saying -"<<<<<<<<<this guy is the epitome of Dough's infamous Yahoo! Kid. This example is just one of many.>>>>>> Now in retaliation, the other player has promised that his last 8 picks will be of the 8 hour variety. I guess what I'm trying to say is two wrongs don't make a right in this case. We need to try to be understanding, and at least try to explain to the new drafters that just because we have eight hours does not mean that we can use the full clock. We also need to understand that in order to grow this thing, Greg and Tom need some of these new drafters to turn into regular customers. This is their baby and behavior as I've described above is definitely not going to help to further enhance the customer base.

[Daren E]

I still think the 24-hour cumulative clock idea has merit as an option. I don't think we're suggesting that the NFBC change ALL future DC drafts to this format, it would just be another option to sign up for at your own will (i.e. DC leagues would be designated 4-hour per pick, 8-hour per pick, 24-hour cumulative, express, etc.).

With the 24-hour cumulative clock, the clock would have to pause for at least a few hours each night. I would suggest 2:00 am to 7:00 am eastern, which would be 11:00 pm to 4:00 am for the pacific folks. Picks could still be made all night, but nobody's clock would be running. The somewhat short time to pause the clock at night is a compromise between moving the draft along and making sure nobody's clock would be running for more than a couple of hours during sleep time on either coast.

[PGromek]

[Fourslot40]

OK, fair enough. One thing I'd like to see during the draft is the elapsed time for each pick and the cumulative time on the clock for each owner for the current draft. When we draft our local leagues on the CBS website (1 of which is a slow draft for FB), it shows the time it took for each pick, and then at the end of the draft on the Draft Results page it shows the cumulative time for each owner for all their picks. Could be a useful tool to see at a glance who the culprits are in the current draft, and who to avoid in future drafts. Although Greg may not want to publish that information for prior drafts because there'd be all kinds of people on the so-called "black list" that people would try to avoid and it may hamper signups a bit...

If something is not done Greg is going to have to worry about more and more of us not signing up for slow drafts next year. I will very wary to sign up for them next year if things do not change/improve.

I am convinced that most of the slow owners do not realize what they are doing the rest of us and also do not understand if all of the owners did what they were doing it would never get done. Having a "time per pick" section for everybody to look at would really help imo, I know if I was the slowest drafter I would try to speed up. Most do not use the Auto one, partly because they have not be educated/taught/urged to use it. There is guy in one of my on going drafts that has done over 20 of these DC this year and has not gone auto one once, even when he is one draft spot out, it boggles the mind.

I would not sign up for a draft that has a limited(24hours) of time to use, things happen especially over 3 weeks. Also most of the drafts I have been in have had mostly Eastern Standard time particapants, I am in CA which makes problems.

NFBC needs to communicate what to expect and how to use the options that are available, instead of just signing people up for 8 hour clock drafts, "cool I have 8 hours for each pick".

Search the boards. Greg and others have been consistently adamant about using appropriate ettiquette in this format. People can't do much more to improve it than what has already been done under the 8 hour format. This is why other formats such as the East/ West Coast, 2-4 hour and Express formats exist.

[Outlaw]

Search the boards. Greg and others have been consistently adamant about using appropriate ettiquette in this format. People can't do much more to improve it than what has already been done under the 8 hour format. This is why other formats such as the East/ West Coast, 2-4 hour and Express formats exist.

Well said - NFBC has made a lot of improvements and is diligent and clear in thier commincations on rules and expectations. The only ones who will not be playing in these in future years are those that are not that interested anyhow. Most of the "veteran" players and also most of the new players have had a great time this Draft season.

[jwillh9181]

Search the boards. Greg and others have been consistently adamant about using appropriate ettiquette in this format. People can't do much more to improve it than what has already been done under the 8 hour format. This is why other formats such as the East/ West Coast, 2-4 hour and Express formats exist.[/quote]

This is the problem you have to search the boards to find any of the problems with these DC's, you can't expect new DC players to also be forum readers.

I am in the last 8 hour DC and nothing was sent about expectations or ettiquette before we started. Below is what was sent out once I signed up.

Don't get me wrong I only writing this to hopefully make things better for next year, but the average new DC owner is not getting the message on expectations and ettiquette for these leagues.

Dear john!,

Thank you for registering with the National Fantasy Baseball Championship.

You are now registered to take part in the $150 Draft Champions - Online, Drafts When League Fills .

You can access your team by going to http://nfbc.stats.com/signup/login.asp and using the following information:

Username:
Password:

If you have any questions please contact Greg Ambrosius or Tom Kessenich or call them at 715 445-2906.




Thank you,

National Fantasy Baseball Championship