Braun Suspended For Rest Of 2013 Season

[Tom Kessenich]

Greg and I talked about Braun last night on our STATS Fantasy Advantage show. Here's an excerpt:

https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmsports/t ... dvantage-8

[CASS]

Haven't we seen this story before? This guy is a loser dealer who got caught, is now broke, and to avoid prosectution for selling illegal drugs (remember he's the only one who has committed a CRIME) is now rolling over from insane pressure by MLB. Without PROOF of 1st hand use accounts from CREDIBILE witnesses (not this loser) what could this case be based on? A notebook with names? Anyone who thinks this is going to be a quick process does not know our legal system and the players union. I see another Clemens/Bonds type witch hunt that ends with nothing....

[Tom Kessenich]

I Tweeted this yesterday but I strongly recommend reading HardballTalk.com and especially the columns by Craig Calcaterra. It's extremely well done in discussing the issue.

[Money]

Everyone keeps crying for due process to protect their hero's. I could care less about tony boesch and what he represents. And to some in this crowd, he represents that anybody with a suspect past can't possibly be witness to anything else the rest of their lives. Killers go free because of this crap. Players like criminals will attempt to get off anyway they can. The evidence keeps coming but they'll find another loophole or they'll just throw as much money at it as possible to save their reputation and paycheck. It's time for these guys to pay the piper. I agree with those that believe nothing will change until the penalty's are harsher.

Our civil court system is better than the criminal system we have. The burden of proof is less and justice sometimes has to be served there, to justify (get justice) for obvious criminal acts. OJ is as far as I have to go with that.

Baseball is as much to blame here. They are taking their time, which is fine, but leaking the stuff is unacceptable. A lot more has transpired than any of us know. They leak only what they want to leak. Possibly to soften the blow when the extraordinary inevitable happens. This week, next month, next year, It's coming and it's coming to a town near all of us.

The owners are ridiculous with this clown that they call a commissioner. This would have been cleaned up long ago under Bowie Kuhn, Bart Geomatti or Fay Vincent.

[Hells Satans]

Due process sucks until you need it. Ask the kids on the Duke Lacrosse team

[Tom Kessenich]

If presumption of innocence was good enough for our founding fathers it should be good enough for MLB (or any other sports governing authority) in my opinion.

[Money]

Due process sucks until you need it. Ask the kids on the Duke Lacrosse team

You could site a million such reasons and be correct on every one of them. How about the kid that gets raped and murdered because a pedophile gets let go because of non credible witnesses. I'll site as many of those as you want.

The point is that there are exceptions and flaws to all forms of justice and everyone attempts to latch on to them out of sheer survival. It doesn't make them right.

[Money]

If presumption of innocence was good enough for our founding fathers it should be good enough for MLB (or any other sports governing authority) in my opinion.

With liberty and justice for all.

[Tom Kessenich]

If presumption of innocence was good enough for our founding fathers it should be good enough for MLB (or any other sports governing authority) in my opinion.

With liberty and justice for all.

Works for me.

[Outlaw]

Those were some good opinions on Hardball times. The user comments were even more interesting. For many it appears they come down on one side or the other. Those that defend the players and feel Bosch is a Dirtbag liar and lacks credibility. Then those who feel the players are the dirtbags and liars and cheaters. Bosch wasn't a dirtbag or liar before this broke, he was making a lot of money, probably illegally though from his clients. His clients were athletes and a lot of baseball players. What does that make them? Smart and clean as the driven snow for being associated with him? No one knows who to believe in this mess, but what has been "leaked" so far says Bosch is dirtbag and so are the players involved. Arod has already admitted once to using PEDS and we are to believe that this time he didn't? Braun tested positive and we are to believe the Handler and Fedex did him in? How come that argument has not been tried before with the 300 players who have tested positive in the past 3 years? One man and one clinic and the 15 people who worked at the so called clinic all conspired to bring down 20 or more major league players?


As for who is leaking what has been put out there so far, most likely MLB and some players. The 3 ESPN reporters tracking this mess, have gotten a lot of information from a lot of sources. Its not stretch either that Miami New Times came across the information they got from sources in MLB and they were picked to break the "story"

The clean players (hundreds in MLB and thousands in the minors) want this cleaned up once and for all. Eric Byrnes said it best yesterday, he feels cheated because he did it the right way and he wants the hammer to come down hard on the current players involved if they did anything wrong. He said the Stuff was all over the clubhouse on the early to mid 2000's on the A's and other teams he was on and at the time you "had" to look the other way. He said he chose not to do it, because he didn't want to go bald, have his testicles shrivel up and other physical problems he saw first hand on those that were using PEDS. One of the bigger reasons he said players used also, was because players could keep playing through injury and for sure come back from injury quicker. It's not another stretch to now see why there are more injuries and longer DL stints all of sudden.

Due process exists in a court room. Players involved in this mess should take note of some of the high profile players who lied and didn't come clean with MLB First. Rose suspended for life, right or wrong and then the Feds got him on tax evasion and he went to jail. Bonds black balled from playing again and ultimately found guilty of obstruction of justice. Clemens same thing, although he was not found guilty. If they truly want to fight a preponderance of evidence against them, they all better watch out for the Feds and criminal charges. It is illegal to buy, use and distribute PEDS without doctors approval, that was an outcome of the 2006 and 2007 congressional hearings on PEDS in baseball and when new laws were passed regarding PEDS in sports. Some of the "greats" of the past 25 years appear they will never get in the HOF. Were they great because they used PEDS or not? We will never know I suspect until they truly admit.

Canseco - admitted
Bonds - Denys
Clemens- Denys
Palmiero- Failed PED test in last season and suspended - cuaght using
Rose- finally admitted he lied
Sosa- Denys
McGwire - Finally admitted he lied- no perjury because he took the 5th.

The present players under the radar:

The rest- no comment -why- becuase they don't want to be found as denying or is it lying.
Gio - Denys - Bio Genisis link- it was his father using Tony B's serivces...way to go dad!
Cano- No comment, but it was his advisor who dealt with Tony B.
Cruz - no comment - Bio Genisis link
Braun - Denys - Bio Genisis link
Arod- Denys - Bio Genisis link
Melky - admitted - Bio Genisis link
Colon- Admitted - Bio Genisis link
Grandal- Admitted - Bio Genisis link
Galvis- Admitted -Bio Genisis link
Cesar Carrillo -admitted 100 games - Bio Genisis link
University of Miami BB program - Bio Genisis link and Tony B link as far back as 10 years ago


88 Minor and Major league players suspended from 25-100 games each in 2010.
71 Minor and Major league players suspended from 25-100 games each in 2011.
113 Minor and Major league players suspended from 25-100 games each in 2012.
22 players in 2013 suspended for at least 50 games, almost all for PEDS.

294 players suspended in 3 years and some say there is no problem.


I got two words- Greed and Money by all 3 sides, the clinics, the players and MLB... As someone rightly said, Melky got $17M 6 months after admitting... please... Todd Hundley said it even better a few weeks ago, you give my job away to a known cheater (Grandal)? They are all guilty IMO and I hope they all get what's coming to them, including Tony B.

I would not want to be Tony B or any player associated with him in any fashion. They can all choose to fight and have this drag on or take thier punishments and tell the truth. If some don't want to accept that Tony B wants to tell the truth, its understandable I suppose, because all the players have said he is the liar and they did nothing with him and you/us, the public, should believe us because we are not cheaters or liars and we had nothing do with Tony B or any clinics in taking PEDS.

Some pretty well respected current BB historians are already saying this has the potential to be the biggest Drug scandal in BB and sports ever, evidently they see the things some of us don't.

As for our small world here in fantasy yeah it does have an impact and it will have an impact. Its not the sort of crap we want to deal with. I had Melky on 2 teams last year and was at or near the top in those leagues.. Once he went down it was over for those 2 teams. finished 3rd in both. The NFBC rightly so, has concerns too, as this type of crap potentially hurts thier business. I even took Melky again this year on I believe 2 teams, thinking he couldn't get suspended again and he came clean at the time and accepted his responsibility on what he had done. In reading some of his comments the other day, he seems resigned to the fact he will get suspended again for lying.

I'll go out on a limb and say of the first suspensions handed out soon to the big names, Nelson Cruz takes his quickly, knowing he will be back for the playoffs if he does. AROD may take his to try and continue his career and Braun chooses to fight and he gets suspended in or around August ultimately, and may even try to enlist the help of the legal/judicial system to fight and further delay his suspension, in which he will lose. He will then only be left with a civil case against MLB at that point.

Due process for all....

[Tom Kessenich]

ARod just released a statement saying MLB leaking this story to ESPN is in violation of the JDA's confidentiality rules. I've been waiting for someone to attack at this. Huge problem in my opinion. MLB isn't letting the process play itself out naturally. They're attempting, and succeeding in some cases, to try these players in the court of public opinion. Combine that with the report today that Bosch tried to get money from ARod before telling MLB he'd talk to them and this hasn't been a very good day for MLB.

[Money]

ARod just released a statement saying MLB leaking this story to ESPN is in violation of the JDA's confidentiality rules. I've been waiting for someone to attack at this. Huge problem in my opinion. MLB isn't letting the process play itself out naturally. They're attempting, and succeeding in some cases, to try these players in the court of public opinion. Combine that with the report today that Bosch tried to get money from ARod before telling MLB he'd talk to them and this hasn't been a very good day for MLB.

Why do you give any credibility to anything aroid says? He's a known liar same as boesch, but aroid gets your benefit and admiration?

[Tom Kessenich]

ARod just released a statement saying MLB leaking this story to ESPN is in violation of the JDA's confidentiality rules. I've been waiting for someone to attack at this. Huge problem in my opinion. MLB isn't letting the process play itself out naturally. They're attempting, and succeeding in some cases, to try these players in the court of public opinion. Combine that with the report today that Bosch tried to get money from ARod before telling MLB he'd talk to them and this hasn't been a very good day for MLB.

Why do you give any credibility to anything aroid says? He's a known liar same as boesch, but aroid gets your benefit and admiration?

Who said I admired him? I simply agree with what he says - MLB is screwing the pooch royally in my opinion by leaking this info right now and before they've even had the opportunity to talk to the chief witness in their entire case. Personally, I think ARod is a smug, arrogant a*****e but I think he's absolutely correct with his statement here.

[Outlaw]

Bosch asking for money from players was known last month or a least speculated. How does Arod know MLB leaked it or sanctioned a leak?. He is speculating just like I and others are that MLB leaked it. If MLB did indeed leak it, they did so after careful consideration to illicit responses, just like MLB did when they filed suit against Tony B. Those that wish to defend the players will hang thier hat on anything as will those of us that think the players did probably do something wrong and cheat. If the players want a legal war and that's what it takes to figure this mess out, so be it, but it will get figured out. Not many people in this world who know about the Braun case believe Braun didn't test positive. Almost all say he got off on a technicality.

AROD's exact statement was as follows: “Myself and others are being mentioned in a media report before the process is even concluded. I would hope this thing would follow the guidelines of our Basic Agreement. I will monitor the situation and comment when appropriate. As I have said previously, I am working out every day to get back on the field and help the Yankees win a championship. I am down here doing my job and working hard and will continue to do so until I’m back playing.”

No mention of the JDA confidentiality rules, ESPN, just the basic agreement, no mention of MLB or accusing MLB of leaking it... He's not ready to do anything legally. They have all hung thier hats on Tony B not cooperating , in addition to the employees of the clinic, who have been singing for some time now. It seems that is backfiring on all of them. I don't think he really wants ESPN up his butt.... Miami New Times were the original Story breakers. He doesn't even know if it has or has not followed the guidelines, he is sending smoke signals hoping it is being followed.

Nothing but non answers and more denial for now. Where in his statement does he say he had no connection or didn't use PEDS that Tony B gave him, no where. AROD wants to play again and is considering the best path to take just like everyone involved. If he wants to be remembered for more than this stigma, he should consider helping MLB clean it up and be the white horse who helped.


Remember the pictures we have not yet seen.

[Outlaw]

ARod just released a statement saying MLB leaking this story to ESPN is in violation of the JDA's confidentiality rules. I've been waiting for someone to attack at this. Huge problem in my opinion. MLB isn't letting the process play itself out naturally. They're attempting, and succeeding in some cases, to try these players in the court of public opinion. Combine that with the report today that Bosch tried to get money from ARod before telling MLB he'd talk to them and this hasn't been a very good day for MLB.

Why do you give any credibility to anything aroid says? He's a known liar same as boesch, but aroid gets your benefit and admiration?

Who said I admired him? I simply agree with what he says - MLB is screwing the pooch royally in my opinion by leaking this info right now and before they've even had the opportunity to talk to the chief witness in their entire case. Personally, I think ARod is a smug, arrogant a*****e but I think he's absolutely correct with his statement here.

Do you really believe that Tony B and others have not outlined what they have well before the past few days and all this latest news. I don't. I beleive they cut a deal with Tony B some time ago based on how he told them he could help. MLB has had a lot of legal dots to connect with Tony B.

[Tom Kessenich]

I think if Bosch lied once (which he absolutely has no matter how this story unfolds), there's no telling what he may say later on. Again, if Braun, ARod and anyone else used PEDs and has lied about it they deserve to be punished. I just hope MLB has a helluva lot more than just the word of a known liar who any recent law school graduate should be able to massacre during cross examination given the rather significant problems he's going to present in terms of credibility. They clearly don't have more than Bosch. If they did, they would've handed down suspensions already. So it appears obvious their entire case hinges on what he has to say.

Not sure that's the most intelligent move for them to take. MLB went through this before with Clemens and that ended up being a failure. So far there doesn't appear to be anything which would indicate they've learned from that prior mistake. They seem hell-bent on repeating it.

[BK METS]

In general, this goes back to anyone and everyone who screws up, breaks the law or rules, etc. If you are man enough to come forward and admit that you screwed up, typically the American public gives you a second chance. But, if you continue to deny and lie and cheat your way through it, then get caught, you are the lowest of the low.

For this reason, I do believe there will be some players that do come forward pretty quickly and admit they did it and do their time. I am not a Yankee fan, but I commend Andy Pettitte for admitting his usage. Some people forget he ever admitted to it. I personally will respect the players that admit quickly. We all make mistakes and do stupid things... MAN up!

[Outlaw]

In general, this goes back to anyone and everyone who screws up, breaks the law or rules, etc. If you are man enough to come forward and admit that you screwed up, typically the American public gives you a second chance. But, if you continue to deny and lie and cheat your way through it, then get caught, you are the lowest of the low.

For this reason, I do believe there will be some players that do come forward pretty quickly and admit they did it and do their time. I am not a Yankee fan, but I commend Andy Pettitte for admitting his usage. Some people forget he ever admitted to it. I personally will respect the players that admit quickly. We all make mistakes and do stupid things... MAN up!

6 players have already admitted their links to Biogenisis and where they got thier "stuff" from... Melky was the the first one and he got rewarded handsomely. Clemens, Bonds, first Braun debacale, I agree they were all one off witch hunts probably handled wrong to boot. Way too many characters in this story to keep quite on both sides. Once the birds started chirping, everyone starts looking for a chair before they are all filled up.

there are not many instances in any sport, at least none that i can recall at present, where any athlete was accused of doing something wrong and it was found out definatively they did not. Most eventually have told the truth or written a book telling the truth. Some will lie until their death, for 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, but they eventually tell the truth. Why should these dozens of players be any different. just saying.

[Tom Kessenich]

Again, I'm not saying anyone here is innocent. I'm saying that I need a lot more than the word of a known liar to convince me that they're guilty.

[Outlaw]

MLB didn't botch the Clemens case, the Feds did. MLB never pursued Clemens, they probably asked the gov't to do it and that did backfire on them if they did ask. MLB also didn't go after Bonds either, they let the Feds do that also. Maybe MLB has learned its lesson, we'll handle this in house. Selig has best interests of the game powers that are broad and sweeping, no one should underestimate that. The gov't even botched the Black Sox scandal and they were not convicted, yet they were banned for life by MLB. Bonds (convicted) and Clemens although not banned were, blackballed from playing again it appears.

Maybe Dough can weigh in if anyone has ever challenged the powers of MLB in court. Sure seems like if you did or wanted to it might not work out so well.

[Greg Ambrosius]

One point is a given: ALL OF US on these boards are big-time baseball fans and have been much of our lives. ALL OF US wants what's best for the game. ALL OF US wish we could trust our caretakers of the game: The owners and the players.

And yet with so much good going on in the game, here we all are today talking about Biogenesis. Again, on the day of the MLB Amateur Draft the talk of the industry is on Tony Bosch, not Mark Appel or Jonathan Gray. During a great fantasy baseball season, we're all sitting here talking about losing some players to suspensions and whether this will affect our love of this hobby in the future. It sucks. None of this should be happening TODAY.

ESPN got this information from someone inside the investigation and honestly if the only news is that Tony Bosch has agreed to talk then you're right, some players should be worried. But to take it to the next level where MLB has told ESPN that they are now seeking 100-game suspsensions, what's with that?? That's the story THEY have created during the best times of their season. No reason for it. Let Bosch be interviewed, let the evidence come forth and let's all pi** on the convicted offenders if/when the evidence proves them guilty. Until then, can we enjoy the season??

I want to talk about Yasiel Puig, Matt Harvey, Patrick Corbin, the Cardinals' efficient franchise, the next crop of rookies coming up, etc. Honestly, I miss some of the scoring we had ten years ago and I miss seeing the ball being put in play more often, but I'm still enjoying this season. Every week there is a new prospect to bid on in FAAB. Yes, there are a ton of injuries this year, but it's what keeps folks hopping and trying to improve their teams. I think this is one of the most fascinating fantasy baseball seasons I can ever remember, so why the news of 100-game suspensions at this point?? Because they think all of the players will cave and give in?? Let's see due process work here and let's see every bit of evidence. But until then, I'm going back to enjoying the baseball season. I'm having too much fun to let this crap mess with my season.

[Tom Kessenich]

MLB clearly isn't handling this "in house." They leaked a story well in advance of anything and potentially violated the JDA agreement in the process. Even if they are proven correct in this case, their methods are highly questionable and dubious in my opinion.

[EWeaver]

Again, I'm not saying anyone here is innocent. I'm saying that I need a lot more than the word of a known liar to convince me that they're guilty.

Luckily, in this instance, there is a lot more than simply the word of a known liar.

I'm confused by the discussion around this topic. Does any reasonable person believe for a *second* that Tony B. did NOT sell PEDs to the listed players, and/or that the listed players did NOT take the PEDs?

The burden of proof resting squarely with the prosecution is a great thing. Due process is a great thing. But c'mon. LEGAL innocence and FACTUAL innocence are not the same thing - and speaking as though they are doesn't move the real, underlying issue/problem forward.

The cheaters will get their day in court. I suspect they might even be declared legally innocent. But factually, we all know better, right?

[Tom Kessenich]

Again, I'm not saying anyone here is innocent. I'm saying that I need a lot more than the word of a known liar to convince me that they're guilty.

Luckily, in this instance, there is a lot more than simply the word of a known liar.

For MLB's sake there had better be. Of course, if there was definitive proof without Bosch there would've been suspensions handed out by now. The fact nothing has been done and now something might be done based solely on Bosch flipping strongly indicates his word is paramount in this case.

[Outlaw]

MLB clearly isn't handling this "in house." They leaked a story well in advance of anything and potentially violated the JDA agreement in the process. Even if they are proven correct in this case, their methods are highly questionable and dubious in my opinion.

I don't mean to pile on you personnalyTom, and I do respect all your opinions, but with All of what they (MLB, News media) have let anyone see so far, doesn't it make you conclude they are probably guilty of cheating? It's Not my job though to convince you, you are entitled to your opinions or anyone else is too. All the records, reports, eyewitness accounts, other players saying they dealt with Tony B and the clinics.. There's a lot more they have then just Tony Bosch, he just corroborates what others have been saying, verifying it's his handwriting, his computer records, providing more details that can all be checked, like shipping records, bank records, drug companies or distributors used etc, etc... Can anyone actually believe that one guy did all this and set all these players up to be caught.

They are all liars, except the ones who have already admitted like Melky. When you got a room of liars, they all know the truth and if they all cant be trusted to tell the truth, then the only conclusion can be what is most likely to have occurred. That is what happened in the Black sox scandal. Not guilty on all accounts but 6 months later banned for life by MLB. There was no clear truth in that mess and the mountain of what was known, was why MLB did what they did to them.

All the players have done is say no comment basically and/or I'm not involved.

As for fantasy, this is a big story this year if any or all of these players get suspended. Just last year Colon and Melky affected fantasy teams. NFBC fault, nope, Team owner fault, nope, player fault and MLB fault - yes. But nothing Fantasy players can do about it, other than look at it as just an injury, but in reality that's not really what it was. Does anyone want to go through this every year in fantasy, I highly doubt it. We all would like a clean game for many reasons, not just fantasy. I've read here where some team owners stayed away from the player names that were put out there in February by Miami New times when they drafted. I did for the most part, because my personal opinion was some or all could get suspended this year. it sucks to have to consider that, but some of us did.