Now batting 6th in the lineup ...

[KJ Duke]

Carlos Gomez. He's hitting 320 with 10 HRS and a lot of extra base hits. He seems to hit everyone, and he's been steady. He has excellent speed and can run the bases as well as almost anyone.

Tonight he triples. Who does Roenicke have hitting behind him?
• Ricky Weeks, who rarely hits and often strikes out.
• Yuni Betancourt, who hasn't had a hit since around April 15th.
• And then the pitcher.
Guess who never scored after that triple?

Ok, so who's hitting ahead of Gomez?
• Jon LuCroy, hitting .250, and who's primary value is hitting HRs. He's also a guy who Gomez could probably pass on the basepaths if he hit a double or triple.
• And two spots ahead of him in the cleanup spot is Aramis Ramirez, who pretty much just jogs around the bases now whether it's a homer, single or double. Another good guy to have batting ahead of Gomez.

65% of his plate appearances this season have come from 6th or lower in the lineup.

Is it really that hard to figure out that it might make sense to put your best average/power/speed hitter near the top of the lineup ahead of slow-footed sluggers, not to mention the chance to get them a potential extra at bat every game? I haven't watched much Brewer baseball, but I know they have a terrible record. Going on the limited amount of info I have, I'd say Roenicke should be fired for his silly lineups alone because it's probably a good indication of his overall decision-making. Am I wrong?

[Outlaw]

His days are numbered and have been for some time, although with most managers, it's not his fault they have no pitching, and like everyone else it seems these days, injuries. They got no farm system either to help.. things like stupid lineups do not help either..

[BK METS]

The only case you can possibly make would be to possibly drop Segura from 2nd to 5th, then putting Gomez at #2 and Lucroy at #6. Gomez isn't a #1, in my opinion.

Aoki is a pure #1. Good speed, very low K total and good OBP. Braun is an obvious #3 and Ramirez, although he is looking old and slow, is still a perennial 30-100-.300 cleanup hitter. Lucroy is the only guy that you can drop, in my opinion.

Gomez has had a great start to his season and on any other team, he would be a #2, but Segura has had a pretty decent start as well, with a better batting average, lower Ks, and just as much speed and power. Its just a really good top 6, whatever way you look at it.

[KJ Duke]

The only case you can possibly make would be to possibly drop Segura from 2nd to 5th, then putting Gomez at #2 and Lucroy at #6. Gomez isn't a #1, in my opinion.

Aoki is a pure #1. Good speed, very low K total and good OBP. Braun is an obvious #3 and Ramirez, although he is looking old and slow, is still a perennial 30-100-.300 cleanup hitter. Lucroy is the only guy that you can drop, in my opinion.

Gomez has had a great start to his season and on any other team, he would be a #2, but Segura has had a pretty decent start as well, with a better batting average, lower Ks, and just as much speed and power. Its just a really good top 6, whatever way you look at it.

Aoki
Segura
Gomez
Braun
Ramirez
LuCroy
Weeks
Betancourt

Aoki is good lead-off, while Segura-Gomez have been ny far their best hitters. Braun hitting behind Gomez could only help - then he and Jean are always on base ahead of RBI guys Braun and Ramirez. I'd roll with that lineup everday.

[BK METS]

I would say, eventually, if he keeps on hitting, he will be brought up in the order... but the guy is barely a career .300 OBP guy with average power. I would think your best pure hitters should hit 2 and 3. He has had a good start to the season, but he is not a #3... not yet. Braun needs to bat 3rd. If Aram continues to struggle, maybe you make a move, but I don't think the batting order is why they lose. Their starting pitching sucks.

[KJ Duke]

I would think your best pure hitters should hit 2 and 3. He has had a good start to the season, but he is not a #3... not yet. Braun needs to bat 3rd. If Aram continues to struggle, maybe you make a move, but I don't think the batting order is why they lose. Their starting pitching sucks.

Braun hasn't been healthy, nor has he run much or hit for the same power without his PEDs this season. He's still a threat, but Gomez should be batting in front of him. They'd be a better team.

... but the guy is barely a career .300 OBP guy with average power.

That's a clown stat, bro! ®

Gomez was very good in the second half of last season, this Spring and nearly 2 1/2 months into this season. I'd say he's figured it out, he turned just 27 this offseason.

[KJ Duke]

Someone woke up Ron. Gomez batting 3rd tonight, and involved in all 3 Brewer runs through first two innings. RBI single in both innings, and scored in the 1st because of his speed forcing an error. Also stole a base in the 2nd to get in scoring position for Ramirez.

Now F'ING leave him in the 3 hole !!!

[headhunters]

geez- I really don't know why this was so difficult. they have known longer than we have about brauns thumb- that move seemed pretty obvious. get your best hitters more at bats .

[DOUGHBOYS]

The real test will be when.....(ok, IF, for Outlaw) Braun comes back.
Ron may go back to the same ol, same ol.
If he does, we'll know what we have. Somebody that doesn't get it.

By the way, this PED's argument aside, and for that matter, thumbs issue aside too.
I doubt that anybody who took Braun over Cabrera or Trout will do so again next year. Braun is simply not the best fantasy player in baseball.
And if he escapes this whole investigation unscathed, I doubt he is even considered for a top two spot and maybe not even a top five spot.

[CASS]

I'd love to be in a league next year where PED suspension aside Braun isn't in a top 5 and I have the 6. But I'm never that fortunate and seem to get tough league drafts - as evidence by my main NY league this year...3 former overall champs. Crazy

[DOUGHBOYS]

I'd love to be in a league next year where PED suspension aside Braun isn't in a top 5 and I have the 6. But I'm never that fortunate and seem to get tough league drafts - as evidence by my main NY league this year...3 former overall champs. Crazy

Borderline for me. Maybe not even borderline.
I don't know whether it's the thumb injury, turning 30, the lack of stealing bases. Or maybe it's the voices in his head.
I don't know.
I really don't think I'd take him in the top five next year and would not be at all unhappy to see you get him at six.

[CASS]

Well hopefully we get the same league draw next year The lack of steals was explained by braun himself...bad luck/timing etc plays a ton into SBs. He's said he's had 10 bags stolen where either it was fouled or put in play etc. Are the days of 30+ gone? maybe...but if you ? his pure hitting ability i'm not sure what ur watching. Let's not knee jerk on june 11th after an injury plagued 1st few months. We love to do this....Trout is a bust, trout is awesome etc...lets see the full body of work come Oct 1. I don't judge players on 9 weeks....

[DOUGHBOYS]

Well hopefully we get the same league draw next year The lack of steals was explained by braun himself...bad luck/timing etc plays a ton into SBs. He's said he's had 10 bags stolen where either it was fouled or put in play etc. Are the days of 30+ gone? maybe...but if you ? his pure hitting ability i'm not sure what ur watching. Let's not knee jerk on june 11th after an injury plagued 1st few months. We love to do this....Trout is a bust, trout is awesome etc...lets see the full body of work come Oct 1. I don't judge players on 9 weeks....

Half the year is almost over!
I think it's ok to judge.
We don't like to see former top picks fade away, but it happens.
Braun is doing a fade. Like said, I don't know whether it's the thumb, or that he is an old 30, or the voices in his head, I don't know. I don't see Ryan Braun of 2012 and earlier, in the Ryan Braun of 2013. I just don't.
What I do know is that if I took him in the top five next year, that there is no way I'd expect top five numbers at the end of the year. Making him a bust-probable pick for me.
You don't see it that way, and that's why we play the game

[KJ Duke]

Well hopefully we get the same league draw next year The lack of steals was explained by braun himself...bad luck/timing etc plays a ton into SBs. He's said he's had 10 bags stolen where either it was fouled or put in play etc. Are the days of 30+ gone? maybe...but if you ? his pure hitting ability i'm not sure what ur watching. Let's not knee jerk on june 11th after an injury plagued 1st few months. We love to do this....Trout is a bust, trout is awesome etc...lets see the full body of work come Oct 1. I don't judge players on 9 weeks....

Half the year is almost over!
I think it's ok to judge.
We don't like to see former top picks fade away, but it happens.
Braun is doing a fade. Like said, I don't know whether it's the thumb, or that he is an old 30, or the voices in his head, I don't know. I don't see Ryan Braun of 2012 and earlier, in the Ryan Braun of 2013. I just don't.
What I do know is that if I took him in the top five next year, that there is no way I'd expect top five numbers at the end of the year. Making him a bust-probable pick for me.
You don't see it that way, and that's why we play the game

Since a vocal minority didn't see him as a top 5 this year, a year older, he certainly won't be next year. A down swing in PEDs will lead to more injuries and a lot of performances coming in below expectations. The HR binge years of the sosa-mcguire steroid era needed to be discounted in subsequent years, and the crackdown on all PEDs needs to be taken into account for known users like Braun, and unknowns with a shorter record that we may not know about.

[Outlaw]

Well hopefully we get the same league draw next year The lack of steals was explained by braun himself...bad luck/timing etc plays a ton into SBs. He's said he's had 10 bags stolen where either it was fouled or put in play etc. Are the days of 30+ gone? maybe...but if you ? his pure hitting ability i'm not sure what ur watching. Let's not knee jerk on june 11th after an injury plagued 1st few months. We love to do this....Trout is a bust, trout is awesome etc...lets see the full body of work come Oct 1. I don't judge players on 9 weeks....

Half the year is almost over!
I think it's ok to judge.
We don't like to see former top picks fade away, but it happens.
Braun is doing a fade. Like said, I don't know whether it's the thumb, or that he is an old 30, or the voices in his head, I don't know. I don't see Ryan Braun of 2012 and earlier, in the Ryan Braun of 2013. I just don't.
What I do know is that if I took him in the top five next year, that there is no way I'd expect top five numbers at the end of the year. Making him a bust-probable pick for me.
You don't see it that way, and that's why we play the game

Since a vocal minority didn't see him as a top 5 this year, a year older, he certainly won't be next year. A down swing in PEDs will lead to more injuries and a lot of performances coming in below expectations. The HR binge years of the sosa-mcguire steroid era needed to be discounted in subsequent years, and the crackdown on all PEDs needs to be taken into account for known users like Braun, and unknowns with a shorter record that we may not know about.

Gotta agree with Dough and KJ here. Granted we are talking one player here. But A couple of points to consider so far. Last year the power and offensive numbers were going down and its continues this year, While the Strikeouts went up last year and continue to go up this year and up noticeably. The thing I have noticed is that the hitters especially seem smaller physically, guys like Hamilton, Pujos, Melky, Granderson, Kemp and many others. The injuries too are way up and even when not placed on the DL, there seem to plenty who don't play for 5-10 days and then come back. That injury scenario (not counting someone on DL) has a lot to do with the 40 man roster spots. So you can’t even go by DL when looking at injuries, the little nagging ones are way up too. The obvious question is why? What has changed? As everyone knows I have been following the PEDS stuff closer than most... so

A few thoughts to consider regarding PEDS usage and timelines the past few years. It was obvious following the 02-07 time frame the heat was on using the old fashioned anabolic steroid cocktails. 08-10 brought the next generations of PEDS, cocktail versions of PEDS, the use of Human growth Hormone derivatives. In 09-10 MLB got wind of it, Guys like Manny and few others as well has hundreds of minor leaguers got caught. These new generation PEDS could be out of the players system in 12-36 hrs and some not even could be caught with the then current testing being done. There were huge advancements in masking agents also, rendering testing all but useless. MLB worked with WADA to find what could be done. Throughout 2011 they developed and educated themselves about these new "PEDS". They worked with players association and right at the end of the 2011 season they agreed to change the testing and testing protocols. Braun and a bunch of others quickly got flagged following the 2011 season. When Braun was found he didn't use them spring of 2012 because of testing issues, MLB knew they had to beef up the testing and rules again. Meanwhile they continued to get educated on these new PEDS and how to detect them and they needed more in season testing and more frequent testing because of the advances on using and hiding PEDS use. Tony B and his clinic Biogenesis, as well about 1/2 a dozen other clinics, some in Texas, were on the forefront of helping players use them and avoid detection. Meanwhile more and more players were just deciding not use them if they had been, because the Dogs were chasing them. MLB wanted more rules and testing and punishment, airgo the revised Drug agreement in February 2013.

IMO, in baseball, for hitters, you look for quickness, speed, reflexes, strength. Bat speed plays a big part in power. So does Quickness. PEDS enhances all of those physical abilities. PEDS hides little aches and pains. Now comes 2012 and the numbers go haywire and continues this year. A lot of hitters to me appear smaller, their bat speed seems slower and their quickness seems slower. Less contact, less power and less speed. Its' no coincidence of the players named so far, whether they or did not do PEDS, some or all of these physical things seem to apply to them. As an example Melky went from avg. speed, avg. contact, below power to increased speed, better contact and more power first in KC then San Fran, both pitchers parks too. How does Granderson, go from 20 for 4 seasons to back to back 40 seasons and now he is brittle? Look at Hamilton and Pujos, the past 2 years, big time struggles and they are and were not 37. Bonds, Sosa, McGwire were all smaller -30 HR guys, they used and got bigger, faster and quicker and boom 50- 60-70.... then all the guys who would hit 7-10 who then become 20-25 HR guys over all these years. The best example of a tiny player who would hit 12-15 was Brady Anderson, who has admitted and who hit 50 after using PEDS. All the players knew Faster bat speed and bigger muscles equal more power and more contact. The list is endless of players the past 15 years who used, may have used and we'll never know. It has existed up to this season, although more than ever it appears most players don't now because the Dogs are chasing them and the penalties have gotten tougher and appear to be getting even tougher.

I can go over similar physical things and players and numbers regarding pitchers, although not as easy as hitting as it is a different ability. There does however seem to major increase just in the past 3-4 years in arm injuries, especially ligaments/forearm stuff with pitchers, more than I can ever remember. And I know for a fact pitchers who have used PEDS that have blown out their shoulders and elbows.

The thing about PEDS is when you stop using them, the damage they have caused is still not well known, but what they do know, is that the body breaks down faster because of first using PEDS and then not using them. Is that the reason for more injuries - who knows?

I'm not saying some of the players above used PEDS, I'm just pointing out, what to me seems obvious and reasonable. Hamilton's Bat speed is not like it was and either is Braun’s. Braun does not look quick running like he did 2 years ago. They both look smaller.

Another fact about BioGen and the other clinics is that they were just not selling the PEDS to the athletes (it’s just not BB players, its tennis, boxing, etc.) , they were also selling the masking agents to avoid detection as well as mixing the PEDS so they were out of their system very quickly. MLB is going after players for also using and buying these masking agents. There is no reason to be buying pharmaceutical drugs/agents that are not PEDS per say, but are used to hide PEDS use, if you were not doing PEDS. As this unfolds I believe people will be shocked at the names involved and other sources (clinics if you call them that) involved also.

These Days who knows how it’s affecting Fantasy, but one thing is still clear now, We don’t know who is or is not, just that it has happened and continues to happen, albeit less and less, but we know all the numbers are changing, the norms are changing…the injuries are increasing….

[BK METS]

Of course... a thread about where Carlos Gomez should bat in the lineup, turns into another PED thread. Shocking.

[Outlaw]

Of course... a thread about where Carlos Gomez should bat in the lineup, turns into another PED thread. Shocking.

Note to Self (BK METS)- ingore Outlaw posts -stop reading at first mention of PEDS. I suggest ignoring anything about PEDS then, so when they get suspended you are not prepared or if you do not believe its having an affect on the game or a problem in the game.