Biogenesis Suspensions May Not Impact 2013 Season

[Outlaw]

The Players Union is already on record saying they do not approve of how MLB has handled this situation. They said today they do not approve of MLB's likely decision to announce the names of suspended players before appeals have been heard. We'll see how it all plays out but if push comes to shove the process is going to prove equally as important as cleaning up the game. Players want a clean game for sure so quotes from players saying they want a clean game mean nothing. Of course they're going to say that. Everyone is saying that. But players do not want their rights to be trampled in the process. Ask them how they feel about that if you want to paint a more accurate picture.

Dan, if I was still a member of the media that's the first question I'd be asking. That goes right to the heart of how the players union feels about how this matter has been handled thus far.

Not one player, clean or suspected, anywhere is saying thier rights have been trampled regarding this problem. In fact, the supposed cheaters say nothing. MLB does not approve of the leaks either, that is thier official stance. So many appear to be hell bent on saying MLB is doing this, MLB is doing that wrong.... What MLB appears to be doing is their homework and listening to the clean players and the FANS. The argument makes no sense.

I will agree the media fans the flames, but at the end of the day, the clean players will decide if thier rights are being trampled, not the cheaters and certainly not the media and in this case not the Union leadership. The Union will do their best to limit the damage and protect the current CBA, but that is there obligation to that. As I said before PR 101, and quite frankly what else can the Union even say, they are sucking hind quarters on this problem.

I seriously doubt that the Cliff Lee's and Brandon Philipps's would agree that their opinions mean nothing regarding this issue. Anyone would have a hard time engaging them in a discussion like that, without them telling the person to go away. Good luck Mike Wiener telling Cliff Lee to shut up.

[knuckleheads]

Not one player, clean or suspected, anywhere is saying thier rights have been trampled regarding this problem. In fact, the supposed cheaters say nothing. MLB does not approve of the leaks either, that is thier official stance.

Yes, that is MLB's official stance. It is also MLB's information that is being released prematurely (leaked). Do you think Alex Rodriguez and Ryan Braun are releasing rumors that they will be suspended for 150 games? MLB is responsible for keeping its information confidential.

I will agree the media fans the flames, but at the end of the day, the clean players will decide if thier rights are being trampled, not the cheaters and certainly not the media and in this case not the Union leadership.

Are you saying only those who are not accused can complain about MLB's tactics? That really dosen't make much sense.

I seriously doubt that the Cliff Lee's and Brandon Philipps's would agree that their opinions mean nothing regarding this issue. Anyone would have a hard time engaging them in a discussion like that, without them telling the person to go away. Good luck Mike Wiener telling Cliff Lee to shut up.

Or how about Rafael Palmero? He sure seemed clean at one time... Before Alex Rodriguez was first accused, you might have said the same thing about him. Or Ryan Braun. In fact, Ryan Braun has never had a valid postive test for PEDs. MLB broke confidentiality rules in the JDA by releasing his name in conjunction with an invalid test that MLB claimed was positive, but was determined by an arbiter to be invalid.

Outlaw, are you determiner of who is clean and who is not? Of who can "decide if their rights are being trampled"? Fortunately, that's not how it works. Everybody has rights. MLB and the Players Union have agreed on a process. MLB seems to be taking step outside that process, which may win it points in a public perception debate, but won't result in excessive, extended penalties for players.

The last case in which MLB failed to follow process resulted in Braun rightly receiving no penalty. I believe that could end up being the result of this investigation as well, the way MLB has handled it.

[Outlaw]

Not one player, clean or suspected, anywhere is saying thier rights have been trampled regarding this problem. In fact, the supposed cheaters say nothing. MLB does not approve of the leaks either, that is thier official stance.

Yes, that is MLB's official stance. It is also MLB's information that is being released prematurely (leaked). Do you think Alex Rodriguez and Ryan Braun are releasing rumors that they will be suspended for 150 games? MLB is responsible for keeping its information confidential.

I will agree the media fans the flames, but at the end of the day, the clean players will decide if thier rights are being trampled, not the cheaters and certainly not the media and in this case not the Union leadership.

Are you saying only those who are not accused can complain about MLB's tactics? That really dosen't make much sense.

I seriously doubt that the Cliff Lee's and Brandon Philipps's would agree that their opinions mean nothing regarding this issue. Anyone would have a hard time engaging them in a discussion like that, without them telling the person to go away. Good luck Mike Wiener telling Cliff Lee to shut up.

Or how about Rafael Palmero? He sure seemed clean at one time... Before Alex Rodriguez was first accused, you might have said the same thing about him. Or Ryan Braun. In fact, Ryan Braun has never had a valid postive test for PEDs. MLB broke confidentiality rules in the JDA by releasing his name in conjunction with an invalid test that MLB claimed was positive, but was determined by an arbiter to be invalid.

Outlaw, are you determiner of who is clean and who is not? Of who can "decide if their rights are being trampled"? Fortunately, that's not how it works. Everybody has rights. MLB and the Players Union have agreed on a process. MLB seems to be taking step outside that process, which may win it points in a public perception debate, but won't result in excessive, extended penalties for players.

The last case in which MLB failed to follow process resulted in Braun rightly receiving no penalty. I believe that could end up being the result of this investigation as well, the way MLB has handled it.

I'm not naive.

[knuckleheads]

Certainly not. However, it seems inconsistent to label players cheaters before they've had their say, to doggedly criticize and demean players who you feel haven't followed the rules, and then to be flippant about how MLB follows rules in administering the drug-testing protocol.

[DOUGHBOYS]

But, back to the original question, how has MLB been out of line?

Somebody has been leaking this information dating back to February (even earlier if we want to look back upon Braun's failed test). My money is MLB. It bothers me that a confidential program has been violated repeatedly. Perhaps the leaks aren't coming from MLB but they sure haven't been the least bit bothered that the process has been tainted so badly.

What leaks?
Since this story broke and players were named by reporters for a paper, all I've seen are calculated or just pure guesses in what is going to happen to players. Reporters put the names out there, not the MLB.
It seems that news outlets let the story alone and then pick it up as if something new happened, when in actuality, it is just more guessing about what MLB will do or how many days a player will receive. I don't think anything has been 'leaked' because, really, nothing substantive has been reported.


In my mind, this is why fans tire of the whole mess. When it is a long drawn out process as this has been, accusations and guesses will take place. No matter who is guilty, no matter how long the suspensions, most fans want to put this behind them.
This is not due process gone bad. No player that I know of has failed a drug test. The agreement between MLB and the union is about due process after that occurrence. The press has gone wild at times in stating things that just are not true.
Maybe it is because it is THEIR story. It's not MLB's fault and it certainly is not the fault of the accused.
Just as a union would protect one of their brethren accused of stealing, when 99% of union members would be opposed to stealing themselves, The Players Union will defend the accused even if 99% of players want a clean game.
To not think this, is more press (or Outlaw ) utterances, and certainly not MLB leaks.

For me, the Weiner statement that it'll be September when things are dealt with left me a little miffed. That means more months of guesses and accusations. Thanks to lawyers and unions and corporations, justice is never swift in America. Lawyers think it as a win for clients. In the mean time, these clients will have to answer or avoid answering questions everyday about their involvement, it doesn't seem like much of a win to me.

Personally, I don't care how long the suspensions are. And I don't think Braun or ARod should be treated any differently than any other player. What I would like is a fair and swift decision, and both sides are guilty of that not happening.

My hope is that MLB will investigate how these PED's were masked so that they can try to get ahead of the curve, instead of behind it, in their testing.
As long as players think that testing will not catch them, there are going to be players that put cash before morals.

[Outlaw]

Certainly not. However, it seems inconsistent to label players cheaters before they've had their say, to doggedly criticize and demean players who you feel haven't followed the rules, and then to be flippant about how MLB follows rules in administering the drug-testing protocol.

this is well beyond drug testing protocols... They appear to have willfully evaded the drug testing rules... follow the story... for anyone to think that the alleged players involved have done nothing wrong or illegal is naive. Because it is bigger than anyone knew as Tom said, due process for all and when you have literally a hundred or more people on both sides involved it takes time to gather all the facts and evidence. I have information on who most of the other players are, but you will not find me saying it, if and until MLB proves it. The story in and of itself is a big story in regards to baseball and its a shame the fans, the game, the players and anyone with the slightest interest in baseball has to even consider it, including fantasy players. Opinions make the world go round, but eventually the truth comes out, as with anything.

[CASS]

It's gonna be fun to watch MLB fall on their face for the 100th time...i can't wait to see their 'iron clad cases'.

[NorCalAtlFan]

it's weird that Tom is posting as knuckleheads too.

keep the updates coming outlaw.

[Billyhaze]

MLBPA won't protect PED users, I love this,

Union head Michael Weiner told the New York Daily News that the MLBPA is "not interested" in protecting players for whom overwhelming evidence exists that they used performance-enhancing drugs.

[Outlaw]

MLBPA won't protect PED users, I love this,

Union head Michael Weiner told the New York Daily News that the MLBPA is "not interested" in protecting players for whom overwhelming evidence exists that they used performance-enhancing drugs.

It's not that they will not protect them, they will be advising them of all their due process rights, including accepting a lesser suspension if the proof is overwhelming and they would not stand a chance in an appeal hearing. The sum game being, they would get a lighter suspension or possibly avoid a permanent suspension. The Bottom line is, the union has been consistent since day one when this story broke and that is, they will cooperate with MLB to try the best they can together to rid the game of PEDS. The union is also tired of this rule breaking by the cheating players. It recently came out that the Union (Weiner) helped 10-15 players avoid a suspension in the past year or two. That is a lot of work on everyone's part to make that happen. I'm sure the Union promised MLB if the problem continued that they would be a lot more cooperative and that is what is going on now. The Union, The clean players, MLB, the owners, The fans are sick of it all finally. This has been over 20 years in the making and it does appears everyone feels this is the story and the time for it to stop, and they are going punish every player that could be involved.

In addition, its just a matter of time that stiffer penalties are agreed to, if there are future players who think about doing PEDs. It should be 1 full year for first offense and lifetime ban for second offense. First time offense also allows the Team to void a current contract if they choose. The second offense, with the lifetime ban, automatically terminates any contract. Every player contract should have the penalties spelled out clearly. In addition, with what they seem to be discovering with the Biogen mess, if a player is found to have helped, supported, or is involved with any other player in PEDS use, sale or distribution, they both get banned for life, irrespective of a first time offense.

[knuckleheads]

MLBPA won't protect PED users, I love this,


In addition, its just a matter of time that stiffer penalties are agreed to, if there are future players who think about doing PEDs. It should be 1 full year for first offense and lifetime ban for second offense. First time offense also allows the Team to void a current contract if they choose. The second offense, with the lifetime ban, automatically terminates any contract. Every player contract should have the penalties spelled out clearly. In addition, with what they seem to be discovering with the Biogen mess, if a player is found to have helped, supported, or is involved with any other player in PEDS use, sale or distribution, they both get banned for life, irrespective of a first time offense.

Outlaw, I am afraid you are going to be so disappointed with the results of the Biogenesis case...

[Outlaw]

MLBPA won't protect PED users, I love this,


In addition, its just a matter of time that stiffer penalties are agreed to, if there are future players who think about doing PEDs. It should be 1 full year for first offense and lifetime ban for second offense. First time offense also allows the Team to void a current contract if they choose. The second offense, with the lifetime ban, automatically terminates any contract. Every player contract should have the penalties spelled out clearly. In addition, with what they seem to be discovering with the Biogen mess, if a player is found to have helped, supported, or is involved with any other player in PEDS use, sale or distribution, they both get banned for life, irrespective of a first time offense.

Outlaw, I am afraid you are going to be so disappointed with the results of the Biogenesis case...

I doubt it! I find the whole thing a shame for eveyone involved, baseball, the fans, the kids who look up these cheaters, but I do hope if the players involved cheated, they get thier due. I believe I already told you a few times I'll survive...but thanks for the concern.