Looking For Feedback On NFBC Draft Champions

[Happenstance]

I really like the idea of the personal clock if technically feasible. If you gave every team 50 hours (an hour per pick), the longest the draft could possibly last is about four and a half weeks. I suspect the draft would actually finish sooner than that as some (if not many) teams wouldn't use nearly all their time.

[joshguy]

Can you please explain how the live overall scoring works. For example, if I go to the live overall scoring page for the Draft Champions, my teams ERA doesnt match up. Its not what my ERA was at coming into today nor is it what it is after some of my pitchers pitched today.

Thanks!

[ToddZ]

While I like the idea of a clock in principle, I see a huge issue (actually two).

The first is simply the more complicated you make things, the more that can go wrong. Part of the appeal with the DC's is they are fairly seamless to handle from an administrative end. I'm just envisioning late night e-mails/texts/calls to Iola with claims that clocks are wrong, etc.

But let's say this isn't an issue.

How will running out of time in round 34 be handled?

Keeping in mind that any solution needs to uphold the integrity of a competition that crowns an overall champion, I cannot think of a solution that does not give a team an advantage. Give them the highest guy on the ADP each round? Give them an hour? What happens when the hour runs out - skip them? ADP?

Present a solution and I'll poke a hole in it.

Or prove me wrong.

[Navel Lint]

How will running out of time in round 34 be handled?

Keeping in mind that any solution needs to uphold the integrity of a competition that crowns an overall champion, I cannot think of a solution that does not give a team an advantage. Give them the highest guy on the ADP each round? Give them an hour? What happens when the hour runs out - skip them? ADP?

Present a solution and I'll poke a hole in it.

Or prove me wrong.

I would work it the same way we do now when your time runs out. You get the first player in your queue, or if you haven't maintained a personal queue, the highest player on the pre-ranked NFBC list.

This might not be a penalty to the owner that uses his entire clock before Rd34, but at least I don't have to wait 8 hours for them to get the very same player anyway.

Poke away.

[ToddZ]

I would work it the same way we do now when your time runs out. You get the first player in your queue, or if you haven't maintained a personal queue, the highest player on the pre-ranked NFBC list.

This might not be a penalty to the owner that uses his entire clock before Rd34, but at least I don't have to wait 8 hours for them to get the very same player anyway.

Poke away.

So you do this every round? They could get saddled with 10, 15, 20 or even more picks from the ADP/pre-rankings.

It's March and there have been injuries and big changes to the ADP and ranking list -- you're going to give this team a bunch of injured players (I've been down this road in football and there are still some NFFCers to which I am persona non grata). How often will Greg/Tom have to update the queues to keep it current?

If I am picking right after the bad owner and want the player at the top of the rankings, I am pretty pissed it gets assigned.

Depending on where the pick is, adjacent owners can plan their picks knowing the bad owner is going to get assigned the top ADP/rankings pick.

This team will be stuck with whatever is at the top of the list, regardless of position, They could get 10 catchers which has the added issue of leaving the other teams without ample catchers.

Their construction is terrible which leads every other league in the overall competition to complain that one of the other 14 teams will win the overall because of this piss poor team.

Next.

[joshguy]

Not really Todd...

Lets say for whatever reason, I had to use up all my time by rd 30 for whatever reason. Knowing this, all I have to do is adjust my rankings a few picks before I am going to be up rounds 31-50. Also, in no rankings would you find 10 catchers or any big glob of one position in a row. Plus, one team couldnt really dominate a position on accident. They are only taking 1 player at a time and everyone else will have a chance to take players from that position pool before that auto pick guy drafts again.

No team could really benefit from one knuckle head anyway. If you pick @#13, and the guy at #12 isnt picking and is taking straight from the queue, and is leaving you with an amazing player every pick then that would mean the 10 picks before you were lousy also.

Even if someone runs out of time in a draft which there is a personal clock, they can still have a hands on impact during the rest of the draft and make all of their own picks.

[ToddZ]

Not really Todd...

Lets say for whatever reason, I had to use up all my time by rd 30 for whatever reason. Knowing this, all I have to do is adjust my rankings a few picks before I am going to be up rounds 31-50.

Think this through. They use up all their clock by round 30 (or whatever). This means when they are ON THE CLOCK and know who has ALREADY BEEN PICKED, they still use up a ton of time.

Is this really the type of person that will be diligent enough to pop in BETWEEN PICKS and set a queue WITHOUT KNOWING who has been picked?

Personally, I doubt it.

Also, in no rankings would you find 10 catchers or any big glob of one position in a row. Plus, one team couldnt really dominate a position on accident.

There doesn't have to be a glob. There will be players taken in between that are near the top of the rankings - depending in the draft spot, it could over 20. Two catcher could be 15 places apart and be at the top of the queue when it gets back to that owner. If the adjacent owners have catchers or are waiting, then there is an excellent chance they get more than they would have normally. Maybe not 10, but more than usual.

They are only taking 1 player at a time and everyone else will have a chance to take players from that position pool before that auto pick guy drafts again.

So I have to alter my strategy in a non-desired manner because an auto-draft team has created an artificial scarcity? If a live person does it, so be it - that's part of the league dynamics.

No team could really benefit from one knuckle head anyway. If you pick @#13, and the guy at #12 isnt picking and is taking straight from the queue, and is leaving you with an amazing player every pick then that would mean the 10 picks before you were lousy also.

I actually agree with this but that's not the point. In an overall contest, you need to keep everything on as even a level as possible. All it takes is one crazy to go all legal on us.

Even if someone runs out of time in a draft which there is a personal clock, they can still have a hands on impact during the rest of the draft and make all of their own picks.

Again though, will they? I don't see how this type of person will be courteous and diligent enough to set an auto-queue with players they want in between picks.

[Roy's Outlaws]

Greg, Can you make the message board in the draft championship stay up for 24 hours and not reset every time I sign off. Can't follow what being said, unless you stay online all day. Very annoying

[joshguy]

This feature might be for only teams that have too many teams and may need to slow down a bit but how about a feature where I can just do a player search and it tells me what teams I have him on. For example, to change out Melky Cabrera today I had to search through all my teams to see which of my teams I had him on.

I do have a notebook with all my teams but a list on the site would be fantastic and would make multi team management much easier and could lead to more buys.

[mbendar16]

In Todd's comments, he brought up round 30 as a potential time picks will be made, but my concern would be it can start as soon as round 7 and have 43 autopicks. Let's be honest, the reason the clock is being brought up at all is due to the people that choose not to listen to the advice of consideration for fellow players. Assuming 14 people are making their picks timely in a draft and 1 isn't, they are going to run out of time before round 15, probably earlier. At some point, one of the picks will asked to be changed because they essentially get skipped for 35 rounds. It may not be allowed, but would be a problem that Greg and Tom probably don't want to deal with.

The clock is a great idea, but like all other ideas, is not a perfect solution to the problem. The above example uses an inconsiderate owner as an example, but what about the players that can't make picks during their day at work (or while they are sleeping) and run out of time for the 50 hour clock because they are always up at times they can't make a pick. They would have to have 15-20 players in their queue constantly to be able to play the DC format.

I personally would manage under the current format or the clock solution but trying to make points to get the best ideas/solutions for next year's DC drafts.

Mark

[Nevadaman]

Todd, I think you are way off base in your concerns about personal clocks. If someone runs out of time for whatever reason, it is only right that he/she suffer the consequences. I am sick and tired of douchebags who make everyone wait 7 hours for half their picks. The integrity of the competition will not be affected one iota. Does it really matter if an inconsiderate owner gets the top player in the Q during garbage time? I doubt anyone will run out of time during the meaningful rounds, unless he/she drops dead! Even the bad/inconsiderate owners are interested in their early picks. After the marquee players disappear, the inconsiderate owners frequently disappear with them. Now, let's address well-intentioned owners who run out of time for legitimate reasons like going to work, etc. First off, it is highly likely they won't run out of time until well into the draft. They will have their starting lineups and key reserves already. We can also assume they will have a stocked Q because we are talking about caring owners. The last 15-20 rounds have completely interchangeable players. It doesn't matter exactly who you get at that point because you are just rolling dice on prospects and reserves/injured players. Your apocalyptic vision is grossly overstated IMHO!

[BEF]

In terms of using an overall clock: why does the person who ran out of time even get to pick in order? What kind of penalty is it if the only decision is HOW their next pick is chosen, instead of WHEN they get to pick them? IMHO, if they run out of time, they go to the back of the line. So if you have 50 hours to make a pick (which I personally don't think is enough time) and churn up all your hours at Round 30, then you shouldn't get to pick your final 20 players until all the other law-abiding teams have finished their rosters. And if multiple owners do the same thing, then you simply continue the draft in order starting with "Round 51".

[joshguy]

I think there is demand for a 50 hour personal clock for those who want it, so why not just make it happen? It will be amusing though when we get the first message board rant because someone took 30 hours to make a pick! The express, 4 hour, 8 hour, $150, $375 all compete in the same overall prize pool structure so everyones not on equal footing anyway draft wise

[joshguy]

Doughboys got me thinking about injuries, on my teams I have anywhere from 10-15 DL'd players. What about expanding the draft 5 rounds?

I just checked one league, there are 38 pitchers who have pitched 50 innings or more that are free agents. 28 hitters who have over 150 ABs.

Most of those 38 pitchers are SPs, there are countless more MR that are available.

In the days of diminished PED use, more guys are going on the DL.

The last couple rounds go quickly, usually within a day so it would really only add 2 days at the most. Most teams use auto pick in those rounds anyway.

[Joe Sambito]

I like the format as is. Love how one can compete across the different price points for the same overall prize. As for the overall clock, a decent idea in theory, too tricky in practical practice.

One thing I would like to see, is being able to see old chats when logging back on. The key to a fun draft is communication, but it becomes tricky when people can't see what others have written about how they might be away for a few hours. As long as people are forthcoming about when they are going to be around and when they might not, I think they can move pretty well.

The idea of the East Coast/West Coast drafts are a good idea. I also think a draft where a requirement to have access at work makes some sense for some leagues.

[COZ]

Change the prize money so First place is awarded more money than 2nd & 3rd place. This may do away with the stack-pitching, punt-hitting draft strategies so as not to provide a financial incentive to finish in 3rd place.

In other words, why are we awarding $1,000 for 1st, 2nd & 3rd place equally (at least in the $375 DC's)? Too socialistic and self-esteem-building-istic in my opinion. Hate being in a draft where someone loads up on pitching just trying to finish in the money, not necessarily to win. The current prize structure (at least for the $375 DC's) encourages this. Additionally, many are doing the DC's for two reasons, the fun of it but also to prepare for the Main Events, and when quirky drafting strategies are employed to place in the money, this detracts from one of the reasons for participating.

COZ

[Winston's Empire]

Still my favorite format and I believe whoever came up with it (KJ Duke) might belong in the Baseball Hall of Fame or the NFBC Hall for sure! I personally don't have any complaints about the format and am proud to head up the 1000 SLOW (even though I almost didn't play this year )

If there are 2 things I have read that make the most sense to me, its the following.

1. I think its time to move away from the 1400-1400-1400 Prize Structure in the $375 Slows. I think it will stop guys from coming up with quirky plans and just let them draft the team that give them a chance to win!
My Proposed $375 Prize Structure
1st Place - $2250
2nd Place - $1200
3rd Place - $750

2. I think giving an individual 50 Total Hours Total (1 Hour Per Round) for the Slow Draft would take care of 95% of SLOW DRAFT complaints. Guys literally GO NUTS having to wait for others to draft and this will surely allow somebody to take their time when they really need it and be more reasonable in other times to keep things moving!

As always, great job NFBC! GO CUBS!

[DOUGHBOYS]

$400 entry

A- $1500-$1500-$1500 option
B- $3000-$1200-$400 option

[joshguy]

Still my favorite format and I believe whoever came up with it (KJ Duke) might belong in the Baseball Hall of Fame or the NFBC Hall for sure! I personally don't have any complaints about the format and am proud to head up the 1000 SLOW (even though I almost didn't play this year )

If there are 2 things I have read that make the most sense to me, its the following.

1. I think its time to move away from the 1400-1400-1400 Prize Structure in the $375 Slows. I think it will stop guys from coming up with quirky plans and just let them draft the team that give them a chance to win!
My Proposed $375 Prize Structure
1st Place - $2250
2nd Place - $1200
3rd Place - $750

2. I think giving an individual 50 Total Hours Total (1 Hour Per Round) for the Slow Draft would take care of 95% of SLOW DRAFT complaints. Guys literally GO NUTS having to wait for others to draft and this will surely allow somebody to take their time when they really need it and be more reasonable in other times to keep things moving!

As always, great job NFBC! GO CUBS!

Some people do really get bitter about slow drafters but can you imagine how people will freak when someone takes 14, 15 hours to make one pick? Very possibly just 1 or 2 picks could happen in 1 day. Even on the slowest of days at least one round will get done with the 8 hr clock.

I think a better compromise would be just make it a 6 hour clock. I consider myself a fast drafter, but I would find myself in some bad spots on the 4 hour clock, especially in the mornings when a flurry of picks can happen. A 6 hour clock at least gives people a little wiggle room around sleep/work/family obligations.

The two years I have been around, it seems like Greg is pushing people to make that leap into the "scary" realm of the auto pick. It still baffles me that people will think that if they choose auto one pick that some auto pick troll will come and give them the wrong player. So if Greg really wants people to start using that feature, a 6 hour clock could be the catalyst to do that. In this event, people just have to realize, you might not be able to be present for EVERY pick.

My guess is that more customers would come to love the 6 hour format and want to play more than people not being able to play the 8 hour game.

Or, why cant the express, 1 hr, 2 hr, 4 hr, 6 hr, 8 hr, 50 hr clock options just ALL be put on the sign up page and let the customer decide. This way no one is forced into a draft they're not comfortable with and people who want to go faster can more easily gain access to those drafts.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Thanks for all of the feedback folks. I knew you'd all provide some great insight. As much as I know impatience is the biggest "problem" of these slow drafts, the bottom line is that we'll do all we can to make it easier for folks to make their picks in the allotted time and we'll provide as many different options for owners as possible to compete in the fastest forms of the DC as possible. I think the biggest take-away for me is that we can spice up the $375-$400 DC with different prize payouts and we can offer the various options right on the Registration page just like live events have different options for their times. I'll look into all of that shortly.

I'll make a separate post for this, but yesterday we debuted a VASTLY IMPROVED Draft Prep tool that will easily allow you to set your own player default lists for NFBC and NFFC Online drafts. The tool we had before was very cumbersome, but now you'll have a tool that allows you to drag and drop your players where you want, rank by position, export your rankings to Excel, sort by stat categories, position, name, etc., and easily Search for players. As Michael Edelman said on the NFFC boards, it's 100000% better than it was before!! I agree with him.

Why will this help the slow drafts? Because I think once people have their own rankings in the online draft room, it will allow them to feel more comfortable making their picks and using the Round 1 Que feature. If you have YOUR rankings in the player default area, you're more ready for your next picks. And this draft prep tool is going to make it easy to set your rankings first thing in the off-season and to tweak them throughout the drafting season. You'll then be able to import those rankings from your last draft into your next draft and continue to draft each time with your newest rankings, tweaking them as you go, saving them and importing them again. It's a fabulous tool that will move all NFBC online drafts along quicker if people take the time to do the initial rankings.

Personal clocks aren't very feasible as Todd eloquently explained, although I understand the desire for them. Under the rules, everyone has 8 hours or 6 hours or 4 hours or even a minute (in DC Expresses) to make their picks. Hopefully they all understand that within this "community" you try to be respectful of others and pick in a timely manner. But not everyone lives the same way as the others, so you have to be patient while knowing they are within the rules of the contest to take their time. We'll continue to try and make it easier for everyone to make their picks and maybe soon we'll have draft options for every single electronic device on the planet, which would help. So again, we're looking at technical improvements to move these DCs along, not player clocks or red flags on those owners. We want to create tools that allow owners to more easily make their picks and then if they are still taking the full 8 hours per pick, then we need to have a discussion.

If you're playing in the NFFC right now, check out our new Draft Prep tool. It's pretty awesome. And it will be live on your team pages when DC drafts start here in November. We are really looking forward to a great 2014 NFBC season and are as prepared for the next season as we've ever been before. Thanks all and I know what's needed for the next DC season.

[gpchurchill]

i was an early proponent of the individual clock. Tod has convinced me that the application is infeasible (imagine if four or five owners use up their time...nightmare ). if a six hour clock league was available, that would be my first choice. drafting most of my teams from some golf course in new zealand, the four hour clock is just too tight.