Fun with Numbers...Or, Now, the Joey Votto Thread

[DOUGHBOYS]

Short and sweet for Joey Votto.
He hit against one of the best pitchers in baseball in Clayton Kershaw and had a 4-0-1-0.
His hit, on a count with just one strike. His outs, all with two strike counts. Nuff said.

Or, another way to say it............


Ball, Ball, Strike (looking), Ball, J Votto doubled to deep center - Patently took the first 4 pitches he saw, then a double on the first pitch he could handle. No RBI or run scored because the bums in front and behind him made outs.

Strike (foul), Ball, Strike (looking), Ball, Foul, Strike (swinging), J Votto struck out swinging- Aggressively fouled off the First pitch trying to drive in the runner on second, fouled off another before striking out on a slider

Strike (looking), Strike (looking), J Votto lined out to left - Frozen like a pizza on a slider and curve ball from the best left hander in the NL, then lined out on a fastball leading off the inning

Strike (foul), Ball, Strike (swinging), Foul, J Votto lined out to left- Aggressively fouled off the First Pitch trying to tie the game with a HR as he lead off in the 9th inning down 1 run, aggressively swung at and fouled off two more pitches, then lined out

Those aggressive early swings only added to his above .800 batting average on first pitches.
Results matter.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Patently took the first 4 pitches he saw,

Yesterday, I can't remember who it was, but a pitcher got up and swung at the first pitch. Commentators criticized him for swinging at the first pitch when the other pitcher had had control problems. He then swung at the next pitch and fouled it off.
Then, ball one. Ball two. Ball three.
It was then that the announcers gave him credit for 'working' a 3-2 count.
Arrggh!
He 'worked' nothing!
He had done what the announcers wanted him to do, only two pitches later. But since he had two strikes on him, he had 'worked' the count.
So, I guess this pitcher could be said to be 'working' a full count, or 'waiting patiently' for three pitches.
Every at bat is now scrutinized in different ways.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I can say some unflattering things about Joey Votto, but in fantasy, Joey Votto is a comfortable player to have.
The box score we dread the most is 4-0-0-0. We hate that box!
Joey Votto gets a 4-0-0-0 less than almost any player in the Majors. One reason is his .320 average.
Another, is his penchant to take a walk. Usually resulting in three official at bats.
Joey Votto has only had eight 4-0-0-0's all year.And while RotoWorld will remind us that Votto has only had three multi-hit games in July, they'll never mention that tonight was his first 0 fer four this month.
Yes, Votto had an 0fer, it happens to everybody, so we won't go into the at bats.

Just as a player to bounce Votto's stats against, I used Adam Jones as Votto's opposite in being more aggressive than Votto earlier in this thread.
Both players have had one 0 fer five, and while Votto has had eight 0 fer 4's, Jones has had 17. More than twice as many, even though Votto only hits 27 points in batting average higher than Jones.

Part of Votto's appeal is in his safeness.
Sparse injuries, no slumps, few 0 fer four's, all make Votto as comfy as a favorite sweat shirt.
At least one in every 15 drafters will think of him worthy of being first round pick.

[DOUGHBOYS]

My Pal Joey.
I get e-mails and comments from those that think I dislike Votto.
I don't dislike Joey Votto.
I simply won't be taking him in the first round of drafts next year.
That's all. No biggie.

Votto, yesterday was Votto, Vintage 2013.

On his first at bat, he lined a single on the first pitch seen.

Second at bat, he had an at bat that announcers live for. An eight pitch at bat where he didn't swing the bat till after two strikes were called.
The announcers called it 'a great at bat'. We call it, a strike out.

Third at bat, Votto doubles on the first pitch thrown.

Fourth at bat, he takes a ball, then lines a shot to center field for an out.

In the three at bats, each ending with a hard line drive, four pitches were seen and he went two for three.
In the one at bat that ended with a strike out, eight pitches were seen and he had a 'great at bat'.

Votto now has two homers in his last 100 at bats.
I have nothing against Joey Votto. I simply feel that Joey Votto is Joey Votto.
He's not going to change. In some folks mind, that's ok. First rounder all the way.
In my mind, I don't see fantasy improvement.
Although we draft our first rounders for their past, we're the poor sombitches that have to deal with their future.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Allow me to re-open this thread with some more thoughts about, My Pal Joey.
No matter what I say, Votto will be taken in every first round of every NFBC draft. He's a comfortable pick.
So, I picture myself jabbering in front of a lot of folks who are doing this...
And that's ok, I have a wife. I'm used to it.

As said before, I will not be taking Votto in the first round. Votto bats third in a lineup. One of the best lineups in the National League. In one of the smallest parks in baseball. His situation should breed rbi and home runs.
It doesn't.
But, Votto hits above .300 and has a great past. THAT is what will make him a first round pick.
But as Votto owners this year know, Votto has come woefully short in power categories. Votto is 32nd on the MLB list in homers.
Worse, he is 55th in rbi. Is that a 1B/First Rounder?
I don't think so.

I've expounded about Votto's love of the walk. Great for real baseball, uh, not so great for fantasy baseball.
Votto has walked more than any player in baseball. A lot more.
With the reds lineup and Votto's hitting philosophy, the Reds are missing the boat by not hitting him second, especially against right handers.
He has 88 walks. Those 88 walks have resulted in 26 runs and one rbi.
And more importantly, at least for his owners, no chances for home runs or more rbi.
He has 72 more walks than Adam Jones, yet has scored three less runs than Jones.

We like our first rounders to get the maximum number of at bats. Joey Votto does this...well sort of.
Playing on a great team and hitting up in the lineup, Votto is fourth in all of baseball with 524 plate appearances.
However, when taking walks into account, Votto is a measly 46th in real at bats.
Worse, the less at bats means that his average is less effective for our stats over a year's time.
I talked to an NFBC player who was a little disappointed in his first round pick, Andrew McCutchen yesterday. McCutchen has missed a few games with injury this year and also played through some other maladies as well.
Yet, Joey Votto and McCutchen have the same number of at bats, 428.
Votto's line- .322/79/17/55/4
McCutchen's- .313/72/16/66/24
All in all, I'd rather have a painful McCutchen than steady Votto.

This year, Votto is a two category player. He is top 10 in baseball in batting average and runs. This is something we'd like out of our leadoff hitters rostered.
If wanting consistent hitting categories in all hitting categories, we can even get that from a second or third round draft choice last year in NFBC drafts, Adrian Beltre. Beltre is in the top 20 in all four hitting categories, including seventh in batting average and 11th in homers. A more tasty combination than Votto.

Votto's power numbers can be found even at the bottom of NFBC drafts.
His 17/55 is so pedestrian, that a player who sometimes was taken after the 30th round in 50 round drafts approaches Votto's numbers. James Loney has a 10/53 and is hitting over .300 like Votto.
If covering runs scored with another player, Joey Votto IS James Loney this year.

Look, I know that the Numerish and Canada have a National hero in Joey Votto.
Ranks right up there with Dudley Dooright. Even has the same chin and image.
I get it and I respect that.
But, I don't want to see Joey Votto on my fantasy team next year.
During the off season, it'll be said that Votto 'is bound to get better stats next year'.
I won't bite.
It's hard to get better stats taking pitches. And Votto says he will not change his approach.
Pitchers won't help him by grooving many pitches down the middle as Votto preferred in the past.
It's a different game now, than even two years ago.
Votto is happy taking a walk. So is the opposing pitcher.
It's his owners who do not share in that happiness.