Is It Time For $100,000 In 12-Team Main?

[KJ Duke]

Greg, from a business standpoint, personally, I think anything you can do to grow things is invaluable. Giving people choices is a good thing. We can pick and choose what we want, but also...if you are making money...I'm thinking the contests will continue to be here and that is what we all want.

As far as names, I was going to joke about how we should look at it like a drunk 16 year old at a party... who cares what her name is... doesn't matter....but someone above mentioned the 12 team had 3 different. Names. ..I think lowry...anyone...I heard of double play but had no idea what it was and that it had changed. Do your best to brand them and stay with it.

lastly...I remember when the draft championship had 10k...now 75k expected...WOW!!!!

I don't think you will cannabalize things too much.

I know it is not the direction this are going but I would like to see one 20 or 25 team league...15 will work though.

Ohhhh, a high stakes 20-teamer. Now you have my attention. How about a 20tm auction!

[Edwards Kings]

East coast rule says we have to take it away. So it's actually Wayne EdWADS.

Edwads sounds just right, but has rule been cleared with Ambosius and Kersenich?

Juprinka, I like EdWADS. EdWADS Kings, it definately has a ring to it.

Just checked my birth certificate...it IS Edwads!

[KJ Duke]

RJ, somehow I see Ambosius and Kersenich using their veto power on this one. Though considering they want to rename the Main Event, I suppose anything's possible.

By rule, I think it's KJ Durk!

[poopytooth]

Greg, from a business standpoint, personally, I think anything you can do to grow things is invaluable. Giving people choices is a good thing. We can pick and choose what we want, but also...if you are making money...I'm thinking the contests will continue to be here and that is what we all want.

As far as names, I was going to joke about how we should look at it like a drunk 16 year old at a party... who cares what her name is... doesn't matter....but someone above mentioned the 12 team had 3 different. Names. ..I think lowry...anyone...I heard of double play but had no idea what it was and that it had changed. Do your best to brand them and stay with it.

lastly...I remember when the draft championship had 10k...now 75k expected...WOW!!!!

I don't think you will cannabalize things too much.

I know it is not the direction this are going but I would like to see one 20 or 25 team league...15 will work though.

Ohhhh, a high stakes 20-teamer. Now you have my attention. How about a 20tm auction!

Yes! Let's get it done!

[KJ Duke]

20-team Auction, $1500 entry, 90% payback

1st - 15,000
2nd - 5,000
3rd - 3,000
4th - 2,500
5th - 1,500

?????

[homer35h]

I haven't played in a few years since I live Iowa and can't play. But still follow all the leagues and such that you guys do. Just a few ideas.
1.One of my issues with the online championship is it has a lottery type feel to it. I think if you split them into 2 and did 1 at 15 teams and 1 at 12 teams would be a great idea. What about 600 for the 12 team and 750 for the 15 team? If I could play would definitely be interested in that.

2.I love the main event,yes that's what I will always call it. I wouldn't change anything about it. Its definitely the contest that I miss playing in the most.

3.The primetime, what about $2,000 entry and $200,000 payout? That would make it stick out from the the online championship and the main event.

4.The Diamond,Super,Ultimate are all awesome leagues and think they speak for themselves

[Greg Ambrosius]

Besides it being the actual spelling of his name? I think Wayne Erdwards had something to with it.

Yes we do have Wayne to thank don't we Lowry lol... But c'mon Lowry, Edwards already has a r. East coast rule says we have to take it away. So it's actually Wayne EdWADS.[/quote]

Okay, this is how it looked in Las Vegas!! These East Coasters came into the ballroom and JUST TOOK OVER!! Talk, talk, talk. That's all they ever do!!

But I must admit, Wayne EdWADS did make me laugh!!

Talk about hijacking a thread, this is a new one. But it's made me laugh!!

[Greg Ambrosius]

Greg, from a business standpoint, personally, I think anything you can do to grow things is invaluable. Giving people choices is a good thing. We can pick and choose what we want, but also...if you are making money...I'm thinking the contests will continue to be here and that is what we all want.

As far as names, I was going to joke about how we should look at it like a drunk 16 year old at a party... who cares what her name is... doesn't matter....but someone above mentioned the 12 team had 3 different. Names. ..I think lowry...anyway...I heard of double play but had no idea what it was and that it had changed. Do your best to brand them and stay with it.

lastly...I remember when the draft championship had 10k...now 75k expected...WOW!!!!

I don't think you will cannabalize things too much.

I know it is not the direction this are going but I would like to see one 20 or 25 team league...15 will work though.

Finally, a post that makes sense. Thanks Michael. You are right, it has to be our call to grow this event and everyone here has such passion for the Main Event that we will always have great participation there. Heck, we had 435 teams there last year and only 228 in the NFBC XII. So if we're willing to guarantee more money in the 12-Team Main Event and we think we can get more than 228 teams then it's on us to promote it and bring in more new players. We're on it.

Now that doesn't mean we're going to lower a grand prize in one event to create a new contest, so sorry but the NFBC Online Championship remains a 12-team event with a $75,000 grand prize. The demand increases each year there and we already have a 15-team primer in the NFBC Draft Champions League, which also has a new record grand prize of $20,000 this year. Michael, you are right: When we started the Online Championship we guaranteed $10,000 and I was worried about breaking even there. We built it, we promoted it and people supported it. The NFBC XII didn't have a big enough carrot to make it work and hopefully this new $100,000 grand prize will make it happen. We'll see, but you are right, it's now on us to make it happen.

I blame someone at Fanball for the Double Play name. I blame myself and Tom for the Roman Numerals!! Let's see if we can get it right the third time.

20 or 25 team league?? Oh boy, now you're killin' me!!

[Greg Ambrosius]

I may end up taking Joe's suggestion of entering one or two main events each and calling it a day. If I do I will be playing the 12 team main event with one of the entries and certainly prefer the higher buy in and prizes. I could see myself possibly ending up with 2 classic and 2 primetimes next year. 4 might be a good number to keep it fun, especially without the private leagues with all the punting and what not that I do not enjoy.

Chad, having fun is the main thing and if you can't have fun win, lose or draw then nobody can blame anyone for getting out of the game. But it's great having you with us in Las Vegas and the addition of March Madness in Las Vegas with a great group of guys seems like fun to me. Especially with all these goofball East Coasters who now join us, doubling the size of our annual family reunion and more than doubling the fun at the Bellagio over 4 great, great days!! And you've had success in the 15-team (2nd overall two years ago) and the 12-teamer, so it seems odd that you'd leave altogether even if daily games are more profitable for you.

But again, if it's not fun then it's not worth it. I think we can create more prize money for everyone and still create more fun after a long, long winter. And I do agree that with TWO $100,000 grand prizes in baseball that we'll draw a lot of attention, bring in more new players and hopefully even keep some people like Joe said who maybe did get burned out by the 15-team format but still want to play for $100,000 here. There is a churn rate in the Main Event and at the very least we'll have a viable option for them.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I'm getting a better feel here for this.

[Greg Ambrosius]

I haven't played in a few years since I live Iowa and can't play. But still follow all the leagues and such that you guys do. Just a few ideas.
1.One of my issues with the online championship is it has a lottery type feel to it. I think if you split them into 2 and did 1 at 15 teams and 1 at 12 teams would be a great idea. What about 600 for the 12 team and 750 for the 15 team? If I could play would definitely be interested in that.

2.I love the main event,yes that's what I will always call it. I wouldn't change anything about it. Its definitely the contest that I miss playing in the most.

3.The primetime, what about $2,000 entry and $200,000 payout? That would make it stick out from the the online championship and the main event.

4.The Diamond,Super,Ultimate are all awesome leagues and think they speak for themselves

The good news is that the Fantasy Sports Trade Association is working with an Iowa legislator right now to introduce a bill in the state that will include fantasy sports carveout language. It's the same thing that a Maryland legislator did last year and the bill passed in that state to clarify the legality of playing for Maryland residents. We're trying to do something in Iowa as well and hope to have similar results there.

Shoot me an email when you have time and I'll gladly discuss this and more, but we feel confident there and we are also working hard on another of the six exempt states. This is archaic that we even need to exempt six states when there's already a federal law that covers playing fantasy sports, but then it's also stupid that our government is closed, too. Still, I think there are some positive steps being taken and the FSTA is leading the way there.

[Deadheadz]

One other comment /suggestion is that I believe you should have 2 Online Championships including both the 15 team and 12 team formats. This way you have a farm system for both games. Those folks attempting to jump from the Online Championship now to the Main Event are at a serious disadvantage. I guess the drawback would be that the grand prize would be less because you'll have split the player pool. Ultimately it could lead to more growth as well.

Let me guess, Farm Team managers would not be eligible for being selected in the NFBC Draft the Drafters League until they appeared in at least one Main Event?

[joshguy]

I was strongly considering doing a XII team in 2014. $1000 was a nice number, but bumping it to $1500 would take me out of the running. My thinking if Im going to spend $1500 on one team, thats a big risk, I could almost get 5 of the online championship teams at that price and spread the risk.

Is there a way to bump the XII to $100K but still keep the $1,000 price point?

[Greg Ambrosius]

I was strongly considering doing a XII team in 2014. $1000 was a nice number, but bumping it to $1500 would take me out of the running. My thinking if Im going to spend $1500 on one team, thats a big risk, I could almost get 5 of the online championship teams at that price and spread the risk.

Is there a way to bump the XII to $100K but still keep the $1,000 price point?

The only way to bump up the NFBC XII to $100,000 at $1,000 per team is to plan for 600 teams. That's just not realistic.

This is the dilemma we face with the current setup. We might attract a few new owners at the $1,000 price point, but the last two years we've gotten 240 teams and 228 teams at that level with prizes based on 300 teams. We can't continue at that level anymore especially when the lower price point just isn't bringing in a lot of new owners. We once had this at $500 per team with a live event and even that didn't work. We learned the hard way that 1) a $500 live event is not cost effective; 2) the Online Championship didn't need any help to succeed and grow. It will do fine on it's own; and 3) sometimes a big carrot brings out the big sticks and more new players.

We still believe that a 12-Team Main Event has merit and maybe we've undersold it through the years. We love the demand for the Online Championship and for some folks maybe a $350 price point to win $75,000 is the right way to go, maybe even as you say taking three teams there. But if you want a 1 in 300 chance to win $100,000, hopefully the NFBC Primetime makes sense. If you win your league title, you basically have a 1 in 25 shot (25 leagues) of winning the overall title, which is among the best odds we have in the NFBC. It's definitely a risk, but it's been risky each of the last two years for us, too.

We don't want to price anyone out of our games and we don't want to build a new one that doesn't work, but there is a churn rate in the NFBC Main Event that is concerning and maybe this event can help with that while bringing in more new players. That's the goal with the new price and prize structure if we go forward with it. I hope this makes sense.

[Potter]

100k 12 teamer? Yes please.

Finding new owners who might be willing to plunk down $1500+ isn't easy. Finding new owners who might be willing to plunk down $1500+ and play in a format they have unlikely had any experience playing in, that most would consider harder, has to be considerably more difficult.

I've said it before, if the ME had started as a 12 team format, I suspect their would be at least 50% more annual entries.

The ME is awesome. It is and I suspect will always be the signature event. Especially for those of us who have been here since day 1. But I'm all for more options, more revenue for NFBC, more new owners and more formats with a large grand prize.

If someone were to take down both Main Events, it would set a new bar for most NFBC money won in a single season.

6K for beating 11 other owners is really nice. A prize like that buys a couple static-free years, minimum. At least in my house:-)

[Brock]

I couldn't agree more with the other posters that the Main Event is the Main Event. I like that baseball and football have different names like the World Series and the Super Bowl. Mark me down as a strong no in terms of changing names. As for as the X11 goes playing the online game for $350 chasing a $75K prize is enough action for me.

[Bama]

by Quahogs » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:33 pm

There is ONE thing I noticed right off the bat. Why are you jamming CLASSIC down our throats ? Baseball's signature event has always been the MAIN EVENT. ME for short. CLASSIC is the football tournament.


I agree with this. 15 team should always be the Main Event.



by KJ Duke » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:38 pm

$100k doesn't entice me, it's the format not the money. I think 12-tm has appeal to those entering high stakes from smaller yahoo/cbs leagues and daily games. You'll get a certain pct of the vet high stakes guys too, but it's a different style game than the ME - less emphasis on drafting and more emphasis on churning the roster. I'm going to leave it to the master churners going forward, just not my strength.


Also agree with most of this. Not a big fan of the 12 team leagues. Perception seems to be that they're easier when IMO they are much harder. In 12 team leagues a good draft guarantees you nothing. you have to churn your roster so much and your success depends more on that and the weekly management whereas a good draft in a 15 team format is a must along with some timely Faab and churning of the roster can only help so much.

[ReedBTLines]

I played the OLC and the XII this year. I don’t really think that increasing the entry fee and overall prize will bring in more players, but maybe I’m wrong. I think the XII/Primetime needs something more than the OLC with that big of a price difference on the entry fees (maybe paying 3rd place in league??). You’re still looking at 4 to 1 for winning a league and 2 to 1 for finishing second in both contests.

Paying an extra $1200 for the chance to win an extra $25,000 doesn’t really do it for me. Of course there are fewer players to compete against, but really only the top 3 or 4 teams really benefit much from the overall prizes. Those don’t draw me. I’d personally prefer the payouts of the $1000 12-satellite. Wish more of those could make.

I’ll definitely be on the fence at the new price point. I enjoyed the live draft tremendously, and that was my main attraction to the XII.

It would be interesting to see what would happen to the Main Event if there was a similar on-line contest for $350 that had a big payout like the Main. I think the Main would suffer a bit, but just my opinion.

[Money]

by Quahogs » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:33 pm

There is ONE thing I noticed right off the bat. Why are you jamming CLASSIC down our throats ? Baseball's signature event has always been the MAIN EVENT. ME for short. CLASSIC is the football tournament.


I agree with this. 15 team should always be the Main Event.



by KJ Duke » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:38 pm

$100k doesn't entice me, it's the format not the money. I think 12-tm has appeal to those entering high stakes from smaller yahoo/cbs leagues and daily games. You'll get a certain pct of the vet high stakes guys too, but it's a different style game than the ME - less emphasis on drafting and more emphasis on churning the roster. I'm going to leave it to the master churners going forward, just not my strength.


Also agree with most of this. Not a big fan of the 12 team leagues. Perception seems to be that they're easier when IMO they are much harder. In 12 team leagues a good draft guarantees you nothing. you have to churn your roster so much and your success depends more on that and the weekly management whereas a good draft in a 15 team format is a must along with some timely Faab and churning of the roster can only help so much.

Last Octobers debate about the 2 formats was summed up best by last years main event champ. He said that both were great games in their own right, just different. I'm not sure Greg wanted a debate about one format vs the other, just the viability of a second 100k purse.

I played in and won in both formats. I used 47 moves in the main event team I had. In the 3 XII teams I had I used an average of 46 moves per team. So much for churning. I like different aspects of both formats and especially like the the fact that FAAB takes a lot less time in the Main Event.

These are both Great events, just different. The NFBC wants to grow, a 12 team 100k event is the way to do just that.

Bama, congrats again on Great season!!

[joshguy]

off topic, but will there be any changes or additions to the draft champions league as far as entry prices or prizes?

[Greg Ambrosius]

I'm not sure Greg wanted a debate about one format vs the other, just the viability of a second 100k purse.

I played in and won in both formats. I used 47 moves in the main event team I had. In the 3 XII teams I had I used an average of 46 moves per team. So much for churning. I like different aspects of both formats and especially like the the fact that FAAB takes a lot less time in the Main Event.

These are both Great events, just different. The NFBC wants to grow, a 12 team 100k event is the way to do just that.

Exactly Joe. I'm proud that so many people are loyal to the 15-team Main Event (there, maybe you convinced me ) and the goal isn't to take anything away there. The goal is to bring in more new participants to the NFBC overall and I wondered if a big carrot would help because we didn't grow enough before when the grand prize was $50,000. I think I have the feedback I wanted and we'll make a corporate decision on this next week. Thanks all.

But yes, both are great contests and both provide different strategies. Now let's get the prize pool a little more similar and if that doesn't work then we swung and missed. But there is a big market for 12-team leagues and even a big market for 10-team leagues. We hope to service them all with unique formats and the industry's biggest prizes. Hopefully they bring in new participants who one day gravitate to the Main Event.

[Gekko]

*Will never participate in a 10 team league
*Less than 5% chance I participate in a 12 team league. The bigger carrot (for a higher entry fee) does not entice me. I would likely play the OLC
*100% chance I play in 15 team leagues

[MadCow Sez]

*Will never participate in a 10 team league
*Less than 5% chance I participate in a 12 team league. The bigger carrot (for a higher entry fee) does not entice me. I would likely play the OLC
*100% chance I play in 15 team leagues

You or anonymous?

[Gekko]

both

[Greg Ambrosius]

*Will never participate in a 10 team league
*Less than 5% chance I participate in a 12 team league. The bigger carrot (for a higher entry fee) does not entice me. I would likely play the OLC
*100% chance I play in 15 team leagues

Never say never. With your lifestyle, you might actually like this format as much as the DCs, maybe more. Stay tuned.

[Greg Ambrosius]

off topic, but will there be any changes or additions to the draft champions league as far as entry prices or prizes?

The guaranteed grand prize will now be $20,000. Entry fees will now be $150, $400 and $1,000. The only adjustment to the league prizes will be seen in the $400 format, which now has prizes of $1,500, $1,500, $1,500. That was a suggestion from the participants that we agreed with.

Still 15 teams, 50 rounds, 8 hours per pick. We did now expand rosters. We will also run more Draft Champions Express Leagues and run those earlier in the off-season if demand is there.

The one feature that we really think can help move these along much more quickly and make all of our online drafts easier and more enjoyable for you folks is the improvement of the Draft Prep tool. Our NFFC owners can tell you about the improvements that were made there and they make setting your player default list much easier than it ever was before. Once you get your player default list set, tweaking it will be easier and easier, and hopefully you won't have to go searching for players you want in the DC's or in any of the NFBC online drafts. We really think the Draft Prep tool can help everyone as they do multiple online drafts here because your list can be imported easily from your last draft and updated quickly.