Possible NFBC Cutline Championship In 2014

[Deadheadz]

I saw the original post the day it went up but didn't think I was interested so I ignored the subject...until I saw there were 5 pages of replies.

I've chimed in once or twice as I read through them all but I've made sure to wait until I'm all caught up before sharing my opinion on what would make this new game the best it can be.

I didn't want to duplicate what someone else said or not take into account new ideas I hadn't yet considered.

When offering this new game NFBC should decide if their goal is:
A. Bring in new customers who are likely to play the new game only
-or-
B. Grow the existing customer base by attracting new players who will hopefully become more familiar with the core games and decide to join in over time.

Of course there may be some new core game players added with option A but if the hope is to add many new core game players then there are things which will promote option B.

Firstly, an ADP which is common to all NFBC games is important. Yes, ADP is constantly changing and not necessarily useful to everyone but it is a reflection of the perceived value of players in the draft pool as determined by NFBCers who (seem to) know what they're doing.

For an ADP list common to all NFBC games, it's important to go 450+ players deep which would support the 45 round draft idea for 10 team leagues. If your rosters are that deep then Best Ball is also a very good idea.

As far as scoring periods for Best Ball, why not "train" newbies to start thinking in NFBC terms and use the same Mon-Thurs and Fri-Sun biweekly scoring?

The other important factor for a common ADP is valuing players in a way that accurately reflects 5x5 roto.

That would mean whatever values are used in a points based game should see SB equal to Runs, SB equal to HR, etc. MLB players who hit many HRs still get a bonus because a Home Run also gives you a Run, at least one RBI and a positive change in AVG.

The same would go for Saves versus Wins. They need to be equal in value.

How to determine accurate point approximations for AVG, ERA and WHIP is another can of worms.

I'm no Mathlete so I'm not sure how to equate points to ratios but here's my suggestion:

Rather than Roto ranking NFBC managers relative to each other, Roto rank all MLB hitters (not just those drafted) relative to each other for the scoring period then assign points based on the ranking. Your team then gets the points for your best hitters based on the 14 required positions.

You do the same for pitching. Roto rank all MLB pitchers for the scoring period then assign points and you get the points for your best 9 pitchers.

To balance the value of hitters and pitchers relative to 5x5 you may need to multiply the pitcher points by 1.555 (14/9) or something like that.

If the speed of the draft is important, how about 30 rounds of live draft followed by 15 of auto-draft using user-defined rankings? I'm guessing there's a point where casual newbies might decide to switch to auto-draft anyway.

These are my opinions so you'll have the opportunity now to propose something better and/or improve on them.


Cheers!

[KJ Duke]

The other important factor for a common ADP is valuing players in a way that accurately reflects 5x5 roto.

I'm no Mathlete so I'm not sure how to equate points to ratios ...

The scoring formula proposed keeps relative player values consistent with 5x5 roto, as closely as possible anyway without having fractional points. So if that's your preference, there's no need to put on your mathlete hat to change it.

[Hells Satans]

My interest is tied directly to the amount of extra work I would need to do to re-rank my players for purposes of the cutline scoring system. The closer it gets to the traditional scoring system we used, the more likely I am to play.

[Deadheadz]

The scoring formula proposed keeps relative player values consistent with 5x5 roto, as closely as possible anyway without having fractional points. So if that's your preference, there's no need to put on your mathlete hat to change it.

There's been more than one formula proposed but I'll assume you are referring to the one in the original post which Greg made to start the thread.

I don't see how a point per K and three per IP relates to Roto whereas my suggestion would use actual ERA, WHIP and AVG in determining values.

[Navel Lint]

The scoring formula proposed keeps relative player values consistent with 5x5 roto, as closely as possible anyway without having fractional points. So if that's your preference, there's no need to put on your mathlete hat to change it.

There's been more than one formula proposed but I'll assume you are referring to the one in the original post which Greg made to start the thread.

I don't see how a point per K and three per IP relates to Roto whereas my suggestion would use actual ERA, WHIP and AVG in determining values.

I'm not sure how much value this opinion has. For the sake of clarity, can you please post how much money you spent in league fees this past season after all of your posts. it will help me to determine where your opinion should rank in relation to the the $350 player, mine and the "Whales"

[KJ Duke]

The scoring formula proposed keeps relative player values consistent with 5x5 roto, as closely as possible anyway without having fractional points. So if that's your preference, there's no need to put on your mathlete hat to change it.

There's been more than one formula proposed but I'll assume you are referring to the one in the original post which Greg made to start the thread.

I don't see how a point per K and three per IP relates to Roto whereas my suggestion would use actual ERA, WHIP and AVG in determining values.

Dead, creating complex valuation models has been part of my job for 20+ years. Creating a scoring model to mimic roto values isn't that difficult. Explaining it on a message board, particularly since you indicated that math is not a strong suit, would be a lot harder. If you really want to know, give me a call.

As for your suggestion, that would have greater limitations since one-week stat sample sizes would create more skewed results from actual roto than a cumulative point system designed to mimic cumulative roto stats.

[Deadheadz]

As for your suggestion, that would have greater limitations since one-week stat sample sizes would create more skewed results from actual roto than a cumulative point system designed to mimic cumulative roto stats.

Yes, that's something I considered at first. Then I realized we're talking about cumulative points for the first half season and just like roto a bunch of good performances by good players will tend to smooth over the few bad ones. When your point really takes effect is during the short playoff windows for each cut line. But that's one way this game is different than roto, the cut lines will reward those who excel during the small sample size of each playoff period.

But unlike H2H where playoff weeks don't take into account past performance, the cut line game allows the top teams to have an unluck week (or three) and still squeak in just above the cut.

I'm excited to see how the game plays out but I'm not likely to play in more than 1-2 of them. I'm saving my $$ for multiple slow DC leagues plus multiple 12 teamers in the Online Championship.

You won't see me in any ME or Auction leagues until I can attend a live event.


Cheers!

[Deadheadz]

I'm not sure how much value this opinion has. For the sake of clarity, can you please post how much money you spent in league fees this past season after all of your posts. it will help me to determine where your opinion should rank in relation to the the $350 player, mine and the "Whales"

My apologies. I wasn't aware an opinion's value was relative to how much was spent and/or won at NFBC.

Greg asked for ideas and opinions for a game which may appeal to those coming from ESPN/CBS backgrounds. That describes me pretty well. As far as how much I spent and won I a happy to say I won every league I entered in my rookie season at NFBC - which is to say one $350 entry and one $1400 win in OC Lg 2438 which included Lindy H.

But to you guys in the country club I'm sure that's very small potatoes. If the NFBC ME is The Show then I've barely had a single season at High-A.

If the point is to grow the core games it's likely the rest of the participants need to be open to the idea not just STATS. If the whales and serial drafters want the club to stay exclusive then perhaps it's a good idea to make the big money leagues private and only those who buy in get to decide the rules.

I'm batting 1.000 (very small sample size)


Cheers!

[Navel Lint]

I'm not sure how much value this opinion has. For the sake of clarity, can you please post how much money you spent in league fees this past season after all of your posts. it will help me to determine where your opinion should rank in relation to the the $350 player, mine and the "Whales"

My apologies. I wasn't aware an opinion's value was relative to how much was spent and/or won at NFBC.

Greg asked for ideas and opinions for a game which may appeal to those coming from ESPN/CBS backgrounds. That describes me pretty well. As far as how much I spent and won I a happy to say I won every league I entered in my rookie season at NFBC - which is to say one $350 entry and one $1400 win in OC Lg 2438 which included Lindy H.

But to you guys in the country club I'm sure that's very small potatoes. If the NFBC ME is The Show then I've barely had a single season at High-A.

I sent you a PM that explains my post........

I will say here though that your response perfectly illustrates what I was thinking and that you are right on the money

[BK METS]

I recommend, for those who are whining about not being "heard" because they don't spend enough money... go over to the other big High Stakes games and go on their boards and try to make a suggestion... See if you even get a response, no matter how much money you spend.

Greg and Tom have built a game here that is suited to the high stakes player BECAUSE many of the games offered here (slow draft, DC, Cutline, Auction championship) have been created by the players who play here. Can you tell me any other high stakes game where you find that?

[Outlaw]

I recommend, for those who are whining about not being "heard" because they don't spend enough money... go over to the other big High Stakes games and go on their boards and try to make a suggestion... See if you even get a response, no matter how much money you spend.

Greg and Tom have built a game here that is suited to the high stakes player BECAUSE many of the games offered here (slow draft, DC, Cutline, Auction championship) have been created by the players who play here. Can you tell me any other high stakes game where you find that?

Very Well Said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deadheadz]

I recommend, for those who are whining about not being "heard" because they don't spend enough money... go over to the other big High Stakes games and go on their boards and try to make a suggestion... See if you even get a response, no matter how much money you spend.

Greg and Tom have built a game here that is suited to the high stakes player BECAUSE many of the games offered here (slow draft, DC, Cutline, Auction championship) have been created by the players who play here. Can you tell me any other high stakes game where you find that?

You're right!
But this thread is specifically about a low price game and Greg solicited opinions so when I thought I was being told my opinion shouldn't matter because I'm a low rent newbie I sniped back not even sure the guy was serious. Turns out he was using me to illustrate a point.

I hope I didn't come off as whiny.

"Can I get a block of Vermont Cheddar with that whine?" - something you might hear said by Buster Olney


Cheers!

[Glenneration X]

We should probably put the class war to bed now. We all share in the passion for this hobby, whether "Cutline newbie" or "Diamond whale" or somewhere in between.

[Rainiers]

I love the Cutline format. It drew me over to the dark side.

I'd love it even more over here.

One thing I'd keep the same that hasn't been mentioned: No KDS. It encourages folks to play in multiple leagues. This is what motivated me, even more than the three team discount, to play in more than one league. That and the short draft, it was over so quick it left you wanting more.

Other suggestions, again mimicking the Cutline format over there:

1) Keep it simple and quick. Reduce the starting roster spots alot. It is VERY important that you shrink the starting roster a whole bunch in this format. Not so important exactly how, maybe something like: 11 starters total: 1 each catcher, 1 CI, 1MI; 2 OF, one flex hitter, five pitchers. Have 17 bench slots and go 28 rounds. This really mimics the football Cutline... Short draft, few starting roster spots, with plenty of bench players to last between three FAABs.

Think about the ratio, over there in NFFC Cutline you have 16 bench for 10 starting slots....with this suggestion, 17 bench for 11 starters. This kind of ratio is critically important.

You can't have 20+ starters AND have a short draft while keeping enough bench in reserve to allow the stretching out of the FAAB periods. It doesn't compute. You have to give up something, and I suggest you do it like you do over there...have a much smaller starting roster.

2) It is a good idea to use points in this format.

3) Also, weekly roster decisions are important to leave in in order to keep owners engaged and enjoying the game, but definately leave out Friday roster moves.

Good luck! This is a great idea.

PS: One thing I'd change: I'd love to see third round reversal... (and for that matter... third round reversal in all baseball draft formats)

[the icon]

Love the best ball as long as you have that I'm in. I must admit I get my self in to many leauges. Love the drafts though.

[BK METS]

I have an idea pertaining to the "best ball" format. I am assuming we are using best ball of the weekly total score for the players per position, based upon the original proposal.

What about a little twist to make it more interesting... How about taking the best ball on a nightly basis? In this case, if Albert Pujols hits 3 homers on Monday and is hurt for the rest of the week, at least you still get to take advantage of that big night, with the best ball that night. In the weekly best ball, if he were hurt, you wouldn't likely be using that big night, at all.

In addition, it will make it easier and more interesting to follow the stats on a nightly basis. You know exactly where you stand every day. In the weekly best ball, you wouldn't really know what stats you are using until the end of the week... Plus it stops people from drafting a bunch of middle relievers, since we are simply using points weekly, a scoreless 4 inning relief appearance in a week or 4 separate scoreless relief innings, could be your best ball for the entire week, whereas nightly best ball gives the starter or closer more individual value.

thoughts?

[Asumijet]

I have an idea pertaining to the "best ball" format. I am assuming we are using best ball of the weekly total score for the players per position, based upon the original proposal.

What about a little twist to make it more interesting... How about taking the best ball on a nightly basis? In this case, if Albert Pujols hits 3 homers on Monday and is hurt for the rest of the week, at least you still get to take advantage of that big night, with the best ball that night. In the weekly best ball, if he were hurt, you wouldn't likely be using that big night, at all.

In addition, it will make it easier and more interesting to follow the stats on a nightly basis. You know exactly where you stand every day. In the weekly best ball, you wouldn't really know what stats you are using until the end of the week... Plus it stops people from drafting a bunch of middle relievers, since we are simply using points weekly, a scoreless 4 inning relief appearance in a week or 4 separate scoreless relief innings, could be your best ball for the entire week, whereas nightly best ball gives the starter or closer more individual value.

thoughts?

Daily best ball makes this much more interesting and challenging. I like it. Given the added importance of the draft in this format; it makes every pick critical and on the aggregate rewards the best fantasy drafters. That said, I do see the multiple position batters making the best ball format more complex to program.

[ToddZ]

I have an idea pertaining to the "best ball" format. I am assuming we are using best ball of the weekly total score for the players per position, based upon the original proposal.

What about a little twist to make it more interesting... How about taking the best ball on a nightly basis? In this case, if Albert Pujols hits 3 homers on Monday and is hurt for the rest of the week, at least you still get to take advantage of that big night, with the best ball that night. In the weekly best ball, if he were hurt, you wouldn't likely be using that big night, at all.

In addition, it will make it easier and more interesting to follow the stats on a nightly basis. You know exactly where you stand every day. In the weekly best ball, you wouldn't really know what stats you are using until the end of the week... Plus it stops people from drafting a bunch of middle relievers, since we are simply using points weekly, a scoreless 4 inning relief appearance in a week or 4 separate scoreless relief innings, could be your best ball for the entire week, whereas nightly best ball gives the starter or closer more individual value.

thoughts?

I don't personally like it as it takes away the science of projecting players and makes it even more of a war of attrition as the healthiest lineups will rack up points on Monday and Thursday, but it completely skews the strategy of pitching. You'll have starts every night which makes it the equivalent of streaming -- it just totally messes with the dynamics of drafting.

[KJ Duke]

I don't personally like it as it takes away the science of projecting players and makes it even more of a war of attrition as the healthiest lineups will rack up points on Monday and Thursday, but it completely skews the strategy of pitching. You'll have starts every night which makes it the equivalent of streaming -- it just totally messes with the dynamics of drafting.

▲ Exactly.

Also, in a points format there's no reason you can't know where you are for the week ... same as in the football DCs where the highest scorers at each eligible position get bumped up to the starting slot in real time.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Okay, we have not given up on the NFBC Cutline Championship, but rather we've been busy getting all of our other contests launched within the new web site. There's no way we'll be able to finalize the Cutline Championship by then, but that doesn't mean we've given up on this 10-team format. We just have more work to do.

I do have the Rules written and a possible format in place that would include 10-team drafts and 30 rounds. That will keep these drafts as quick, nightly impulse buys with limited in-season work. We'll add 5 players to rosters during each of three FAAB periods to bring your Week 1 roster to 35 players and eventually to 45 players after Week 8. This will enable us to keep the quick drafts and still have expanded rosters to cover for injuries and minor-league callups.

The next item we need to solve is the scoring. I think it is important to keep our player values similar to NFBC style scoring or we'll make this a completely different contest than what we have now. Non-NFBC players hopefully will understand the scoring system quickly as well. We do want this contest to mirror 5x5 Rotisserie values in some respect and yet still have an easy-to-understand scoring system. We think we're close, but we still want more feedback from our players.

And finally, this will be a Best Ball format, so the computer will pick your optimal scoring lineup every week. Scoring will be done in real-time so that you can follow Overall Live Standings, but of course final results won't be tabulated until all Sunday games are complete. Scoring will run from Monday through Sunday every week and the regular season will run through the All-Star break.

If we used the following scoring system, here is how the point totals from 2013 would have turned out. We've placed them in order with their 2013 NFBC Cutline Championship points and their 2013 Roto Dollar Values. Is this a fair representation of our NFBC values, or does the scoring system still need more tweaking? See below and give us your feedback. Thanks all.

NFBC Cutline Championship Tentative Scoring System:
For Hitters
Home Run: 6 points
Stolen Base: 5 points
Hit: 4 points
Run: 2 points
RBI: 2 points
At-bat: -1 point

For Pitchers
Win: 6 points
Save: 6 points
Inning Pitched: 3 points
Strikeout: 1 point
Hit or Walk Allowed: -1 point
Earned Run Allowed: -2 points

2013 NFBC Cutline Championship Scoring Totals Compared To 2013 Roto Dollar Values

1. Miguel Cabrera 976 ($47)
2. Mike Trout 910 ($42)
3. Chris Davis 904 ($43)
4. Paul Goldschmidt 873 ($39)
5. Andrew McCutchen 780 ($30)
6. Adam Jones 775 ($31)
7. Hunter Pence 735 ($27)
8. Robinson Cano 728 ($25)
9. Clayton Kershaw 724 ($35)
10. Carlos Gomez 722 ($27)
11. Jacoby Ellsbury 715 ($26)
12. Alex Rios 714 ($26)
13. Adrian Beltre 710 ($22)
14. David Ortiz 696 ($23)
15. Freddie Freeman 692 ($21)
16. Edwin Encarnacion 685 ($24)
17. Alfonso Soriano 675 ($24)
18. Jason Kipnis 668 ($22)
19. Max Scherzer 662.9 ($31)
20. Matt Holliday 660 ($20)
21. Matt Carpenter 659 ($18)
22. Jayson Werth 658 ($19)
23. Josh Donaldson 650 ($18)
24. Joey Votto 649 ($18)
25. Michael Cuddyer 645 ($17)
26. Adam Wainwright 642.1 ($27)
27. Jean Segura 642 ($19)
28. Jay Bruce 641 ($19)
29. Yu Darvish 627.1 ($26)
30. Daniel Murphy 627 ($17)
31. Shin-Soo Choo 627 ($17)
32. Carlos Gonzalez 626 ($18)
33. Dustin Pedroia 620 ($15)
34. Eric Hosmer 616 ($15)
35. Ian Desmond 611 ($16)
36. Cliff Lee 607.1 ($25)
37. Prince Fielder 603 ($15)
38. Elvis Andrus 602 ($16)
39. Evan Longoria 601 ($15)
40. Torii Hunter 595 ($13)
41. Carlos Beltran 582 ($12)
42. Coco Crisp 578 ($14)
43. Hisashi Iwakuma 577.1 ($24)
44. Adrian Gonzalez 576 ($12)
45. Starling Marte 575 ($14)
46. Troy Tulowitzki 573 ($11)
47. Ryan Zimmerman 568 ($12)
48. Marlon Byrd 568 ($11)
49. Shane Victorino 564 ($12)
50. Justin Upton 560 ($12)
51. Mark Trumbo 559 ($13)
52. Chris Sale 558.9 ($21)
53. Alex Gordon 556 ($11)
54. Allen Craig 556 ($9)
55. Madison Bumgarner 548.9 ($22)
56. Craig Kimbrel 546 ($18)
57. Domonic Brown 542 ($10)
58. David Wright 533 ($8)
59. Felix Hernandez 531.9 ($19)
60. Brandon Moss 530 ($10)
61. Jose Bautista 529 ($10)
62. Jordan Zimmermann 528.9 ($20)
63. Pedro Alvarez 528 ($10)
64. Alejandro De Aza 527 ($9)
65. Ian Kinsler 526 ($9)
66. Brandon Phillips 525 ($9)
67. Jose Fernandez 524.1 ($21)
68. Hanley Ramirez 524 ($7)
69. Matt Harvey 523.9 ($21)
70. Greg Holland 522 ($16)
71. Yadier Molina 522 ($15)
72. Manny Machado 521 ($7)
73. Jose Altuve 519 ($7)
74. Anibal Sanchez 518 ($19)
75. James Shields 517.1 ($17)
76. Will Venable 511 ($8)
77. Victor Martinez 509 ($5)
78. Wilin Rosario 505 ($15)
79. Alexei Ramirez 505 ($6)
80. Mike Minor 504.1 ($18)
81. Mike Napoli 503 ($7)
82. Jed Lowrie 502 ($5)
83. Mat Latos 500.1 ($17)
84. Michael Brantley 499 ($6)
85. Jonathan Lucroy 498 ($15)
86. Kyle Seager 498 ($6)
87. Chase Utley 496 ($5)
88. Homer Bailey 495 ($16)
89. Justin Verlander 494.9 ($15)
90. Brandon Belt 492 ($5)
91. Kendrys Morales 492 ($4)
92. Yasiel Puig 491 ($4)
93. Patrick Corbin 485.9 ($16)
94. Joe Nathan 483.1 ($15)
95. Brett Gardner 483 ($5)
96. Ben Zobrist 483 ($4)
97. Adam Lind 482 ($4)
98. Martin Prado 482 ($3)
99. C.J. Wilson 481.9 ($14)
100. Cole Hamels 479 ($14)
101. Justin Masterson 478 ($16)
102. Yoenis Cespedes 478 ($6)
103. Leonys Martin 477 ($6)
104. J.J. Hardy 475 ($4)
105. Stephen Strasburg 474 ($16)
106. Bryce Harper 473 ($4)
107. Carlos Santana 472 ($12)
108. Chris Tillman 471.9 ($15)
109. A.J. Burnett 470 ($15)
110. Zack Greinke 469.1 ($17)
111. Norichika Aoki 469 ($2)
112. Billy Butler 468 ($2)
113. Nelson Cruz 464 ($3)
114. Nate McLouth 463 ($4)
115. Chris Johnson 462 ($0)
116. Bartolo Colon 461.9 ($16)
117. Julio Teheran 461.1 ($15)
118. Kris Medlen 461 ($14)
119. Desmond Jennings 461 ($4)
120. A.J. Griffin 460 ($14)
121. Buster Posey 458 ($10)
122. James Loney 458 ($0)
123. Austin Jackson 456 ($2)
124. Daniel Nava 456 ($1)
125. Hyun-Jin Ryu 455 ($14)
126. Ervin Santana 455 ($13)
127. Gio Gonzalez 454.1 ($13)
128. Aroldis Chapman 453.1 ($12)
129. Jon Lester 452.9 ($12)
130. Derek Holland 452 ($12)
131. Shelby Miller 451.9 ($15)
132. Lance Lynn 450.1 ($12)
133. Josh Hamilton 450 ($2)
134. Jim Johnson 448.9 ($10)
135. R.A. Dickey 447.1 ($12)
136. Ubaldo Jimenez 443.1 ($13)
137. Eric Young 443 ($3)
138. Brian Dozier 440 ($2)
139. Denard Span 438 ($0)
140. Hiroki Kuroda 437.9 ($13)
141. Francisco Liriano 437 ($14)
142. Adam Dunn 436 ($2)
143. Ricky Nolasco 435.9 ($12)
144. Kenley Jansen 435.1 ($13)
145. Jon Jay 432 ($0)
146. Travis Wood 431 ($12)
147. Everth Cabrera 430 ($1)
148. David Price 428.1 ($13)
149. Anthony Rizzo 428 ($1)
150. Michael Bourn 428 ($0)
151. Doug Fister 426.1 ($10)
152. Chris Carter 422 ($1)
153. John Lackey 421.9 ($12)
154. Colby Rasmus 421 ($-1)
155. Rajai Davis 420 ($1)
156. Jose Quintana 418 ($10)
157. Omar Infante 418 ($-3)
158. Addison Reed 416.9 ($9)
159. Salvador Perez 416 ($6)
160. Howie Kendrick 416 ($-3)
161. Joe Mauer 415 ($5)
162. Nick Markakis 415 ($-3)
163. Dexter Fowler 414 ($-1)
164. Koji Uehara 413.9 ($13)
165. Bronson Arroyo 411 ($11)
166. Jeff Samardzija 409.1 ($8)
167. Jarrod Saltalamacchia 409 ($7)
168. Kyle Lohse 407.1 ($10)
169. Gerardo Parra 407 ($-3)
170. Nate Schierholtz 406 ($-2)
171. Pablo Sandoval 405 ($-3)
172. Glen Perkins 403.1 ($9)
173. Nick Swisher 402 ($-2)
174. Jason Castro 401 ($6)
175. Jhoulys Chacin 400.9 ($10)
176. Steve Cishek 400.1 ($9)
177. Justin Morneau 400 ($-3)
178. Rafael Soriano 399.1 ($7)
179. Raul Ibanez 398 ($-2)
180. Chris Denorfia 398 ($-3)
181. Mike Leake 397.9 ($10)
182. Sergio Romo 397.9 ($9)
183. Dillon Gee 396 ($9)
184. Andrelton Simmons 396 ($-3)
185. Giancarlo Stanton 396 ($-3)
186. Fernando Rodney 395.1 ($8)
187. Ernesto Frieri 395.1 ($7)
188. Andrew Cashner 395 ($11)
189. Jose Reyes 395 ($-4)
190. Tim Lincecum 394.1 ($8)
191. Jedd Gyorko 391 ($-3)
192. Matt Moore 390.9 ($11)
193. Wade Miley 388.1 ($8)
194. A.J. Pierzynski 388 ($4)
195. Matt Wieters 387 ($6)
196. Erick Aybar 386 ($-5)
197. Grant Balfour 383.1 ($7)
198. Jarrod Parker 382 ($8)
199. Matt Cain 381.9 ($9)
200. Todd Frazier 381 ($-3)
201. CC Sabathia 379 ($6)
202. Scott Feldman 378.1 ($9)
203. Jhonny Peralta 378 ($-6)
204. Adam LaRoche 377 ($-4)
205. Alex Cobb 376.9 ($10)
206. Asdrubal Cabrera 373 ($-4)
207. Matt Dominguez 373 ($-5)
208. Eric Stults 371.1 ($7)
209. Edward Mujica 369.1 ($7)
210. Wil Myers 366 ($-6)
211. Stephen Drew 362 ($-6)
212. Mark Buehrle 360.1 ($5)
213. Jimmy Rollins 358 ($-6)
214. Jered Weaver 357.9 ($9)
215. Zack Cozart 355 ($-7)
216. Casey Janssen 354.1 ($7)
217. Rick Porcello 354 ($6)
218. Carl Crawford 354 ($-7)
219. Jeremy Guthrie 351.1 ($4)
220. Ichiro Suzuki 350 ($-7)
221. La De 349.1 ($7)
222. Jim Henderson 349 ($7)
223. Albert Pujols 346 ($-7)
224. Andre Ethier 346 ($-8)
225. Miguel Gonzalez 345.9 ($7)
226. Scott Kazmir 345 ($6)
227. A.J. Pollock 345 ($-8)
228. Yovani Gallardo 344.1 ($5)
229. Mitch Moreland 344 ($-7)
230. Joaquin Benoit 343 ($7)
231. Dan Haren 340.1 ($5)
232. Clay Buchholz 339.9 ($10)
233. Jason Grilli 339 ($5)
234. Matt Garza 337.9 ($6)
235. Jonathan Papelbon 336.1 ($6)
236. Chase Headley 336 ($-8)
237. Juan Uribe 335 ($-9)
238. Huston Street 334.1 ($5)
239. Matt Joyce 334 ($-8)
240. Evan Gattis 334 ($-8)
241. Justin Ruggiano 333 ($-7)
242. Neil Walker 333 ($-9)
243. Mark Reynolds 332 ($-7)
244. Corey Kluber 331.9 ($6)
245. Brian McCann 328 ($0)
246. Jake Peavy 327.1 ($7)
247. Michael Saunders 325 ($-8)
248. J.B. Shuck 325 ($-11)
249. Tommy Milone 323.9 ($5)
250. Jeff Locke 323.9 ($4)
251. Drew Stubbs 323 ($-8)
252. Yunel Escobar 320 ($-10)
253. Kevin Gregg 319 ($3)
254. Dan Straily 317.9 ($5)
255. Emilio Bonifacio 316 ($-9)
256. Alcides Escobar 313 ($-9)
257. Ivan Nova 312.9 ($5)
258. Bud Norris 310.1 ($2)
259. Jason Heyward 310 ($-11)
260. Michael Young 310 ($-12)
261. Dayan Viciedo 309 ($-11)
262. Mark Melancon 307 ($5)
263. David Freese 307 ($-11)
264. Wily Peralta 306.9 ($2)
265. Nolan Arenado 306 ($-12)
266. Russell Martin 305 ($-1)
267. Chris Archer 304.1 ($6)
268. Justin Smoak 304 ($-11)
269. Felix Doubront 303.9 ($2)
270. Josh Reddick 300 ($-10)
271. Gregor Blanco 298 ($-12)
272. Ian Kennedy 297.9 ($1)
273. Mike Aviles 297 ($-11)
274. Starlin Castro 297 ($-12)
275. Marco Estrada 296 ($5)
276. Aramis Ramirez 296 ($-12)
277. Aaron Hill 296 ($-13)
278. Ryan Dempster 295.9 ($1)
279. Lorenzo Cain 295 ($-11)
280. Kelly Johnson 295 ($-11)
281. Alberto Callaspo 295 ($-12)
282. Jeremy Hellickson 294 ($2)
283. Tony Cingrani 293.1 ($5)
284. Andy Dirks 293 ($-12)
285. Trevor Plouffe 293 ($-13)
286. Ryan Doumit 292 ($-3)
287. Brett Lawrie 292 ($-12)
288. Gerrit Cole 290.9 ($5)
289. Rex Brothers 290.9 ($3)
290. Marco Scutaro 290 ($-15)
291. Ben Revere 287 ($-13)
292. DJ LeMahieu 284 ($-14)
293. Bobby Parnell 282 ($3)
294. Hector Santiago 281 ($1)
295. Lyle Overbay 281 ($-13)
296. Jonny Gomes 281 ($-13)
297. Tyson Ross 280 ($3)
298. Mark Ellis 279 ($-14)
299. Jason Vargas 271 ($1)
300. Brad Ziegler 270 ($3)
301. Joe Kelly 269 ($3)
302. Chris Perez 267 ($1)
303. Yonder Alonso 266 ($-15)
304. Jose Veras 265.1 ($1)
305. Will Middlebrooks 265 ($-14)
306. Tim Hudson 264.9 ($2)
307. Bruce Chen 264 ($3)
308. Vernon Wells 263 ($-14)
309. Zach McAllister 262.9 ($1)
310. Brandon Barnes 261 ($-14)
311. Carlos Villanueva 258.1 ($1)
312. John Buck 258 ($-5)
313. Pedro Florimon 258 ($-14)
314. Garrett Jones 257 ($-15)
315. David DeJesus 254 ($-16)
316. Jose Iglesias 253 ($-17)
317. Paul Konerko 251 ($-16)
318. Martin Perez 250.9 ($1)
319. Tommy Hunter 247.9 ($3)
320. Luke Hochevar 246.9 ($4)
321. Eric Sogard 246 ($-17)
322. Brandon Crawford 246 ($-17)
323. Brad Miller 245 ($-17)
324. Dan Uggla 244 ($-14)
325. Juan Francisco 244 ($-16)
326. Oswaldo Arcia 244 ($-17)
327. Charlie Morton 242 ($1)
328. Conor Gillaspie 242 ($-17)
329. Welington Castillo 240 ($-9)
330. Cody Ross 240 ($-18)
331. Heath Bell 239.1 ($0)
332. Drew Smyly 238 ($2)
333. Trevor Rosenthal 236.9 ($1)
334. LaTroy Hawkins 236.1 ($0)
335. David Lough 236 ($-18)
336. A.J. Ellis 232 ($-8)
337. Nick Franklin 231 ($-17)
338. John Mayberry 230 ($-17)
339. Seth Smith 230 ($-18)
340. Jordy Mercer 230 ($-19)
341. Chris Young 227 ($-16)
342. Jose Tabata 227 ($-19)
343. David Robertson 224.9 ($2)
344. Tyler Clippard 223 ($2)
345. David Murphy 223 ($-18)
346. Neal Cotts 222 ($3)
347. Cody Allen 220.9 ($1)
348. J.P. Arencibia 220 ($-8)
349. Gordon Beckham 220 ($-19)
350. Alfredo Simon 218.1 ($1)

[ALL-IN JD]

Greg,

In my humble opinion 5 points for a stolen base is very much on the high side when a Home Run is 6 points. I think 4 or maybe even 3 points is more reasonable. Just my two cents.

[KJ Duke]

Greg,

In my humble opinion 5 points for a stolen base is very much on the high side when a Home Run is 6 points. I think 4 or maybe even 3 points is more reasonable. Just my two cents.

A HR would actually score 10-13 points in the cutline because you get additional points for the hit, R and xRBI.

[ALL-IN JD]

Exactly what I meant to say KJ!

[ToddZ]

Greg,

In my humble opinion 5 points for a stolen base is very much on the high side when a Home Run is 6 points. I think 4 or maybe even 3 points is more reasonable. Just my two cents.

In order to make the player's worth as close to traditional 5x5, you have to look at the coefficients myopically and use what makes the numbers work as opposed to what is intuitively more fair.

Using Ellsbury as an example, he slots in with

10. Carlos Gomez 722 ($27)
11. Jacoby Ellsbury 715 ($26)
12. Alex Rios 714 ($26)

The $26 WAS his 5x5 value. Take away 52 or 104 points and he drops to the $20 and $16 range.

5xSB and 6xHR gives the best correlation between points and $values. Based on Greg's desire to have them match, those (in my not so humble opinion) are best.

[DOUGHBOYS]

coefficients myopically

Co,coeff,coeffie
I don't know what that means.
It makes as much sense to me as 'humble opinions'
Just once I'd like to see somebody say, 'In my I don't give a rat's ass opinion of your opinion....'
In my I don't give a rat's ass opinion of your opinion, that would just be more fun.