Draft Prep List

Money
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by Money » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:20 pm

Bama wrote:Still sounds like it going to hrs and hrs of editing to match our list but I guess we'll see some time next year. The Adp was a suggestion to have A Usable start point that wouldn't take Hrs and hrs of editing but Forgive me for not wanting to waste every fucking free hour I got to make a useful list for an online draft.
The Champ is a little testy this pre drafting season! The pressure to repeat? What great pressure to have!!

If I were you I'd want everything exactly the same as it was last season :D
Joe

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Bama
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by Bama » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:27 pm

Naw, just something that has been needing a lot of improvement for years but I guess we'll never get it so ill just shut up about it.

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ALL-IN JD
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by ALL-IN JD » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:29 pm

Give him a box of tissues!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Deadheadz
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by Deadheadz » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:52 pm

ALL-IN JD wrote:Give him a box of tissues!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Image
The Bill Buckner of FAAB
Deadheadz

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American Pickers
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by American Pickers » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:16 pm

Glenneration X wrote:I do understand the request for the Draft Prep tool to organize the players into positions. This seems like a fair request. ADP, not so much.
Can someone please explain to me why it would be unfair for the Draft Prep tool to have an option that could be set to a current ADP list? It isn’t like the ADP list is some big, dark secret, accessible only to the privileged few. Isn’t ADP information readily available to everyone who has a team, whether they draft live or online?

I have a draft list that is an excel spreadsheet with all of the pertinent information I need, and yes, that list is in ADP order. Because I draft online, I would like the Draft Prep tool to match my excel spreadsheet without having to manually move hundreds of players up and down the list. Where is the unfair advantage? Is moving all of those players up and down the Draft Prep list the price I have to pay for drafting online instead of in a live draft? Apparently so.

Someone in an earlier post suggested that anyone who would want the ability to change the Draft Prep tool to a current ADP list was just being ‘lazy’ and not doing their prep work. Please explain to me what prep work is involved in getting an ADP list—seems to me all you have to do is click on the ADP tab.

Someone in another post suggested that we absolutely could not let the Draft Prep tool default to a current ADP list because it would be another step in leveling the playing field. Isn’t a level playing field a good thing? Don’t the best players win when there is a level playing field?

Greg said, “I don’t think it’s our job to update the (Draft Prep) list with an ADP list, and again, I don’t even think it can be done with drafts already ongoing.” I guess the question I would pose to Greg is this: why does NFBC do an ADP list in the first place? Obviously the ADP list generates buzz that makes the contests more interesting, trying to figure out where players are being drafted, who is moving up and down the list, and who are the value plays relative to draft position. But isn’t the very best use of the ADP list as a tool for drafters? As such, maximizing access to the ADP list for drafters should, I think, be a priority, whether they are participating in live drafts or online drafts.

Anyone who drafts straight from and ADP list is likely not going to win their league. Every draft is different, and players have to adjust on the fly to the ebb and flow of the situation. An ADP list is an excellent source of collective wisdom, but it is only a starting point in developing personal wisdom.

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Gekko
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by Gekko » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:42 pm

Draft interface sorted by adp is like bowling with bumpers. Haha!

DOUGHBOYS
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:53 pm

I'll try.
First...
Why?
Let online drafters work a little bit. Why should ADP be spoon fed to drafters. I mean, man, ADP is shoved down our collective throats just about everywhere, does it have to be on our own draft page in drafts too?
Leave SOMETHING to the imagination! A best case scenario would be if a drafter who wants adp on his draft page to have to set it up himself because that is what HE wants, not what is provided.

Second...
Online drafts are used in the Main Event for an Overall contest. Live drafters have their own means of drafting. Some use computers, some pencil and paper.
At the same time, Online drafters would have NFBC ADP staring then in the face.
It may not be an uneven the playing field, but at the least, it gives that appearance.

Third...
It's not needed. It serves those less informed than those more informed. It would be great if this were Yahoo or a beginners league.
This isn't.
We do our own homework here.
Like said before, if somebody wants their list based on the ADP, let them do it themselves. It will be their job.
Not Greg's or STATS.
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mattjb
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by mattjb » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:14 pm

The issue here (or should be) is not ADP, but having such a clunky way of changing our own rankings. That is changing to align with the changes made for football - that's good news.

What is ridiculous is that a simple thing like players being listed in the wrong positions is still wrong. I work with software and databases and this should have been a 5 minute change and it should be embarrassing you guys.

As for the level playing field I will agree with comments made on the board a little while ago that the two breaks are a big advantage to the live drafters. I appreciate that you want people at the live drafts but that isn't a justifiable reason and neither is the 'it's hard to make sure everyone is back online' - if people have paid $1600 they will be back on time.

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Gekko
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by Gekko » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:27 pm

mattjb wrote:
What is ridiculous is that a simple thing like players being listed in the wrong positions is still wrong. I work with software and databases and this should have been a 5 minute change and it should be embarrassing you guys.
100% agree here. Miggy still listed at 1B on draft board, etc, etc

That doesn't look very good

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American Pickers
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by American Pickers » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:54 pm

DOUGHBOYS wrote:I'll try.
First...
Why?
Let online drafters work a little bit. Why should ADP be spoon fed to drafters. I mean, man, ADP is shoved down our collective throats just about everywhere, does it have to be on our own draft page in drafts too?
Leave SOMETHING to the imagination! A best case scenario would be if a drafter who wants adp on his draft page to have to set it up himself because that is what HE wants, not what is provided.

Second...
Online drafts are used in the Main Event for an Overall contest. Live drafters have their own means of drafting. Some use computers, some pencil and paper.
At the same time, Online drafters would have NFBC ADP staring then in the face.
It may not be an uneven the playing field, but at the least, it gives that appearance.

Third...
It's not needed. It serves those less informed than those more informed. It would be great if this were Yahoo or a beginners league.
This isn't.
We do our own homework here.
Like said before, if somebody wants their list based on the ADP, let them do it themselves. It will be their job.
Not Greg's or STATS.
I'll try, too.

First...
I didn't suggest that everyone's draft prep list would have to be the ADP list. I suggested that defaulting the draft prep list to a current ADP list should be an available option. I set up my draft list as the ADP list not to draft from it, but to draft against it. Having that list in front of me lets me know what the 'herd' is thinking.

Second...
If you think it is an unfair advantage for an online drafter to have an NFBC ADP list staring them in the face during their draft, take a printout of the ADP list with you to your live drafts if that will help you feel like you are competing on a more level playing field.

Third...
I don't agree that having the ADP list on the draft page would only serve those less informed. It would serve me, and I'm pretty informed. And I do my homework.

Money
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by Money » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:02 pm

It's pretty funny that for a number of years that those that talked about ADP on these boards were called Sheep by the old guard. Now each year we have threads devoted to why you're foolish to follow the ADP. As soon as someone suggests it as a default the same folks come forward crying foul.

Hysterical stuff, it doesn't matter. It's about as relevant as entering an event as anonymous.
Joe

DOUGHBOYS
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:04 pm

I don't think it should even be an 'option'.
Like you said, someone can print it out if they want it. Good enough.
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:07 pm

Money wrote:It's pretty funny that for a number of years that those that talked about ADP on these boards were called Sheep by the old guard. Now each year we have threads devoted to why you're foolish to follow the ADP. As soon as someone suggests it as a default the same folks come forward crying foul.

Hysterical stuff, it doesn't matter. It's about as relevant as entering an event as anonymous.
I guess this is referring to me. I'm not crying foul as much as hate the thought that we'd be making the draft page 'Draft 101' for drafters.
To me, there is a certain skill in finding players. To have the draft preset at what previous drafters have done would almost make online drafting not mind-stimulating, but mind-numbing.
Just my take.
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Money
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by Money » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:16 pm

DOUGHBOYS wrote:
Money wrote:It's pretty funny that for a number of years that those that talked about ADP on these boards were called Sheep by the old guard. Now each year we have threads devoted to why you're foolish to follow the ADP. As soon as someone suggests it as a default the same folks come forward crying foul.

Hysterical stuff, it doesn't matter. It's about as relevant as entering an event as anonymous.
I guess this is referring to me. I'm not crying foul as much as hate the thought that we'd be making the draft page 'Draft 101' for drafters.
To me, there is a certain skill in finding players. To have the draft preset at what previous drafters have done would almost make online drafting not mind-stimulating, but mind-numbing.
Just my take.
Not pointed at you at all Dan, probably the message board community as a whole which is dominated wit successful veterans. When Greg developed the initial default list he probably did it trying to emulate the best he could the ADP at that time. If drafts didn't start until today he would use the information he has to develop the best list possible.

I can see it now come next October, players trying to influence Greg on where players belong in the default list. In reality if you give it some thought, it does not matter. Time for another Bud Light.
Joe

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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by BK METS » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:28 pm

For the DC express, I completed the chore of editing the draft prep list to my own set list. It took a while, but in the end, I only had to do that ONCE. The next DC I was in, I used the same Draft Prep list as I used for the DC Express, with a few minor adjustments. I didn't have to start over.

My point is, it isn't a huge chore for EVERY draft. You can use the same list for every draft, once you adjust it once.... and as it appears they will be adding a tool to allow us to import a list, I think the issue will soon be a non-issue.

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Gekko
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by Gekko » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:40 pm

Money wrote:It's pretty funny that for a number of years that those that talked about ADP on these boards were called Sheep by the old guard. Now each year we have threads devoted to why you're foolish to follow the ADP. As soon as someone suggests it as a default the same folks come forward crying foul.

Hysterical stuff, it doesn't matter. It's about as relevant as entering an event as anonymous.
Because it more cases than not, the adp sorted list will provide a better selection than the owner who is crunched for time, on tilt, doesn't know what to do, etc will make

Just like the current nfbc adp is partly a product of how the default rankings were set up by Greg. For example, last year aybar was forgotten about and listed way way way down the list. In some drafts he was totally forgotten about.

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American Pickers
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by American Pickers » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:53 pm

Money wrote:It's pretty funny that for a number of years that those that talked about ADP on these boards were called Sheep by the old guard. Now each year we have threads devoted to why you're foolish to follow the ADP. As soon as someone suggests it as a default the same folks come forward crying foul.

Hysterical stuff, it doesn't matter. It's about as relevant as entering an event as anonymous.
I completely agree, just hilarious! I actually thought my initial request to have the option for an ADP default for the Draft Prep list was pretty tame and more than reasonable, given the alternative is that I have to manually move 400 player names up and down a draft list.

I can't believe how many really good players in these games are up in arms about making the ADP list a little more 'accessible' to all. I mean, if you are a really good player, and you like your draft list better than the ADP list, why should you give a crap what list other players are using? Would it mean that some players might make a few incrementally better draft picks? Probably. But anyone who uses an ADP list to the letter to draft a team is not going to come out of the draft with a balanced lineup. Also, I have to believe that anyone who would pay the necessary $$$$ to play in these leagues has to at least have a bit of a clue of what they are doing, right? To suggest that these players would be 'lost' without the ADP list 'crutch' is a little over the top. And every single player who has teams in the games has access to the ADP list anyway.

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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:58 pm

American Pickers wrote:
Money wrote:It's pretty funny that for a number of years that those that talked about ADP on these boards were called Sheep by the old guard. Now each year we have threads devoted to why you're foolish to follow the ADP. As soon as someone suggests it as a default the same folks come forward crying foul.

Hysterical stuff, it doesn't matter. It's about as relevant as entering an event as anonymous.
I completely agree, just hilarious! I actually thought my initial request to have the option for an ADP default for the Draft Prep list was pretty tame and more than reasonable, given the alternative is that I have to manually move 400 player names up and down a draft list.

I can't believe how many really good players in these games are up in arms about making the ADP list a little more 'accessible' to all. I mean, if you are a really good player, and you like your draft list better than the ADP list, why should you give a crap what list other players are using? Would it mean that some players might make a few incrementally better draft picks? Probably. But anyone who uses an ADP list to the letter to draft a team is not going to come out of the draft with a balanced lineup. Also, I have to believe that anyone who would pay the necessary $$$$ to play in these leagues has to at least have a bit of a clue of what they are doing, right? To suggest that these players would be 'lost' without the ADP list 'crutch' is a little over the top. And every single player who has teams in the games has access to the ADP list anyway.
Blowing it out of proportion much?
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Gekko
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by Gekko » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:59 pm

Greg said it ain't happening. Long live no adp interfaces!!!! Bang!!!

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Glenneration X
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by Glenneration X » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:02 pm

Gekko wrote:
mattjb wrote:
What is ridiculous is that a simple thing like players being listed in the wrong positions is still wrong. I work with software and databases and this should have been a 5 minute change and it should be embarrassing you guys.
100% agree here. Miggy still listed at 1B on draft board, etc, etc

That doesn't look very good
I agree that there's no reason for this.

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ALL-IN JD
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by ALL-IN JD » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:04 pm

I think we should get MTM to run this up the food chain!! :D :D

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Glenneration X
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by Glenneration X » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:08 pm

American Pickers wrote:I can't believe how many really good players in these games are up in arms about making the ADP list a little more 'accessible' to all.
Every really good player is really good because they are willing to work at this game and work harder than the next guy.

By the way, anyone who thinks it's "harder" or a more difficult environment to draft online than live has never drafted live. Yet most of the "really good players" still try to draft live when possible. Imagine that.

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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by mattjb » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:09 pm

Glenneration X wrote:
American Pickers wrote:I can't believe how many really good players in these games are up in arms about making the ADP list a little more 'accessible' to all.
Every really good player is really good because they are willing to work at this game and work harder than the next guy.

By the way, anyone who thinks it's "harder" or a more difficult environment to draft online than live has never drafted live. Yet most of the "really good players" still try to draft live when possible. Imagine that.
That's fair Glenn but can you give me a plausible argument for not having a 10 minute break in the main event online?

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Gekko
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by Gekko » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:12 pm

mattjb wrote:
Glenneration X wrote:
American Pickers wrote:I can't believe how many really good players in these games are up in arms about making the ADP list a little more 'accessible' to all.
Every really good player is really good because they are willing to work at this game and work harder than the next guy.

By the way, anyone who thinks it's "harder" or a more difficult environment to draft online than live has never drafted live. Yet most of the "really good players" still try to draft live when possible. Imagine that.
That's fair Glenn but can you give me a plausible argument for not having a 10 minute break in the main event online?
If I did an online main event, I would like the same breaks as the live events get

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Gekko
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Re: Draft Prep List

Post by Gekko » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:12 pm

ALL-IN JD wrote:I think we should get MTM to run this up the food chain!! :D :D
Jeff with a good zinger!!!

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