One Pitcher on Friday

[DOUGHBOYS]

I'm a Bauer owner and am fine with the rules "as is". Again, Implementing this will require more time to set lineups. I can't speak for other owners, but If this rule was implemented, I would reduce the number of teams I buy.

Yep, you've said that.

[Gekko]

I don't think I said I was a Bauer owner this year, till now.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I don't think I said I was a Bauer owner this year, till now.

Ha! Got me there.

The less teams argument was made for Friday lineups as well.

[Navel Lint]

I haven't made up my mind 100% yet on this rule change proposal, but I don't think I like it.

My first issue is, "One Pitcher"
If it's a good rule, it's a good rule, and should therefor apply to ALL pitchers. If you cant defend (although maybe you can) applying the rule to across the board, then we shouldn't have it in bits and pieces.

But lets face it, you can't propose ALL pitcher change because that is basically a "streaming" rule, you might not want to call it that or might not even agree, but I think that is how most would utilize it.
Look at this thread, you list pitchers that "missed" a start, when really they didn't miss a start, it just was moved outside of our imaginary world that runs Mon-Sun. Jeff Samardzija isn't "missing" a start, the only reason to replace him in your lineup would be to squeeze an extra start out of another pitcher on your roster.

The other thing I don't like about this proposal is the "possible" unintended consequences it would have on Closers.

You've know the NFBC owners, if there is only one thing that 90% plus of us would agree on, it's our hatred of closers. Yet based on my personal past horribly bad experience with FAAB/Streaming of Starting Pitchers, that is how I might use my "change one pitcher" slot. I think we would see many more teams draft 3 closers, utilizing 2 M-R and dropping a third into the lineup F-S.
I understand that there are huge trade-offs in doing that, but I'm just saying it will effect the game.
( To counter my own argument, we actually may see end-of-season Save totals go down as some teams will employ "hidden" streaming by adding an extra M-R Starter and then dropping their Closer in on F-S)


As I said first off, I haven't made up my mind 100% on this rule and maybe during the summer I will read something that will change my mind, but for right now, I'm a no.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I haven't made up my mind 100% yet on this rule change proposal, but I don't think I like it.

My first issue is, "One Pitcher"
If it's a good rule, it's a good rule, and should therefor apply to ALL pitchers. If you cant defend (although maybe you can) applying the rule to across the board, then we shouldn't have it in bits and pieces.

But lets face it, you can't propose ALL pitcher change because that is basically a "streaming" rule, you might not want to call it that or might not even agree, but I think that is how most would utilize it.
Look at this thread, you list pitchers that "missed" a start, when really they didn't miss a start, it just was moved outside of our imaginary world that runs Mon-Sun. Jeff Samardzija isn't "missing" a start, the only reason to replace him in your lineup would be to squeeze an extra start out of another pitcher on your roster.

The other thing I don't like about this proposal is the "possible" unintended consequences it would have on Closers.

You've know the NFBC owners, if there is only one thing that 90% plus of us would agree on, it's our hatred of closers. Yet based on my personal past horribly bad experience with FAAB/Streaming of Starting Pitchers, that is how I might use my "change one pitcher" slot. I think we would see many more teams draft 3 closers, utilizing 2 M-R and dropping a third into the lineup F-S.
I understand that there are huge trade-offs in doing that, but I'm just saying it will effect the game.
( To counter my own argument, we actually may see end-of-season Save totals go down as some teams will employ "hidden" streaming by adding an extra M-R Starter and then dropping their Closer in on F-S)


As I said first off, I haven't made up my mind 100% on this rule and maybe during the summer I will read something that will change my mind, but for right now, I'm a no.

Great post, Russ.
You seemed to be arguing with yourself.

We can't have all pitchers be eligible on Friday. It would just be a streaming nightmare. We had a taste of that during the end of a season before, and few liked it.
To degree, we all stream already. Two start pitchers will get priority over one start pitchers. A two start pitcher on FAAB goes for more money than a one start pitcher, and then we stream him into the lineup.
The message is that a little streaming is ok, alot is not.

The one pitcher rule would allow for us to use a Starter/Closer/middle reliever. Personally, I don't see a big advantage in three Closers, more so than there is now. We never have a clue when a Closer or middle reliever will enter a game. So, they may get 0 stats over a weekend while a Starter who is inserted into the lineup would.
And numerically, only so many teams could have three Closers. And as you know, the drafting of three Closers, at the rate they go down, may be a service to the rest of the teams in that league.

It's not a rule change to be taken lightly. This is the second year I've banged the drum for it. It took a lot longer than that after I started banging the drum for Friday lineups.
With injuries increasing, I feel we need a degree more control over our teams. The one pitcher rule gives us that.
It won't work for everybody. Mark has already voiced concerns about time. And I get that.
I don't expect NFBC participants to immediately take to the rule.
It'll have to grow on folks
But, like Friday lineups, I feel it would ultimately be a good change for the NFBC.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Add Kyle Gibson and Zack Greinke to the list....

[DOUGHBOYS]

And Matt Cain...

[Navel Lint]

I must be misunderstanding the point now

Gibson and Greinke are not missing starts. Between this week and next week they will both get three starts. By listing them here and suggesting that you would now want to replace them over the weekend because they won't pitch Sunday is saying nothing more to me than you want to "stream-in" an extra start or stats out of another pitcher.
You might want to make the case that Gibson was Only in your lineup Because he had Two starts, but I don't think you can make that claim with Greinke.

As for listing Cain, he was only going to make one start this week anyway. The fact that he missed that start on Tues would have nothing to do with his prior placement in your lineup on Monday and is no different than having Garza in your lineup for today
Yes, he missed that start, but to replace him on the weekend would just be another example of "streaming" pitcher stats (Starters or Closers). Whether he did or did not pitch on Tues would no longer be relevant.

I'm not trying to knock down your idea, I could still be open to it, but I also think that if you want to track pitchers that fall into a category wherein your team was negatively effected by injury/rain/whatever, you have to give an honest accounting.......I don't believe Greinke or Cain qualify

[DOUGHBOYS]

I must be misunderstanding the point now

Gibson and Greinke are not missing starts. Between this week and next week they will both get three starts. By listing them here and suggesting that you would now want to replace them over the weekend because they won't pitch Sunday is saying nothing more to me than you want to "stream-in" an extra start or stats out of another pitcher.
You might want to make the case that Gibson was Only in your lineup Because he had Two starts, but I don't think you can make that claim with Greinke.

As for listing Cain, he was only going to make one start this week anyway. The fact that he missed that start on Tues would have nothing to do with his prior placement in your lineup on Monday and is no different than having Garza in your lineup for today
Yes, he missed that start, but to replace him on the weekend would just be another example of "streaming" pitcher stats (Starters or Closers). Whether he did or did not pitch on Tues would no longer be relevant.

I'm not trying to knock down your idea, I could still be open to it, but I also think that if you want to track pitchers that fall into a category wherein your team was negatively effected by injury/rain/whatever, you have to give an honest accounting.......I don't believe Greinke or Cain qualify

Your right. I got off track and just started listing every pitcher missing a start.
This rule would be perfect for Pittsbugh/Baltimore owners. If rained out again tomorrow, both staffs will only throw 3 starters for the whole week.
Now, Sea/NYY has also been postponed.

We say that we won't get these starts this week, but get them next week or the week after.
Not always true.
Pitchers get hurt or sent down or we drop them for a pitcher from another team.

[DOUGHBOYS]

One more item about this....
Let's say (just out of the blue ) that a fantasy player really liked the match-ups for Kyle Kendrick during the coming week.
With his postponement today, his match-ups become less favorable. Beginning with not starting against the Mets on Wednesday, but the Reds on Friday.
If having a better option, I...er..I mean a fantasy owner could bench Kendrick and opt for another pitcher on his bench instead.
The way it is now, we strategize for one team, but our pitcher is possibly doomed to face another and we have no recourse.

[Navel Lint]

I must be misunderstanding the point now

Gibson and Greinke are not missing starts. Between this week and next week they will both get three starts. By listing them here and suggesting that you would now want to replace them over the weekend because they won't pitch Sunday is saying nothing more to me than you want to "stream-in" an extra start or stats out of another pitcher.
You might want to make the case that Gibson was Only in your lineup Because he had Two starts, but I don't think you can make that claim with Greinke.

As for listing Cain, he was only going to make one start this week anyway. The fact that he missed that start on Tues would have nothing to do with his prior placement in your lineup on Monday and is no different than having Garza in your lineup for today
Yes, he missed that start, but to replace him on the weekend would just be another example of "streaming" pitcher stats (Starters or Closers). Whether he did or did not pitch on Tues would no longer be relevant.

I'm not trying to knock down your idea, I could still be open to it, but I also think that if you want to track pitchers that fall into a category wherein your team was negatively effected by injury/rain/whatever, you have to give an honest accounting.......I don't believe Greinke or Cain qualify

..........

We say that we won't get these starts this week, but get them next week or the week after.
Not always true.
Pitchers get hurt or sent down or we drop them for a pitcher from another team.

Well sure, you are right, and we can say this about any player. In fact, I don't remember all the details, but I would think we used a similar argument about hitters and that is why we have "All Hitter" replacement on Friday.

Like I posted previously, this is one of the issues I do have with your proposal. If it's a good rule, it should be good for all nine pitchers, not just one.

[Navel Lint]

One more item about this....
Let's say (just out of the blue ) that a fantasy player really liked the match-ups for Kyle Kendrick during the coming week.
With his postponement today, his match-ups become less favorable. Beginning with not starting against the Mets on Wednesday, but the Reds on Friday.
If having a better option, I...er..I mean a fantasy owner could bench Kendrick and opt for another pitcher on his bench instead.
The way it is now, we strategize for one team, but our pitcher is possibly doomed to face another and we have no recourse.

And I agree, Kendrick would qualify for this list

[DOUGHBOYS]

All pitchers would change things too much.
Pitching would dominate benches. Streaming would become the norm, not just a thought.
The number of innings thrown would raise exponentially.
It would become something that few would enjoy.

One pitcher would be a large enough change. A little like going from a pitcher hitting ninth to a dh.
The difference is felt, but it's not an onslaught.
It gives us more control without wholesale changes that all pitchers would bring.

[Gekko]

I must be misunderstanding the point now

Gibson and Greinke are not missing starts.

I also think that if you want to track pitchers that fall into a category wherein your team was negatively effected by injury/rain/whatever, you have to give an honest accounting.......I don't believe Greinke or Cain qualify

Honest accounting?? Why have that? The government feeds us false info, and sheep eat that up. Why not here?

[Outlaw]

I must be misunderstanding the point now

Gibson and Greinke are not missing starts.

I also think that if you want to track pitchers that fall into a category wherein your team was negatively effected by injury/rain/whatever, you have to give an honest accounting.......I don't believe Greinke or Cain qualify

Honest accounting?? Why have that? The government feeds us false info, and sheep eat that up. Why not here?

zerohedge.com for the sheepie

[DOUGHBOYS]

With all the rainouts this week, strike Greinke and Cain, but add boatloads from all the postponed-effected teams.

[joshguy]

I think it got changed, then back again? Are you proposing only taking out pitchers who haven't pitched Monday through Thursday? Or anyone's spot can be changed, regardless of playing?

[DOUGHBOYS]

I give.
I can't keep up with all the pitchers missing turns now.
No more swaying. Either we are for this new rule or against it.

[Navel Lint]

I must be misunderstanding the point now

Gibson and Greinke are not missing starts. Between this week and next week they will both get three starts. By listing them here and suggesting that you would now want to replace them over the weekend because they won't pitch Sunday is saying nothing more to me than you want to "stream-in" an extra start or stats out of another pitcher.
You might want to make the case that Gibson was Only in your lineup Because he had Two starts, but I don't think you can make that claim with Greinke.

As for listing Cain, he was only going to make one start this week anyway. The fact that he missed that start on Tues would have nothing to do with his prior placement in your lineup on Monday and is no different than having Garza in your lineup for today
Yes, he missed that start, but to replace him on the weekend would just be another example of "streaming" pitcher stats (Starters or Closers). Whether he did or did not pitch on Tues would no longer be relevant.

I'm not trying to knock down your idea, I could still be open to it, but I also think that if you want to track pitchers that fall into a category wherein your team was negatively effected by injury/rain/whatever, you have to give an honest accounting.......I don't believe Greinke or Cain qualify

We say that we won't get these starts this week, but get them next week or the week after.
Not always true.
Pitchers get hurt or sent down or we drop them for a pitcher from another team.

I forgot to get back to this, but you were right , Cain did end up missing that first start the next week, I think he made the second start, although I think his owners would have been just as happy if he'd have missed it

[DOUGHBOYS]

I think it got changed, then back again? Are you proposing only taking out pitchers who haven't pitched Monday through Thursday? Or anyone's spot can be changed, regardless of playing?

Sorry Josh, I didn't see this question till re-reading the thread.
I am proposing that we can use any pitcher on our bench to replace any pitcher that we had in our lineup Mon-Thurs.
Limiting it to pitchers that haven't thrown Mon-Thurs does not help folks much. It would also limit those that make lineups before Friday, not knowing whether a pitcher is throwing or not. A pitcher eligible on Wednesday, may not be eligible on Thursday. This takes away all question.

[Captain Hook]

I think it got changed, then back again? Are you proposing only taking out pitchers who haven't pitched Monday through Thursday? Or anyone's spot can be changed, regardless of playing?

Sorry Josh, I didn't see this question till re-reading the thread.
I am proposing that we can use any pitcher on our bench to replace any pitcher that we had in our lineup Mon-Thurs.
Limiting it to pitchers that haven't thrown Mon-Thurs does not help folks much. It would also limit those that make lineups before Friday, not knowing whether a pitcher is throwing or not. A pitcher eligible on Wednesday, may not be eligible on Thursday. This takes away all question.

Dan I would make one exception to what you are proposing - you CAN'T put in a bench pitcher for the weekend to replace a pitcher in your lineup who WAS on the DL before the Monday deadline - that is just gaming the system.

[DOUGHBOYS]

There cannot be any exceptions, Perry.
This has to be a simple process.
If making exceptions, it makes it more convoluted for new players.
The dl list is fire. Exactly when, a player is/was put on the dl becomes a problem. In September, most MLB teams do not even use the dl list.
With this rule change, it is better to keep it simple and far away from any dl lists exceptions.

[Captain Hook]

Dan I will only say plenty of other contests have DL capabilities with no problems for anyone - it can be done technologically.

Players not wanting to do it is one thing.
I would love to see a poll after this season from the registered players not the message board folk to get real numbers on how many would like some relief .... trends say it won't be any better next year

[DOUGHBOYS]

Perry, there is an underlying factor.
Technology is the worst trait of the NFBC.
Not only do I not want to make it hard for new folks and those not in favor of exceptions, it would also be good to as easy on STATS IT as possible.
We've had a dl rule before here, it did not go well.

[G1AZM]

I've spent some time thinking about this and I like it. I believe I may have come up with a solid bullet point to help the cause.

It adds to the depth of the usable player pool bringing middle relievers more into play. Every team could in essence have a MR pitcher on their roster and then use their one pitcher move to roster a weekend starter. For example this week, you replace Bumgarner with Hudson with your move and are able to play Gregerson all week. It would even make the draft more interesting as a player like Betances would now be playable all year and could even be justified as a middle round pick or higher.