Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Tue May 13, 2014 4:09 pm

swampass wrote:I'm getting a real kick out of some of the posters whining on this thread after they called out others for bitching on the injury thread. guess they finally had a rock thrown through their window.
Whining?
What thread were you reading?
I thought of this thread as a good-spirited debate. If thinking I was whining, fine. But I never thought of any of the replies to me as whining.
No fantasy teams were mentioned as far as I know.
Is it whining to say I'll miss the best pitcher in baseball this year? If so, guilty.
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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Tue May 13, 2014 4:11 pm

headhunters wrote:dough- if that were today's braves marichal would have had the greatest line in fantasy history. a win 0 era about a .300 whip and about 160 k's. "marichal fans 160 braves- the uptons batting 1st and 2nd k 80 times!"
Sooo right, Mike!
Most pitchers think they can 'relax' at the bottom of lineups. With the Braves, they relax at the top :D
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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Tue May 13, 2014 4:22 pm

DOUGHBOYS wrote:
swampass wrote:I'm getting a real kick out of some of the posters whining on this thread after they called out others for bitching on the injury thread. guess they finally had a rock thrown through their window.
Whining?
What thread were you reading?
I thought of this thread as a good-spirited debate. If thinking I was whining, fine. But I never thought of any of the replies to me as whining.
No fantasy teams were mentioned as far as I know.
Is it whining to say I'll miss the best pitcher in baseball this year? If so, guilty.
Since this was brought up, I'll tell you my reaction to Fernandez injury from a fantasy perspective.
I think it is the best kind of injury to have from a great player. It may sound 'silver linerish', but let me explain.

Before leaving fantasy teams, Fernandez gave fantasy goodness. He was among the league leaders in every stat.
Some stars that are hurt do not do this. If Carlos Santana were to be lost for the rest of the season, he will have killed his owners.
Not only does the bastard get hurt, but he stink up the joint before he leaves!
Fernandez saved us from that.

Fernandez will also be dropped from fantasy teams. He won't be lingering on our benches like Kipnis or Hamilton or Braun as constant reminders of their fantasy impotence.
Fernandez will be replaced with albeit, a lesser Starter, but he can be replaced on our rosters, while the lingerers take up a bench spot.
Fernandez, if having to have an injury, is the best case scenario....save for it happening in September :D
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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by Outlaw » Tue May 13, 2014 4:26 pm

Rainiers wrote:Outlaw,

You mention 250-550 Ip of "professional" basball in your research. What about Carlos Rondon? Doesn't his IPs at NC State contribute to wear and tear on his arm? Or pitches thrown in high school for that matter?

Where and when, and more importantly, why do you draw the starting line where you do as far as inning counting?
MLB 's Data over the past 4 seasons is only complete for Professional innings. They are attempting to develop IP/pitch tracking to be rolled out down to colleges and HS, using a national tracking database. Right now Teams manually attempt to get accurate data from Colleges and High schools are hit and miss. MLB estimates the IP's for pitchers age 10-18 and they usually can add the college IPS pretty accurately. One of the biggest things they are tracking is speed numbers, as much info as they can get, no matter the age. They are also analyzing the impact of or lack of lower body training. Pitchers who don't work the lower body like they should, seem to be at greater risk. Its just not pitchers and arm injures, its all injuries, Obliques, Hammys, knees, muscle injuries, etc. too.

As an example, Teixera was held out last night. He appeared to have a rough time the night before running, calf/hammy related I would guess. At the end of that Game, The Yankees , training staff and the people who actually work on this new medical program for and with the ynakees on behalf of MLB, collected all the data on Tex. He would answer a few questions, the trainers give their input and then that data is then fed to MLB. So even he didn't go on the DL, they had enough on him to hold him out the following game. although it shows up nowhere he has an injury, MLB tracks it as an injury. Every player is reviewed after every game and they focus on players who get banged up or its obvious something is going on. They have started to roll out the same program to minor leagues too, especially the definitive injuries. So by the time they get a player into the majors they will have a complete injury list of that player, most of which never even get reported in the press.

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by KJ Duke » Tue May 13, 2014 4:42 pm

DOUGHBOYS wrote:
Before leaving fantasy teams, Fernandez gave fantasy goodness. He was among the league leaders in every stat.


Could have done without the 5 ER in his last inning, of course. :|

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by Outlaw » Tue May 13, 2014 4:51 pm

On a positive note, One pitcher that appears to be at far less risk than other young ones is Ventura from the Royals. Many reasons, but the Royals got him young (I beleive 17), he's approaching 500 Pro innings spread across 5 pro seasons and has never even had a sore arm. Plus he is a fanatic with his lower half workouts, and if anyone watches his mechanics he uses his legs to help generate velocity, drive the ball to the plate, He doesn't torque his upper half and his arm like a lot of other hard throwers do. And he's a small guy to boot. From what i have heard he has the same mechanics since he started pitching, so someone appears to have taught him well.

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Tue May 13, 2014 5:00 pm

Outlaw wrote:On a positive note, One pitcher that appears to be at far less risk than other young ones is Ventura from the Royals. Many reasons, but the Royals got him young (I beleive 17), he's approaching 500 Pro innings spread across 5 pro seasons and has never even had a sore arm. Plus he is a fanatic with his lower half workouts, and if anyone watches his mechanics he uses his legs to help generate velocity, drive the ball to the plate, He doesn't torque his upper half and his arm like a lot of other hard throwers do. And he's a small guy to boot. From what i have heard he has the same mechanics since he started pitching, so someone appears to have taught him well.
Challenge for you, Mike.
You can pick any Starter other than those rumored to have an elbow problem (Martin Perez, etc)
I will take Ace Ventura to have Tommy John quicker than anybody you name.
You take the pitcher of your choice.
You up for that?
A bag of Doritos can be the prize for me. You can name the chip of your choice. :D
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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by KJ Duke » Tue May 13, 2014 5:11 pm

I smell a pool ...

First previously un-injured starting pitcher to have TJ surgery beginning Monday, May 19th, $20 per entry, enter as often as you like. Player must be on an active MLB roster as of Sunday, May 18; if two pitchers have surgery on same day split the pot. Winner-take-all. Any interest? Would be fun to track and we can start our own database of fantasy predictability.

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by TParsons » Tue May 13, 2014 5:36 pm

DOUGHBOYS wrote:
Outlaw wrote:On a positive note, One pitcher that appears to be at far less risk than other young ones is Ventura from the Royals. Many reasons, but the Royals got him young (I beleive 17), he's approaching 500 Pro innings spread across 5 pro seasons and has never even had a sore arm. Plus he is a fanatic with his lower half workouts, and if anyone watches his mechanics he uses his legs to help generate velocity, drive the ball to the plate, He doesn't torque his upper half and his arm like a lot of other hard throwers do. And he's a small guy to boot. From what i have heard he has the same mechanics since he started pitching, so someone appears to have taught him well.
Challenge for you, Mike.
You can pick any Starter other than those rumored to have an elbow problem (Martin Perez, etc)
I will take Ace Ventura to have Tommy John quicker than anybody you name.
You take the pitcher of your choice.
You up for that?
A bag of Doritos can be the prize for me. You can name the chip of your choice. :D
Warning- Unlike Sano and Crawford, Yordano does not throw a nasty slider.

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by Outlaw » Tue May 13, 2014 5:38 pm

DOUGHBOYS wrote:
Outlaw wrote:On a positive note, One pitcher that appears to be at far less risk than other young ones is Ventura from the Royals. Many reasons, but the Royals got him young (I believe 17), he's approaching 500 Pro innings spread across 5 pro seasons and has never even had a sore arm. Plus he is a fanatic with his lower half workouts, and if anyone watches his mechanics he uses his legs to help generate velocity, drive the ball to the plate, He doesn't torque his upper half and his arm like a lot of other hard throwers do. And he's a small guy to boot. From what i have heard he has the same mechanics since he started pitching, so someone appears to have taught him well.
Challenge for you, Mike.
You can pick any Starter other than those rumored to have an elbow problem (Martin Perez, etc)
I will take Ace Ventura to have Tommy John quicker than anybody you name.
You take the pitcher of your choice.
You up for that?
A bag of Doritos can be the prize for me. You can name the chip of your choice. :D
I'll pass Dan... Not into hoping someone gets injured, even if just for a bag of Doritos's. Funny how you took think Ave Ventura will be next one...

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by Navel Lint » Tue May 13, 2014 5:40 pm

KJ Duke wrote:I smell a pool ...

First previously un-injured starting pitcher.................
Depending on your definition of injured, you're down to about 12 pitchers :lol:
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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by TParsons » Tue May 13, 2014 5:44 pm

Outlaw wrote: I'll pass Dan... Not into hoping someone gets injured, even if just for a bag of Doritos's. Funny how you took think Ave Ventura will be next one...
Judging from his previous posts, I'm not sure Dan is betting on Ventura to "be the next one," but rather he is betting against your "ability" to predict which player will/will not be next.

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by Navel Lint » Tue May 13, 2014 5:56 pm

DOUGHBOYS wrote:
Outlaw wrote:On a positive note, One pitcher that appears to be at far less risk than other young ones is Ventura from the Royals. Many reasons, but the Royals got him young (I beleive 17), he's approaching 500 Pro innings spread across 5 pro seasons and has never even had a sore arm. Plus he is a fanatic with his lower half workouts, and if anyone watches his mechanics he uses his legs to help generate velocity, drive the ball to the plate, He doesn't torque his upper half and his arm like a lot of other hard throwers do. And he's a small guy to boot. From what i have heard he has the same mechanics since he started pitching, so someone appears to have taught him well.
Challenge for you, Mike.
You can pick any Starter other than those rumored to have an elbow problem (Martin Perez, etc)
I will take Ace Ventura to have Tommy John quicker than anybody you name.
You take the pitcher of your choice.
You up for that?
A bag of Doritos can be the prize for me. You can name the chip of your choice. :D
I wouldn't want to win a bet because of a player injury, but if I really had to pick the next pitcher to injure his arm, I would go with Jarred Cosart.

To my eye, the guy has a terrible motion. He doesn't use his lower body at all, it's almost all arm with him. It almost looks like he is flicking the ball toward the plate.

On the other hand and more to Dan's point, I think it's really hard to predict the next TJS guy. The variables seem to be all over the board. :?
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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by Outlaw » Tue May 13, 2014 6:05 pm

TParsons wrote:
Outlaw wrote: I'll pass Dan... Not into hoping someone gets injured, even if just for a bag of Doritos's. Funny how you took think Ave Ventura will be next one...
Judging from his previous posts, I'm not sure Dan is betting on Ventura to "be the next one," but rather he is betting against your "ability" to predict which player will/will not be next.
Amazing how it some think I'm predicting. I learned one thing on here about this subject, I will not be saying one way or the other when the next ones occur whether they were on my list or not. People jumped all over the after the fact point i made about Fernandez, so, Like the rest of you, we can just guess who it will be.

All I have been saying is that MLB knows they have an escalating problem (11-13% on avg., year over year, 5 years in row and its not just the injures we hear about through the press or public sources- there are many we never hear about) with injuries, that last year cost them over a Billion Dollars in salaries for injured players at the MLB level. That's about 12% of their annual revenue... That's an awful lot of motivation to find out why and attempt to reverse the trend. Until they do though, anyone of us who likes/plays fantasy better become better "predictors" of players who could, might, will get injured. I looked at the standings in some of the events and some of the top teams will be scrambling to replace Fernandez.

the Mets and Yankees are poster child's for how injuries are affecting their bottom lines. The Yankees cause they spend foolishly, the Mets, Well just bad luck and also some foolishness, like Colon, bottom line both teams attendance and other revenues are down and costs are way up. How many will be watching the Yankees if they are 10 games out in July, not many. , let alone going to the games. Oh and Wheeler is at 60 pitches still in the 2nd inning.

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by TParsons » Tue May 13, 2014 6:06 pm

Outlaw wrote:On a positive note, One pitcher that appears to be at far less risk than other young ones is Ventura from the Royals. Many reasons, but the Royals got him young (I beleive 17), he's approaching 500 Pro innings spread across 5 pro seasons and has never even had a sore arm. Plus he is a fanatic with his lower half workouts, and if anyone watches his mechanics he uses his legs to help generate velocity, drive the ball to the plate, He doesn't torque his upper half and his arm like a lot of other hard throwers do. And he's a small guy to boot. From what i have heard he has the same mechanics since he started pitching, so someone appears to have taught him well.
I'm interested in your hypotheses regarding 500 pro innings being a key factor especially as it relates to the quote below that Hook provided from Dr. Andrews. He seems to think it's overuse at a young age- even before the age 17 that you consider young. Do you believe that overuse at an extremely young age prior to pro ball is less important, or do you just believe that contributes to the end result of TJS? Do you feel as though those 500 pro innings are the key contributor to the injury, or are you only using that as a baseline for measuring risk of future injury (ie- players in the 300-500 Pro IP range are high risk, players above 500 pro IP are lower risk, etc.)?

Captain Hook wrote:I know the MLB Network Roundtable show has been mentioned earlier - as of now there are no further showings but I will get a note if they do decide to run it again and will pass it on. Since they are not going to run the show again I will probably do a longer article about it at Mastersball but I thought some of you would be interested in Dr. James Andrews - this one quote about what causes elbow injuries ....

“The basic thing that parents out there and coaches and players alike need to know is if you throw with fatigue at a young age – in high school, for example, or youth baseball – you have a 36-to-1 chance of injuring your shoulder or elbow. … Fatigue could be event fatigue, seasonal fatigue or year-round fatigue, so it’s a big problem.”

“What we really found out is that [high school patients] only had one week off each year from competitive baseball and that one week was – you could guess what – between Christmas and New Year’s. So they’re playing year-round baseball - that’s the number one risk factor in youth baseball.”

“If you take a coat hanger and you bend it enough times, what happens? It breaks clean, and then of course that injury didn’t begin with that last bend, it began with all of those multiple, multiple bends. It’s a developmental ligament and the stress that it will take is only about 80-miles per hour, so our high-velocity throwers in high school – unless they’ve got great genetics - are really suspect to really injure their ligament along the way.”

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by TParsons » Tue May 13, 2014 6:12 pm

Outlaw wrote:
TParsons wrote:
Outlaw wrote: I'll pass Dan... Not into hoping someone gets injured, even if just for a bag of Doritos's. Funny how you took think Ave Ventura will be next one...
Judging from his previous posts, I'm not sure Dan is betting on Ventura to "be the next one," but rather he is betting against your "ability" to predict which player will/will not be next.
Amazing how it some think I'm predicting. I learned one thing on here about this subject, I will not be saying one way or the other when the next ones occur whether they were on my list or not. People jumped all over the after the fact point i made about Fernandez, so, Like the rest of you, we can just guess who it will be.
Well, you did say, "On a positive note, One pitcher that appears to be at far less risk than other young ones is Ventura from the Royals." That looks about as close to a prediction as you can get without just outright stating, "Ventura will not need TJS."

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Tue May 13, 2014 6:16 pm

Outlaw wrote:
TParsons wrote:
Outlaw wrote: I'll pass Dan... Not into hoping someone gets injured, even if just for a bag of Doritos's. Funny how you took think Ave Ventura will be next one...
Judging from his previous posts, I'm not sure Dan is betting on Ventura to "be the next one," but rather he is betting against your "ability" to predict which player will/will not be next.
Amazing how it some think I'm predicting. I learned one thing on here about this subject, I will not be saying one way or the other when the next ones occur whether they were on my list or not. People jumped all over the after the fact point i made about Fernandez, so, Like the rest of you, we can just guess who it will be.

All I have been saying is that MLB knows they have an escalating problem (11-13% on avg., year over year, 5 years in row and its not just the injures we hear about through the press or public sources- there are many we never hear about) with injuries, that last year cost them over a Billion Dollars in salaries for injured players at the MLB level. That's about 12% of their annual revenue... That's an awful lot of motivation to find out why and attempt to reverse the trend. Until they do though, anyone of us who likes/plays fantasy better become better "predictors" of players who could, might, will get injured. I looked at the standings in some of the events and some of the top teams will be scrambling to replace Fernandez.

the Mets and Yankees are poster child's for how injuries are affecting their bottom lines. The Yankees cause they spend foolishly, the Mets, Well just bad luck and also some foolishness, like Colon, bottom line both teams attendance and other revenues are down and costs are way up. How many will be watching the Yankees if they are 10 games out in July, not many. , let alone going to the games. Oh and Wheeler is at 60 pitches still in the 2nd inning.
Not picking on you, Mike, I just happen to disagree with just about everything you say on the subject :D
Tommy John is bad for baseball. And although it makes great talk show fodder, not to mention Message Board fodder :D I really don't think Major League Baseball is doing much in how to avoid it.
The innings seemingly get shorter for these pitchers and Tommy John seems to grow.
I don't think that the problem will either be fixed or even slowed during the coming few years.

What I do believe is that stem cell research or medicine will come into play making the recovery period shorter for those undergoing the procedure. Medicine created Tommy John surgery. I believe that medicine will also make it not as cumbersome or lengthy for those afflicted.
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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by Outlaw » Tue May 13, 2014 6:26 pm

[/quote]

Not picking on you, Mike, I just happen to disagree with just about everything you say on the subject :D
Tommy John is bad for baseball. And although it makes great talk show fodder, not to mention Message Board fodder :D I really don't think Major League Baseball is doing much in how to avoid it.
The innings seemingly get shorter for these pitchers and Tommy John seems to grow.
I don't think that the problem will either be fixed or even slowed during the coming few years.

What I do believe is that stem cell research or medicine will come into play making the recovery period shorter for those undergoing the procedure. Medicine created Tommy John surgery. I believe that medicine will also make it not as cumbersome or lengthy for those afflicted.[/quote]

No worries, We all look at things differently... You said it yourself "The innings seemingly get shorter for these pitchers and Tommy John seems to grow" So the root Causes are?

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by Gekko » Tue May 13, 2014 6:28 pm

Outlaw wrote:
DOUGHBOYS wrote:
Outlaw wrote:On a positive note, One pitcher that appears to be at far less risk than other young ones is Ventura from the Royals. Many reasons, but the Royals got him young (I believe 17), he's approaching 500 Pro innings spread across 5 pro seasons and has never even had a sore arm. Plus he is a fanatic with his lower half workouts, and if anyone watches his mechanics he uses his legs to help generate velocity, drive the ball to the plate, He doesn't torque his upper half and his arm like a lot of other hard throwers do. And he's a small guy to boot. From what i have heard he has the same mechanics since he started pitching, so someone appears to have taught him well.
Challenge for you, Mike.
You can pick any Starter other than those rumored to have an elbow problem (Martin Perez, etc)
I will take Ace Ventura to have Tommy John quicker than anybody you name.
You take the pitcher of your choice.
You up for that?
A bag of Doritos can be the prize for me. You can name the chip of your choice. :D
I'll pass Dan... Not into hoping someone gets injured, even if just for a bag of Doritos's. Funny how you took think Ave Ventura will be next one...
Image :D :lol: :D

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by Gekko » Tue May 13, 2014 6:33 pm

TParsons wrote:
Well, you did say, "On a positive note, One pitcher that appears to be at far less risk than other young ones is Ventura from the Royals." That looks about as close to a prediction as you can get without just outright stating, "Ventura will not need TJS."
people always end up tripping over their lies, ie, false statements :lol:
Outlaw wrote: It's pretty predictable these days with all the Data they have and all the "known" reasons, only question for most pitchers now is when, not IF.

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Tue May 13, 2014 6:39 pm

Outlaw wrote:
Not picking on you, Mike, I just happen to disagree with just about everything you say on the subject :D
Tommy John is bad for baseball. And although it makes great talk show fodder, not to mention Message Board fodder :D I really don't think Major League Baseball is doing much in how to avoid it.
The innings seemingly get shorter for these pitchers and Tommy John seems to grow.
I don't think that the problem will either be fixed or even slowed during the coming few years.

What I do believe is that stem cell research or medicine will come into play making the recovery period shorter for those undergoing the procedure. Medicine created Tommy John surgery. I believe that medicine will also make it not as cumbersome or lengthy for those afflicted.[/quote]

No worries, We all look at things differently... You said it yourself "The innings seemingly get shorter for these pitchers and Tommy John seems to grow" So the root Causes are?[/quote]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I don't think that most will care for my reply.

I believe that Tommy John and other arm injuries rose with the advent of counting pitches. Doctors were wrong in thinking that less repetition would mean less injury. I also believe that in the coddling of these players, agents provided the opposite effect for their million dollar investments.
Now that the process has started, it can't be stopped. Nobody but the most astute will have their kids throw everyday to build up these ligaments. Instead, it will be stop and go hard as it has been. It doesn't work for car engines and it most certainly does not work for the ulnar.
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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by Outlaw » Tue May 13, 2014 6:42 pm

TParsons wrote:
Outlaw wrote:On a positive note, One pitcher that appears to be at far less risk than other young ones is Ventura from the Royals. Many reasons, but the Royals got him young (I beleive 17), he's approaching 500 Pro innings spread across 5 pro seasons and has never even had a sore arm. Plus he is a fanatic with his lower half workouts, and if anyone watches his mechanics he uses his legs to help generate velocity, drive the ball to the plate, He doesn't torque his upper half and his arm like a lot of other hard throwers do. And he's a small guy to boot. From what i have heard he has the same mechanics since he started pitching, so someone appears to have taught him well.
I'm interested in your hypotheses regarding 500 pro innings being a key factor especially as it relates to the quote below that Hook provided from Dr. Andrews. He seems to think it's overuse at a young age- even before the age 17 that you consider young. Do you believe that overuse at an extremely young age prior to pro ball is less important, or do you just believe that contributes to the end result of TJS? Do you feel as though those 500 pro innings are the key contributor to the injury, or are you only using that as a baseline for measuring risk of future injury (ie- players in the 300-500 Pro IP range are high risk, players above 500 pro IP are lower risk, etc.)?

Captain Hook wrote:I know the MLB Network Roundtable show has been mentioned earlier - as of now there are no further showings but I will get a note if they do decide to run it again and will pass it on. Since they are not going to run the show again I will probably do a longer article about it at Mastersball but I thought some of you would be interested in Dr. James Andrews - this one quote about what causes elbow injuries ....

“The basic thing that parents out there and coaches and players alike need to know is if you throw with fatigue at a young age – in high school, for example, or youth baseball – you have a 36-to-1 chance of injuring your shoulder or elbow. … Fatigue could be event fatigue, seasonal fatigue or year-round fatigue, so it’s a big problem.”

“What we really found out is that [high school patients] only had one week off each year from competitive baseball and that one week was – you could guess what – between Christmas and New Year’s. So they’re playing year-round baseball - that’s the number one risk factor in youth baseball.”

“If you take a coat hanger and you bend it enough times, what happens? It breaks clean, and then of course that injury didn’t begin with that last bend, it began with all of those multiple, multiple bends. It’s a developmental ligament and the stress that it will take is only about 80-miles per hour, so our high-velocity throwers in high school – unless they’ve got great genetics - are really suspect to really injure their ligament along the way.”
I do believe overuse at younger age is a major factor, as for Ace Ventura, I have no idea what his under 17 years were like, other than he didn't have the opportunities for travel, showcase, HS Ball like American kids do, so I would guess his use was a lot less than the typical American kid and the Roylas got him young and watched/coached him.

I'll say it again, anyone who thinks these kids aren't doing PEDS, is clueless to the depth of that problem, especially for when a kid gets signaled out as being a stud at 13, doesn't matter what sport. I don't take long to go from 80 to 90MPH if a kid goes on Peds as a 16-17 yr old. But I'll get ripped for saying that too. I was at the California JUCO playoffs last week, spoke to a scout from the Angles, asked him about the current state of PEDS with kids, he said, a lot of the good ones are doing them, without hesitation. He said also said most Teams the past 2 years wont touch a kid if there is a hint of PED use. I said besides the obvious physical signs that come with Ped use what else clues you guys in and he said Bat speed for hitters and MPH for pitchers.

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Outlaw
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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by Outlaw » Tue May 13, 2014 6:44 pm

Gekko wrote:
TParsons wrote:
Well, you did say, "On a positive note, One pitcher that appears to be at far less risk than other young ones is Ventura from the Royals." That looks about as close to a prediction as you can get without just outright stating, "Ventura will not need TJS."
people always end up tripping over their lies, ie, false statements :lol:
Outlaw wrote: It's pretty predictable these days with all the Data they have and all the "known" reasons, only question for most pitchers now is when, not IF.
Are you ever capable of adding anything to a conversation, other than dribble and pictures...lol

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by COZ » Tue May 13, 2014 9:11 pm

Since everyone is so afraid to predict, and since I've already proven my prescience, I AM going to predict the next victims:
In no particular order: Jered Weaver, Craig Kimbrel, Greg Holland, Trevor Rosenthal, Joe Nathan, Matt Cain, & Carlos Martinez. Russell, please note this for my future I-told-you-so post. Who you got?

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"Baseball has it share of myths, things that blur the line between fact & fiction....Abner Doubleday inventing the game, Babe Ruth's Called Shot, Sid Finch's Fastball, the 2017 Astros...Barry Bonds's 762 HR's" -- Tom Verducci

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Re: Jose Fernandez Expected to Go on DL; MRI Scheduled

Post by COZ » Tue May 13, 2014 9:22 pm

Aaaaaand....Chris Sale...duh.

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"Baseball has it share of myths, things that blur the line between fact & fiction....Abner Doubleday inventing the game, Babe Ruth's Called Shot, Sid Finch's Fastball, the 2017 Astros...Barry Bonds's 762 HR's" -- Tom Verducci

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