The Human Factor

[DOUGHBOYS]

Every game ever invented shares one element. The human factor.
Baseball, to me, is a pristine game. It has strategy for every player on the field.
Every position.
Every situation.
Every pitch.

When complaining about a baseball game, we never really complain about the game itself. We complain about the human factor.
Lack of hustle.
Bad umpiring.
An error.

Fantasy baseball is the same. The game itself, is a beautiful thing.
We are piggybacking the game of baseball. We are taking the essence of baseball through its numbers, and transform it into a laptop game for the public.
The game is exquisite.
But, we suffer, like every other game, with the human factor.
Our complaints about the game in the NFBC are no different.
We complain about the lack of technology.
We complain about rule changes or lack thereof.
We complain about slow drafters.

The human factor and complaints listed in baseball, can all effect the final score.
Lack of hustle.
Bad umpiring.
An error.
The human factor and complaints listed in fantasy baseball are annoyances.
Lack of technology, rule changes, and slow drafters are events that we deal with as fantasy players.
We know that none of these things will have little to do with our final score.

Now, there is a thread on the Message Boards that changes this.
At the least, it is unsettling. At most, scary.
That the human factor could/would change final scores.
There was a time a long, long time ago when Gekko ruled these Boards that such a thing may have occurred.
Gekko rubbed a few fantasy Managers the wrong way.
Near the end of one season, he charged that a dormant team had come to life only to try and put up numbers that would allow his team to fall in the standings.
The furor died down, but it never completely left my memory.

Some say, that it is an individual's right to do what he pleases with their own fantasy team.
Some say, that our only task is to finish as high as possible.
Some say, that no matter what, everybody play their team out to the end.
The latter will never happen. People have lives and when falling out of contention, some will let a team go.
So, we are left with those top two alternatives.
And both of those alternatives are part of the 'unwritten' laws of fantasy baseball.

The thread started has everything to do with those alternatives, no matter what happened in that league.
And it effects everybody.
Greg is effected because it may scare off future candidates, willing to shell out big money in a very high stakes league.
The players are effected because, besides the Gekko accusation, there has really been little in the way of foul play in the NFBC.
Future players are effected because they may perceive that this house is not quite in order.

As players on the outside of that league, we have no right to judge who is right or who is wrong.
Hell, we don't even know if there WAS a right or wrong.
As players, we'll take all comments from the thread into account.
It's part of our job as players.
And, the human factor.

[Gekko]

I remember that Dan. The owner wasn't a nice guy. I remember when I saw what he did, I was outraged. I believe the guy moved on from the NFBC (thankfully).

One of the reasons (but not the biggest) I've stayed away from the boards and not gotten into MB battles is to minimize the chances of something like that happening again to me. It's hard enough to win against the great competitors here, but trying to do it if someone(s) has a vendetta against you is difficult.

[BK METS]

I commented on the thread and accusation because I went through all of the data. The moves that were made were moves that I or anyone else could have made. There was nothing suspicious in my mind. They asked for outsiders to take a look and I did. Accusations like this have to be blatent and obvious. I wasn't around with the gekko situation but I see this situation as an upset paranoid owner(s). As an outsider who might want to join a high stakes league like this in the future, I needed to see it for myself. For my own peace of mind, that these 3 particular owners who I have been in many leagues with, that they didn't do something like collude or tank their teams on purpose for whatever reason.. There was nothing there. And then he attacks me like I am somehow part of an "east coast contingent". Very sad to me that this couldn't be worked out privately. But it does give me some clarity on a few things, none of which are collusion by anyone. And knowing the integrity of at least two of the owners in question (i don't know the 3rd very well), I am not shocked that the accusations were unjustified and should never been made in a public forum. Even if something remote had happened, it didn't need to be publicized.

[DOUGHBOYS]

In my mind, there is nothing to be gained by taking sides. Joe and Chad are going to think what they think. The accused know what was in their hearts.
And we, we are all gonna think something.
It is almost like watching a movie. A movie that has the United States being attacked by different methods by outside groups. We leave the theater thinking 'that could happen', but we also are confident that it never will.
Same for us in this matter, it is possible we could feel the way the accusers feel, but we're confident it wouldn't happen.

[King of Queens]

Will you have a post for The Tinfoil Hat Factor?

[BK METS]

In my mind, there is nothing to be gained by taking sides. Joe and Chad are going to think what they think. The accused know what was in their hearts.
And we, we are all gonna think something.
It is almost like watching a movie. A movie that has the United States being attacked by different methods by outside groups. We leave the theater thinking 'that could happen', but we also are confident that it never will.
Same for us in this matter, it is possible we could feel the way the accusers feel, but we're confident it wouldn't happen.

I disagree. When something as huge as an accusation of collusion or something similar, in a league with entry fees of $20,000 each, and 3 very prominent owners being accused, then the accuser looking for outside opinions, that is when someone needs to say something. This isn't a "he said, she said". This is a serious accusation and it is very obvious that this is simply a bitter sore loser, trying to smear these guys (instead of blaming himself) and I wasn't going to sit and watch. They asked, I answered. They didn't like my answer, so be it.

[King of Queens]

Spot on, Alan. Thanks for stating your opinion regarding the "questionable" moves.

[DOUGHBOYS]

In my mind, there is nothing to be gained by taking sides. Joe and Chad are going to think what they think. The accused know what was in their hearts.
And we, we are all gonna think something.
It is almost like watching a movie. A movie that has the United States being attacked by different methods by outside groups. We leave the theater thinking 'that could happen', but we also are confident that it never will.
Same for us in this matter, it is possible we could feel the way the accusers feel, but we're confident it wouldn't happen.

I disagree. When something as huge as an accusation of collusion or something similar, in a league with entry fees of $20,000 each, and 3 very prominent owners being accused, then the accuser looking for outside opinions, that is when someone needs to say something. This isn't a "he said, she said". This is a serious accusation and it is very obvious that this is simply a bitter sore loser, trying to smear these guys (instead of blaming himself) and I wasn't going to sit and watch. They asked, I answered. They didn't like my answer, so be it.

You made my point. You took a side and nothing has changed.
Maybe I'm wrong, but this should be 'huge' only to those involved.
My feelings towards Glenn, Steve, and Glenn, which is utmost respect, has not changed at all.
They were accused of something and answered everything in my estimation.
Case closed for an outsider.

Joe and Chad felt wronged. They took their feelings public.
That in itself, is up to debate in being right or wrong.
They accused and had their accusations answered.
Things will never be the same between Joe and Chad and their league mates.
Had Joe and Chad gone private with their feelings, they possibly would have received three explanations and possibly three "fuck you's" (pardon my French) for what they were thinking.
Being public, they'll probably receive more.

[BK METS]

In my mind, there is nothing to be gained by taking sides. Joe and Chad are going to think what they think. The accused know what was in their hearts.
And we, we are all gonna think something.
It is almost like watching a movie. A movie that has the United States being attacked by different methods by outside groups. We leave the theater thinking 'that could happen', but we also are confident that it never will.
Same for us in this matter, it is possible we could feel the way the accusers feel, but we're confident it wouldn't happen.

I disagree. When something as huge as an accusation of collusion or something similar, in a league with entry fees of $20,000 each, and 3 very prominent owners being accused, then the accuser looking for outside opinions, that is when someone needs to say something. This isn't a "he said, she said". This is a serious accusation and it is very obvious that this is simply a bitter sore loser, trying to smear these guys (instead of blaming himself) and I wasn't going to sit and watch. They asked, I answered. They didn't like my answer, so be it.

You made my point. You took a side and nothing has changed.
Maybe I'm wrong, but this should be 'huge' only to those involved.
My feelings towards Glenn, Steve, and Glenn, which is utmost respect, has not changed at all.
They were accused of something and answered everything in my estimation.
Case closed for an outsider.

Joe and Chad felt wronged. They took their feelings public.
That in itself, is up to debate in being right or wrong.
They accused and had their accusations answered.
Things will never be the same between Joe and Chad and their league mates.
Had Joe and Chad gone private with their feelings, they possibly would have received three explanations and possibly three "fuck you's" (pardon my French) for what they were thinking.
Being public, they'll probably receive more.

Dan, this is huge to everyone, not just the guys involved. I invest a lot of money in these leagues and if there is a question of integrity/collusion of 3 men that I play with in many leagues, then I have to think twice about spending as much as I do. If somehow these guys had done something not right, then this hurts more than just people in this league. In this case, they did nothing wrong.

You are right, they made it public. They wanted to make it a matter of public opinion and in doing so, have to expect a reaction, whether positive or negative. If they handled it privately, then its between them and the other owners but making it public changes everything. They decided to smear 3 guys and their integrity. Not right at all, to them or anyone who plays in these leagues and spend money. I was one of the first to tell them in the initial thread, that they should handle it privately and not on these boards. They decided against that.

[DOUGHBOYS]

It'll fade away for outsiders.....

[Quahogs]

It'll fade away for outsiders.....

It's not the outsiders that fund the higher stakes leagues. Alan nailed it. It's guys like him who have been playing for years, frequenting the MB that are interested in taking another step up in prize money. Now maybe they don't. The TWO public accusations after numerous private discussions helped NO ONE. It was a petty, delusional, scorched earth flame with only the intent to harm. We do have freedom of speech but it's NOT ok to yell fire in a theater.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I can understand why you, Glenn, and Glenn are pissed, Steve.
By 'outsiders', I meant anybody who was not in that league.
It was none of our business. We did not follow standings. Really, we have no clue. An opinion is meaningless.
That some pitchers should have been started, while others were benched means absolutely nothing to those who were not in the league, since we were not in the flow of the league.
This is why it is a little fruitless to have opinions about the accusations, from our perspective.
In my eyes, my respect for you, Glenn, and Glenn have not changed at all.
As lawyers say, everything was asked and answered.

Apparently, since Joe mentioned the bottom of the standings to Greg at football drafts, it leads me to believe that this has been festering for Joe and Chad for a long time.
That, I just don't get.
I really don't pay attention to what other players are doing the first of September. I have enough problems getting my own ship in order.

[King of Queens]

I can understand why you, Glenn, and Glenn are pissed, Steve.
By 'outsiders', I meant anybody who was not in that league.
It was none of our business. We did not follow standings. Really, we have no clue. An opinion is meaningless.
That some pitchers should have been started, while others were benched means absolutely nothing to those who were not in the league, since we were not in the flow of the league.
This is why it is a little fruitless to have opinions about the accusations, from our perspective.
In my eyes, my respect for you, Glenn, and Glenn have not changed at all.
As lawyers say, everything was asked and answered.

Apparently, since Joe mentioned the bottom of the standings to Greg at football drafts, it leads me to believe that this has been festering for Joe and Chad for a long time.
That, I just don't get.
I really don't pay attention to what other players are doing the first of September. I have enough problems getting my own ship in order.

There are two groups of "outsiders" -- those that know us, and those that don't.

We know each other, Dan. Met, shook hands, shared experiences over the years in the NFBC, had agreements and disagreements, competed in leagues together, etc. I know you will take the last two weeks, and eventually toss it in the shredder.

Can you really say for sure what those who DON'T know us will do?

[DOUGHBOYS]

I can understand why you, Glenn, and Glenn are pissed, Steve.
By 'outsiders', I meant anybody who was not in that league.
It was none of our business. We did not follow standings. Really, we have no clue. An opinion is meaningless.
That some pitchers should have been started, while others were benched means absolutely nothing to those who were not in the league, since we were not in the flow of the league.
This is why it is a little fruitless to have opinions about the accusations, from our perspective.
In my eyes, my respect for you, Glenn, and Glenn have not changed at all.
As lawyers say, everything was asked and answered.

Apparently, since Joe mentioned the bottom of the standings to Greg at football drafts, it leads me to believe that this has been festering for Joe and Chad for a long time.
That, I just don't get.
I really don't pay attention to what other players are doing the first of September. I have enough problems getting my own ship in order.

There are two groups of "outsiders" -- those that know us, and those that don't.

We know each other, Dan. Met, shook hands, shared experiences over the years in the NFBC, had agreements and disagreements, competed in leagues together, etc. I know you will take the last two weeks, and eventually toss it in the shredder.

Can you really say for sure what those who DON'T know us will do?

I don't KNOW, but I think that most folks will hold you in the same high regard.
All questions were asked and answered.
I think that will be there take from this.

[Quahogs]

I can only speak for myself but to me the issue is more about the perception of the high stakes platform which Joe has attempted to harm. I don't know if he succeeded but the attempt TWICE is what galls me. He had his answers the whole time.

[DOUGHBOYS]

From a newbie patrolling the Boards point of view, I'm glad it came out twice. I know that for Steve, Glenn, and Glenn, it only intensified the hurt feelings. And Steve is right, it wasn't fair for them to go through two bites of the apple.
But to the newbies, the first thread ended with a few questions.
Both Glenn's have now answered all those questions, even to a newbies satisfaction.
Clean slate.

Steve is right. These high dollar leagues may be hurt by this.
First, those thinking of entering will pause in that numbers COULD be manipulated in a one league format.
A thought that was never an inkling.
BUT, possibly worse, is that they know their actions may be tracked and monitored, and their movements could be called to question, even if innocent.

[Winston's Empire]

From an "Average Guy" type of NFBC player, I have read all of the threads & posts and my opinion hasn't changed at all. The NFBC is the GOLD Standard in Fantasy Sports to me and with guys like Greg & Tom at the helm, I have NEVER feared things wouldn't be managed and/or judged properly.

Deep down, we are all just a bunch of kids still looking at our baseball cards, living our baseball dream through our Fantasy Teams and friendships with like minded guys. To me, Cheating or Collusion in these fantasy games would be the same as Betting on Baseball… A One & Done Offense. Like 99% of the guys on these boards, I wasn't in this league, but I can only imagine all of the emotions at the top of such a large $ league. I have played in leagues with all of the guys involved in this now public discussion and have NEVER felt any of them were anything but gentleman and baseball fans just like me. I haven't read a single thing that has lead me to believe my opinion should change and I truly hope that overtime things truly settle out for all involved.

I also hope anybody new to the NFBC feels as confident as I did 6 years ago when I joined this crazy, fun and high quality thing called the NFBC! Now lets get back to talking about baseball and building Fantasy Teams that have the potential to catch fire like the 2014 KC Royals or 2015 Chicago Cubs!

[whale4evr]

Steve is right. These high dollar leagues may be hurt by this.

Maybe that $20K buy-in is too much for some to handle a down-to-the-wire finish with calm nerves.

[Glenneration X]

I agree with Juprinka, Alan nailed it. As KOQ already has, I would like to thank Alan for speaking up with his thoughts in regards to this issue. Several others have reached out to me privately with support and condemning Joe and Chad's threads, but I do appreciate the public support. I know it must not be an easy thing to speak out on an issue like this publicly. Especially when the response from accusers like Joe "McCarthy" Berg is along the lines of "If you won't admit they're Communists, then you must be a Communist"... or East Coaster.

I also agree with Steve's other point. We have freedom of speech, but with freedom of speech comes responsibility.

What also comes with responsibility is whenever you make yourself a part of a community, any community. You hold a responsibility to the others within the community, to your own standing within the community, and of course to the community itself.

Joe and Chad were not anonymous players. They chose during their time here to make themselves part of this community, being a part of the live events, getting to know others both publicly and privately, participating on the message boards. And they were irresponsible to that community.

They attempted (and possibly succeeded) in damaging the reputations of fellow members of that community by going public with their baseless accusations. They certainly damaged the community itself by casting a cloud over one of its most prestigious and publicized leagues. And whether they realize it or not, I believe they most damaged their own standing within the community, and how they are viewed by that community, with how they went about this whole affair and how paranoia and sour grapes instead of actual evidence triggered it.

Their actions were irresponsible. The repercussions upon the NFBC community still to be sorted out.

[Outlaw]

Doubt and questions are directly proportionate to the money involved. Does not matter if you are a new player or a veteran player. Does anyone really know anyone they communicate for the most part online or meet once a year or every few years.

[KJ Duke]

Doubt and questions are directly proportionate to the money involved. Does not matter if you are a new player or a veteran player.

But Mike, the primary accuser says Money has nothing to do with it ... of course, the guy who claims this goes by "Money" on the message boards, so CLEARLY money is the last thing on his mind.

[Glenneration X]

Doubt and questions are directly proportionate to the money involved. Does not matter if you are a new player or a veteran player. Does anyone really know anyone they communicate for the most part online or meet once a year or every few years.

Mike, I can only speak for myself. This year though I crapped the bed in the Platinum, I was in the running for cash finishes the final week for the Diamond, Ultimate Auction, NYC Super, and MLBC, each where I made a large investment, each with a potential large reward. Some of my league mates made lineup decisions that didn't work out in my favor. Ahh well. Bad luck on my part. But I didn't even bother examining WHY they would have made the lineup decisions they did. Who's got time for that anyway, and what does it matter. I just assumed the decisions were made because the decisions were made. Nothing more, nothing less.

My point being is that doubt and questions are NOT directly proportionate to the money involved. It's directly proportionate to the amount of paranoia you allow yourself to feel in life. Again, nothing more, nothing less.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I'm proud of the Message Board process here.
Joe and Chad thought they had been wronged. Whether this was conjured up in their own minds or whether they had a legitimate beef was not answered for them. They enlisted the help of others and asked for answers from some in their league.
Those questions have been answered to any onlookers opinion. I have not seen anybody ask for anything else to be proven.
I also think that Joe and Chad's questions have been answered to their own satisfaction. If not, they know that they have been more than answered to the satisfaction of others and that there is no use in pursuing it.

Glenn, Glenn, and Steve felt outrage, anger, and contempt for being wrongly accused. That is only natural.
Except for the early go between before all questions were answered, I think that both sides have been civil.
A tough thing to do in a case like this.
Some onlookers have taken up sides with the accused. But name calling has been minimal.Most, especially new folks, and those who have a small fear of the Boards, are just soaking in the information.

The folks involved in this league will never forget what happened. Neither will most onlookers.
And remembered too, will be the class in which most individuals possessed after these charges were made.
I would not be hesitant in joining any league with them.