A bad hop is not an error

[knuckleheads]

When is MLB going to take scoring decisions away from homers?

There is no way the Nationals play was an error tonight. For those who didn't see it, a routine ground ball hopped up to Desmond's chest. To save Strasburg's ERA, the scorer called it an error. Which led tHe Baseball Tonight crew to put up a graphic that Strasburg leads the majors in unearned runs over the last three years, so therefor, they say he is a soft pitcher.

If tonight is representative of the score-keeping in Washington, it probably means Strasburg' gets a lot of favorable scoring decisions.

#joke #misunderstandsdata

[Captain Hook]

When is MLB going to take scoring decisions away from homers?

There is no way the Nationals play was an error tonight. For those who didn't see it, a routine ground ball hopped up to Desmond's chest. To save Strasburg's ERA, the scorer called it an error. Which led tHe Baseball Tonight crew to put up a graphic that Strasburg leads the majors in unearned runs over the last three years, so therefor, they say he is a soft pitcher.

If tonight is representative of the score-keeping in Washington, it probably means Strasburg' gets a lot of favorable scoring decisions.

#joke #misunderstandsdata

Perhaps you should get a few facts straight so the error is not YOURS

1) MLB official scorers (during the season) are NOT club employees or even recommended by them and they are very experienced and knowledgable and willing to also review all such plays and have access to replays during and after the game.

2) Real bad hops are not scored as errors but maybe that was your assesment

3) The criteria is the simple question - Would HALF the players (at that level) have made the play? If so it would be an error, but if in the OS' judgment half would not have been able to make the play it would not be an error

[knuckleheads]

Clearly, you have not watched the play...

Whether the clubs employ the score keepers or not, there is plenty of home cooking that goes on.

With the centralized replay system setup, it would be very easy to have 1 person review all questionable scoring decisions.

[mattjb]

Clearly, you have not watched the play...

Whether the clubs employ the score keepers or not, there is plenty of home cooking that goes on.

With the centralized replay system setup, it would be very easy to have 1 person review all questionable scoring decisions.

Interesting that the Nationals own color commentator talked about Desmond setting his feet too early and not allowing himself the chance to react to the hop. He seemed comfortable that it was an error.

[knuckleheads]

Clearly, you have not watched the play...

Whether the clubs employ the score keepers or not, there is plenty of home cooking that goes on.

With the centralized replay system setup, it would be very easy to have 1 person review all questionable scoring decisions.

Interesting that the Nationals own color commentator talked about Desmond setting his feet too early and not allowing himself the chance to react to the hop. He seemed comfortable that it was an error.

I'll defer my response to all previous discussions on the quality of home baseball announcers. Strasburg' was being out pitched by Harvey and none of the homers could stand it.

[mattjb]

Are you really concerned about the purity of MLB scoring or do you just own David Wright?

[DOUGHBOYS]

I just saw the play. Replayed it several times in slow motion.
I would have had to give him an error.
Desmond had plenty of time to pick his hop. He could have even avoided that last hop altogether had he charged the ball more aggressively. Instead, he did plant his feet way too soon and at best tried to do his best with an in-between hop.
In slow motion, I couldn't tell if it was a 'bad hop' or if he was unsteady in where to place his glove with the in between hop.
In playing the ball the way he did, he almost forced the official scorekeeper to rule an error.
Most shortstops would have made the play without committing an error.

[knuckleheads]

I just saw the play. Replayed it several times in slow motion.
I would have had to give him an error.
Desmond had plenty of time to pick his hop. He could have even avoided that last hop had he charged the ball more aggressively. Instead, he did plant his feet way too soon and at best tried to do his best with an in-between hop.

10.12 (a)(1)The official scorer shall not score mental mistakes or misjudgments as errors unless a specific rule prescribes otherwise.

Waiting back when you should have charged is not an error. Planting your feet too early is bad judgment and poor technique, but is not an error. Preparing to field a ground ball bouncing shin-high and having it jump to chin-high is not an error.

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/ ... jpg&w=1484

[Captain Hook]

You seem to be missing the point that Desmond TOUCHED the ball - thus the error

and BTW Desmond said it was an error ... "The object is to field the ball that's rolling to you. I wasn't able to convert," Desmond said. "I'm all for owning up when I make a mistake."

Glad you think you know more than the several official scorers who have given their opinion here - you should apologize to Dan while I will just chalk it up to the fact that you ARE a knucklehead

[DOUGHBOYS]

I just saw the play. Replayed it several times in slow motion.
I would have had to give him an error.
Desmond had plenty of time to pick his hop. He could have even avoided that last hop had he charged the ball more aggressively. Instead, he did plant his feet way too soon and at best tried to do his best with an in-between hop.

10.12 (a)(1)The official scorer shall not score mental mistakes or misjudgments as errors unless a specific rule prescribes otherwise.

Waiting back when you should have charged is not an error. Planting your feet too early is bad judgment and poor technique, but is not an error. Preparing to field a ground ball bouncing shin-high and having it jump to chin-high is not an error.

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/ ... jpg&w=1484

I did not see a bad hop. I saw more of an in-between hop that Desmond could not handle.
It is very seldom when a two or three hopper hit directly to the shortstop, with the shortstop squared up to field the ball, without an OBVIOUS bad hop will ever be ruled a hit.
Everybody sees a play differently. This is just the way I saw it.

[knuckleheads]

You seem to be missing the point that Desmond TOUCHED the ball - thus the error

Rule 10.12(a)(1) Comment: It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error.

It's funny. It's like you are only making arguments that the rule book succinctly contradicts.

This link might save us some time: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/of ... rer_10.jsp

No apologies necessary. It's all in fun debate. I am not saying the score-keeper couldn't have called it an error. My point was that if that were in Jeter in NY, it would not have been called an error. But being Desmond in Washington with Strasburg pitching, it was called an error.

[Deadheadz]

You seem to be missing the point that Desmond TOUCHED the ball - thus the error

Rule 10.12(a)(1) Comment: It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error.

It's funny. It's like you are only making arguments that the rule book succinctly contradicts.

To me that implies that if he does touch the ball it's more likely to be an error. Desmond touched it.
Seems like the call wasn't so outrageous.


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[Daveclum]

The bar is ordinary effort. The way things are handled now. The player, agent, coaches, and manager, and even the official scorer. Have the ability to ask for the play to be reviewed. If anyone questions the call the league will review.

[knuckleheads]

It is a specific play I am referring to, but my complaint is with the subjective nature of the decisions. Had 3 runs not scored, I bet the scoring decision would have been changed to a hit.

Desmond, despite his recent absent-minded plays, has impressed me with owning up to each mistake. He understands that requesting the scoring change would cost his teammate 3 earned runs. I don't think that is a request a lot of fielders would make, knowing it would affect their pitcher's ERA.

I am suggesting that in a sport so in love with statistics, a greater effort towards consistency would be nice.

Watching the play live, my immediate reaction was "bad hop." The ball simply hopped too quickly for Desmond to get his glove up.

[DOUGHBOYS]

The bar is ordinary effort. The way things are handled now. The player, agent, coaches, and manager, and even the official scorer. Have the ability to ask for the play to be reviewed. If anyone questions the call the league will review.

So true!
I'll bet Perry has a few stories.
I know I have several and when I am through scorekeeping for the Rockies organization, I will tell some of them.

[KJ Duke]

Devon Travis smokes a hard line drive with the bases loaded, the right fielder takes a step in, then realizes it's hit hard, moves backs and jumps up but can't reach it. That's a double.

Scorer rules it an error ... if official scorers are now charging errors for not reading the ball correctly off that bat there are going to be hundreds more errors this season.

The ruling saved Tillman 4 earned runs (which he deserved) after walking the bases loaded and giving up a screaming line drive. Travis is credited with an out rather than a hit and 3 RBI. Bad, bad call.

[KJ Duke]

Devon Travis smokes a hard line drive with the bases loaded, the right fielder takes a step in, then realizes it's hit hard, moves backs and jumps up but can't reach it. That's a double.

Scorer rules it an error ... if official scorers are now charging errors for not reading the ball correctly off that bat there are going to be hundreds more errors this season.

The ruling saved Tillman 4 earned runs (which he deserved) after walking the bases loaded and giving up a screaming line drive. Travis is credited with an out rather than a hit and 3 RBI. Bad, bad call.

MLB Rule 10.12 ... "The official scorer shall not score mental mistakes or misjudgments as errors".

Who made this error call ... is MLB now using fantasy owners or bloggers who don't know MLB rules as official scorers??? Dan, Perry, an I missing something?

[Deadheadz]

Devon Travis smokes a hard line drive with the bases loaded, the right fielder takes a step in, then realizes it's hit hard, moves backs and jumps up but can't reach it. That's a double.

Scorer rules it an error ... if official scorers are now charging errors for not reading the ball correctly off that bat there are going to be hundreds more errors this season.

The ruling saved Tillman 4 earned runs (which he deserved) after walking the bases loaded and giving up a screaming line drive. Travis is credited with an out rather than a hit and 3 RBI. Bad, bad call.

MLB Rule 10.12 ... "The official scorer shall not score mental mistakes or misjudgments as errors".

Who made this error call ... is MLB now using fantasy owners or bloggers who don't know MLB rules as official scorers??? Dan, Perry, an I missing something?

The scorer obviously had Tillman on his DFS team, or was otherwise a homer regardless.

Hopefully someone with brains and knowledge of the rules contests this and it's overtuned. I won't hold my breath though.

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[mattjb]

Really hoping it stays as an error

It did clip his glove so I think it will.

[Captain Hook]

Devon Travis smokes a hard line drive with the bases loaded, the right fielder takes a step in, then realizes it's hit hard, moves backs and jumps up but can't reach it. That's a double.

Scorer rules it an error ... if official scorers are now charging errors for not reading the ball correctly off that bat there are going to be hundreds more errors this season.

The ruling saved Tillman 4 earned runs (which he deserved) after walking the bases loaded and giving up a screaming line drive. Travis is credited with an out rather than a hit and 3 RBI. Bad, bad call.

MLB Rule 10.12 ... "The official scorer shall not score mental mistakes or misjudgments as errors".

Who made this error call ... is MLB now using fantasy owners or bloggers who don't know MLB rules as official scorers??? Dan, Perry, an I missing something?

With the caveat that I have not seen the play - only heard a description and read what is here .... the OS could have charged the RF with an error if he felt with an error for not catching the ball since it did hit his glove IF he felt that the play should have been made with "ordinary effort". So if he felt that had he not taken a step(s) forward it would have been a routine play to catch the ball.

Scorers do NOT charge for mental errors (unless the mental error leads to a physical misplay)

I sincerely doubt that any MLB official scorers play DFS games or that they are even allowed to as a condidtion of employment. I guarantee you they are never making a decision based on how the stats are affecting fantasy games or players.

[KJ Duke]

Perry, IF he had not taken a step in first he should have easily caught it ... but a mental mistake/ misjudgment of the ball off the bat cannot by rule be an error unless there is an unwritten rule I don't know about. When he raced back trying to recover the ball tipped off the top of his glove at the height of his leap; at that point he had zero chance to catch it within his physical ability.

The only "error" was his first step on account of misjudging the ball - and a hard line drive hit directly at you isn't an easy play to judge anyway. I don't ever recall seeing a play like that called an error, and the way I read the rule I don't see how it could be ruled an error in the context of MLB scoring rules.

[Deadheadz]

I sincerely doubt that any MLB official scorers play DFS games or that they are even allowed to as a condidtion of employment. I guarantee you they are never making a decision based on how the stats are affecting fantasy games or players.

Coincidentally, DraftKings and MLB are now "official partners".
Is Pete Rose in charge of that partership?


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[KJ Duke]

YOU MAKE THE CALL !

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.js ... o_70487583

[knuckleheads]

That play should be scored no differently than a catcher who has trouble reading a curving popup. Were it not for all the "unearned runs" it probably would have been scored a hit.

[DOUGHBOYS]

There are so many conspiracy theorists in this world.
And all of them seem to always find a conspiracy, but have the wrong reasoning.
I can guarantee that this scorekeeper is not playing a daily fantasy game.
Seriously, earned runs or not, was Tillman's effort today worth a damn?

As for the play, I would expect the ruling to be overturned.
Travis Snider is a clunky outfielder. He looks uncoordinated even on casual plays.
The scorekeeper may have asked himself, 'Would 50 percent or more of right fielders had made that play?
And came up with the answer of yes. And, he may be right.
More thought needs to go into that play than simply that question though.
After Snider's step in, he gave maximum effort to catch the ball. The ball tipping his glove.
The tip may have swayed the scorekeeper in the 50 % question asked of himself, but, to me, the ball was hit hard, Snider gave maximum effort and could not catch the ball....albeit in Sniderish awkwardness.
I would have awarded Travis a hit.