2015 NFBC Post-Season Hold 'Em Contest Rules

[Greg Ambrosius]

We are going to debut an NFBC Post-Season Hold 'Em Contest this year for the first time. It is a unique contest in the industry and a unique contest for us. This will be our first points-style league with the scoring based on our upcoming NFBC Cutline Championship system, which will debut in 2016. This is a precursor to that points-based contest.

Anyway, if you've played in our NFFC Post-Season Hold 'Em Contest you'll like this one. The design of the site is very similar to the football layout, so picking available players is very easy. We also have a multiplier in this scoring system throughout the three rounds, so the key is picking the right players on the World Series teams. Points will be doubled for all players that you have in the league Championship Series and if your original players make the World Series their points will be tripled in that round. There is a minimum number and maximum number of players you can have from each MLB team in each round, so everyone will lose players each round.

I'm very excited about this contest and I think it's going to be a great lead-in to our Cutline Championship as we expand to a points-system format. We will have Live Scoring and Live Standings throughout the playoffs, so look for that. We're still toying with the guaranteed prizes, so your feedback here will help us there. Right now the entry fee is $150 per team and the grand prize is $25,000 based on around 400 teams. If we think we can debut with more than that we'll look at the prize pool as right now this is just tentative. We'll finalize everything before we add this contest to Registration.

Anyway, check out the Rules and let us know what you think. The NFBC season is year-round now as we'll have this Post-Season contest and then start Draft Champions drafts shortly after the World Series. There's no down time anymore in the NFBC!! Enjoy all.

OFFICIAL RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE NATIONAL FANTASY BASEBALL CHAMPIONSHIP (NFBC) POST-SEASON HOLD ‘EM TOURNAMENT
1. Overview
The National Fantasy Baseball Championship Post-Season Hold ‘Em Tournament will begin with the first Wild Card games on October 6th and continue through the completion of the World Series. Points will be accumulated throughout the playoffs and the team with the most total points wins the grand prize. Second through 15th place prizes will also be paid based on total points. Each round the number of points that an MLB player earns for your team will be multiplied by the number of rounds he has been on your roster, rewarding owners who correctly predict the top players on this year’s World Series teams. This multiplier scoring system will give MLB players their stats in the Wild Card and Division Series, then two times their scoring totals in the League Championship Series and three times their scoring totals in the World Series. Owners are allowed to make replacements in Rounds 2 and 3 for players who have been eliminated from the playoffs, but each time those players are added they start out with just their scoring totals for that Round. Players who are added to your roster in the Championship Round for the first time and advance to the World Series would then receive 2 times their scoring total in the World Series.

2. Draft: Owners must manage a team of 22 players throughout the playoffs to accumulate the most points. This is a total points contest with the winner being determined at the end of the World Series. Owners will initially complete their 22-man roster before the first Wild Card game by selecting at least 1 player per playoff team and no more than four players per playoff team. In the second round as teams are eliminated from the MLB playoffs, owners can have as many as six players from the same team on their Hold ’Em roster. In Round 3, which is the World Series, owners must fill a reduced roster of 18 players with 9 players from each MLB team. Owners can fill any of the original 22 roster spots with their 18 final round players (if you choose to have no Catcher for Round 3, that’s okay). Owners build their rosters by choosing any player from the available playoff pool for each of the required positions.

3. Roster Requirements: Maximum of 22 players for Rounds 1 and 2, and 18 players for Round 3. No more than four players and no less than one player per MLB team in the first round and no more than six players per MLB team in the second round. In the third round of the MLB playoffs, teams will be limited to 9 players per team for a total of 18 roster spots. Owners can fill any of the original 22 roster spots with their 18 final round players.

Round 1: Wild Card Games and Divisional Games (22-man rosters)
Round 2: League Championship Series (22-man rosters)
Round 3: World Series (18-man rosters)

4. Starting Lineup Requirements: Starting lineups for Rounds 1 and 2 will consist of:

• 1 catcher
• 1 First Baseman
• 1 Second Baseman
• 1 Shortstop
• 1 Third Baseman
• 1 Middle Infielder (2B or SS)
• 1 Corner Infielder (1B or 3B)
• 1 Utility Hitter (any position or DH)
• 5 Outfielders
• 9 Pitchers (any combination of starters and relievers)
In Round 3, rosters can consist of 18 players from any of those 22 spots.

5. Scoring: The NFBC Post-Season Hold ‘Em Contest is a points-based league. Players can accumulate points in the following ways:

For Hitters
Home Run: 6 points
Stolen Base: 5 points
Hit: 4 points
Run: 2 points
RBI: 2 points
At-bat: minus 1 point

For Pitchers
Win: 6 points
Save: 6 points
Inning Pitched: 3 points
Strikeout: 1 point
Hit or Walk Allowed: minus 1 point
Earned Run Allowed: minus 2 points

The NFBC Post-Season Hold ‘Em Tournament is a points-based league designed to approximate the relative contribution value of batter and pitcher outcomes in standard NFBC rotisserie leagues. The NFBC Post-Season Hold ‘Em Tournament starts with the MLB Wild Card games and continues through the World Series games. This is a points-based contest with the top scoring team at the end winning the grand prize. Cost of entry is $150 per team. The site will provide Live Scoring for all players during the playoffs and Live Standings for all teams entered into the Post-Season Hold ‘Em Tournament.

A starting lineup will consist of 13 hitters and 9 pitchers, with the same positions and position eligibility of standard NFBC leagues except for one less catcher. Scoring is automatic, with each team’s 22 starting players receiving points throughout the playoffs. Players that remain on your roster from Round 1 to Round 2 earn twice their point totals in Round 2 and if they are still on your roster in Round 3 they receive three times their point total for each result. Teams are allowed to fill out their Round 2 roster with new players to replace those who were eliminated in Round 1, but those players start at one time their scoring totals. If they advance to Round 3 and remain on your roster, they would get twice their scoring totals in Round 3. Replacements are also allowed in Round 3 for any players you may have lost in Round 2 and again they would start with just their scoring totals for that round.

6. Free Agent Acquisitions: After Round 1 of the playoffs, you can pick up new players to fill out your playoff roster. Owners are limited to no more than 4 players per team and no less than 1 player per team in Round 1. In Round 2 as teams are eliminated from the playoffs, owners can have as many as six players from each team on their Hold ’Em roster and no less than 4 players per team. In Round 3, rosters are reduced to 18 total players, 9 from each of the remaining MLB teams. Transactions are unlimited each round.

7. Hold ’Em Multipliers: Each Round during the contest, fantasy points are multiplied by the number of Rounds each player has been on your roster. So if you pick Mike Trout to be one of your starting OFs in Round 1 and the Angels advance to Round 2, you would earn his points from Round 1 and then two times his points in Round 2. If the Angels went on to the World Series and remained on your Hold ‘Em roster, you’d receive three times his scoring total for all games in Round 3. All points are accumulated through each Round and the highest total wins the grand prize. In each Round, you can pick up a new player for that upcoming round, but the multiplier would begin at one because you just added him to your roster.

8. Roster Time Frame: All starting rosters must be finalized five minutes before MLB’s first Wild Card playoff game on Tuesday, Oct. 6th. No lineup changes will be allowed after that first pitch in Round 1. Wild Card games and Divisional games are part of Round 1; League Championship Games compile Round 2 scores and World Series results compile Round 3 scores. Rosters are due 5 minutes before the scheduled start time of the first game in each of those Rounds.

9. Number of Bid Limits: There is no limit to the number of new free agents you can add each week.

10. League Structure: All teams are entered into this one contest with a $150 entry fee and a $25,000 grand prize. The top 15 finishers at the end of the post-season will earn cash prizes. The prize breakdown is set forth in Paragraph 11 which follows.

11. Prize Breakdown:
$150 National Fantasy Baseball Championship Hold ‘Em Post-Season Contest
1st Place - $25,000
2nd Place - $5,000
3rd Place - $4,000
4th Place - $3,000
5th Place - $2,000
6th Place - $1,500
7th Place - $1,000
8th Place - $900
9th Place - $800
10th Place - $750
11th Place - $700
12th Place - $650
13th Place - $600
14th Place - $550
15th Place - $500

12. National Guarantee: Once a participant signs up online and submits valid payment, no money will be refunded to participants or co-managers unless the Hold ’Em Post-Season Tournament is canceled. A team spot is considered filled when the entire entry fee is paid. There also is no limit to the number of entries an owner may have in the contest. The NFBC is not responsible for any loss or liability incurred by any participant or co-managers due to cancellation of The NFBC Hold ’Em Post-Season Tournament, including but not limited to time taken off from employment, etc.

13. Prize Winnings: If the principal team owner's prize winnings are $600.00 or greater (or any other threshold subsequently established by the IRS), the National Fantasy Baseball Championship (“NFBC”) must file a Form 1099 with the IRS at the end of this calendar year. We will request your social security number and signature on this form. The form contains the amount paid to you and you will receive a copy of the form for tax purposes. STATS pays the principal team owner of each NFBC team that was submitted on the entry form and you are responsible for paying any taxes that result from your cash prize; please consult your income tax advisor for filing advice. In the event that the awarding of any prizes to winners of the Contest is challenged by any legal authority, STATS reserves the right in its sole discretion to determine whether or not to award such prizes. After 12 months, any unclaimed prize will be forfeited.

14. Ties: In the case of teams tying for prize money, the money will be split evenly between the tied teams. For example, if first and second place finishers end in a tie, we will split the total prize money of those two places between tied owners. This is the same for any of the money finishes. There are no tie-breakers involved; teams will just split the prize money.

15. Eligibility; Registration: The National Fantasy Baseball Championship Post-Season Hold ‘Em Tournament is open to individuals who are at least 18 years of age (or the age of majority in your state of residence) and are a resident of the United States of America or Canada. Notwithstanding the foregoing, residents of Washington State, Louisiana, Montana, Arizona, Iowa, and Vermont are not eligible to register or play in the NFBC. All registrations must be in the full legal name of the primary team owner, though owners will have the option to add a co-manager(s).

16. Official Rules: Registration for, and continued participation in, the National Fantasy Baseball Championship Post-Season Hold ‘Em Tournament constitutes your full and unconditional agreement to these official rules (“Official Rules”) and to STATS’ decisions relating thereto. STATS’ decisions in regards to these Official Rules and all matters pertaining to the National Fantasy Baseball Championship are final and binding.

17. Code of Conduct: All participants and co-managers are expected to behave in lawful, respectful and sportsman-like fashion in all online drafts, throughout the NFBC season, and during use of any NFBC website, including, but not limited to comments posted on any NFBC message board. Additionally the NFBC events, games and/or leagues may not be used for any form of gambling. Any conduct or message board post by a participant, co-manager or other person which is deemed by STATS, in its sole discretion, to be unlawful, or to have the effect of intimidating, harassing, offending or otherwise harming any other participant, co-manager, guest, or NFBC/STATS representative, is strictly prohibited. STATS reserves the right, in its sole discretion to ban any person from current and/or future participation in the NFBC and/or from use of the message boards if such person engages in any such prohibited conduct or is otherwise in violation of any of these Rules. In addition, any person engaging in such conduct forfeits any rights to a refund, as well as any potential rights to a prize award. STATS shall not be responsible or held liable to any person for damage to property or personal injury or death arising from the acts or omissions of any third parties. Any participants or co-managers who collude, or attempt to collude, or who attempts to blackmail, bribe or otherwise influence any representative of STATS/NFBC, or who otherwise attempts to sabotage the league, in an effort to alter the results or outcome of any NFBC game will be disqualified and will be prohibited from winning any prize award. If a participant is banned from participation in a current NFBC game, then STATS reserves the right, to take those actions which it sees fit, in its sole discretion with respect to such banned participant’s team. Any criminal behavior may be referred to the appropriate authorities.

18. Errors: The deadline for submitting any dispute or claim regarding the operation of any league draft is one hour after the conclusion of the draft itself; further, leaving any live draft event without submitting any dispute or claim regarding the draft constitutes your waiver of any right to challenge any aspect of the draft. You are strongly urged to double-check your lineups, trades, and free agent moves throughout the season, as STATS/NFBC will not be held liable for any errors in entering lineups, trades or free agent moves, and STATS/NFBC will not intervene or alter a transaction after lineups, trades or free agent moves are due.

19. Prize Splitting: Prize splitting amongst the principal registrant and co-managers is available, provided that the principal registrant has authorized payment to his co-managers in writing and in advance of the completion of the season. In order to authorize prize-splitting, the principal registrant must completely fill out and sign the authorization form designated by STATS (including the name and address of the co-manager(s) and the applicable prize percentage to be paid to each co-manager(s)). Both the principal registrant and each co-manager designated on a prize-splitting form will be required to fill out a W-9. No prize money will be distributed until all necessary forms have been received by STATS. Both the principal registrant and the co-manager(s) will receive IRS Form 1099 reflecting the prize money paid to each. If STATS deems, in its sole discretion, that the appropriate documentation and/or authorization has not been received, or has not been received in a timely fashion, then STATS will pay prize payments only to the principal registrant.

20. Communication and Access: All NFBC team owners must have internet access and a valid e-mail address for communication. STATS is not responsible for any issues which impede or interfere with the transmission or receipt of any transaction, including but not limited to, draft selections, trades, free agent moves and lineups. STATS is also not responsible for the failure of any telephone networks/lines, internet connections, software/hardware, or internet congestion/transmission rates.

21. Hold Harmless: Each participant and co-owner hereby releases and holds harmless STATS and its parents, affiliates, and subsidiaries, and their respective directors, officers, employees, agents and representatives from and against any and all liability for any injuries, losses or damages of any kind to person (including death) and property, arising in whole or in part, directly or indirectly from participation in any NFBC event, game or league, as well as acceptance or use of any prize award.

22. Disputes; Limitation of Liability; Disclaimer: Each participant and co-owner agrees that (i) all issues and questions regarding the construction, validity, interpretation and enforceability of these Official Rules, or your rights and obligations in connection with the NFBC shall be governed by, and construed in accordance with, the laws of the state of Illinois, without giving effect to any choice of law or conflict of law rules; and (ii) any and all disputes, claims and causes of action arising out of or connected with the NFBC or any prize awarded will be resolved individually, without resort to any form of class action, and exclusively by the United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, or the appropriate state court located in Cook County, Illinois; and (iii) in no event shall STATS liability to you for any and all damages, losses or causes of action exceed $250; and (iv) in no event shall STATS, its parents, affiliates, and subsidiaries, and their respective directors, officers, employees, agents and representatives, be liable for any punitive, incidental and consequential damages. If your jurisdiction does not allow limitations or exclusions of liability for incidental or consequential damages, the above may not apply to you. WITHOUT LIMITING THE FOREGOING, EACH NFBC GAME, EVENT, LEAGUE,WEBSITE, AND BULLETIN BOARD/FORUM IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. IF YOUR JURISDICTION DOES NOT ALLOW FOR THE EXCLUSION OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES, THE ABOVE MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

23. Player Eligibility: Players will have their eligibility for the post-season contest based on the 2015 season. Players who qualify at multiple positions can be used at any of those positions. All decisions made by the NFBC commissioner regarding eligibility are final.

[Greg Ambrosius]

In 2014, if you wanted to win our Post-Season Hold 'Em Contest you definitely would have needed Madison Bumgarner on your roster. His performance in the playoffs was historic and he easily was the MVP of the World Series. Remember, two Wild Card teams reached the World Series last year, so not everyone would have even had many of these guys on their original rosters. Anyway, here's a look at the final scoring totals from the 2014 Post-Season in our NFBC points system scoring:

Team Player RD1 RD2 RD3 Total
SFG Madison Bumgarner 54 90 258 402
SFG Pablo Sandoval 11 36 120 167
SFG Hunter Pence 14 102 116
KCR Alex Gordon 24 36 30 90
KCR Greg Holland 32 38 70
STL Matt Carpenter 48 16 64
KCR Omar Infante 3 60 63
KCR Alcides Escobar 18 34 52
KCR James Shields 24 -2 30 52
BAL Adam Jones 10 32 42
WSN Bryce Harper 37 37
STL Kolten Wong 33 33
SFG Buster Posey 27 16 -12 31
SFG Santiago Casilla 20 4 24
LAD Hanley Ramirez 23 23
STL Matt Holliday 19 4 23
KCR Lorenzo Cain 22 22
STL Matt Adams 22 22
KCR Wade Davis 22 22
STL Adam Wainwright 19 19
LAD Clayton Kershaw 19 19
LAA Jered Weaver 18 18
SFG Jeremy Affeldt 18 18
DET Miguel Cabrera 17 17
BAL Andrew Miller 16 16
KCR Kelvin Herrera 16 16
SFG Gregor Blanco 15 15
BAL Zach Britton 15 0 15
KCR Eric Hosmer 14 14
SFG Brandon Belt 12 12
DET Max Scherzer 9 9
BAL Nick Markakis 8 8
STL Lance Lynn 7 7
BAL Wei-Yin Chen 7 7
BAL Nelson Cruz 6 6
WSN Steven Strasburg 6 6
LAD Dee Gordon 4 4
DET Joe Nathan 4 4
OAK Jon Lester 4 4
LAA Mike Trout 2 2
SFG Travis Ishikawa -1 -1
PIT Andrew McCutchen -3 -3
LAA Howie Kendrick -3 -3

And here's an example of what a Round 3 roster could look like. Not all players on your roster will necessarily score you positive points, but that's the tough part of this contest:

Pos Team Player Win (6 pts) Save (6 pts) IP (3 pts) K (1 pt) H or BB (-1 pt) ER (-2 pts) Total x2 x3
P1 KCR James Shields 0 0 9 6 9 7 10 30
P2 KCR Greg Holland 0 1 3 5 1 0 19 38
P3 SFG Madison Bumgarner 2 1 21 17 10 1 86
P4 KCR Kelvin Herrera 1 0 6 6 10 2 16
P5 SFG Santiago Casilla 0 0 0 2 0 0 2 4
P6 KCR Wade Davis 0 0 5 10 3 0 22
P7 SFG Jeremy Affeldt 1 0 5 0 3 0 18

Team Player HR (6 pts) SB (5 pts) H (4 pts) R (2 pts) RBI (2 pts) AB (-1 pt) Total x2 x3
C SFG Buster Posey 0 0 4 1 2 26 -4 -12
1B KCR Eric Hosmer 0 0 7 3 4 28 14
SS KCR Alcides Escobar 0 0 9 3 2 29 17 34
MI KCR Omar Infante 1 0 7 4 5 22 30 60
CI SFG Pablo Sandoval 0 0 12 6 4 28 40 120
UT SFG Travis Ishikawa 0 0 3 0 0 13 -1
OF1 KCR Alex Gordon 0 1 5 4 2 27 10 30
OF2 KCR Lorenzo Cain 0 0 8 4 4 26 22
OF3 SFG Brandon Belt 0 0 8 1 2 26 12
OF4 SFG Gregor Blanco 1 1 4 6 2 28 15
OF5 SFG Hunter Pence 1 0 12 7 5 27 51 102

In this example, scoring breakdown for this team in Round 3 was:
Pitchers = 386 points
Hitters = 396 points
Total Points = 782 points

The scoring breakdown for this team in all 3 Rounds was:
Pitchers = 728 points
Hitters = 856 points
total Points = 1,584 points

It's just an example to show you how the individual scoring can work in multiple rounds and how the scoring does try to value hitters and pitchers equally. Thoughts?

[Greg Ambrosius]

We also looked at 2013's Post-Season and how that would have fared with this scoring system. Here you go:

Team Player RD1 RD2 RD3 Total
BOS Jon Lester 24 46 180 250
BOS David Ortiz 33 4 198 235
BOS Koji Uehara 22 94 75 191
STL Adam Wainwright 59 32 66 157
STL Matt Holliday 22 22 90 134
DET Max Scherzer 36 78 114
LAD Zack Greinke 13 90 103
STL Carlos Beltran 28 38 33 99
STL Michael Wacha 55 24 79
LAD Clayton Kershaw 51 22 73
DET Miguel Cabrera 14 54 68
BOS Dustin Pedroia 13 22 24 59
STL Yadier Molina 15 8 27 50
BOS Jacoby Ellsbury 28 20 48
LAD Hanley Ramirez 47 -6 41
BOS John Lackey 34 34
BOS Clay Bucholz 17 16 33
STL Trevor Rosenthal 31 31
OAK Yoenis Cespedes 31 31
DET Justin Verlander 27 27
OAK Grant Balfour 23 23
LAD Carl Crawford 15 15
STL Matt Carpenter 15 15
PIT Andrew McCutchen 13 13
TBR Evan Longoria 11 11
ATL Craig Kimbrel 9 9
TBR Ben Zobrist 8 8
BOS Shane Victorino 7 7
STL Lance Lynn 5 5
LAD Yasiel Puig 4 4
BOS Mike Napoli 3 3
TBR David Price 1 1
CLE Jason Kipnis -4 -4
CIN Joey Votto -4 -4
DET Prince Fielder -4 -4
LAD Juan Uribe -5 -5
STL Matt Adams 6 -20 -14

And here's some fun numbers from the 2012 Post-Season:

Team Player RD1 RD2 RD3 Total
SFG Pablo Sandoval 23 78 144 245
DET Justin Verlander 68 56 -3 121
SFG Matt Cain 19 58 39 116
DET Miguel Cabrera 4 48 39 91
SFG Buster Posey 25 -8 45 62
STL Jason Motte 18 40 58
DET Max Scherzer 25 24 49
SFG Hunter Pence 12 30 42
SFG Tim Lincecum 4 38 42
CIN Brandon Phillips 39 39
NYY CC Sabathia 58 -22 36
STL Matt Holliday 24 12 36
STL Kyle Lohse 37 -2 35
STL Carlos Beltran 28 28
STL Adam Wainwright 26 26
OAK Yoenis Cespedes 21 21
NYY Derek Jeter 22 -2 20
SFG Gregor Blanco 10 10 20
DET Omar Infante 9 10 19
DET Delmon Young 18 18
TXR Yu Darvish 16 16
SFG Ryan Vogelsong 15 15
WSN Gio Gonzalez 13 13
DET Phil Coke 13 13
SFG Marco Scutaro 12 12
NYY Raul Ibanez 11 11
WSN Tyler Clippard 10 10
NYY David Robertson 4 4
DET Austin Jackson 3 3
BAL Chris Davis 2 2
DET Jhonny Peralta 1 1
CIN Johnny Cueto 1 1
ATL Jason Heyward -1 -1
NYY Mark Teixeira -1 -1
TXR Josh Hamilton -4 -4
SFG Brandon Belt -5 -5
BAL Adam Jones -16 -16
DET Prince Fielder 7 6 -30 -17
NYY Robinson Cano -4 -28 -32

[Deadheadz]

.

Looks great guys.

I realize I'm showing how mathematically challenged I am by asking this but I want to be sure I understand correctly.
A solo HR would be worth 13pts (6 for the HR, plus 4 for the Hit, plus 2 for the Run, plus 2 for the RBI, minus 1 for the AB)?

5. Scoring: The NFBC Post-Season Hold ‘Em Contest is a points-based league. Players can accumulate points in the following ways:

For Hitters
Home Run: 6 points
Stolen Base: 5 points
Hit: 4 points
Run: 2 points
RBI: 2 points
At-bat: minus 1 point

.

[Greg Ambrosius]

.

Looks great guys.

I realize I'm showing how mathematically challenged I am by asking this but I want to be sure I understand correctly.
A solo HR would be worth 13pts (6 for the HR, plus 4 for the Hit, plus 2 for the Run, plus 2 for the RBI, minus 1 for the AB)?

5. Scoring: The NFBC Post-Season Hold ‘Em Contest is a points-based league. Players can accumulate points in the following ways:

For Hitters
Home Run: 6 points
Stolen Base: 5 points
Hit: 4 points
Run: 2 points
RBI: 2 points
At-bat: minus 1 point

.

Yes. Same for the NFBC Cutline Championship as well.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Love the concept, hate the scoring system. In a points system, there is no way a single should be worth as much as a double or a triple. Should be a relatively straight forward total base scoring system. A single should not be worth twice as much as a run or rbi either. And nothing for a walk or HBP? Never heard of such a thing in a points baseball format. It is mind boggling how annoying it will be when you have a guy take a great plate appearance and draw a walk and get zero and your opponent gets a lucky bloop single. They both did the same thing. Reach first. He gets 4, I get nothing? Not right, and also not anything I have ever seen before in points baseball. As many good points offensive scoring systems that exist in the industry, I would strongly recommend using them as a guide. This is really bad IMO. The pitching is probably okay in relation to the offense you have set up. Others may not care what the scoring system is, but it is such an issue that it would certainly affect my thoughts on participation, even though the concept itself is awesome. Can't imagine playing a full season contest with it. Would make sure I found something better to launch that contest with.

Also an opportunity to get partly sponsored by a daily game like you do with rotowire championships. Get fan duel or draftkings and use their scoring system. Both are much better than this. CDM points baseball a good place to look as well.

[Deadheadz]

Love the concept, hate the scoring system. In a points system, there is no way a single should be worth as much as a double or a triple. Should be a relatively straight forward total base scoring system. A single should not be worth twice as much as a run or rbi either. And nothing for a walk or HBP? Never heard of such a thing in a points baseball format. It is mind boggling how annoying it will be when you have a guy take a great plate appearance and draw a walk and get zero and your opponent gets a lucky bloop single. They both did the same thing. Reach first. He gets 4, I get nothing? Not right, and also not anything I have ever seen before in points baseball. As many good points offensive scoring systems that exist in the industry, I would strongly recommend using them as a guide. This is really bad IMO. The pitching is probably okay in relation to the offense you have set up. Others may not care what the scoring system is, but it is such an issue that it would certainly affect my thoughts on participation, even though the concept itself is awesome. Can't imagine playing a full season contest with it. Would make sure I found something better to launch that contest with.

Also an opportunity to get partly sponsored by a daily game like you do with rotowire championships. Get fan duel or draftkings and use their scoring system. Both are much better than this. CDM points baseball a good place to look as well.

I'm thinking they're trying to encourage managers who play this to all be picking players who get hits and HR not necessarily those with good OBP.

It will mean many of us will have similar players in common and the winner will dominate by luck rather than the skill of the manager choosing a player who was missed by others. It will probably mean most managers will lose just barely - which will keep them coming back for more since they "almost" won.

.

[ToddZ]

FWIW -- the system was empirically designed so the rankings, hence cutline ADP, would best resemble that of the standard 5x5 roto game. I was not a proponent of the scoring system but understand the motivation.

[COZ]

Love the concept, hate the scoring system. In a points system, there is no way a single should be worth as much as a double or a triple. Should be a relatively straight forward total base scoring system. A single should not be worth twice as much as a run or rbi either. And nothing for a walk or HBP? Never heard of such a thing in a points baseball format. It is mind boggling how annoying it will be when you have a guy take a great plate appearance and draw a walk and get zero and your opponent gets a lucky bloop single. They both did the same thing. Reach first. He gets 4, I get nothing? Not right, and also not anything I have ever seen before in points baseball. As many good points offensive scoring systems that exist in the industry, I would strongly recommend using them as a guide. This is really bad IMO. The pitching is probably okay in relation to the offense you have set up. Others may not care what the scoring system is, but it is such an issue that it would certainly affect my thoughts on participation, even though the concept itself is awesome. Can't imagine playing a full season contest with it. Would make sure I found something better to launch that contest with.

Also an opportunity to get partly sponsored by a daily game like you do with rotowire championships. Get fan duel or draftkings and use their scoring system. Both are much better than this. CDM points baseball a good place to look as well.

While I don't even remotely know what is an appropriate points-based scoring system as I typically don't play points based scoring unless I'm playing a Daily game, the 4 points for a hit, 5 points for a SB, not differentiating a 2B or 3B from a single, no points for a BB, and a -1 for every AB (even if a hit?, so a hit would actually be 3 points?) all struck me as odd. I held off on commenting because I am not an experienced "points-based" guy and wanted to get others input first. Very cool concept and looking forward to it but the scoring system is "interesting' to say the least. Just my take.

COZ

[Greg Ambrosius]

Chad, thanks for the comments on this contest as they are much appreciated. I agree with you that this Post-Season Hold 'Em Contest is a great setup and has potential with those players who want to extend their baseball fun past the regular season. And I'll gladly explain our scoring format.

What we have tried to replicate with the NFBC Cutline Championship scoring system is a Rotisserie-style format where players have similar values to a 5x5 Roto league. We do not give value to a walk in 5x5 Roto and a walk isn't given a point in the points system either. Our scoring also gives extra value to stolen bases, saves, etc., to accurately reflect their values in NFBC-style 5x5 scoring. In other words, we want our Cutline ADPs to be similar to the NFBC ADPs and we want our NFBC players to go into a Cutline draft with the same draft list as they would use for an NFBC Main Event. All categories are valued equally in our 5x5 and points system games to make this an easy transition not only for our players but for all Roto players.

This is a season-long contest, not a daily contest where every action on the field for that night is worthy of a point. Yes, we could change this to a normal points-system scoring format and assign 1 point for a single, 2 for a double, 3 for a triple, 4 for a home run, 1 for a walk, etc., but then owners would have to create a completely separate Cheat Sheet and scouting report for the Cutline game. You'd have to assign OBP as an important category and devalue steals and saves, etc. In other words, we're not trying to create a separate game; we're trying to duplicate the scoring of the NFBC's other games.

Russ Prentice of the NFBC has assigned our points scoring system to his local league and he's playing it out right now on Yahoo.com. He emailed recently and said it's been a great reflection of 5x5 Roto and plays out well. Obviously we'll have to play with it for a season and tweak where needed, but I worked with Todd Zola and KJ Duke on this and we ran the numbers based on the previous season's final stats and came away with very reflective numbers based on 5x5 Roto values. It should be an easy transition for anyone to draft an NFBC Online Championship league one night, an NFBC Main Event the next and an NFBC Cutline Championship league the next night and still use the same Cheat Sheets for all three. That's the goal; not to make you create a new Cheat Sheet for the Cutline.

The Post-Season Hold 'Em Contest is also a season-long game, not a daily game. So while walks are very important in daily games, they haven't been scored at all in most season-long games. They can be if leagues switch from BA to OBP, but so far that hasn't been a trend. I realize that we could have easily gone to an easier points-based scoring system for this playoff contest, but again we are trying to replicate the Roto values and use this scoring system as an introduction to the Cutline Championship. I think the key to this tournament is no different than it is for the NFFC Post-Season Hold 'em Contest: You need to pick the right teams that are going to make it to the World Series and then you need to have those top stars on your team from Week 1 on. The points are the same for everyone in this contest, but picking the right players will be the skillful part.

I hope this helps to explain what we are doing here and why the scoring is what it is. It's meant to replicate 5x5 Roto with the same categories and skill set. At the end of the season, we believe that the Player Rating for the NFBC's 5x5 format will be very similar to the Player Rating for the Cutline points-based scoring system. That's the goal at least.

Good luck all and keep the feedback coming in.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Love the concept, hate the scoring system. In a points system, there is no way a single should be worth as much as a double or a triple. Should be a relatively straight forward total base scoring system. A single should not be worth twice as much as a run or rbi either. And nothing for a walk or HBP? Never heard of such a thing in a points baseball format. It is mind boggling how annoying it will be when you have a guy take a great plate appearance and draw a walk and get zero and your opponent gets a lucky bloop single. They both did the same thing. Reach first. He gets 4, I get nothing? Not right, and also not anything I have ever seen before in points baseball. As many good points offensive scoring systems that exist in the industry, I would strongly recommend using them as a guide. This is really bad IMO. The pitching is probably okay in relation to the offense you have set up. Others may not care what the scoring system is, but it is such an issue that it would certainly affect my thoughts on participation, even though the concept itself is awesome. Can't imagine playing a full season contest with it. Would make sure I found something better to launch that contest with.

Also an opportunity to get partly sponsored by a daily game like you do with rotowire championships. Get fan duel or draftkings and use their scoring system. Both are much better than this. CDM points baseball a good place to look as well.

I'm thinking they're trying to encourage managers who play this to all be picking players who get hits and HR not necessarily those with good OBP.

It will mean many of us will have similar players in common and the winner will dominate by luck rather than the skill of the manager choosing a player who was missed by others. It will probably mean most managers will lose just barely - which will keep them coming back for more since they "almost" won.

.

I for the life of me have no idea what you are describing here. Hopefully I described our motivation better above.

[COZ]

Chad, thanks for the comments on this contest as they are much appreciated. I agree with you that this Post-Season Hold 'Em Contest is a great setup and has potential with those players who want to extend their baseball fun past the regular season. And I'll gladly explain our scoring format.

What we have tried to replicate with the NFBC Cutline Championship scoring system is a Rotisserie-style format where players have similar values to a 5x5 Roto league. We do not give value to a walk in 5x5 Roto and a walk isn't given a point in the points system either. Our scoring also gives extra value to stolen bases, saves, etc., to accurately reflect their values in NFBC-style 5x5 scoring. In other words, we want our Cutline ADPs to be similar to the NFBC ADPs and we want our NFBC players to go into a Cutline draft with the same draft list as they would use for an NFBC Main Event. All categories are valued equally in our 5x5 and points system games to make this an easy transition not only for our players but for all Roto players.

This is a season-long contest, not a daily contest where every action on the field for that night is worthy of a point. Yes, we could change this to a normal points-system scoring format and assign 1 point for a single, 2 for a double, 3 for a triple, 4 for a home run, 1 for a walk, etc., but then owners would have to create a completely separate Cheat Sheet and scouting report for the Cutline game. You'd have to assign OBP as an important category and devalue steals and saves, etc. In other words, we're not trying to create a separate game; we're trying to duplicate the scoring of the NFBC's other games.

Russ Prentice of the NFBC has assigned our points scoring system to his local league and he's playing it out right now on Yahoo.com. He emailed recently and said it's been a great reflection of 5x5 Roto and plays out well. Obviously we'll have to play with it for a season and tweak where needed, but I worked with Todd Zola and KJ Duke on this and we ran the numbers based on the previous season's final stats and came away with very reflective numbers based on 5x5 Roto values. It should be an easy transition for anyone to draft an NFBC Online Championship league one night, an NFBC Main Event the next and an NFBC Cutline Championship league the next night and still use the same Cheat Sheets for all three. That's the goal; not to make you create a new Cheat Sheet for the Cutline.

The Post-Season Hold 'Em Contest is also a season-long game, not a daily game. So while walks are very important in daily games, they haven't been scored at all in most season-long games. They can be if leagues switch from BA to OBP, but so far that hasn't been a trend. I realize that we could have easily gone to an easier points-based scoring system for this playoff contest, but again we are trying to replicate the Roto values and use this scoring system as an introduction to the Cutline Championship. I think the key to this tournament is no different than it is for the NFFC Post-Season Hold 'em Contest: You need to pick the right teams that are going to make it to the World Series and then you need to have those top stars on your team from Week 1 on. The points are the same for everyone in this contest, but picking the right players will be the skillful part.

I hope this helps to explain what we are doing here and why the scoring is what it is. It's meant to replicate 5x5 Roto with the same categories and skill set. At the end of the season, we believe that the Player Rating for the NFBC's 5x5 format will be very similar to the Player Rating for the Cutline points-based scoring system. That's the goal at least.

Good luck all and keep the feedback coming in.

Makes sense. I figured there was some underlying rationale to the points chosen and you have explained it perfectly. Looking forward to it and being miserable...I mean enjoying...the fantasy aspect through the playoffs now, too.

COZ

[Deadheadz]

I'm thinking they're trying to encourage managers who play this to all be picking players who get hits and HR not necessarily those with good OBP.

It will mean many of us will have similar players in common and the winner will dominate by luck rather than the skill of the manager choosing a player who was missed by others. It will probably mean most managers will lose just barely - which will keep them coming back for more since they "almost" won.

.

I for the life of me have no idea what you are describing here. Hopefully I described our motivation better above.

In short, the much smaller pool over players available in the MLB playoffs combined with the scoring system of this game will mean a lot of the 400+ teams will have several players in common. With all the great fantasy baseball minds at NFBC you'd have to assume all the best players will be owned on most teams. It'll be the sleepers who win or lose the contest for you.

Hope you've got some good rules for tie breakers.

.

[EWeaver]

What we have tried to replicate with the NFBC Cutline Championship scoring system is a Rotisserie-style format where players have similar values to a 5x5 Roto league.

http://tinyurl.com/njcw4t7

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Thanks for the explanation Greg. I knew there had to be a method behind the "madness." I personally don't think that a points system should replicate a roto style scoring system. I think part of the appeal of it is that it doesn't. It is refreshing to get rewarding for a productive thing, such as a walk. It is rewarding to get duly rewarded for lacing a ball off the wall for two or three bases. You get to see your points add up in several different ways. It seems very hard to translate true roto into a points based system. I am pretty sure it is not the way to go. There will be winners and losers no matter what scoring system used. But I think the enjoyment level would be much higher with a more traditional approach. And I guarantee you that people will "game" the system. Not a snowball chance in hell that someone wins your full season cutline contest with a team that resembles anything like a traditional roto winning team. It isn't roto. So why should the scoring try to treat it as such? I would strongly recommend not using that approach when launching what sounds like a great new contest. I can more easily explain some of the reason on the phone if you are inclined. I won't give out the proper strategy on here, but it is pretty obvious. And it will really make the game somewhat ridiculous and it will in no way reflect a full season roto league. I can picture KJ gaming the system as he helped develop the system, lol. No chance one of his teams looks like a normal roto team.

[CC's Desperados]

With the daily games taking over the fantasy world, you have a great opportunity to fight off the take over by the Evil Empire.

Your thinking is too much in the NFBC box and there are only so many dollars you can bleed off your current cast of characters. It's almost like your stealing from one game to feed another.

In the daily games, they have recycled dollars to help build the action each day. By paying out everyday, a fantasy owner doesn't have to layout money from six to nine months before getting paid.

Your goal here should be stealing back some of your players plus find an easy way for daily players to navigate to your game without needing a huge learning curve of a players value.

Without a doubt, this game's scoring should match DraftKings scoring system. They have their foot in the door with major league baseball, which is your target market.

Jason Robins has tried set up a relationship with you and you balk at the idea. Fanduel has supported you, but they will sleep with anyone to help them have growth.

I don't think you giving your group of fantasy players credit. They play multiple scoring systems in football while drafting these teams on the same weekend many times. They will figure out the drop downs at each position plus each owner will need to find the best way to play this game.

[gsjanoff]

I think you need a simpler scoring system, and 1 that more represents what is currently used in the daily games.

I personally prefer the fan duel scoring to draft kings as its just cleaner and easier to understand, although I don't know that you need to mimic either one of them 100%.

Just the fact that you can get points for an HR and yet lose points for the AB is a turn off to me. Add in the fact that you get those same points for an HR and are also getting points for a hit at the same time, yet another turn off. You should get 1 or the othe. This is like saying I got a triple, but effectively also got a double on the same play so I should get both. I mean I passed second base to get to third. Totally illogical in my mind.

And then you don't get points for a walk, which is truly part of the game. I just don't see the plus of this. While maybe it shouldn't be equal to that of a hit, the bottom line is it wasnt an out, which is truly the only negative aspect a hitter can achieve in a plate appearance.

And a hit by pitch, also. I mean the batter got to first base, which technically is his goal when he comes to the plate. I'm pretty certain he didn't want to get hit, but to get a negative 1 for it because it was an AB. That is also illogical. At the very least, he should get a zero, and the pitcher should get a negative 1 for hitting him.

I love the idea of the post season contest, and I compete in the football postseason contest you run, even though I dont compete in the NFFC. Seeing these rules, and/or points system, I am highly unlikely to compete, or far more likely to seek playoff action on a daily site.

I would truly love a baseball playoff tournament as I feel there is a absolute need for this, in this business, but this simply isn't the answer in my mind, and I hope you revisit this and make some changes.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Thanks for the feedback all. It's obvious that the concept of the Post-Season Contest makes sense, but some folks are having issues with the scoring setup and lineup structure. And I have no problem with that. That's why I posted the rules here, to get your feedback. Let's tweak it together to make it the best it can be. And if needed, we'll adjust the Cutline Championship where needed next year, but first comes the Post-Season Contest.

I'll ask two simple question:
1. Roster Makeup for Post-Season Contest: We currently have 22 players for first two rounds; 18 players for World Series. Daily games have 10 players. What's an ideal roster size for this Post-Season Contest and roster makeup?

2. Scoring system: We have it set up to mimic our NFBC Roto scoring system. How much should we alter it to mirror more of the daily games?

Here's our scoring setup as is now, which obviously can change:

For Hitters
Home Run: 6 points
Stolen Base: 5 points
Hit: 4 points
Run: 2 points
RBI: 2 points
At-bat: minus 1 point

For Pitchers
Win: 6 points
Save: 6 points
Inning Pitched: 3 points
Strikeout: 1 point
Hit or Walk Allowed: minus 1 point
Earned Run Allowed: minus 2 points

Here is the Draft Kings setup and scoring system:
TEAM ROSTERS
• Rosters will consist of 10 players and must include hitters from at least 3 different MLB teams.
• The 10 roster positions are: P, P, C, 1B/DH, 2B, 3B, SS, OF, OF, OF
POINT SCORING
• Hitters will accumulate points as follows:
o Single = +3 PTs
o Double = +5 PTs
o Triple = +8 PTs
o Home Run = +10 PTs
o Run Batted In = +2 PTs
o Run = +2 PTs
o Base on Balls = +2 PTs
o Hit By Pitch = +2 PTs
o Stolen Base = +5 PTs
o Caught Stealing = -2 PTs
• Pitchers will accumulate points as follows:
o Inning Pitched = +2.25 PTs
o Strike Out = +2 PTs
o Win = +4 PTs
o Earned Run Allowed = -2 PTs
o Hit Against = -0.6 PTs
o Base on Balls Against = -0.6 PTs
o Hit Batsman = -0.6 PTs
o Complete Game = +2.5 PTs
o Complete Game Shut Out = +2.5 PTs
o No Hitter = +5 PTs
• *NOTE: Hitting statistics for Pitchers will not be counted, and Pitching statistics for Hitters will not be counted.

Here is Fanduel's:
Hitters
1B = 1pt
2B = 2pts
3B = 3pts
HR = 4pts
RBI = 1pt
R = 1pt
BB = 1pt
SB = 2pts
HBP = 1pt
Out (calculated as at bats - hits) = -.25pt

Pitchers:
W = 4 points
ER = -1point
SO = 1 point
IP = 1 point

It's fun to create new games. I'm not against any suggestion to make this one better. We strongly believe that the Hold 'em concept with multipliers for each round is a unique, fun setup that will appeal to season-long players. It's worked in football and the same concept holds true here. We have plenty of time to finalize the roster size and scoring format to attract NFBC players and new players to the NFBC. Give some constructive feedback and we'll tweak it together.

Thanks all.

[CC's Desperados]

The lineup size is tricky for the playoff format. You want to have it large enough where the volume players can't buy the championship by drafting just roster from a couple of teams, but you also want to invite some decision making to create some tough decisions.

[Greg Ambrosius]

The lineup size is tricky for the playoff format. You want to have it large enough where the volume players can't buy the championship by drafting just roster from a couple of teams, but you also want to invite some decision making to create some tough decisions.

Agreed. We'll put minimums and maximums for one team in each round, so let's see a starting roster number. If 22 is too high and 10 is too low for a season-long playoff format, then what is the right number? From there we can come up with the required positions.

I'll start: C, 1B, 2B, SS, 3B, UT, OF, OF, OF, OF, P, P, P, P, P. Is 15 too few or too many for the Post-Season Contest?

[Daveclum]

Have to say. I have never played at Draft Kings. But, I do like the looks of the scoring system .

[Navel Lint]

We also looked at 2013's Post-Season and how that would have fared with this scoring system. Here you go:

Team Player RD1 RD2 RD3 Total
BOS Jon Lester 24 46 180 250
BOS David Ortiz 33 4 198 235
BOS Koji Uehara 22 94 75 191
STL Adam Wainwright 59 32 66 157
STL Matt Holliday 22 22 90 134
DET Max Scherzer 36 78 114
LAD Zack Greinke 13 90 103
STL Carlos Beltran 28 38 33 99
STL Michael Wacha 55 24 79
LAD Clayton Kershaw 51 22 73
DET Miguel Cabrera 14 54 68
BOS Dustin Pedroia 13 22 24 59
STL Yadier Molina 15 8 27 50
BOS Jacoby Ellsbury 28 20 48
LAD Hanley Ramirez 47 -6 41
BOS John Lackey 34 34
BOS Clay Bucholz 17 16 33
STL Trevor Rosenthal 31 31
OAK Yoenis Cespedes 31 31
DET Justin Verlander 27 27
OAK Grant Balfour 23 23
LAD Carl Crawford 15 15
STL Matt Carpenter 15 15
PIT Andrew McCutchen 13 13
TBR Evan Longoria 11 11
ATL Craig Kimbrel 9 9
TBR Ben Zobrist 8 8
BOS Shane Victorino 7 7
STL Lance Lynn 5 5
LAD Yasiel Puig 4 4
BOS Mike Napoli 3 3
TBR David Price 1 1
CLE Jason Kipnis -4 -4
CIN Joey Votto -4 -4
DET Prince Fielder -4 -4
LAD Juan Uribe -5 -5
STL Matt Adams 6 -20 -14

And here's some fun numbers from the 2012 Post-Season:

Team Player RD1 RD2 RD3 Total
SFG Pablo Sandoval 23 78 144 245
DET Justin Verlander 68 56 -3 121
SFG Matt Cain 19 58 39 116
DET Miguel Cabrera 4 48 39 91
SFG Buster Posey 25 -8 45 62
STL Jason Motte 18 40 58
DET Max Scherzer 25 24 49
SFG Hunter Pence 12 30 42
SFG Tim Lincecum 4 38 42
CIN Brandon Phillips 39 39
NYY CC Sabathia 58 -22 36
STL Matt Holliday 24 12 36
STL Kyle Lohse 37 -2 35
STL Carlos Beltran 28 28
STL Adam Wainwright 26 26
OAK Yoenis Cespedes 21 21
NYY Derek Jeter 22 -2 20
SFG Gregor Blanco 10 10 20
DET Omar Infante 9 10 19
DET Delmon Young 18 18
TXR Yu Darvish 16 16
SFG Ryan Vogelsong 15 15
WSN Gio Gonzalez 13 13
DET Phil Coke 13 13
SFG Marco Scutaro 12 12
NYY Raul Ibanez 11 11
WSN Tyler Clippard 10 10
NYY David Robertson 4 4
DET Austin Jackson 3 3
BAL Chris Davis 2 2
DET Jhonny Peralta 1 1
CIN Johnny Cueto 1 1
ATL Jason Heyward -1 -1
NYY Mark Teixeira -1 -1
TXR Josh Hamilton -4 -4
SFG Brandon Belt -5 -5
BAL Adam Jones -16 -16
DET Prince Fielder 7 6 -30 -17
NYY Robinson Cano -4 -28 -32

I have to say, these numbers make no sense to me. And same with another of your posts listing the 2014 numbers.
You have some players that played all three rounds of the playoffs with four individual numbers (R1,R2,R3,Tot), while you have other players from the same team with just one number.

I pulled out just one player for example, 2012 Brandon Belt.
He played all three rounds in 2012, so he should have for scores R1, R2, R3, and Total.
I also went through his individual stats for each round, unless I'm scoring it wrong (which is very possible), I have no idea how you come up with a (-5) for any of the three rounds.
I got:
R1 - (-9)..x1=(-9)
R2 - 32...x2= 64
R3 - (-3)..x3=(-9)
Total..=46

This is just one example, there are others.....

[gsjanoff]

Greg: Forgetting scoring for the moment and just focusing on roster size, what do you think of this concept?

In an attempt to keep the existing NFBC structure for most leagues that you run, lets have a 30 man roster which includes 7 bench spots to start with. Since 10 teams make the playoffs, everyone must roster 3 players from each of the 10 teams, and field each position in doing so, with any 7 players they want on the bench, but still not to exceed 3 from any 1 team.

The 23 active guys would be eligible for scoring in the first game, however, technically speaking, only 12 players for each team can possibly achieve points since only 4 total teams are in action.

For round 2, we now have 8 teams remaining and everyone will have lost 6 players. you can now pick up 6 additional spots and in theory waive other guys if you so choose, but not exceed 4 from any 1 team. Since that would allow for 32 players, it should be easy for each team to fill their rosters however they choose, but they still have to have a legal 23 man line-up, and only those 23 will actually score during round 2, with 7 others again on the bench and eligible to be used next round at either 2X or 3X, depending on when they were added.

Anyone who was on the roster in round 1, including those on your bench, are eligible for 2X scoring. Anyone added is 1X. Again only the 23 active will be eligible for scoring and you must have a valid line-up. Depending on how your team was built, this could force people to use 1X guys over 2X guys, adding a different element to the contest.

For round 3, we are down to 4 teams, my recommendation at this point would be to allow no more than 8 from each team, but you still have to have a legal 23 man line-up rostered and only those within the 23 active will score. Those from round 1 still present are 3X, and those from round 2 still present are 2X. Newly added guys are 1X. Just like round 2, decisions will need to be made, where you may end up using a 1X or 2X guy over a 3X, if its needed to field a legal line-up.

For round 4, you can add 2 more from each team at 1X scoring and now can field any 20 spots you wish. no legal line-up required. Alternatively, you could add 4 from each team and still require a legal line-up. Everything else remains the same with guys you have had since the beginning now receiving 4X scoring.

As an added twist, if its possible to program this, in the event a player gets hurt during any 1 playoff series, and you have an eligible player at his position on your bench, you can replace the injured guy during the series.

I obviously don't know how anyone else would feel about this, but I can't see anyone coming up with a way to game the system, with this structure, and I know that is a concern of many on these boards.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Agree with Shawn that the Draftkings set up seems great for your postseason contest. Have not analyzed(nor will I) if it is a viable scoring format to equally weigh the balance of pitching versus hitting for a full season cutline contest, but I bet it would be in the ballpark. Like Shawn suggested, I would look at a partnership with Draftkings instead of fanduel. You are the place to be for full season baseball. Nobody can even remotely say they compete. Draftkings has a deal with MLB. While I am not certain that Draftkings would want to partner with a full season place, if you can show them that they will drum up some business from the full season players, I think they would be open to it. And if they somehow sponsored the cutline contest partially and had their name behind it, and their scoring behind it, I think it would be tremendous for both your game and Draftkings. Cross advertising can be a beautiful thing. Look at footballguys and FFPC. And if your game had Draftkings scoring with cross advertising, it will be simple for the Draftkings player to transition to the cutline as they already understand the scoring. And they wouldn't have to try and decipher some strange roto based points system. And they get to draft. They will like it and potentially graduate to your other formats. It makes all the sense in the world to try and partner with Draftkings since they have a deal with MLB and you dominate full season MLB.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Greg: Forgetting scoring for the moment and just focusing on roster size, what do you think of this concept?

In an attempt to keep the existing NFBC structure for most leagues that you run, lets have a 30 man roster which includes 7 bench spots to start with. Since 10 teams make the playoffs, everyone must roster 3 players from each of the 10 teams, and field each position in doing so, with any 7 players they want on the bench, but still not to exceed 3 from any 1 team.

The 23 active guys would be eligible for scoring in the first game, however, technically speaking, only 12 players for each team can possibly achieve points since only 4 total teams are in action.

For round 2, we now have 8 teams remaining and everyone will have lost 6 players. you can now pick up 6 additional spots and in theory waive other guys if you so choose, but not exceed 4 from any 1 team. Since that would allow for 32 players, it should be easy for each team to fill their rosters however they choose, but they still have to have a legal 23 man line-up, and only those 23 will actually score during round 2, with 7 others again on the bench and eligible to be used next round at either 2X or 3X, depending on when they were added.

Anyone who was on the roster in round 1, including those on your bench, are eligible for 2X scoring. Anyone added is 1X. Again only the 23 active will be eligible for scoring and you must have a valid line-up. Depending on how your team was built, this could force people to use 1X guys over 2X guys, adding a different element to the contest.

For round 3, we are down to 4 teams, my recommendation at this point would be to allow no more than 8 from each team, but you still have to have a legal 23 man line-up rostered and only those within the 23 active will score. Those from round 1 still present are 3X, and those from round 2 still present are 2X. Newly added guys are 1X. Just like round 2, decisions will need to be made, where you may end up using a 1X or 2X guy over a 3X, if its needed to field a legal line-up.

For round 4, you can add 2 more from each team at 1X scoring and now can field any 20 spots you wish. no legal line-up required. Alternatively, you could add 4 from each team and still require a legal line-up. Everything else remains the same with guys you have had since the beginning now receiving 4X scoring.

As an added twist, if its possible to program this, in the event a player gets hurt during any 1 playoff series, and you have an eligible player at his position on your bench, you can replace the injured guy during the series.

I obviously don't know how anyone else would feel about this, but I can't see anyone coming up with a way to game the system, with this structure, and I know that is a concern of many on these boards.

Think you are on the right track here. Might be coming off the rails slightly in the last two rounds on number of players etc. Not sure. But seems like the early stages of your thought process are great, if not the whole thing. Give some more thought to closing out the contest when down to 4 teams and the World Series as I bet you can figure out a tremendous solution, if you haven't already, based on he excellent thought given in general.