How Can We Make The NFBC Primetime Better?

[Greg Ambrosius]

It has been a fantastic start to the 2015 NFBC season and we wish everyone best of luck the rest of the way. We have almost $3 million in prize money on the line during these last 2+ months and we wish everyone the best from here on out.

We are proud of the record numbers we achieved this year and happy to see all of the contests with fantastic races. But unquestionably the one contest that fell short of goals this year was the NFBC Primetime, which finished with 204 teams and has a grand prize of $80,000. We are committed to this 12-team national contest and believe that hosting two live events with different league formats is the way to go. Now we just need to find the perfect solution for it.

We know the 12-team format can work as we have 1,500 teams in our Rotowire Fantasy Baseball Online Championship. But at 360 players per team, that leaves a deeper free agent pool and requires a lot of time and effort from each owner during the season. Still, the $350 price point works well there and the contest continues to grow each and every year, so we know the format works.

The rules are exactly the same for the NFBC Primetime, but at $1,500 per team it's not attracting the same type of love as the Online Championship. So is it best to change this format slightly to make the in-season management a little less time consuming? Is it the price point? What is the answer to making this a contest that can grow like we've seen happen in football? In the NFFC, we had 14-team leagues for the first five years before adding the 12-team Primetime and now the 12-team format has doubled in size compared to our 14-team Classic. But we haven't seen that trend in baseball.

I'm definitely not against tweaking the rules to make this game different from the Online Championship. I actually think a slightly different game might help here. There was a suggestion to make the roster sizes bigger, which reduces the amount of in-season time and factors in bigger benches without adding a DL list. Would the Primetime at 35 rounds and 420 total players be a more manageable game and a better game for our users? It's a question worth asking, especially with so many injuries during the season, or at least a roster size bigger than the current 30. Thoughts?

Price is a tough one because we all want a bigger carrot when battling hundreds of teams in a national contest. We've tried this contest at $500, $750, $1,000 and $1,500. We had the grand prize at $50,000 and we had it at $100,000. This year it is at $80,000. Nobody wants to spend so much time and effort on a contest that has a minimal grand prize, yet spending as much as the Main Event for lesser prizes isn't ideal, either. We understand both sides.

Those owners who participate in the NFBC Primetime at our live events or even online know that these are fun, quick drafts where everyone leaves with a pretty good team. They are really fun additional drafts to the grueling Main Events. I love the doubleheader that we're offering and there is no doubt that we are committed to this live/online format. I'm now looking for feedback to make these better and to find that happy landing spot for everyone so that we sell it out next year, no matter what final numbers we all agree to. It's no fun to plan for one number and fall far short of that with the guaranteed prizes we put out there. No fun at all.

Enjoy the All-Star break, but when you have time post your thoughts here or shoot me an email at [email protected]. We have time to think this through before launching the 2016 NFBC in November, but I want to have that strong game plan in place by then and get folks stoked about this contest again. And if we need a little extra time on Draft Day to finish these in order to make the contest more appealing to you folks, we'll do it. Let's star the discussion and let's get baseball games rolling again. Damn, this All-Star break is too long!!!

Thanks all. You're the best.

[KJ Duke]

Bump the league size from 12 to 15 teams and raise the overall prize to $200K.

I'll take 3 teams next season, maybe 4.

[Money]

Bump the league size from 12 to 15 teams and raise the overall prize to $200K.

I'll take 3 teams next season, maybe 4.

What makes this statement shocking is the fact that you've been non-competitive in the 15 team format for a few years. It may be time for you to move on to a different format before you drop down your own rankings below the best players in the game (sorry Lindy).

You are very well respected by some, certainly not by me. I'm pretty sure that this is not the type of feedback that Greg was looking for.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Bump the league size from 12 to 15 teams and raise the overall prize to $200K.

I'll take 3 teams next season, maybe 4.

I believe Greg was looking for feedback on the 12 team per league contest. This asinine post does little to accomplish that. I am thinking about it but I have not come up with anything yet Greg. Hopefully you get some good feedback. I will try to come up with some stuff that would appeal to the masses but I don't find the game terribly flawed in any way as it is.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Bump the league size from 12 to 15 teams and raise the overall prize to $200K.

I'll take 3 teams next season, maybe 4.

What makes this statement shocking is the fact that you've been non-competitive in the 15 team format for a few years. It may be time for you to move on to a different format before you drop down your own rankings below the best players in the game (sorry Lindy).

You are very well respected by some, certainly not by me. I'm pretty sure that this is not the type of feedback that Greg was looking for.

He will always be near the top Joe. The forumla will be tweaked since it is backdated data to ensure it. His rankings matter. I certainly care where I am rated in them. You know you do as well Joe. I am on pins and needles until they are released each year.

[KJ Duke]

What makes this statement shocking is the fact that you've been non-competitive in the 15 team format for a few years. It may be time for you to move on to a different format before you drop down your own rankings below the best players in the game (sorry Lindy).

I deal with jackasses like you everyday Joe, who believe what they want to believe rather than look at data that tells the truth. They couldn't do serious analysis if their life depended upon it. What I do here, what we all do here, is child's play.

[COZ]

Well that escalated quickly.

I don't think there is anything "wrong" with the Primetime and surprised the 12-team format has not gotten more love. I'm actually enjoying it because ya can actually makes moves weekly and find decent players on the waiver wire when injuries hit. In fact, I'm starting to like this more and more, and though a traditionalist and love the Main Event, the scraps on waivers in the Main gets tiresome when ya have injuries. I, for one, have never done the Primetime Live simply because I can only mentally handle one draft a day and don't like doing back to back drafts, especially after a live Main Event, but that's just me.
I really can't think of anything I'd want changed other than bigger prizes, but then that comes with higher entry fees of which I'm not in favor. Overall, I think people just saw the bigger overall prize compared to the Primetime, and at the same price points went for the bigger prize, but that is just speculation on my part.

COZ

[KJ Duke]

Well that escalated quickly.

I don't think there is anything "wrong" with the Primetime and surprised the 12-team format has not gotten more love. I'm actually enjoying it because ya can actually makes moves weekly and find decent players on the waiver wire when injuries hit. In fact, I'm starting to like this more and more, and though a traditionalist and love the Main Event, the scraps on waivers in the Main gets tiresome when ya have injuries. I, for one, have never done the Primetime Live simply because I can only mentally handle one draft a day and don't like doing back to back drafts, especially after a live Main Event, but that's just me.
I really can't think of anything I'd want changed other than bigger prizes, but then that comes with higher entry fees of which I'm not in favor. Overall, I think people just saw the bigger overall prize compared to the Primetime, and at the same price points went for the bigger prize, but that is just speculation on my part.

COZ

My point was this COZ, something I'm not sure has been considered ...

In baseball the 12-team is shrinking while the 15-team thrives, in football the 14-team is shrinking while the 12-teamer thrives.

I think it's worth asking the question of whether consolidating both of those high-stakes Main Events into one main event and offering incentives for multiple teams while jacking up the prize pool substantially wouldn't be more successful than trying to run two separate main events with smaller prize pools.

There's a huge incentive for winning both mains that is probably propping up the baseball primetime and 14-teamers in football ... offering a similar big bonus for finishing #1 and #2 in the same main event might accomplish the same, while a consolidated prize pool of $200K could go a long way towards bringing in more entries than separate $125k and $80k prizes.

[KJ Duke]

Bump the league size from 12 to 15 teams and raise the overall prize to $200K.

He will always be near the top Joe. The forumla will be tweaked since it is backdated data to ensure it.

Chad, as someone who gets really upset when the slightest perceived un-truth is lobbied at you, it's strange you would post something this stupid ... something that could be fact-checked and disproven by a monkey. The formula is simple, and it's on a sliding scale that makes past achievements worth less each season. Likewise, there's nothing black box or backdated about it. The exact ranking methodology is laid out for all to see and the data is straight from STATS; anyone with rudimentary knowledge of spreadsheets and statistics can run it themselves.

[COZ]

My point was this COZ, something I'm not sure has been considered ...

In baseball the 12-team is shrinking while the 15-team thrives, in football the 14-team is shrinking while the 12-teamer thrives.

I think it's worth asking the question of whether consolidating both of those high-stakes Main Events into one main event and offering incentives for multiple teams while jacking up the prize pool substantially wouldn't be more successful than trying to run two separate main events with smaller prize pools.

There's a huge incentive for winning both mains that is probably propping up the baseball primetime and 14-teamers in football ... offering a similar big bonus for finishing #1 and #2 in the same main event might accomplish the same, while a consolidated prize pool of $200K could go a long way towards bringing in more entries than separate $125k and $80k prizes.

LOVE that idea. Consolidation into one true MAIN EVENT in both sports.

COZ

[Money]

What makes this statement shocking is the fact that you've been non-competitive in the 15 team format for a few years. It may be time for you to move on to a different format before you drop down your own rankings below the best players in the game (sorry Lindy).

I deal with jackasses like you everyday Joe, who believe what they want to believe rather than look at data that tells the truth. They couldn't do serious analysis if their life depended upon it. What I do here, what we all do here, is child's play.

OK now, glad I got back involved. I say non-competitive and you counter with jackass. I'll attempt to stay above it. The end of your post suggests that this means nothing to you. For those competing here we could care less about your child's play. I care about competing and the size of my check at the end of the year. The amount of time you spend in Vegas for both baseball and football suggest you care a lot. I don't have to beat my chest around here about my success in life, I'm fine with just trying to compete equally with everyone regardless of public perceived status.

I sent an email to Greg with my thoughts about the Primetime. It may be a better starting point than what we started with tonight. I apologize for those following this, I'll post the email tomorrow after Greg has has a chance to read it.

[KJ Duke]

OK now, glad I got back involved. I say non-competitive and you counter with jackass. I'll attempt to stay above it. The end of your post suggests that this means nothing to you. For those competing here we could care less about your child's play. I care about competing and the size of my check at the end of the year. The amount of time you spend in Vegas for both baseball and football suggest you care a lot. I don't have to beat my chest around here about my success in life, I'm fine with just trying to compete equally with everyone regardless of public perceived status.

I sent an email to Greg with my thoughts about the Primetime. It may be a better starting point than what we started with tonight. I apologize for those following this, I'll post the email tomorrow after Greg has has a chance to read it.

And now comes the passive-aggressive bullshit, you're nothing if not predictable. Likewise, don't kid yourself, you are leading the league in narcissistic posts and taking yourself way too seriously.

[Money]

.

[Money]

OK now, glad I got back involved. I say non-competitive and you counter with jackass. I'll attempt to stay above it. The end of your post suggests that this means nothing to you. For those competing here we could care less about your child's play. I care about competing and the size of my check at the end of the year. The amount of time you spend in Vegas for both baseball and football suggest you care a lot. I don't have to beat my chest around here about my success in life, I'm fine with just trying to compete equally with everyone regardless of public perceived status.

I sent an email to Greg with my thoughts about the Primetime. It may be a better starting point than what we started with tonight. I apologize for those following this, I'll post the email tomorrow after Greg has has a chance to read it.

And now comes the passive-aggressive bullshit, you're nothing if not predictable. Likewise, don't kid yourself, you are leading the league in narcissistic posts and taking yourself way too seriously.

That's the best you got?

[Money]

He will always be near the top Joe. The forumla will be tweaked since it is backdated data to ensure it.

Chad, as someone who gets really upset when the slightest perceived un-truth is lobbied at you, it's strange you would post something this stupid ... something that could be fact-checked and disproven by a monkey. The formula is simple, and it's on a sliding scale that makes past achievements worth less each season. Likewise, there's nothing black box or backdated about it. The exact ranking methodology is laid out for all to see and the data is straight from STATS; anyone with rudimentary knowledge of spreadsheets and statistics can run it themselves.

Fucking Comical, the guy is a class act who has run circles around you for quite some time. Spend your time trying to figure how to make yourself relevant again rather than creating All Star leagues that you have no business in. Your intrical use of spreadsheets and data analysis haven't worked around here much lately.

[KJ Duke]

Fucking Comical, the guy is a class act who has run circles around you for quite some time. Spend your time trying to figure how to make yourself relevant again rather than creating All Star leagues that you have no business in.

Show me the data. The main event data is accessible to all, so show me in a statistical-significant way that you're right and I'm wrong how Chad is running circles around in 15-team events. Yeah, there's an idea ... for once in your life prove something that comes out of your flappy fat mouth.

Of course you won't, and you can't, so instead you'll just respond with another load of crap, or whine that you're a victim, or complain that everyone is cheating you because they didn't run their team to benefit you. Or all three. My money is on all three.

[KJ Duke]

2014:
Chad team pts = 3501.5, 1620.5 1572.0
Chad avg pts = 2,231, 55% percentile rank

Duke teams = 3119, 2672.5, 2463
Duke avg pts = 2752, 83% percentile rank

2013:
Chad teams = 2669.5, 2087, 1738.5
Chad avg points = 2165, 48% percentile rank

Duke teams = 3022, 2427
Duke avg pts = 2725, 78% percentile rank

2012:
Chad teams 3555, 2072.5, 1794
Chad avg pts = 2474, 70% percentile rank

Duke teams = 2981, 2488
Duke avg pts = 2735, 84% percentile rank

2011:
Chad teams 2833.5, 2193
Chad avg pts = 2513, 78% percentile rank

Duke teams = 3404.5, 2627.5
Duke avg pts = 3016, 96% percentile rank

So to sum up, in Chad's four-year career in the NFBC Main Event, he has on average out-scored 60% of all entrants, slightly above average. Over the same 4 years my average team has out-scored 85% of all entrants. But In your words he is running circles around me in these 15-team leagues and I should just give up because I can't compete anymore.

And while you're sinking your teeth into that data Joe, which I doubt you can comprehend anyway, try to find another main event player in the past 4 years whose average team has beaten 85% of the field. Maybe there is someone, or maybe even a few, but it's going to be a very small group if any at all which is why my ranking is where it is, you lying jackass.

[Fourslot40]

Don't stop this match for nuthin...

[Money]

You're absolutely right, I will not take the time to do any type of an alalysis like this as it shows me no return. Go ahead and post profit and loss for all of the teams you have mentioned here. Like I said he runs circles around you in the only statistic that matters. ROI $$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Greg Ambrosius]

And to think I was hoping to get some good input from the masses. Instead I get SNAKE vs. BWaz.

I think I'll start a second thread so that those of you who have good suggestions can post them there. Some have come in via email because they don't want to post on this poisoned thread. I'll create that thread now and list the ideas.

Thanks for whatever the hell this is here.

[TOXIC ASSETS]

What makes this statement shocking is the fact that you've been non-competitive in the 15 team format for a few years. It may be time for you to move on to a different format before you drop down your own rankings below the best players in the game (sorry Lindy).

I deal with jackasses like you everyday Joe, who believe what they want to believe rather than look at data that tells the truth. They couldn't do serious analysis if their life depended upon it. What I do here, what we all do here, is child's play.

KJ -- agree totally as I am an analyst as well. You can have all the data and a clear cut solution and you will still get people who believe exactly what they want to believe.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

2014:
Chad team pts = 3501.5, 1620.5 1572.0
Chad avg pts = 2,231, 55% percentile rank

Duke teams = 3119, 2672.5, 2463
Duke avg pts = 2752, 83% percentile rank

2013:
Chad teams = 2669.5, 2087, 1738.5
Chad avg points = 2165, 48% percentile rank

Duke teams = 3022, 2427
Duke avg pts = 2725, 78% percentile rank

2012:
Chad teams 3555, 2072.5, 1794
Chad avg pts = 2474, 70% percentile rank

Duke teams = 2981, 2488
Duke avg pts = 2735, 84% percentile rank

2011:
Chad teams 2833.5, 2193
Chad avg pts = 2513, 78% percentile rank

Duke teams = 3404.5, 2627.5
Duke avg pts = 3016, 96% percentile rank

So to sum up, in Chad's four-year career in the NFBC Main Event, he has on average out-scored 60% of all entrants, slightly above average. Over the same 4 years my average team has out-scored 85% of all entrants. But In your words he is running circles around me in these 15-team leagues and I should just give up because I can't compete anymore.

And while you're sinking your teeth into that data Joe, which I doubt you can comprehend anyway, try to find another main event player in the past 4 years whose average team has beaten 85% of the field. Maybe there is someone, or maybe even a few, but it's going to be a very small group if any at all which is why my ranking is where it is, you lying jackass.

KJ>Chad unless you care about money. KJ>Lindy as well. Delusional-maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness. I seriously hope you are doing okay KJ.