FSTA served subpoena
http://www.wsj.com/articles/fantasy-spo ... 1445030125
Nevada bans DFS
Re: Nevada bans DFS
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Re: Nevada bans DFS
By Callum Borchers and Shelley Murphy GLOBE STAFF OCTOBER 15, 2015
The Nevada Gaming Control Board, regulator of the nation’s gambling mecca, ruled Thursday that daily fantasy sports contests like those from Draft-Kings Inc. and FanDuel Inc. will be banned there unless the companies obtain gambling licenses.
The decision dealt yet another blow to a beleaguered industry that has rejected the gambling label, insisting that an exception in federal law lets fantasy sports operate as a game of skill.
DraftKings and FanDuel now confront what would appear to be a no-win proposition: Acknowledge what the casino industry has said all along, that their system of paid entries and cash prizes is, in fact, gambling, or get out of Nevada.
The two sites released separate statements Thursday night in which they said they disagreed with the gaming commission’s decision but they would temporarily suspend operations in Nevada.
“It figures Nevada would do this — casinos have been screaming for it,” said Richard McGowan, a Boston College professor who studies gambling. “I’d probably walk away from Nevada. You don’t want to admit you’re gambling. What a precedent that would set.”
View Story
Cullen: Living in a fantasy world
The state should regulate the sports betting industry now calling itself sports fantasy, and tax the bejeebers out of it.
FBI investigating DraftKings
Healey says DraftKings is legal
A month ago, at the start of the NFL season, the only battle for DraftKings and FanDuel was with one another over who would dominate the industry.
But in a rapid-fire reversal, the competing firms are now fending off serious opponents on multiple fronts: an investigation by the FBI and US attorney’s office in Boston, reports of a grand jury investigation in Florida, calls for hearings by members of Congress, and inquiries by attorneys general in New York and Massachusetts.
A fast-growing industry on the verge of mainstream popularity — backed by the likes of Major League Baseball and Comcast Inc. — suddenly faces what some specialists believe to be an existential threat.
“This is the real deal; this is Black Friday-type stuff,” said Marc Dunbar, a partner in the government relations practice at the law firm Jones Walker LLP in Tallahassee, Fla. “I worry that next football season this industry isn’t going to exist.”
The Fantasy Sports Trade Association estimates 57 million people in North America participate in some form of fantasy sports.
Several attorneys whose work centers on gambling said a recent wave of national commercials could prove to be fantasy sports’ undoing. While the system of cash contests hadn’t escaped scrutiny before then, the ad war between DraftKings and FanDuel practically begged for a closer look at their business models, which are built on a loophole in federal law.
“They invited this attention,” said Keith Miller, a law professor at Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa, who has written about gambling regulations. “Now it seems like the wheels have fallen off in a very short period of time.”
Fantasy sports contests on DraftKings and FanDuel are shorter than traditional, season-long competitions (hence the “daily” label) and typically charge entry fees for a chance to win cash prizes, some of which exceed $1 million. Players compete by creating imaginary rosters of real athletes and score points when their selections perform well in games.
Like true general managers, fantasy contestants are bound by salary caps that prevent them from simply assembling all-star teams. The key to winning is often identifying unheralded athletes who are poised to break out.
DraftKings and FanDuel maintain their contests are legal in most states because of an exemption in the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006, which distinguishes between games of chance and fantasy sports that “reflect the relative knowledge and skill of the participants.”
But the law’s coauthor, former US representative Jim Leach of Iowa, said that while it “exempted fantasy sports from one law-enforcement mechanism . . . it did not exempt fantasy activities from a spectrum of state and federal statutes related to sports betting.”
DraftKings and FanDuel already barred participation by residents of Arizona, Iowa, Louisiana, Montana, and Washington, based on strict state gambling laws. Nevada’s move could have a domino effect, starting with New Jersey, McGowan said. If enough states prohibit fantasy sports without gambling licenses, the companies may have no choice but to accept the label, he added.
Martin G. Weinberg, a Boston criminal defense lawyer who has represented Internet sports gamblers, said the federal investigation into DraftKings and other fantasy sports companies is venturing into uncharted legal territory.
“The heart of this investigation will rest in the great legal wilderness of whether the model of fantasy sports fits gambling on sports events or whether it is closer to a test of skill that’s outside the ambit of the law,” he said.
The trouble started in September, when a DraftKings employee prematurely posted information that could have given some players an advantage. That sparked speculation that insiders had access to information that could give them an edge in their own games.
Making matters worse, the same employee won $350,000 on FanDuel the same week.
The furor only escalated from there. Class-action lawsuits in Massachusetts, New York, Illinois, and Louisiana allege that ordinary players were cheated by insiders. Regulators are looking into whether there are adequate customer protections. And law enforcement agencies are probing whether the companies or their employees are violating existing laws.
“Put aside the issue of whether this is gambling,” said Senator Richard Blumenthal, a Connecticut Democrat who wrote a letter on Monday calling for the FBI and Federal Trade Commission to investigate the industry. “The allegations here are about fraud across state lines, which is prohibited whether it’s skill or chance or something else.”
The FTC would not say whether it was investigating, but confirmed it had received Blumenthal’s letter and would “review it closely.”
An aide to the Energy and Commerce Committee, which is expected to hold hearings on the fantasy industry, said the new reports “raise additional questions about the safety, fairness, and integrity of these new platforms for fan engagement” and that the committee would investigate them.
Despite big-name hires and the backing of influential investors, DraftKings and FanDuel probably face too much pressure from too many angles to avoid some degree of damage, said Daniel Wallach, a gambling and sports law attorney at Becker & Poliakoff in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
“They are surrounded,” said Wallach, who was first to report, via Twitter, that the US attorney’s office in Tampa is convening a grand jury. “A year from now, we’re going to be in a highly regulated environment, and the fantasy industry and sports leagues won’t be powerful enough to stop it.”
Major League Baseball, the National Basketball Association, and the National Hockey League all own equity stakes in either DraftKings or FanDuel, which together expect to pay out more than $3 billion in prize money this year.
Weinberg, the Boston lawyer who has defended Internet gamblers, said in the coming days, the greatest concern for fantasy sports companies may not be a prosecution, but rather the possibility that a prosecutor will try to shut them down.
“I think their bigger risk is somebody sending them a hard message that their model does violate the law, in the opinion of the government,” he said.
Under a microscope
The daily fantasy sports industry is suddenly facing scrutiny on many fronts, including:
► A ban by the State of Nevada unless they obtain gambling licenses
►An FBI investigation
►A reported federal grand jury investigation in Florida
►An inquiry by Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healey
►An inquiry by New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman
► Numerous calls by lawmakers for congressional hearings
►A call by Connecticut Senator Richard Blumenthal for a Federal Trade Commission inquiry
► Class-action lawsuits in Massachusetts, New York, Illinois, and Louisiana
Globe correspondent Dan Adams contributed to this report. Callum Borchers can be reached at [email protected]. Follow him on Twitter @callumborchers.
Another state on Friday indicated its regulators believe fantasy sports contests such as those run by Boston-based DraftKings are illegal gambling operations, as pressure from federal investigators increased on the fast-growing, online industry.
The Illinois Gaming Board told the Associated Press it believes DraftKings and FanDuel are probably illegal in that state. Illinois law considers games of “chance or skill for money or other thing of value” to be gambling, and regulators plan to ask the state’s attorney general for legal advice.
The Illinois development followed a ruling by the state of Nevada on Thursday that DraftKings and its New York-based rival FanDuel Inc. were essentially gambling operations that need a license to operate there. The companies suspended operations in the state immediately following the board’s ruling.
Also Friday, the federal prosecutor in Tampa who is investigating the industry issued a subpoena to the Fantasy Sports Trade Association, the Wall Street Journal reported late Friday. DraftKings did not comment Friday on its latest setbacks. On Thursday, both DraftKings and FanDuel issued testy statements suggesting regulators in Nevada were only acting to protect that state’s lucrative gaming industry.
View Story
Nevada orders fantasy sites to close
The regulator of the nation’s gambling mecca ordered companies like DraftKings and FanDuel to obtain licenses to continue operating.
Uncertain line between fantasy, gambling
But, in an interview with the Globe, Nevada’s top gambling official said his state banned daily fantasy sports contests because they were obviously a form of gambling that needed to be regulated — not, as DraftKings Inc. has suggested, because of pressure from the casino industry.
“It’s just kind of funny,” A.G. Burnett, chairman of the gaming board, responded to the companies’ accusations. “We really don’t do things at the behest of casinos. Often times, they’re just as angry at us as the daily fantasy guys are right now, because we’re strict regulators and enforcers.”
Burnett also said the companies’ claims that they are not in the gambling business because they run games of skill, not chance, is irrelevant under Nevada law, which considers any wagering on sports pools to be a form of betting that requires a state permit.
“They’re in the business of accepting wagers on the outcome of a day’s events,” Burnett said flatly. “This is gambling.”
“This is gambling,” said Nevada Gaming Control Board Chairman A.G. Burnett.
CATHLEEN ALLISON/AP/FILE
“This is gambling,” said Nevada Gaming Control Board Chairman A.G. Burnett.
Nevada brings to six the number of states where daily fantasy games for money are prohibited or need to be licensed. Meantime, legal analysts have been warning of a potential problem in Florida, where several of the smaller companies that provide daily fantasy sports games have withdrawn in recent months because of concerns that state’s law may also outlaw the contests.
Federal investigators in Boston have also opened a probe of DraftKings, as has the Attorney General of New York. Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healey said she is conducting “on-going conversations” with the two companies to ensure they have “strong consumer protections in place.
The mounting pressure follows allegations that company employees had improper access to statistics and other insider information that could have given them an unfair advantage over ordinary players.
Burnett acknowledged those revelations weighed on Nevada regulators. Without bringing fantasy games under Nevada’s regulatory scheme — which requires that gambling operators be found “suitable” — the board would have no authority to protect Nevada consumers who lost money playing unfair contests, he argued.
“I’d hate it if a citizen of Nevada was being harmed and turned to the board, but we had no answer,” he said. “The foremost reason for licensure is to make sure people offering things to Nevada citizens are suitable, so if there’s a problem, we as regulators have the ability to look into the problem and make the patron whole.”
Amid the legal uncertainty, casinos have largely stayed away from daily fantasy contests, not knowing whether introducing such games or even partnering with companies like DraftKings would be permitted under the conditions of their state gambling licenses. Instead, they have watched with growing frustration from the sidelines as the games exploded into a multi-billion dollar, largely unregulated industry.
Some casino executives have lashed out at daily fantasy operators.
The American Gaming Association issued a statement welcoming Nevada’s ruling on daily fantasy sports. Chris Moyer, the association’s director of media relations, said the group has been pushing attorneys general in other states to provide similar clarity.
“The ambiguity has certainly has been a little frustrating,” Moyer said in an interview. “It’s clearly an exciting popular product that millions of people enjoy.”
After Thursday’s ruling by Nevada, DraftKings insinuated that casinos bullied regulators there into cracking down on daily fantasy sports. “We understand that the gaming industry is important to Nevada and, for that reason, they are taking this exclusionary approach against the increasingly popular fantasy sports industry,” the company said in a statement.
But Burnett said Nevada casino operators have asked whether they can partner with daily fantasy sports companies or advertise their products, but did not lobby the board to shut down the sites.
One longtime gambling analyst said that while casinos have some sway with regulators, longtime operators know better than to mount a full-scale campaign aimed at influencing Nevada’s gambling board.
“Casinos pull a lot of weight, but it’s mostly passive,” said William Thompson, professor emeritus at the University of Nevada Las Vegas. “I’m sure the board got clues that this decision would be supported, but I doubt there was any outward lobbying.”
Daily fantasy companies have argued they are exempt from a federal law limiting online gambling because their products are games of skill, not chance. But Thompson took a dim view of that distinction.
“I don’t buy that at all. We regulate other sports betting, so why not fantasy?” he said. “People recognize the skill in poker, but it’s still gambling.”
Burnett acknowledged that he has received angry responses to the board’s decision from Nevada players of daily fantasy sports contests. He said he was e-mailed an expletive-laced tirade from one player who complained that his life had been ruined and that he now had nothing to do.
The Nevada Gaming Control Board, regulator of the nation’s gambling mecca, ruled Thursday that daily fantasy sports contests like those from Draft-Kings Inc. and FanDuel Inc. will be banned there unless the companies obtain gambling licenses.
The decision dealt yet another blow to a beleaguered industry that has rejected the gambling label, insisting that an exception in federal law lets fantasy sports operate as a game of skill.
DraftKings and FanDuel now confront what would appear to be a no-win proposition: Acknowledge what the casino industry has said all along, that their system of paid entries and cash prizes is, in fact, gambling, or get out of Nevada.
The two sites released separate statements Thursday night in which they said they disagreed with the gaming commission’s decision but they would temporarily suspend operations in Nevada.
“It figures Nevada would do this — casinos have been screaming for it,” said Richard McGowan, a Boston College professor who studies gambling. “I’d probably walk away from Nevada. You don’t want to admit you’re gambling. What a precedent that would set.”
View Story
Cullen: Living in a fantasy world
The state should regulate the sports betting industry now calling itself sports fantasy, and tax the bejeebers out of it.
FBI investigating DraftKings
Healey says DraftKings is legal
A month ago, at the start of the NFL season, the only battle for DraftKings and FanDuel was with one another over who would dominate the industry.
But in a rapid-fire reversal, the competing firms are now fending off serious opponents on multiple fronts: an investigation by the FBI and US attorney’s office in Boston, reports of a grand jury investigation in Florida, calls for hearings by members of Congress, and inquiries by attorneys general in New York and Massachusetts.
A fast-growing industry on the verge of mainstream popularity — backed by the likes of Major League Baseball and Comcast Inc. — suddenly faces what some specialists believe to be an existential threat.
“This is the real deal; this is Black Friday-type stuff,” said Marc Dunbar, a partner in the government relations practice at the law firm Jones Walker LLP in Tallahassee, Fla. “I worry that next football season this industry isn’t going to exist.”
The Fantasy Sports Trade Association estimates 57 million people in North America participate in some form of fantasy sports.
Several attorneys whose work centers on gambling said a recent wave of national commercials could prove to be fantasy sports’ undoing. While the system of cash contests hadn’t escaped scrutiny before then, the ad war between DraftKings and FanDuel practically begged for a closer look at their business models, which are built on a loophole in federal law.
“They invited this attention,” said Keith Miller, a law professor at Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa, who has written about gambling regulations. “Now it seems like the wheels have fallen off in a very short period of time.”
Fantasy sports contests on DraftKings and FanDuel are shorter than traditional, season-long competitions (hence the “daily” label) and typically charge entry fees for a chance to win cash prizes, some of which exceed $1 million. Players compete by creating imaginary rosters of real athletes and score points when their selections perform well in games.
Like true general managers, fantasy contestants are bound by salary caps that prevent them from simply assembling all-star teams. The key to winning is often identifying unheralded athletes who are poised to break out.
DraftKings and FanDuel maintain their contests are legal in most states because of an exemption in the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006, which distinguishes between games of chance and fantasy sports that “reflect the relative knowledge and skill of the participants.”
But the law’s coauthor, former US representative Jim Leach of Iowa, said that while it “exempted fantasy sports from one law-enforcement mechanism . . . it did not exempt fantasy activities from a spectrum of state and federal statutes related to sports betting.”
DraftKings and FanDuel already barred participation by residents of Arizona, Iowa, Louisiana, Montana, and Washington, based on strict state gambling laws. Nevada’s move could have a domino effect, starting with New Jersey, McGowan said. If enough states prohibit fantasy sports without gambling licenses, the companies may have no choice but to accept the label, he added.
Martin G. Weinberg, a Boston criminal defense lawyer who has represented Internet sports gamblers, said the federal investigation into DraftKings and other fantasy sports companies is venturing into uncharted legal territory.
“The heart of this investigation will rest in the great legal wilderness of whether the model of fantasy sports fits gambling on sports events or whether it is closer to a test of skill that’s outside the ambit of the law,” he said.
The trouble started in September, when a DraftKings employee prematurely posted information that could have given some players an advantage. That sparked speculation that insiders had access to information that could give them an edge in their own games.
Making matters worse, the same employee won $350,000 on FanDuel the same week.
The furor only escalated from there. Class-action lawsuits in Massachusetts, New York, Illinois, and Louisiana allege that ordinary players were cheated by insiders. Regulators are looking into whether there are adequate customer protections. And law enforcement agencies are probing whether the companies or their employees are violating existing laws.
“Put aside the issue of whether this is gambling,” said Senator Richard Blumenthal, a Connecticut Democrat who wrote a letter on Monday calling for the FBI and Federal Trade Commission to investigate the industry. “The allegations here are about fraud across state lines, which is prohibited whether it’s skill or chance or something else.”
The FTC would not say whether it was investigating, but confirmed it had received Blumenthal’s letter and would “review it closely.”
An aide to the Energy and Commerce Committee, which is expected to hold hearings on the fantasy industry, said the new reports “raise additional questions about the safety, fairness, and integrity of these new platforms for fan engagement” and that the committee would investigate them.
Despite big-name hires and the backing of influential investors, DraftKings and FanDuel probably face too much pressure from too many angles to avoid some degree of damage, said Daniel Wallach, a gambling and sports law attorney at Becker & Poliakoff in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
“They are surrounded,” said Wallach, who was first to report, via Twitter, that the US attorney’s office in Tampa is convening a grand jury. “A year from now, we’re going to be in a highly regulated environment, and the fantasy industry and sports leagues won’t be powerful enough to stop it.”
Major League Baseball, the National Basketball Association, and the National Hockey League all own equity stakes in either DraftKings or FanDuel, which together expect to pay out more than $3 billion in prize money this year.
Weinberg, the Boston lawyer who has defended Internet gamblers, said in the coming days, the greatest concern for fantasy sports companies may not be a prosecution, but rather the possibility that a prosecutor will try to shut them down.
“I think their bigger risk is somebody sending them a hard message that their model does violate the law, in the opinion of the government,” he said.
Under a microscope
The daily fantasy sports industry is suddenly facing scrutiny on many fronts, including:
► A ban by the State of Nevada unless they obtain gambling licenses
►An FBI investigation
►A reported federal grand jury investigation in Florida
►An inquiry by Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healey
►An inquiry by New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman
► Numerous calls by lawmakers for congressional hearings
►A call by Connecticut Senator Richard Blumenthal for a Federal Trade Commission inquiry
► Class-action lawsuits in Massachusetts, New York, Illinois, and Louisiana
Globe correspondent Dan Adams contributed to this report. Callum Borchers can be reached at [email protected]. Follow him on Twitter @callumborchers.
Another state on Friday indicated its regulators believe fantasy sports contests such as those run by Boston-based DraftKings are illegal gambling operations, as pressure from federal investigators increased on the fast-growing, online industry.
The Illinois Gaming Board told the Associated Press it believes DraftKings and FanDuel are probably illegal in that state. Illinois law considers games of “chance or skill for money or other thing of value” to be gambling, and regulators plan to ask the state’s attorney general for legal advice.
The Illinois development followed a ruling by the state of Nevada on Thursday that DraftKings and its New York-based rival FanDuel Inc. were essentially gambling operations that need a license to operate there. The companies suspended operations in the state immediately following the board’s ruling.
Also Friday, the federal prosecutor in Tampa who is investigating the industry issued a subpoena to the Fantasy Sports Trade Association, the Wall Street Journal reported late Friday. DraftKings did not comment Friday on its latest setbacks. On Thursday, both DraftKings and FanDuel issued testy statements suggesting regulators in Nevada were only acting to protect that state’s lucrative gaming industry.
View Story
Nevada orders fantasy sites to close
The regulator of the nation’s gambling mecca ordered companies like DraftKings and FanDuel to obtain licenses to continue operating.
Uncertain line between fantasy, gambling
But, in an interview with the Globe, Nevada’s top gambling official said his state banned daily fantasy sports contests because they were obviously a form of gambling that needed to be regulated — not, as DraftKings Inc. has suggested, because of pressure from the casino industry.
“It’s just kind of funny,” A.G. Burnett, chairman of the gaming board, responded to the companies’ accusations. “We really don’t do things at the behest of casinos. Often times, they’re just as angry at us as the daily fantasy guys are right now, because we’re strict regulators and enforcers.”
Burnett also said the companies’ claims that they are not in the gambling business because they run games of skill, not chance, is irrelevant under Nevada law, which considers any wagering on sports pools to be a form of betting that requires a state permit.
“They’re in the business of accepting wagers on the outcome of a day’s events,” Burnett said flatly. “This is gambling.”
“This is gambling,” said Nevada Gaming Control Board Chairman A.G. Burnett.
CATHLEEN ALLISON/AP/FILE
“This is gambling,” said Nevada Gaming Control Board Chairman A.G. Burnett.
Nevada brings to six the number of states where daily fantasy games for money are prohibited or need to be licensed. Meantime, legal analysts have been warning of a potential problem in Florida, where several of the smaller companies that provide daily fantasy sports games have withdrawn in recent months because of concerns that state’s law may also outlaw the contests.
Federal investigators in Boston have also opened a probe of DraftKings, as has the Attorney General of New York. Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healey said she is conducting “on-going conversations” with the two companies to ensure they have “strong consumer protections in place.
The mounting pressure follows allegations that company employees had improper access to statistics and other insider information that could have given them an unfair advantage over ordinary players.
Burnett acknowledged those revelations weighed on Nevada regulators. Without bringing fantasy games under Nevada’s regulatory scheme — which requires that gambling operators be found “suitable” — the board would have no authority to protect Nevada consumers who lost money playing unfair contests, he argued.
“I’d hate it if a citizen of Nevada was being harmed and turned to the board, but we had no answer,” he said. “The foremost reason for licensure is to make sure people offering things to Nevada citizens are suitable, so if there’s a problem, we as regulators have the ability to look into the problem and make the patron whole.”
Amid the legal uncertainty, casinos have largely stayed away from daily fantasy contests, not knowing whether introducing such games or even partnering with companies like DraftKings would be permitted under the conditions of their state gambling licenses. Instead, they have watched with growing frustration from the sidelines as the games exploded into a multi-billion dollar, largely unregulated industry.
Some casino executives have lashed out at daily fantasy operators.
The American Gaming Association issued a statement welcoming Nevada’s ruling on daily fantasy sports. Chris Moyer, the association’s director of media relations, said the group has been pushing attorneys general in other states to provide similar clarity.
“The ambiguity has certainly has been a little frustrating,” Moyer said in an interview. “It’s clearly an exciting popular product that millions of people enjoy.”
After Thursday’s ruling by Nevada, DraftKings insinuated that casinos bullied regulators there into cracking down on daily fantasy sports. “We understand that the gaming industry is important to Nevada and, for that reason, they are taking this exclusionary approach against the increasingly popular fantasy sports industry,” the company said in a statement.
But Burnett said Nevada casino operators have asked whether they can partner with daily fantasy sports companies or advertise their products, but did not lobby the board to shut down the sites.
One longtime gambling analyst said that while casinos have some sway with regulators, longtime operators know better than to mount a full-scale campaign aimed at influencing Nevada’s gambling board.
“Casinos pull a lot of weight, but it’s mostly passive,” said William Thompson, professor emeritus at the University of Nevada Las Vegas. “I’m sure the board got clues that this decision would be supported, but I doubt there was any outward lobbying.”
Daily fantasy companies have argued they are exempt from a federal law limiting online gambling because their products are games of skill, not chance. But Thompson took a dim view of that distinction.
“I don’t buy that at all. We regulate other sports betting, so why not fantasy?” he said. “People recognize the skill in poker, but it’s still gambling.”
Burnett acknowledged that he has received angry responses to the board’s decision from Nevada players of daily fantasy sports contests. He said he was e-mailed an expletive-laced tirade from one player who complained that his life had been ruined and that he now had nothing to do.
Re: Nevada bans DFS
This might be many of us, without fantasy sports....Outlaw wrote:
Burnett acknowledged that he has received angry responses to the board’s decision from Nevada players of daily fantasy sports contests. He said he was e-mailed an expletive-laced tirade from one player who complained that his life had been ruined and that he now had nothing to do.
-
Fourslot40
- Posts: 471
- Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:00 pm
Re: Nevada bans DFS
The fantasy sports population is so large that I do not see it going away entirely. Not only from a playing standpoint, but perhaps more so from an interests standpoint. The NFL, MLB, DirecTV, ESPN, Yahoo... Fantasy sports has positively impacted sports leagues and TV ratings. Players are not the only ones that want to see it stay, which is a good thing for the players.BK METS wrote:This might be many of us, without fantasy sports....Outlaw wrote:
Burnett acknowledged that he has received angry responses to the board’s decision from Nevada players of daily fantasy sports contests. He said he was e-mailed an expletive-laced tirade from one player who complained that his life had been ruined and that he now had nothing to do.
Re: Nevada bans DFS
Ultimately, the fear is that politicians will take money out of the fantasy sports equation.Fourslot40 wrote:The fantasy sports population is so large that I do not see it going away entirely. Not only from a playing standpoint, but perhaps more so from an interests standpoint. The NFL, MLB, DirecTV, ESPN, Yahoo... Fantasy sports has positively impacted sports leagues and TV ratings. Players are not the only ones that want to see it stay, which is a good thing for the players.BK METS wrote:This might be many of us, without fantasy sports....Outlaw wrote:
Burnett acknowledged that he has received angry responses to the board’s decision from Nevada players of daily fantasy sports contests. He said he was e-mailed an expletive-laced tirade from one player who complained that his life had been ruined and that he now had nothing to do.
Free leagues would probably not interest a soul reading this.
On my tombstone-
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!
Re: Nevada bans DFS
They can shut down DFS as long as we're allowed seasonal I could care less. DK wants to blame the Nevada gaming board but really they should look in the mirror. I enjoy DFS but If they had regulations in place that they should have from the beginning including employees aren't permitted to play at any site that idiot never blows the doors off this thing winning the $350 k and also those commercials that are constantly on rubbing it in the publics face of I invested $30 dollars and won a billion dollars or whatever. It's ridiculous not to think this is going to piss people off and open yourself up to issues. In my opinion DK and FD did things to potentially dig their own grave. I'm involved with the West Virginia lottery by this I mean they allow establishments to have up to 5 slot machines and its all regulated by the state. I have six of these establishments and guess what my number one rule is the following: My employees AND any family member or theirs are NOT permitted to wager in my establishments. It's not a state law it's my rule and I'm just a dumb hick from West Virginia....
Re: Nevada bans DFS
DFS NOT THE ONLY GAMBLING RELATED STORY:
Families Outraged After Illinois Fails to Pay Out $288 Million in Lottery Winnings
Lottery winners in Illinois may have hit the jackpot - but they have not been paid.
The state recently announced that it was not paying out any winnings worth more than $600 until its budget crisis is resolved - but it's still running TV ads promoting the lottery.
An attorney representing some of the winners, Tom Zimmerman, has said there is a staggering $288 million in winnings waiting to be paid out.
One winner, Susan Rick, told INSIDE EDITION: “We won. We finally can have a comfortable life. Suddenly you're gonna the rug out from underneath us. We had a ticket for $250,000.”
A group of Chicago city employees had joined a lotto pool and won a million dollars - but they still haven’t seen a penny of it either.
Rhonda Rasche, a 49-year-old hospital clerk, said that after winning $50,000 in a scratch-off lotto, officials told her she'd receive a check in the mail in four to six weeks. That was a few months ago.
“I've been waiting for a check for $50,000,” she said.
Rhonda has joined the other lotto winners who are suing to get their money.
Zimmerman, their attorney, said: “If any private business would engage in this kind of conduct selling tickets and not paying out the winner. The state would shut them down and indict them for fraud."
Families Outraged After Illinois Fails to Pay Out $288 Million in Lottery Winnings
Lottery winners in Illinois may have hit the jackpot - but they have not been paid.
The state recently announced that it was not paying out any winnings worth more than $600 until its budget crisis is resolved - but it's still running TV ads promoting the lottery.
An attorney representing some of the winners, Tom Zimmerman, has said there is a staggering $288 million in winnings waiting to be paid out.
One winner, Susan Rick, told INSIDE EDITION: “We won. We finally can have a comfortable life. Suddenly you're gonna the rug out from underneath us. We had a ticket for $250,000.”
A group of Chicago city employees had joined a lotto pool and won a million dollars - but they still haven’t seen a penny of it either.
Rhonda Rasche, a 49-year-old hospital clerk, said that after winning $50,000 in a scratch-off lotto, officials told her she'd receive a check in the mail in four to six weeks. That was a few months ago.
“I've been waiting for a check for $50,000,” she said.
Rhonda has joined the other lotto winners who are suing to get their money.
Zimmerman, their attorney, said: “If any private business would engage in this kind of conduct selling tickets and not paying out the winner. The state would shut them down and indict them for fraud."
Re: Nevada bans DFS
It seems like they're saying that all gaming is gambling whether it involves random chance or skill.Outlaw wrote: DraftKings and FanDuel now confront what would appear to be a no-win proposition: Acknowledge what the casino industry has said all along, that their system of paid entries and cash prizes is, in fact, gambling, or get out of Nevada.
Picking numbers for the Powerball lottery is gambling. Handicapping horse racing is skill. If the information that 91% of DFS profits are won by fewer than 2% of all participants is accurate, it would follow that it's not random chance but skill that defines these games.
Would it be fair to DraftKings and FanDuel to regulate them no differently than the online horse racing gaming industry?
.
The Bill Buckner of FAAB
Deadheadz
Deadheadz
Re: Nevada bans DFS
I applaud NV's bold and clearly impartial stance on DFS, for several reasons*, some of which are enumerated below:
(1) wagering money, be it upon skill or luck based outcomes, is sinful, and
(2) the U.S. citizenry, at the individual level, should not be (and clearly is not) entitled, legally or otherwise, to self-determine how to utilize/spend their "personal money," and,
(3) despite my 2800% ROI this year on Fanduel (the raw numbers are much less impressive), the shit is just stupid and boring to me.
might get exciting if the feds freeze the funds. they've done it before under similar-ish circumstances (i've cashed everything out at this point).
*none of which apply to wealthy political donors
(1) wagering money, be it upon skill or luck based outcomes, is sinful, and
(2) the U.S. citizenry, at the individual level, should not be (and clearly is not) entitled, legally or otherwise, to self-determine how to utilize/spend their "personal money," and,
(3) despite my 2800% ROI this year on Fanduel (the raw numbers are much less impressive), the shit is just stupid and boring to me.
might get exciting if the feds freeze the funds. they've done it before under similar-ish circumstances (i've cashed everything out at this point).
*none of which apply to wealthy political donors
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Greg Ambrosius
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Re: Nevada bans DFS
I'm not quite sure why some in our industry are applauding Nevada's stand against DFS. We can all fault the advertising campaign by Fanduel and Draft Kings that brought this attention. We can all fault the DFS market for growing too big too fast, thus creating a recipe of distrust and government intervention. And we can all fault the players, who became blind to the money grab and found ways to prey on the system.DOUGHBOYS wrote:Maybe the yearly game should be distancing itself from the daily game. Not standing beside it.
But deep down, this is a fantastic game that rewards skill if safeguards are put in place and it has created a cottage industry that is good for fantasy sports, good for the leagues, good for mass media, good in a lot of ways for those who enjoy sports. It just needs safeguards in place and ways to prove this is a game of skill to legislators.
Take our NFBC/Fanduel Weekly Contest. By limiting owners to only 3 teams per week, we finished with 20 different winners in 20 weeks. It was a fun, safe contest that proved the format is tough to dominate. Nobody got hurt, it was a fair contest and it added enjoyment to a Tuesday night of baseball. Limiting the number of entries per person could easily make DFS a stronger product, albeit with less revenue and smaller grand prizes. First step.
Scripting is another area that needs to be addressed. Showing percentage owned obviously needs to be addressed. To me, it's a good game that could easily be improved with safeguards and guidelines in place whether by the government or by a third-party industry regulator. But maybe Todd is right: Maybe that ship has sailed already.
Personally, I think the people have spoken with their wallets. They like this game format. They want it to stay. But they want safeguards. And the mass marketing needed to appease the Venture Capital investors has to slow down.
But I see a product that is a great test of skill. I hope it survives. I really do.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
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Greg Ambrosius
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Re: Nevada bans DFS
I think everyone should read the Nevada Attorney General's opinion of DFS:
http://www.legalsportsreport.com/wp-con ... AG-DFS.pdf
His thoughts on the skill vs. chance for DFS is interesting, for sure.
"As a preliminary matter, there may not need to be a determination of skill. As skill is generally understood when analyzing a lottery, the skill at issue is the skill of the individuals determining the actual outcome of the event. With daily fantasy sports, although the owners select a lineup for their simulated team, the owners have no ability to control how many points their simulated teams receive from an actual player’s performance. The actual players in the actual games control their own performance. As a result, after an owner places a bet and sets a final lineup, the owner simply waits to see what happens based upon the performance of the actual players involved. Given that the owners’ skills do not determine the outcome of the simulated games, there may be no skill involved as that term is traditionally understood in the context of lotteries. If that is the case, then daily fantasy sports constitute lotteries and are prohibited in Nevada."
http://www.legalsportsreport.com/wp-con ... AG-DFS.pdf
His thoughts on the skill vs. chance for DFS is interesting, for sure.
"As a preliminary matter, there may not need to be a determination of skill. As skill is generally understood when analyzing a lottery, the skill at issue is the skill of the individuals determining the actual outcome of the event. With daily fantasy sports, although the owners select a lineup for their simulated team, the owners have no ability to control how many points their simulated teams receive from an actual player’s performance. The actual players in the actual games control their own performance. As a result, after an owner places a bet and sets a final lineup, the owner simply waits to see what happens based upon the performance of the actual players involved. Given that the owners’ skills do not determine the outcome of the simulated games, there may be no skill involved as that term is traditionally understood in the context of lotteries. If that is the case, then daily fantasy sports constitute lotteries and are prohibited in Nevada."
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
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Greg Ambrosius
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Re: Nevada bans DFS
I'll make one last point and then leave this thread:
Today I'm heading to Lambeau Field to enjoy a day of football. I'll spend more with the family on game tickets than most people will spend sitting at home watching all of the games and playing a few DFS lineups. We both are choosing our forms of entertainment today the way we'd like. It's the American way. I'll spend more than most people, but that's my choice.
I'm not sure we need the government to tell us how to spend our entertainment dollars. Now there's no doubt they need to protect us from unscrupulous business practices and from illegal actions. We can all agree to that. But this is an industry that is six years old, had the leagues and mass media companies investing in it for years and nobody said anything about the business model. Now it's on every state's radar as an illegal activity?
It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but if DFS can be attacked so quickly what game of skill is next?
Today I'm heading to Lambeau Field to enjoy a day of football. I'll spend more with the family on game tickets than most people will spend sitting at home watching all of the games and playing a few DFS lineups. We both are choosing our forms of entertainment today the way we'd like. It's the American way. I'll spend more than most people, but that's my choice.
I'm not sure we need the government to tell us how to spend our entertainment dollars. Now there's no doubt they need to protect us from unscrupulous business practices and from illegal actions. We can all agree to that. But this is an industry that is six years old, had the leagues and mass media companies investing in it for years and nobody said anything about the business model. Now it's on every state's radar as an illegal activity?
It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but if DFS can be attacked so quickly what game of skill is next?
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Re: Nevada bans DFS
wonder if he understands "setting a final lineup" could involve countless hours of prep, research, etcGreg Ambrosius wrote:As a result, after an owner places a bet and sets a final lineup, the owner simply waits to see what happens based upon the performance of the actual players involved.
simple way to solve this. let the AG play in 100 leagues against me next year and see how many he wins
Re: Nevada bans DFS
me thinks you have some NFBC players who could give very good testimony on the "skill" side of the equationGreg Ambrosius wrote: It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but if DFS can be attacked so quickly what game of skill is next?
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Fourslot40
- Posts: 471
- Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:00 pm
Re: Nevada bans DFS
Operation. Nobody can get the bone without hitting that darn metal siding. Should be investigated.Greg Ambrosius wrote:
It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but if DFS can be attacked so quickly what game of skill is next?
Have fun at the game Greg! Should be a lot of points scored.
Re: Nevada bans DFS
I don't think many are applauding Nevada's stand against DFS. Rather, they (and I) are vexed that these two companies have made so much loud, bad noise that it has woken up these politicians.Greg Ambrosius wrote: I'm not quite sure why some in our industry are applauding Nevada's stand against DFS. We can all fault the advertising campaign by Fanduel and Draft Kings that brought this attention. We can all fault the DFS market for growing too big too fast, thus creating a recipe of distrust and government intervention. And we can all fault the players, who became blind to the money grab and found ways to prey on the system.
Those faults are serious faults.
They have put money in fantasy sports as a whole, in danger.
Nobody wants that.
The daily game can be a good game. Millions enjoy it. True.
These two companies have to quit dumping so much of their backing in advertising and start streamlining their businesses and clean their backyards.
If it is not done correctly and negative stories persist, we all are the worst for it.
On my tombstone-
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!
Re: Nevada bans DFS
It was the insider info and employees using it unfairly that brought this on and raised other issues, e.g. past posting, etc. They have to prove their pools are tamper proof now.
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King of Queens
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Re: Nevada bans DFS
FSTA pulls their January conference from Vegas:Greg Ambrosius wrote:I sure am. We can boycott them all we want over this, but the bottom line is that Nevada residents will have to make the noise to get DFS back in the state. If we clean up our house there's no reason why every state wouldn't want to move forward with DFS. It's on us as an industry to do just that.anpyanks wrote:Greg,
Are u really still gonna have drafts in Las Vegas? They want to try to destroy fantasy sports (I know it's daily but still) then they can go f--k themselves.
Nevada is protecting its own interests, not doing what's morally right. If they decide to shut down season-long games, then obviously that changes everything. But right now the Bellagio is still our home for 2016.
http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/139 ... nce-nevada
Re: Nevada bans DFS
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Captain Hook
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Re: Nevada bans DFS
not that expensive IIRC ... BUT if they register for a gaming license in Nevada (or any other stats that says they need it) they are clearly admitting that DFS is gamblingDonacion wrote:Not banned but requires a license. My understanding from friends in casino industry expensive.
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Greg Ambrosius
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Re: Nevada bans DFS
Let's see how the New York Times covers this story now. They termed this as "insider trading" and it became the Chris Mortenson "Deflategate" wildfire story. No doubt there are issues in DFS that need regulating, but the non-facts have taken on a life of their own.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Re: Nevada bans DFS
FRONT PAGE:
DAN KENYON ACCUSED OF MURDER MOST FOUL!!!
back page, a week later....
'kenyon exonerated'
Damage done
On my tombstone-
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!
Re: Nevada bans DFS
Be careful what you ask for CONgress and states.. Kill fantasy sports (or make the price of entry too high) and fan interest in MLB, NFL, NBA goes down significantly...as will the leagues' profits.
I'm guessing leagues will have powerful lobbyist who make it impossible to kill "season long" fantasy sports
I'm guessing leagues will have powerful lobbyist who make it impossible to kill "season long" fantasy sports
Re: Nevada bans DFS
A law firm hired by the company says everything was on the "up and up". LOLGreg Ambrosius wrote:Let's see how the New York Times covers this story now. They termed this as "insider trading" and it became the Chris Mortenson "Deflategate" wildfire story. No doubt there are issues in DFS that need regulating, but the non-facts have taken on a life of their own.
Re: Nevada bans DFS
Got this from Zachs stock research.
Is the Regulation Good for Casino Companies?
The shutdown can prove beneficial for casino companies like Las Vegas Sands Corp. LVS, Wynn Resorts Ltd. WYNN and MGM Resorts that have properties in the region. People would now move to the casinos to try their fortunes. An increase in footfall at the casinos would prove beneficial as these are bearing the negative impact of a sluggish environment in Macau, another key operating destination for these companies. Revenues in Macau have not increased for 16 consecutive months. (Read: Gaming Stocks in Focus as Macau September Revenues Fall)
In fact, FanDuel has reportedly stated that it is disappointed by the board’s action and believes that only the casinos in Nevada are the ones that will be benefitted by the action.
Is the Regulation Good for Casino Companies?
The shutdown can prove beneficial for casino companies like Las Vegas Sands Corp. LVS, Wynn Resorts Ltd. WYNN and MGM Resorts that have properties in the region. People would now move to the casinos to try their fortunes. An increase in footfall at the casinos would prove beneficial as these are bearing the negative impact of a sluggish environment in Macau, another key operating destination for these companies. Revenues in Macau have not increased for 16 consecutive months. (Read: Gaming Stocks in Focus as Macau September Revenues Fall)
In fact, FanDuel has reportedly stated that it is disappointed by the board’s action and believes that only the casinos in Nevada are the ones that will be benefitted by the action.