What Is The Latest On The Cutline Championship?

[DOUGHBOYS]

Creating an NFBC-style game for our veterans who don't like long drafts, who don't like FAAB, who don't like this format is a mistake.

I'm confused by this statement. Wasn't the intention of this contest to appeal to the DFS crowd? If so, who cares what (no offense) KJ, Zola, Doughy or ANY of us have to say? Of course you're going to meet resistance from this group! You've given us oatmeal with raisins for the past 13 years -- and now you want to add nuts????

Exactly, Champ!
We all want the best for every game.
We're all on the same side only with different ideas in how to proceed.
Sometimes, folks forget that.

[Yah Mule]

I think reducing the number of FAAB periods is a compromise that deserves consideration. I would say you need at least two, though. One will lead to situations where several teams max bid for Carlos Correa and throw out token dollar bids for the other 14 spots. This means the team with the worst record can ensure themselves the best player. Since you're only going 450 players deep in a ten team league (equal to 30 rounds in a 15 team league), you could still acquire quality players for dollar bids. With two FAAB periods, that strategy is still technically viable, but I believe it would be less desirable.

[Glenneration X]

EDIT- We have more DC leagues that any other concept.
The reason is clear, EVERYBODY likes to draft. The DC concept is perfect in that we can draft to our hearts content, knowing that the FAAB monster will not bite us when the season begin.
I can see Cutlines sharing the same type of popularity.
Although they will be compared to DC Leagues in that that they are both DAFT (Draft and Forget) Leagues, they will have differences that will set them apart from DC leagues in that it would be
1. A fast draft
2. A ten team draft
3. Only 400 (40 rounds) or 500 (50 rounds) players would be drafted
4. Both having an advantage over DAMN (Draft and Manage) leagues

And let's not forget the biggest difference that would set the Cutline apart from DC's, no lineups, which to me is the biggest detriment to DC's.

Part of the reason DC's are extremely popular is because they are inexpensive and have no FAAB. I would bet the Cutlines by sharing these aspects would be just as popular, but possibly even more so because of the no lineups.

These are being sold as impulse drafts with no in-season managing involved. Trust me, the first time someone who's bought ten or more of these on "impulse" has to go through another ten or more teams worth of free agent reviews that 1st FAAB week, they'll make a decision not to be as impulsive next season.

PS... A singular FAAB period might be problematic because everyone would use their entire FAAB that week. There would be no need to budget for another FAAB. True, everyone might disperse their available FAAB differently across the multiple options available. However, if there were a Carlos Correa or a Jose Fernandez type, or God forbid a Harvey, DeGrom, Syndegaard, or Matz , there might be multiple all-in bids.

[ToddZ]

With drafts starting in January and this being an overall contest, a FAAB session before opening day is critical.

Then it's a matter of one or two more.

[KJ Duke]

I'm confused by this statement. Wasn't the intention of this contest to appeal to the DFS crowd? If so, who cares what (no offense) KJ, Zola, Doughy or ANY of us have to say? Of course you're going to meet resistance from this group! You've given us oatmeal with raisins for the past 13 years -- and now you want to add nuts????

As I understood it, the intent was to replicate football's cutline success with broad appeal to both vets and newcomers. An easy, low-cost draft for vets with minimal time commitment, and shallower leagues appealing to novice/crossover players used to playing in 10 or 12 team lges rather than 15s.

[Glenneration X]

With drafts starting in January and this being an overall contest, a FAAB session before opening day is critical.

Then it's a matter of one or two more.

Is it critical for DC's?

[Glenneration X]

I'm confused by this statement. Wasn't the intention of this contest to appeal to the DFS crowd? If so, who cares what (no offense) KJ, Zola, Doughy or ANY of us have to say? Of course you're going to meet resistance from this group! You've given us oatmeal with raisins for the past 13 years -- and now you want to add nuts????

As I understood it, the intent was to replicate football's cutline success with broad appeal to both vets and newcomers. An easy, low-cost draft for vets with minimal time commitment, and shallower leagues appealing to novice/crossover players used to playing in 10 or 12 team lges rather than 15s.

If this contest is being designed to appeal to the DFS crowd, I think FAAB is even a bigger mistake.

[ToddZ]

With drafts starting in January and this being an overall contest, a FAAB session before opening day is critical.

Then it's a matter of one or two more.

Is it critical for DC's?

DC's draft 50. The initial cutline draft is 30.

So no, not critical for DC's.

[Glenneration X]

With drafts starting in January and this being an overall contest, a FAAB session before opening day is critical.

Then it's a matter of one or two more.

Is it critical for DC's?

DC's draft 50. The initial cutline draft is 30.

So no, not critical for DC's.

That's why increasing the roster size for Cutlines was a good thought.

[KJ Duke]

With drafts starting in January and this being an overall contest, a FAAB session before opening day is critical.

Then it's a matter of one or two more.

Is it critical for DC's?

DC's draft 50. The initial cutline draft is 30.

So no, not critical for DC's.

Is there anyone who'd really rather spend an extra hour doing FAAB than an extra hour drafting another 10 rounds or so?

If we start with 40-45 players we can knock out at least one FAAB and probably two.

[ToddZ]

Is there anyone who'd really rather spend an extra hour doing FAAB than an extra hour drafting another 10 rounds or so?

If we start with 40-45 players we can knock out at least one FAAB and probably two.

I think we can draft 30 and eliminate a FAAB

35 could work to keep it reasonably short.

[KJ Duke]

Is there anyone who'd really rather spend an extra hour doing FAAB than an extra hour drafting another 10 rounds or so?

If we start with 40-45 players we can knock out at least one FAAB and probably two.

I think we can draft 30 and eliminate a FAAB

35 could work to keep it reasonably short.

How about If we did 35 rds and had 2 FAABs with no drops (expanding rosters to 40 then 45), that actually simplifies FAAB because we don't have to think about who to drop. And 35 players should be enough to get us to week 4.

[ToddZ]

That's why increasing the roster size for Cutlines was a good thought.

I think regardless, if there's FAAB in the contest then those drafting in Jan should be on as equal footing as possible compared to those drafting in March which is accomplished (mostly) via pre opening day FAAB. All the perceived relevant players will be on a cutline roster opening day.

[KJ Duke]

That's why increasing the roster size for Cutlines was a good thought.

I think regardless, if there's FAAB in the contest then those drafting in Jan should be on as equal footing as possible compared to those drafting in March which is accomplished (mostly) via pre opening day FAAB. All the perceived relevant players will be on a cutline roster opening day.

Fair point, but it would be hard to run a FAAB when everyone is drafting for the main event lges in the final week.

[ToddZ]

Is there anyone who'd really rather spend an extra hour doing FAAB than an extra hour drafting another 10 rounds or so?

If we start with 40-45 players we can knock out at least one FAAB and probably two.

I think we can draft 30 and eliminate a FAAB

35 could work to keep it reasonably short.

How about If we did 35 rds and had 2 FAABs with no drops (expanding rosters to 40 then 45), that actually simplifies FAAB because we don't have to think about who to drop. And 35 players should be enough to get us to week 4.

As alluded to in reply to GX -- my feeling is one FAAB is needed pre opening day, not to cover for injuries but to account for players whose relevance increases throughout the spring. Just feel that everyone that deserves to be on the opening day roster should be.

[ToddZ]

That's why increasing the roster size for Cutlines was a good thought.

I think regardless, if there's FAAB in the contest then those drafting in Jan should be on as equal footing as possible compared to those drafting in March which is accomplished (mostly) via pre opening day FAAB. All the perceived relevant players will be on a cutline roster opening day.

Fair point, but it would be hard to run a FAAB when everyone is drafting for the main event lges in the final week.

Fair point as well.

That said, if this ends up being the sticking point, we should be able to figure something out.

[KJ Duke]

Maybe first FAAB could be after week 1. Early drafters wouldn't lose too much ground with just one week (which is usually a light week anyway).

[Greg Ambrosius]

You all know from the DCs that 40 rounds isn't enough. And if you do that you're well into 3 1/2 hour drafts. You'll need more than 40 players to compete for the big money in the playoff rounds after the All-Star break and we all know that.

Greg, how long do the 15-team 30 round online drafts take? Cutlines with 45 rounds should be the same length.

The 12-team, 30-round Online Championships take about 3:15, sometimes 15 minutes shorter, sometimes 15 minutes faster. So 10 teams, 45 rounds or 50 rounds would take around 4 hours or so.

Listen, the game everyone wants is this:

A quick draft, maybe available every night
A similar scoring style to NFBC
Deep rosters to take you through the year
No FAAB
No Setting Starting Lineups

Right?

If you have no FAAB, folks won't draft in December and January. All of these will be done right before the start of the season, thus falling short of goals.

But the game described above is 10 teams, 45-round drafts with no FAAB.

Those are 4+ hour drafts and is it worth your time at $125 and a shot at only $40,000 or $50,000?

And then nobody has Carlos Correa, who was called up in June. Is there a manageable way to do 1 or 2 FAABs?

I'll sit back and listen, but no FAAB, no Set Lineups, drafting whenever you want is what it appears this group wants. Am I wrong? But will people take the time for these long drafts?? Do we push picks to 45 seconds?? Just throwing that out there.

Or are 10-team, 30-round quick nightly drafts the answer with more work during the season? Time to pick a route to travel.

[Glenneration X]

What baseball is missing that football has (and what I thought was one of the primary tenets in creating this contest) is a true draft and go contest.

DC's are sold as draft and go's, but as we know they truly aren't, because you draft and then need to revisit the team twice a week for 26 weeks to set lineups.

When I draft a football DC, I never have to look at the league again. I don't need to know what players I drafted. I just need to see if I cashed at season's end. There's no commitment whatsoever, and that's a great part of its appeal, and you can trust that's not just for me.

The last thing I want to do is draft a dozen low dollar teams, not think about them for a quarter season, then every month or two, relearn my teams, try to figure out what their individual strengths and weaknesses are, the FAAB tendencies of my leaguemates, and review the available free agents for each of these multiple leagues. That is a commitment. And that's not a draft and go.

But I've said more than my piece. I suppose it's all about what the NFBC is hoping to achieve with this contest, but if it's a draft and go format, FAAB isn't part of the equation.

[KJ Duke]

Good points Glenn, although with a points-driven league there really isn't much of a learning curve in looking at your team fresh after a month. But I agree that having a true draft and go would have appeal, and this league is sort of walking the line between what we have in the DCs and what we have in football.

I'd still bet you couldn't resist drafting a few even if they did have a couple FAABs.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Just half a day into comments you asked for and we get a 'give up' post from you, Greg?
You're better than that!
Every comment has been made with the thought of this contest succeeding.

Dan, you obviously don't know me well enough. I'm not a quitter and I'm not quitting on this game. It just took a few hours to see that everyone has a different agenda for this contest. My post said that I think I know which way we need to go already, nothing more.

The veterans hate FAAB. In football we still have a level playing field in the Cutline whether you draft in April or draft in August. This is going to be tougher to duplicate in baseball without FAAB. As Todd has said, people will just draft their Cutlines later in the spring with no FAAB, so we need to figure out how we can have quick drafts with deep rosters while still allowing early drafters to have access to the late bloomers.

That's a tough one. Hopefully we figure it out and try this out. We certainly want to roll out a "best ball" contest but it's not going to be easy to please everyone. It didn't take long to see that.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Creating an NFBC-style game for our veterans who don't like long drafts, who don't like FAAB, who don't like this format is a mistake.

I'm confused by this statement. Wasn't the intention of this contest to appeal to the DFS crowd? If so, who cares what (no offense) KJ, Zola, Doughy or ANY of us have to say? Of course you're going to meet resistance from this group! You've given us oatmeal with raisins for the past 13 years -- and now you want to add nuts????

I know I once had you throwing up on the train ride home after serving you too many beers, but I've never served you oatmeal with raisins. I'm not trying to create a game for the DFS audience, but I think there is a big audience that understands point-style games. As you know, SSS, Ultimate Fantasy Sports and many other games started in the 1980s with point-style scoring just like DFS uses today. But sure, let's find something that works for our audience and makes sense to new players and turn this thing on. I just want it to work out of the gate and grow each year, like we've done with the NFFC Cutline Championship. That contest has had over 2,000 teams each of the first two seasons. Let's do that here.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Everone has a different agenda?
I don't think so.
I think everybody has the same agenda.
TO MAKE THIS CONTEST SUCCEED.
We all have differnet ideas in how to do that.
The process will work.
The final word is yours, Greg.
I'm proud that so many players are passionate enough to want the best for a new contest.

[joshguy]

Not that I am one to draft a lot of teams for a contest, but for a Cutline with no FAAB, I could draft 60 teams and not worry about it. With FAAB, I probably couldnt even go 6 because of the extra time commitment.

Remember, most of the guys who have teams in the Cutline would have DC lineups to do 1.5 times per week plus all their other leagues with FAAB and if they had to do FAAB for a lot of low price leagues, the low price leagues wouldnt get the attention, I guess our kids wouldnt get attention those 4 weeks either too!

[DOUGHBOYS]

Who has said that short drafts are preferred?
We love drafting.
Time of drafts are usually only mentioned for auctions.
Heck, KJ had to ask Greg how long drafts took.
A 45 second clock with more rounds?
Bring it on.