What Is The Latest On The Cutline Championship?

[Glenneration X]

Good points Glenn, although with a points-driven league there really isn't much of a learning curve in looking at your team fresh after a month. But I agree that having a true draft and go would have appeal, and this league is sort of walking the line between what we have in the DCs and what we have in football.

I'd still bet you couldn't resist drafting a few even if they did have a couple FAABs.

Addiction's an ugly thing.

[KJ Duke]

I think regardless, if there's FAAB in the contest then those drafting in Jan should be on as equal footing as possible compared to those drafting in March which is accomplished (mostly) via pre opening day FAAB. All the perceived relevant players will be on a cutline roster opening day.

Just checked football rules - first FAAB is after Week 1. Plus, getting to the playoffs only requires beating the guys in your league not the guys who drafted early, so it's different than the other overall contests (in terms of being disadvantaged).

Week 1 works in football, probably the safest/fairest option for baseball too.

[Doctor Who]

With all the egomaniacs out there Greg, why did you even post this if you already knew what you would get? Your words not mine.

I think the Postseason contest had as many teams as it did because it was the ONLY contest being offered really at any of the major sites. No where else other than CDM I suppose. Not DFS, not even an alternative from you on this site. There was nothin else to research and a whole season of stats that were current were used for that game. Now you have a time where your NFBC core already spends hours of their time researching for MARCH drafts, so they don't want to learn a new system that wont help them come March. This league is seen as a preparation tool for your NFBC vets, but is probably seen as the ONLY game a DFS player or new player coming in from the outside will play (At first, since you are obviously hoping that this will get them to play your other games at higher price points.)

This is what your bet comes down to in this contest. Do you bet on your NFBC vets being the core of this contest and having some DFS or newbies sprinkled in? Or Do you bet on the DFS and newbies crowd being the core of this contest and having some NFBC vets sprinkled in? If you are going to do some cross-advertising or advertising for the game to get the new folks, then go for it. But how will that crowd even know it exists if you don't, therefore maybe it falls short of your expectations...

As Glenn or BK said earlier, I believe people come to this site to go up against the very best or at least be in the room with the very best. And then they stay because they see from talking with you the home you have created. So while this conversation started with what point system to use, to now FAAB periods, you 100% know you will not create something that everyone will like, but you once again already knew that. Your goal in my opinion, is to create something you think the most people will join. Whether that means having less FAAB, same FAAB, different scoring systems, whatever. Whatever you decide, you need to be with peace with it. Coming from a guy that takes things way too personal myself, everyone that plays your games, comes back because of what you have created or done for them in the past. Don't give up your biggest asset (your personality of being happy and excited), and not go with what your gut and numbers say for this contest just to appease some people. It is just like the rest of us have to do every day during a draft, go with what the numbers tell us, and ultimately what our gut says when we have to make a pick.

[KJ Duke]

Good points Glenn, although with a points-driven league there really isn't much of a learning curve in looking at your team fresh after a month. But I agree that having a true draft and go would have appeal, and this league is sort of walking the line between what we have in the DCs and what we have in football.

I'd still bet you couldn't resist drafting a few even if they did have a couple FAABs.

Addiction's an ugly thing.

Speaking of FAAB, how awesome is it to NOT have to do football FAAB tonight !!!!



We have all this time to debate baseball rules!

[DOUGHBOYS]

Good points Glenn, although with a points-driven league there really isn't much of a learning curve in looking at your team fresh after a month. But I agree that having a true draft and go would have appeal, and this league is sort of walking the line between what we have in the DCs and what we have in football.

I'd still bet you couldn't resist drafting a few even if they did have a couple FAABs.

Addiction's an ugly thing.

Speaking of FAAB, how awesome is it to NOT have to do football FAAB tonight !!!!




We have all this time to debate baseball rules!

It is also the best (only? ) good thing about baseball season being over.
Freedom from FAAB is a beautiful thing.

[Glenneration X]

Good points Glenn, although with a points-driven league there really isn't much of a learning curve in looking at your team fresh after a month. But I agree that having a true draft and go would have appeal, and this league is sort of walking the line between what we have in the DCs and what we have in football.

I'd still bet you couldn't resist drafting a few even if they did have a couple FAABs.

Addiction's an ugly thing.

Speaking of FAAB, how awesome is it to NOT have to do football FAAB tonight !!!!



We have all this time to debate baseball rules!

Actually I wish I could switch out Ingram in a league or two.

[Red Sox Nation-]

Excellent points and opinions by all in this thread. Originally I was fixated on the scoring, meanwhile I completely omitted the FAAB element.

Like many- If I entered the contest I'd be looking to add to my normal higher stakes leagues I play. I wasn't going to reduce those leagues to add Cutline's. I'm completely tapped out on FAAB already. I can't add anything to that plate so I wouldn't be a cutline player. Like many here I love the idea of draft and done. If that was the case you'd see some major volume players here which would add big entries to the overall. With FAAB you're gonna limit that element.

Like Doughy - You'll never hear me complain about how long a draft is. Those 3-5 hours are arguably the greatest 3-5 hours of my year. (Is my life boring?) Of course you (Greg) hear from the masses and I'm sure people b**ch about how long drafts take. (not talking draft champions here which of course inevitably result in some bickering each year)

Regarding drafting in January vs March- I see both sides of this argument but I'm on the side that I feel I have an advantage drafting early before everyone has ripped through and studied all of the same information. If I have a "deep sleeper" I may have a shot at him in round 24 in January before the Hype machine starts and he's going in Round 10 in March. It can work both ways. Yes injuries suck but I'd rather lose my pitcher to Tommy John in a $125 entry league than a Main Event. I've always preferred and played only the earlier DC's.

Bottom line is I hope this contest thrives whether I'm in it. I always root for the NFBC. I don't want to see you guys lose $. Losing money can impact this great game. Our payouts could get lower in the future. We could lose more live events, ETC. I hope the NFBC kicks a** cause it's good for all of us. Which is why I see all of this feedback from the players coming from a good spot.

No FAAB, No Lineups, Longer Drafts (Best part of season) = WINNER



Jason

[Glenneration X]

Good points Glenn, although with a points-driven league there really isn't much of a learning curve in looking at your team fresh after a month. But I agree that having a true draft and go would have appeal, and this league is sort of walking the line between what we have in the DCs and what we have in football.

I'd still bet you couldn't resist drafting a few even if they did have a couple FAABs.

Speaking of FAAB, how awesome is it to NOT have to do football FAAB tonight !!!!




We have all this time to debate baseball rules!

It is also the best (only? ) good thing about baseball season being over.
Freedom from FAAB is a beautiful thing.

All kidding aside, aint it the truth though. There's a liberating feeling after finishing that last FAAB Sunday of any season or FAAB Wednesday and Friday for football. I feel like I have so much more time, like I just quit my 2nd job.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I believe this thread has told us more than a few things.
Here are two.....

1. The scoring is a matter of personal preference. Most Drafters, I feel, will enter this contest, no matter the scoring.
It is mostly a matter of HOW MANY times a drafter will draft a team.
Some will try a foreign (to them) scoring system once or twice to test their enjoyment.
Others, 50 or 60 times.
I believe that most on this site would prefer the roto scoring.
Also understand that those outside of our realm would be more familiar with the points system.

2. FAAB is the major problem. Time is of utmost concern to most drafters.
When going through the FAAB process, most drafters assign more time to the larger dollar teams.
Time for a $125 league is tough and may cause drafters not to enter many times.
Certainly not 50/60 teams.
It is why DC teams have surpassed satelites in being the most popular of 'minor' teams.
At the same time, understood is the strategy that goes with the four FAAB periods in the makeup of the rules
Getting FAAB right, or not having it at all, is the crossroads for this game.

[KJ Duke]

Agreed Dough. Lots of good input tonight.
And it's clear that FAAB is the linchpin.

Whereas I would be completely happy with a no-FAAB league too, minimal FAAB might work best from a game play standpoint and have more appeal to novice players.

If we did one FAAB after Week 1 (when everyone is still fresh and buzzing with excitement over the start of the season) and a second FAAB in preparation for the stretch run (maybe in the vicinity of week 10-12), I personally don't feel like I would be overly-taxed in FAAB time. 92% less FAAB !!!

Likewise, I see cutline FAAB being easier anyway, because: (1) it's points-based, we don't have to worry about category balance, (2) if FAAB is adding players only, not dropping anyone, there's one more thing we don't have to think about, and (3) cutline FAAB will be on Monday night so we don't have to be bothered with it while we're stressing over the big lges.

Likewise, if we go 35 draft rounds I think that's enough to cover early injuries but not too deep to lose appeal to the shallower-league player, and it hits Greg's goal of still being a pretty quick draft.

I hope we can start to build some consensus here, if not we'll probably have no cutline. Does the above sound like a workable compromise?

[Doctor Who]

Sounds like a winner.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Agreed Dough. Lots of good input tonight.
And it's clear that FAAB is the linchpin.

Whereas I would be completely happy with a no-FAAB league too, minimal FAAB might work best from a game play standpoint and have more appeal to novice players.

If we did one FAAB after Week 1 (when everyone is still fresh and buzzing with excitement over the start of the season) and a second FAAB in preparation for the stretch run (maybe in the vicinity of week 10-12), I personally don't feel like I would be overly-taxed in FAAB time. That is 2 FAABS instead of 26. 92% less FAAB !!!

Likewise, I see cutline FAAB being easier anyway, because: (1) it's points-based, we don't have to worry about category balance, (2) if FAAB is adding players only, not dropping anyone, there's one more thing we don't have to think about, and (3) cutline FAAB will be on Monday night so we don't have to be bothered with it while we're stressing over the big lges.

Likewise, if we go 35 draft rounds I think that's enough to cover early injuries but not too deep to lose appeal to the shallower-league player, and it hits Greg's goal of still being a pretty quick draft.

I hope we can start to build some consensus here, because if not it probably just won't happen. Does the above sound like a workable compromise?

I'm not the one to ask, Kevin.
I am firmly in the camp of no FAAB. For me, it has just become a chore.
Sunday's have already become a fantasy 'work day' for me.
Hopefully, we'll have others chime in and give their thoughts.

[Yah Mule]

If the decision was made to reduce to two FAAB periods - which seems like a reasonable compromise - I think drops should still be allowed, perhaps with a set limit per FAAB period. The more players you drop, the less you have to spend on average per player, so there's incentive not to roll over the roster.

[KJ Duke]

Dough, two faabs is a lot less of a chore than 52 lineup periods.

It didn't take long for me to wish I didn't have to set 20+ lineups every week. This year the goal is single digits.

But ONE extra day of FAAB early in the season, and one day late in the season, not a big deal even for a lot of teams. Definitely much more appealing for me than the week in, week out grind of too many lineups.

[Glenneration X]

Agreed Dough. Lots of good input tonight.
And it's clear that FAAB is the linchpin.

Whereas I would be completely happy with a no-FAAB league too, minimal FAAB might work best from a game play standpoint and have more appeal to novice players.

If we did one FAAB after Week 1 (when everyone is still fresh and buzzing with excitement over the start of the season) and a second FAAB in preparation for the stretch run (maybe in the vicinity of week 10-12), I personally don't feel like I would be overly-taxed in FAAB time. That is 2 FAABS instead of 26. 92% less FAAB !!!

Likewise, I see cutline FAAB being easier anyway, because: (1) it's points-based, we don't have to worry about category balance, (2) if FAAB is adding players only, not dropping anyone, there's one more thing we don't have to think about, and (3) cutline FAAB will be on Monday night so we don't have to be bothered with it while we're stressing over the big lges.

Likewise, if we go 35 draft rounds I think that's enough to cover early injuries but not too deep to lose appeal to the shallower-league player, and it hits Greg's goal of still being a pretty quick draft.

I hope we can start to build some consensus here, because if not it probably just won't happen. Does the above sound like a workable compromise?

I'm not the one to ask, Kevin.
I am firmly in the camp of no FAAB. For me, it has just become a chore.
Sunday's have already become a fantasy 'work day' for me.
Hopefully, we'll have others chime in and give their thoughts.

I'm with Doughy, strongly in the no FAAB camp. I just think no FAAB is the best avenue to maximize growth for this contest, to raise its ceiling for potential entries. Let's face it, with any FAAB, even if it's only one week or two, those who play this contest will be forced to consider how much FAAB they can handle those weeks that FAAB does run. Whether that be one team, or 50 teams, or no teams, there will be a limit placed due to FAAB. With no FAAB that roadblock to additional entries is eliminated.

However if FAAB is a must and changing the date away from Sunday FAAB is on the table, I'd make one suggestion to move it to Wednesday or Thursday instead of Monday. We set lineups on Monday. Let's pick a completely team management free day to not further create unnecessary time restraints.

[KJ Duke]

I see two problems with no FAAB.

#1 • If you draft early you're at a big disadvantage versus the late drafters once playoffs roll around.
#2 • It probably shifts the game appeal strongly toward the vet player, away from the novice which we want to engage.

How do you fix that, Dough/Glenn?

[Glenneration X]

I see two problems with no FAAB.

#1 • If you draft early you're at a big disadvantage versus the late drafters once playoffs roll around.
#2 • It probably shifts the game appeal strongly toward the vet player, away from the novice which we want to engage.

How do you fix that, Dough/Glenn?

#1/2 - Like the DC's, the vets will play the early leagues where they believe they have an advantage, while the novices will play later more towards the start of the season. Honestly, it would be that way whether there was FAAB or not. What novices are drafting in January?

[KJ Duke]

I see two problems with no FAAB.

#1 • If you draft early you're at a big disadvantage versus the late drafters once playoffs roll around.
#2 • It probably shifts the game appeal strongly toward the vet player, away from the novice which we want to engage.

How do you fix that, Dough/Glenn?

#1/2 - Like the DC's, the vets will play the early leagues where they believe they have an advantage, while the novices will play later more towards the start of the season. Honestly, it would be that way whether there was FAAB or not. What novices are drafting in January?

Valuable players will emerge in the Spring that won't be on rosters from 35-round drafts (10x35 is the equal of drafting only starters with no bench in 15 teamers). Those players will be on all late draft rosters. Likewise, there will be major injuries, again an edge to late drafters. This is not a 750-man draft where everyone with a pulse is on someone's roster. Very different than a DC, discernable edge to late drafts. So again, how do you fix it ?

[Glenneration X]

I see two problems with no FAAB.

#1 • If you draft early you're at a big disadvantage versus the late drafters once playoffs roll around.
#2 • It probably shifts the game appeal strongly toward the vet player, away from the novice which we want to engage.

How do you fix that, Dough/Glenn?

#1/2 - Like the DC's, the vets will play the early leagues where they believe they have an advantage, while the novices will play later more towards the start of the season. Honestly, it would be that way whether there was FAAB or not. What novices are drafting in January?

Valuable players will emerge in the Spring that won't be on rosters from 35-round drafts. They will be on all late draft rosters. This is not a 750-man draft where everyone with a pulse is on someone's roster. Very different than a DC, discernable edge to late drafts. So again, how do you fix it ?

45 deep drafted rosters as suggested earlier. If January vs March drafting is not a concern for the DC's, why so much for the Cutlines?

I also believe if engaging the novices is a concern, FAAB is far from the great equalizer. Novices can potentially keep up with the experienced drafters. It's FAAB where the difference makers truly shine.

[KJ Duke]

One other issue I wanted to throw out ...

The final round (one week) in football cutline has 12 teams making the cut. All of those teams get paid.

How many should make the cut for the final round (3 weeks) in baseball? Likewise, all get paid.
10
12
15
20
more?

[KJ Duke]

Second question.

If even 2 FAAB periods is too much, is everyone OK with a no-FAAB setup?

Does anyone want to push back against that?

Is anyone concerned enough about late drafters having an edge that they won't draft early if it gets pushed from 35 to 45 rounds? Or will everyone just keep drafting more teams?

[Rog]

Sorry guys a little late getting back to this party. I am on the no faab/ draft and check it out weekly and see how I am doing.
I have a few football teams that had to play with out a qb or a kicker this year . I get it/ I understand it / I took the gamble when I only drafted 2 of each. there is no reason why baseball cant be the same way. I had a few draft champion teams with no catchers for most of the season. We ll understand that when we draft early(sometimes you reap the rewards with a correa in the 40th rd or as the draft season gets closer you watch betts climb a round everyday it seems like. Bottom line is we are all in the same boat . I was chatting to Dan earlier this year on how I missed the faab for the second week of the cutline (4 teams)
because me and my wife were out to dinner and I couldnt tell her I had to leave for faab . Yes I could of been more prepared and done it early in the week or day but I thought I would be home and didnt expect a surprise night out with no kids with the wife. Damn did it hurt my teams. I play a lot of dfs and that late night dinner didnt matter to any of them because I didnt do any. No obligations. no faab who cares about the scoring as long as I am drafting or just putting teams together one way or another . Maybe Greg can come up with a way to do sit and go baseball drafts or on a weekly basis setting a lineup on Monday and Friday for 1 week leagues. Losing mesarocco and Stanton and and watching kinsler and lester /chapman underachieve all year for a small fee of $1500 could be tolerated a lot easier that way.
Are drafting weekly or monthly baseball teams possible? 10 / 12 or 15 team league? 30 man roster ? monday/ friday moves? Whatever scoring system you want?

[Doctor Who]

Second question.

If even 2 FAAB periods is too much, is everyone OK with a no-FAAB setup?

Does anyone want to push back against that?

Is anyone concerned enough about late drafters having an edge that they won't draft early if it gets pushed from 35 to 45 rounds? Or will everyone just keep drafting more teams?

As much as we hate FAAB, I feel you have to have at least 2-4 throughout the year to differentiate from the DC's which Greg has already said he doesn't want to have guys trade one for the other, dropping down that contest. Almost sounds as though we are trying to make the DC's better rather then a new game if we take FAAB out of it. While I agree Glenn that it would prohibit some of the 50-60 entries because of faab, that will only be a few that would even think about doing that many.

I think the medium here is you have a faab before the start of the season and make faab a different day, maybe even Friday when everyone is checking lineups for their main teams anyways. Would leave you all week to work on it and still wouldn't conflict with the guys that spend Sunday's on faab on their main teams.

[King of Queens]

I would propose two FAABs as follows:

(1) The Saturday immediately prior to Opening Day - make it different from the main Sunday deadline, and before the Opening Day slate of 3 games. The night before would work well in that regard. Teams drafting in January would have months to update their free agent pickup list, and be completely prepared for the deadline.

(2) The Thursday of All-Star Break - again, you make it a different day from the "traditional" FAAB. Owners would have the entire All-Star Break to compile their free agent lists. Best of all, there would actually be something to do during the longest 4 days of the year.

[BK METS]

I would propose two FAABs as follows:

(1) The Saturday immediately prior to Opening Day - make it different from the main Sunday deadline, and before the Opening Day slate of 3 games. The night before would work well in that regard. Teams drafting in January would have months to update their free agent pickup list, and be completely prepared for the deadline.

(2) The Thursday of All-Star Break - again, you make it a different day from the "traditional" FAAB. Owners would have the entire All-Star Break to compile their free agent lists. Best of all, there would actually be something to do during the longest 4 days of the year.

I agree with this. I think 2 is perfect and these are times when we have some extra time when we arent doing other FAAB. Having none is pretty much making this a DC and this is supposed to be different and appealing to a broader audience who will not like the "no FAAB" concept.