What Is The Latest On The Cutline Championship?

[KJ Duke]

I would propose two FAABs as follows:

(1) The Saturday immediately prior to Opening Day - make it different from the main Sunday deadline, and before the Opening Day slate of 3 games. The night before would work well in that regard. Teams drafting in January would have months to update their free agent pickup list, and be completely prepared for the deadline.

(2) The Thursday of All-Star Break - again, you make it a different day from the "traditional" FAAB. Owners would have the entire All-Star Break to compile their free agent lists. Best of all, there would actually be something to do during the longest 4 days of the year.

I agree with this. I think 2 is perfect and these are times when we have some extra time when we arent doing other FAAB. Having none is pretty much making this a DC and this is supposed to be different and appealing to a broader audience who will not like the "no FAAB" concept.

No way that possibly works. No one wants to do FAAB for a bunch of $100 teams while getting ready to draft main event, and the regular season is over for the cutline at the ASB. If we have two periods it pretty much has to be after Week 1 plus once later in the season, but not after the season is over.

Given the FAAB resistance, it seems to me there are two options for this league.
(1) a 35-rd draft with 2 FAABs (after Wk1 and once deeper into the season)
(2) a 45-rd draft with no FAAB

I think either could work, but I want the want one that gets the most signups thus ensuring we have a successful new concept. Which is most likely to succeed?

[DOUGHBOYS]

Aren't folks drafting live that Saturday night?

[Doctor Who]

Correct. Saturday wouldn't work because of The drafts. What about that first Monday-Thursday of the season and then having those players eligible that Friday. So in essence would only miss the first series of the year. But again, maybe the minority will be actually drafting so Saturday-Sunday works best for the majority who aren't drafting in bigger leagues that wkd.

Maybe you pick a wkd like Memorial Day for the second one since most are off work and have an extra day off. Almost in middle for everyone playing and would give you shot in arm down the stretch where the cut line starts after the ASB...

[DOUGHBOYS]

I would propose two FAABs as follows:

(1) The Saturday immediately prior to Opening Day - make it different from the main Sunday deadline, and before the Opening Day slate of 3 games. The night before would work well in that regard. Teams drafting in January would have months to update their free agent pickup list, and be completely prepared for the deadline.

(2) The Thursday of All-Star Break - again, you make it a different day from the "traditional" FAAB. Owners would have the entire All-Star Break to compile their free agent lists. Best of all, there would actually be something to do during the longest 4 days of the year.

I agree with this. I think 2 is perfect and these are times when we have some extra time when we arent doing other FAAB. Having none is pretty much making this a DC and this is supposed to be different and appealing to a broader audience who will not like the "no FAAB" concept.

No way that possibly works. No one wants to do FAAB for a bunch of $100 teams while getting ready to draft main event, and the regular season is over for the cutline at the ASB. If we have two periods it pretty much has to be after Week 1 plus once later in the season, but not after the season is over.

Given the FAAB resistance, it seems to me there are two options for this league.
(1) a 35-rd draft with 2 FAABs (after Wk1 and once deeper into the season)
(2) a 45-rd draft with no FAAB

I think either could work, but I want the want one that gets the most signups thus ensuring we have a successful new concept. Which is most likely to succeed?

Or the full four FAAB periods.
Some, that don't mind FAAB, may feel like the two FAAB periods 'dilute' a good game.
There are some who embraced the four FAAB's before this thread started.

[KJ Duke]

Don't muddy the waters Dan! Has anyone actually said they want more rather than less FAAB periods?

I'm just trying to distill this down to it's most desirable for the most players so we actually have a game.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Don't muddy the waters Dan! Has anyone actually said they want more rather than less FAAB periods?

I'm just trying to distill this down to it's most desirable for the most players so we actually have a game.

We have to be fair.
We are only reacting to those that had the time to respond to this thread today.
We can't discount those that have said they liked the original concept before this thread.
I would at least like this thread to remain open for a few more days to get more comments.

[Rainiers]

Don't muddy the waters Dan! Has anyone actually said they want more rather than less FAAB periods?

I'm just trying to distill this down to it's most desirable for the most players so we actually have a game.

We have to be fair.
We are only reacting to those that had the time to respond to this thread today.
We can't discount those that have said they liked the original concept before this thread.
I would at least like this thread to remain open for a few more days to get more comments.

Thank you, Dan

Not all of us read these these boards every day or even every week this time of year. Hopefully we'll hear from a few fresh voices on this.

[Rainiers]

I agree with Todd, Its the format that is really exciting. Either point system is fine.

I agree with KJ, perhaps a 35-round, ten-team league would be a good compromise. Any more rounds, and I'd probably stay away from early season drafts, as I'm so not nearly prepared to be doing 450 player drafts in January.

I agree with Greg, if the drafts are too long, lots of players like me won't be doing impulse fun drafts when I have an evening free up. Its a whole lot easier to get away for 2.5 to 3 hours than it is for 4-5 hours. One good suggestion was to try and shorten the clock.

I'm OK with fewer than 4 FAABS, but would prefer that many. The fewer you get, the more it feels like DFS, and that does not feel too good to me right now. So the two that KJ suggests as compromise might be a good idea, as there are lot of people here wanting to minimize them. How about 3?

[KJ Duke]

Don't muddy the waters Dan! Has anyone actually said they want more rather than less FAAB periods?

I'm just trying to distill this down to it's most desirable for the most players so we actually have a game.

We have to be fair.
We are only reacting to those that had the time to respond to this thread today.
We can't discount those that have said they liked the original concept before this thread.
I would at least like this thread to remain open for a few more days to get more comments.

The more people that chime in the better Dan, I wish we could get 100 different players to chime in with what they'd like to see. So, if you're lurking please jump in with your opinion.

That said, we can't have 3 separate contests and if we keep going in circles with no agreement we'll have nothing. For any chance of getting this off the ground we need to find the one setup that gives us the best chance. Zero FAAB would be awesome. Two FAABS great, I originally proposed 3 and Greg suggested four; but it's clear the more FAAB periods the more signups we risk losing, including yourself. And with every option offered the odds of finding a consensus goes down. Let's find the best couple options and see which the majority wants. If my two compromise options are the wrong two and the silent majority has a better idea, by all means speak up!

[the icon]

well I was really looking forward to a league like this but I was really looking for a draft and go like footballs draft champions. I believe you can get great value early if you do your homework. but to me draft and go means more impale the draft is the best part of the season anyway. but I can see people wanting free agency and if that's the case I could live with 2. after week one I think is a good idea.people could live with there roster for one week. if you drafted that bad one week of free agency probably wont help you win anyway and for the 2nd one sometime before playoffs I guess that's just one week ill have to suck it up. but I want to see this happen so lets decide something maybe take a vote or something like that. I think we all want to see this work Greg there's obviously been a lot of time spent discussing what we would all like to see.

[Potter]

Don't want to come off as Negative Nancy, but I think the chances of this contest, regardless of scoring/faab set up, being wildly successful are small. I think many of the current NFBC owners who would gravitate towards this contest would be folks who are already playing DC's, and will sub one for the other.

I know most (90%?) current owners want as little faab as possible. I feel like most non-current owners who would play in this game would probably prefer more faab periods than 0,1 or 2. If attracting some of the DFS crowd is the idea, I doubt scoring system matters. But I do think the idea of drafting a team in January, and only having 1-4 (or 0) opportunities over the next 9 months to tinker with it, is sorta the opposite of what that set is used to.

I think many new players will not like the idea of win your league, double your money. Finish 2nd, and potentially/likely get zippy. I think most vets like the idea of small entry fee, large overall prize.

After digesting the rules for the Cutline as they were initially presented, the 4 faab periods was a big enough turnoff for me to easily dismiss the idea of playing. 4 is better than 26, but each of those 4 faab periods seems like would take as much time as maybe 2 or 3 or 4 regular regular faab weeks. Otherwise known as too much time. Especially since being profitable in this format is that much harder than other formats. Can't see myself feeling like it's time well spent during those weeks.

I think a points based contest, not too dissimilar to the OC, is the door to attracting new owners.

[bradybrothers]

I really don't like the message boards. I've looked at it recently because I was interested in the new cutline. I get the arguments both ways. But, my two cents is let Greg play it out with his point system and it will either work or it won't. Market economy will take care of itself. I personally like the proposed points system which doesn't mimic roto. I personally would play in 10-20 of them. I personally like the 4 FAAB periods- it seems about right. I would reduce my DC spending but not eliminate it as I use DC to learn the player pool for the Main. But, between the two, NFBC would be getting more net money from me not less with the introduction of the new game. Actually, using a points system mimicking roto is less attractive to me despite having to come up with two draft lists. My two cents.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I really don't like the message boards. I've looked at it recently because I was interested in the new cutline. I get the arguments both ways. But, my two cents is let Greg play it out with his point system and it will either work or it won't. Market economy will take care of itself. I personally like the proposed points system which doesn't mimic roto. I personally would play in 10-20 of them. I personally like the 4 FAAB periods- it seems about right. I would reduce my DC spending but not eliminate it as I use DC to learn the player pool for the Main. But, between the two, NFBC would be getting more net money from me not less with the introduction of the new game. Actually, using a points system mimicking roto is less attractive to me despite having to come up with two draft lists. My two cents.

Thanks Don. I know that the Message Boards isn't your cup of tea.
Maybe Greg should just say 'Screw you Dan' and all the rest of the regulars.
We talked about rules to tedium.
Fellas like Don just want to play.
Maybe we should all just step aside, start the contest, and see if it works.

[bradybrothers]

Dan: You are one of my favorite players and people I have met through the NFBC and I respect your opinion a lot. I don't want to get in the way of anything or muddy any waters. FAAB does take a lot of time but I don't know how to avoid it. I think in this game it is a necessary evil. I think two periods is the absolute least and four is the absolute most which should be considered. I like four but if not; then, I like three.

Don

[DOUGHBOYS]

Dan: You are one of my favorite players and people I have met through the NFBC and I respect your opinion a lot. I don't want to get in the way of anything or muddy any waters. FAAB does take a lot of time but I don't know how to avoid it. I think in this game it is a necessary evil. I think two periods is the absolute least and four is the absolute most which should be considered. I like four but if not; then, I like three.

Don

Fellas like you and your brother are the backbone of the NFBC, Don. An absolute joy to meet and tough competitors in any league.
Greg has stated that he doesn't want the Cutline to mimic the Draft Champions League.
I believe the contest should be started with the new points format and two, three, or four FAAB periods, as was the original intent.
The worst that can happen is that rules will be adjusted next year.
The best that can happen is that many join and enjoy the experience.

[ToddZ]

Just a general comment about cutline FAAB....

I foresee it as less labor intensive than roto-FAAB for the simple reason that points is points.

With respect to hitting, you don't have to deal with the power v speed balance, only how many points you anticipate players of need at certain positions will accrue going forward. And with increasing eligibility as the season progresses, a well-constructed roster with some position flexibility will just worry about the best available hitter -- period.

Pitching (I believe) is going to evolve as we'll all learn the best way to construct a best ball staff. But the whole saves conundrum is mostly moot -- points are points. There's less deciding how to handle saves at the draft then supplement in FAAB. This too should facilitate pitching FAAB -- list the arms in order of expected points regardless of starter or closer.

I guess my point is if someone spends, say, 30 minutes per league on FAAB, my sense is less than 30 minutes will be needed per cutline league.

[Money]

I guess I'm late to the party here and haven't read through it all. I like the concept a lot, the scoring system matters not to me.

FAAB - I will have less teams this year so the 4 periods do not bother me at all. I understand why it does some. In reality if this was a high stakes contest the veterans would want the FAAB periods as often as possible, but it's not. It has to be a massive advantage for veterans and high stakes players who are doing faab every week during the season.

In reality the DFS (only) player who is jumping into the contest is going to have to have one hell of a draft to win with the proposed faab process in place. It will be very difficult for them to go through the process against those that have been doing it for years. I also think it will take less time than a conventional high stakes league.

All things considered, I'm fine with 4 faab periods and any scoring system that is rolled out.

[BK METS]

Just a general comment about cutline FAAB....

I foresee it as less labor intensive than roto-FAAB for the simple reason that points is points.

With respect to hitting, you don't have to deal with the power v speed balance, only how many points you anticipate players of need at certain positions will accrue going forward. And with increasing eligibility as the season progresses, a well-constructed roster with some position flexibility will just worry about the best available hitter -- period.

Pitching (I believe) is going to evolve as we'll all learn the best way to construct a best ball staff. But the whole saves conundrum is mostly moot -- points are points. There's less deciding how to handle saves at the draft then supplement in FAAB. This too should facilitate pitching FAAB -- list the arms in order of expected points regardless of starter or closer.

I guess my point is if someone spends, say, 30 minutes per league on FAAB, my sense is less than 30 minutes will be needed per cutline league.

Very good point Todd. You still have to fill positional depth, but its not like you need to look for stolen base guys over power guys.

[Navel Lint]

Given the FAAB resistance, it seems to me there are two options for this league.
(1) a 35-rd draft with 2 FAABs (after Wk1 and once deeper into the season)
(2) a 45-rd draft with no FAAB

I think either could work, but I want the want one that gets the most signups thus ensuring we have a successful new concept. Which is most likely to succeed?

I like the shorter draft (30 RDS) with more FAAB (4) periods, but would be willing to play any variation of the game.

One thing I would add. If you are increasing the drafted roster, make it an even number of rounds (36/46). The original Slow Drafts were 45 rounds the first year and there were some complaints about the "uneven" way we drafted.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Thanks all for the feedback on the NFBC Cutline Championship. My silence is not because I didn't have thoughts on this. I've been dealing with some other issues the last couple of days and wasn't around to respond. Sorry.

I think the two options are to:
a) table this format for a year or
b) roll this out in January with a compromise of ideas here.

I do think that we can have quick, 10-team drafts even if we expand to 34 or 36 rounds this year. Our online draft room has the Draft Prep that allows owners to flow in their own player default lists for everyone online draft and we'll have an option that allows owners to flow in the ADPs as their player default lists if they'd like. That should make finding players easier for everyone during the online drafts. Maybe we also cut the time per pick to 50 or 55 seconds.

I'm hearing:
a) 5x5 Roto points scoring
b) 34-36 round drafts
c) 2 FAAB periods (1 after the first week of season; 1 at or near All-Star break)

Maybe we expand to 45 players with the first FAAB. Yes, it would be some work to add 9-11 players to your rosters, but it's a one-time exercise there and 45 players in a 10-team league should work until the next FAAB.

I'm feeling the love for optimal scoring formats that mimic NFBC later drafts. Draft and be done. Quick 'n easy baseball drafts during the cold, winter months. I see the potential. FAAB is the stumbling point, but would 1 FAAB during the season and 1 more FAAB during a dead time of the season really be the end of the world?

That's the question I need to answer. I'll give it some more thought. Again, thanks for the feedback, even if it was all over the board. Even my opinion of this contest changed dramatically from Page 1, which I didn't think was possible.

Thanks.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Thanks for the listen, Greg.

I know this contest is very big on the football side of things.
As we were debating the positives and negatives of this contest for baseball, it struck me that we were missing something.
Usually when introducing a new contest and it is being tweaked, there are usually a lot of folks who basically exclaim, "SHUT UP, WE JUST WANT TO PLAY!"
That general excitement was missing with this contest.

I do believe that there was more excitement in copying another of the football contests.
The Football DC Championship in which no lineups or FAAB is needed. I believe there are many, many drafters who would take multiple teams in this format on the baseball side.
When looking at the price point, multiple teams is key for such a contest.
That element, for the most part, would be missing in the Cutline with FAAB.
Maybe your idea here, can spawn another.

I know your idea was to mimic the Cutline Football contest, but what if we copied the DC Football contest?
The DC Baseball Championship can co-exist with a points-like contest.
Differences could be that the new contest would be in a points format, 10 teams, 60 rounds.
I know that 60 rounds sounds like a lot.
Drafting though, is what is most pleasurable for contestants.
Even more pleasurable is that all commitments to that team is finished after that draft.
Draft and done.
With a 45/50 second clock, the draft would go quick enough.
600 players is still far less than the 750 players taken in a DC Championship draft.

This would introduce a points league into the NFBC without any work on the managing side.
Just my thoughts. And again thanks for the listen.

[ToddZ]

Thanks all for the feedback on the NFBC Cutline Championship. My silence is not because I didn't have thoughts on this. I've been dealing with some other issues the last couple of days and wasn't around to respond. Sorry.

Geez, I wonder what might have drawn your attention the past couple of days...

b.
b.
b.

No more talk -- no more tweaks, no more ideas.

b.
b.
b.

Have I said I'm for choice b?

[Gekko]

as a side note, i would play in faaaaar more DC leagues if they were optimal point scoring leagues that mimicked roto.

paying attention to players news, league category standings and setting a lineup every week (twice a week for hitters) in more than 10-12 DC leagues is a bit time consuming. if DC leagues were optimal scoring, i could see myself doubling (or maybe even tripling) the number of DCs I play.

Think about the overall DC contest doubling in signups. i could see it happening with optimal scoring

[Captain Hook]

(have only read first page, BUT)

If you had already started with one (or both) how many leagues would have already drafted.

PICK one or both and see what happens

[Money]

Thanks all for the feedback on the NFBC Cutline Championship. My silence is not because I didn't have thoughts on this. I've been dealing with some other issues the last couple of days and wasn't around to respond. Sorry.

Geez, I wonder what might have drawn your attention the past couple of days...

b.
b.
b.

No more talk -- no more tweaks, no more ideas.

b.
b.
b.

Have I said I'm for choice b?

Just let it roll as you designed it Greg. Lower the guaranteed purse and see where it goes. You can tweak it next year. By my count there were 16 people voice opinions that we're all over the board.

This discussion would be better served at the conclusion of your inaugural season.