Mazara

[Asumijet]

Actually Greg, I advised you about Mallex Smith. But you didn't advise me he was ineligible so I spent 45 minutes trying to squeeze him in my bids. It never dawned on me that Mazara was ineligible. I assumed FAAB locked at 7 a.m. Monday morning. I'm stupid for not rereading the rules. If I had not bid on Mazara, I would have gotten Aaron Sanchez with the extra money. I respect your decision. But I would have delayed the FAAB 24 hours. We are talking about Mazara here, not your average player. Everyone would know about the delay because when they checked results, they would could have been advised. By the way, I still love the Cutline.

FAAB for all NFBC leagues lock on Sunday at 7 am ET so that you don't have to keep checking the free agent wires all day long. If we didn't do that, owners would have to be by their computers all day Sunday waiting for us to add players like Mazara and Smith before the deadline. Several years ago we agreed to lock FAAB first thing Sunday morning and be done with it. That was the case for the Cutline on Sunday, but when we reopened FAAB for all leagues on Monday those two players got repopulated in the Cutline pools. I'm sorry for that.

We could have delayed by a day, but you can imagine another set of issues that would have caused. We weren't going to make it completely right whichever way we went. Sorry.

And there is the rub in all of this. The pool is locked on Sunday AM for Sunday deadline. Logic would have dictated, since it was clearly not planned for appropriately, that the pool locks on Monday AM for Monday deadline; and that is why the player was in the pool. I am stating the obvious and just the frustration, but I would add that more could have been done to communicate this issue. I was finalizing bids right up to 10:00 PM last night (by the way multiple teams and 5 adds is a time consuming nightmare) and Mazara was still in the player pool. Not sure how that happens?

[Daren E]

Glen you wondered how some owners could be naive enough to assume that the FAAB pool locks for Cutline at a different time than FAAB in other nfbc leagues. In my case it's because Cutline is the only nfbc league I play that has FAAB. I play in several DC's every year here, but none of the other FAAB leagues. So I wrongly assumed that a player is always added to the FAAB pool the day after they play their first MLB game. If that was the rule then mazara would have been eligible last night. But that's not what the rule states so that's that. In my case I only bid 113 on him so it didn't impact my bids in string #2/3/etc. but I can feel the other owners' pain who did lose out on a good player in their other strings.

[Glenneration X]

Glen you wondered how some owners could be naive enough to assume that the FAAB pool locks for Cutline at a different time than FAAB in other nfbc leagues. In my case it's because Cutline is the only nfbc league I play that has FAAB. I play in several DC's every year here, but none of the other FAAB leagues. So I wrongly assumed that a player is always added to the FAAB pool the day after they play their first MLB game. If that was the rule then mazara would have been eligible last night. But that's not what the rule states so that's that. In my case I only bid 113 on him so it didn't impact my bids in string #2/3/etc. but I can feel the other owners' pain who did lose out on a good player in their other strings.

Naïve was an unfortunate choice of words and I regret/apologize for using it. My point however remains. While the NFBC has fault here for creating a confusing situation, those of us who bid on Mazara (which again includes me) and let it affect our bidding have some accountability as well. It is on us to know the rules for the games we play.

[BK METS]

Alan - u are insulting people with your thinking.

The next contingent of bids would have to be lowered because if you thought u could win mazara for $800, how could it not impact the prices of your other 4 pickups. More foolish than the nite nite thread

Wrong again, my friend (nothing new ) Now I see why you concentrate your talents on DC leagues. Makes sense now.

[Gekko]

Alan - u are insulting people with your thinking.

The next contingent of bids would have to be lowered because if you thought u could win mazara for $800, how could it not impact the prices of your other 4 pickups. More foolish than the nite nite thread

Wrong again, my friend (nothing new ) Now I see why you concentrate your talents on DC leagues. Makes sense now.

You lack reading comprehension! Keep your head in the sand

[ToddZ]

Mazara being out of the pool should not impact properly constructed bid strings.

His being ruled ineligible has the same repercussions as if you were topped in the bidding and didn't get him. The strings should be set up accordingly -- in such a way that you're covered if you get him and if you don't.

If your bids were affected by his being pulled, you didn't set them up in the event someone else in your league beat your bid.

[Gekko]

So if someone valued mazara as the most important pickup at $800, are u telling me winning or losing an $800 bid wouldn't Impact his 4 other bid streams???? Do you guys live in Colorado?

[BK METS]

Mazara being out of the pool should not impact properly constructed bid strings.

His being ruled ineligible has the same repercussions as if you were topped in the bidding and didn't get him. The strings should be set up accordingly -- in such a way that you're covered if you get him and if you don't.

If your bids were affected by his being pulled, you didn't set them up in the event someone else in your league beat your bid.

Exactly.. Not sure why we would have to spell it out for Mr DC, but at least a brilliant mind like Lord Zola can back up a novice like myself.

[BK METS]

So if someone valued mazara as the most important pickup at $800, are u telling me winning or losing an $800 bid wouldn't Impact his 4 other bid streams???? Do you guys live in Colorado?

[ToddZ]

So if someone valued mazara as the most important pickup at $800, are u telling me winning or losing an $800 bid wouldn't Impact his 4 other bid streams???? Do you guys live in Colorado?

I'm saying the bids should have been constructed in such a manner that the ensuing bids would go one way if you win the bid and another if you lose it. Having no drops makes it a bit more tedious as clever drops are the easiest was to direct it in other leagues (string with a player already dropped is ignored) but it can be done.

[lrr]

I bid 1000 on Mazara. I had to win him -- right. Oh no he wasn't available. I didn't really do that but it could have happened. Someone bid 1000 on Trevor Story.

[BK METS]

I bid 1000 on Mazara. I had to win him -- right. Oh no he wasn't available. I didn't really do that but it could have happened. Someone bid 1000 on Trevor Story.

As I mentioned in another thread, bidding $1,000 on anyone is foolish, when you have the opportunity to add 10 roster spots in an optimal format. Percentages say that quantity is more valuable in the optimum format, than in a regular format. Your number 13 pitcher could be your number 1-9 pitcher during any given week. The more players you have rostered, the more opportunity for nominal players being your top weekly scoring performers at a position. If you just added Story for $1,000, you are losing 9 valuable roster spots or injury replacements. Who knows, maybe the guy that bid $1,000 on Story, wins the top prize. But, percentages say that having more options at every position gives you more of a weekly opportunity for maximum scoring.

[BK METS]

I will explain my line of thinking for the cutline FAAB. When 50 or more players are being picked up, at minimum, in one free agent period, there would be no reason to limit your top bids of all of your threads, to $1,000 combined. But, structure your threads based upon assuming you don't get your top guy. If you do get him, you need alternative options for other threads, since you won't get your top guy in those threads. But, there is no reason why you cannot max out your bids on the guys you want, hoping you at least get one of them.

Here is a breakdown of one of my FAAB threads... players are not actual....


Thread 1

Mazara - $860
Story - $755 (max bid I am willing to go, whether Mazara is available or not)
Holt - $411 (max bid I am willing to go, whether Mazara is available or not)
White - $212 (same)
Rickard - $112 (same)
Rosario - $86
Villar - $44
Gennett - $32
Ahmed - $22
20 other players - $1 or $2

Thread 2 and thread 4

Velasquez - $182 (Max, whether Mazara is available or not - With Mazara N/A, I still get my top 2 guys, if I win with Story)
Finnegan - $102 (If Mazara is available and I am top bid, I get him and Finnegan. If not available, then Story/Finnegan)
Nicasio - $68 (another option with Mazara)
10 other pitchers - $20-40
10 other pitchers - $1 or $2

Thread 3 and 5

Likely that Mazara (if available) and Story are gone by thread 3.

White - $212 (even though top bids add up to over $1,000, if White is still available, combo with Holt and Velasquez likely)
Rickard - $112 (If I did get Mazara, I can combo with Rickard here, based upon which pitcher I get)
Continue with same conditional bids as thread 1

Point is, there is absolutely no reason you cant bid top $ on all of the guys you want, as long as you have alternatives if you do or don't get your top guy. And if you bid $1,000 on someone, then that is on you. Might as well just have one thread.

So, in the situation with Mazara, I bid big $ on Mazara, but it didnt eliminate me from bidding on and getting Story, White, or whoever else I wanted, since I had an alternative plan if I didnt get Mazara or in this instance, he wasnt available. If you are assuming you are going to get your top guy, then that would be your biggest mistake. I could have assumed that I would get Story at $744 in one league, but someone bid $1,000. So does that mean that I didnt have a backup plan? I still got Holt, White, and Rickard, with a good amount left over.

There are other strategies in regular FAAB leagues, with drops, but when you don't have to drop anyone and you are just filling an extra roster spot, you want to structure it to get the positions and combination of players you need to fill in holes.

So, in the end, bidding top $ on Mazara did not preclude me from bidding on and getting other top guys.

[lrr]

I'll try one more. I'm all in on Mazara. That's my strategy. I'll bid 950 on him. It leaves me 50 if I get him. I am not going to drop a player so I have four other bid streams to get 4 players with my 50. I will list four bid streams consisting of many many 12 dollar players . I am looking for any good player who falls through the cracks for my 12 dollars. At the end I get Mazara and four 12 dollar players. I'm satisfied. What would you have me do in the four cheaply bid streams. If I don't get Mazara, it's a disaster but that was my strategy. If you tell me I should list Hazelbaker at 200 in my second stream just in case I don't get Mazara, I say I wanted to put him at 12 just in case he fell through the cracks. My first stream affected the other four. I think? What did I do wrong if this was my strategy? I understand what you are saying but I think more people would do what I have given as an example than yours. With that said, the Cutline created a new FAAB strategy. I agree with you on that and I may have to use your approach in the future as foreign as it is to me.

[BK METS]

I'll try one more. I'm all in on Mazara. That's my strategy. I'll bid 950 on him. It leaves me 50 if I get him. I am not going to drop a player so I have four other bid streams to get 4 players with my 50. I will list four bid streams consisting of many many 12 dollar players . I am looking for any good player who falls through the cracks for my 12 dollars. At the end I get Mazara and four 12 dollar players. I'm satisfied. What would you have me do in the four cheaply bid streams. If I don't get Mazara, it's a disaster but that was my strategy. If you tell me I should list Hazelbaker at 200 in my second stream just in case I don't get Mazara, I say I wanted to put him at 12 just in case he fell through the cracks. My first stream affected the other four. I think? What did I do wrong if this was my strategy? I understand what you are saying but I think more people would do what I have given as an example than yours. With that said, the Cutline created a new FAAB strategy. I agree with you on that and I may have to use your approach in the future as foreign as it is to me.

Are you saying you dont have any backup bids for Mazara? What if someone did bid $1,000 on him and he was available? Are you saying you only have a total of $50 for the other 4 threads? If you are limiting your other threads to $50 and no backup bids on your top guy, that would be a mistake..I explained in more detail above.

[lrr]

In my first thread, there would be many players listed under Mazara in the 300 to 500 range. So I am getting one top player in my first thread. The issue I have is the construction of the next four threads, the one I call the cheaply threads. There I assume I got Mazara and have only 50 dollars left to work with. This is the way I have always done it.

[BK METS]

In my first thread, there would be many players listed under Mazara in the 300 to 500 range. So I am getting one top player in my first thread. The issue I have is the construction of the next four threads, the one I call the cheaply threads. There I assume I got Mazara and have only 50 dollars left to work with. This is the way I have always done it.

I am just trying to get you to think the other way... what if you dont get him? Why make the other threads cheapy threads? There is nothing in the rules saying you have to keep your top bids totaling under $1,000. You are not getting all of your top guys in this format anyways. Your conditional bids are not just conditional in that particular thread, but conditional to what you get in earlier threads. If you get your 3rd rated guy in your first thread, then you need an alternative plan with bigger dollar guys in remaining threads.

I want to get the best 5 guys to help me... If its 1 top guy and 4 lower priced guys or 5 mid priced guys, I need to structure my threads accordingly.

[Daren E]

Wow this is getting complicated to follow. I am an engineer with a math minor but it's obvious I need Stephen hawking to figure out how to optimize my bids whether player x is eligible in FAAB or not.

[Gb2715]

BK Mets I understand what you are saying and I did my bids like you until I got frustrated and bored! Lol
But my point is most people don't think like that and that was the issue. Most people stay under the $1000 not realizing they can go over I had Nicasio in my bid streams for 5 different prices. But to say it shouldn't have affected anyone is technically correct doesn't mean it didn't affect people. Lots of people were screwed over by this mistake and no matter what the decision or outcome is, was or will be will and should be upset. And the rules state argument while it "technically" is the rules the system set in place made an error and did affect the way people bid and accounted for their budget. Technically the rules also state once a player has played their first game they are eligible so if you take out the first sentence of FA locking at 7am Sunday then he would have been available for FAAB on Monday which is when the cut line FAAB was ran. People and the "NFBC system" believed he was available. To say it didn't affect people is irresponsible. Honestly it really didn't affect me much other than maybe I got a player I wouldn't have if Mazara wasn't in the player pool but my opinion on the only fair way to handle it would have been to push back the FAAB 24 hrs.

[Gekko]

Wow this is getting complicated to follow. I am an engineer with a math minor but it's obvious I need Stephen hawking to figure out how to optimize my bids whether player x is eligible in FAAB or not.

LOL. Imagine an owner with 10 cutline a leagues faced with handling the mazara and m.smith situations. Setting up countless bids based on whether they got this guys or not across 10 teams. Insulting and foolish to say it would not impact an owner.

Obviously some owners have a different viewpoint and I'm sure they are a lot more successful than me utilizing FAAB

[Greg Ambrosius]

You guys are spending more time arguing about this than some folks spent making their Cutline bids. The bottom line is that we created extra work and extra problems for everyone and the blame is on us.

But this is exactly why we would never open free agency through Monday for this contest. We don't want you continually updating your FAAB lists because new players just entered the pool on a Monday. The free agent pool is locked as of Sunday at 7 am ET and you now have the rest of the time to set your FAAB bids by Monday night. What's in the pool on Sunday morning is done, so bid accordingly. The fact that we altered that on Monday morning was our fault and won't happen again.

I certainly see the extra issues that were caused. It wasn't our intention and we won't let it happen again.

[BK METS]

BK Mets I understand what you are saying and I did my bids like you until I got frustrated and bored! Lol
But my point is most people don't think like that and that was the issue. Most people stay under the $1000 not realizing they can go over I had Nicasio in my bid streams for 5 different prices. But to say it shouldn't have affected anyone is technically correct doesn't mean it didn't affect people. Lots of people were screwed over by this mistake and no matter what the decision or outcome is, was or will be will and should be upset. And the rules state argument while it "technically" is the rules the system set in place made an error and did affect the way people bid and accounted for their budget. Technically the rules also state once a player has played their first game they are eligible so if you take out the first sentence of FA locking at 7am Sunday then he would have been available for FAAB on Monday which is when the cut line FAAB was ran. People and the "NFBC system" believed he was available. To say it didn't affect people is irresponsible. Honestly it really didn't affect me much other than maybe I got a player I wouldn't have if Mazara wasn't in the player pool but my opinion on the only fair way to handle it would have been to push back the FAAB 24 hrs.

My point was very simple. Losing out on one player should not effect how much you bid on other players. Just trying to illustrate that it shouldn't if you bid accordingly. Not that complicated.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Sometimes, I feel sorry for the dead horse....

[Gekko]

Sometimes, I feel sorry for the dead horse....

Or a dead Sano/Buxton

[DOUGHBOYS]

Not to change the subject (an outright lie), I was a little surprised that Buxton broke camp with the Twins.
When youngsters appear at the Major League level, they show signs in whether belonging or not.
I've never seen those signs from Buxton. I see the talent, sure. But he hasn't 'clicked' at the big level.
I believe he needs more time in the Minors.
To get this subject back on track, sorta, Mazara has shown more than Buxton in less time.