Slow pokes and Draft Champion Leagues

[Gekko]

Here is the simple and hard truth about 4-hour draft champion leagues. In order to keep a draft enjoyable for most or all drafters, it needs to flow smoothly. what does that mean? for me, a draft should be completed in 3 weeks. obviously, you may have a different opinion.

for a draft to get done in 3 weeks, a pick needs to be made every 27 minutes on average (the math is at the end of this post). if you want a draft to take 4 weeks to complete, a pick needs to be made every 36 minutes on average.

every owner taking more than 27 minutes (on average) to make a selection relies on other owners to make selections in less than 27 minutes; otherwise the draft would take longer than 3 weeks. simply put, slow poke drafters only exist because other owners use auto draft and/or make their selections quickly.

within the past week, i've twice gone a day without making a pick. this is utterly ridiculous. who would want to pay money for an experience like that? therefore, from here on out, i'm done with 4 hour draft champion leagues, until there is a way to either get rid of the trash owners or a way to make them speed up (chess clock).

NFBC - Slow pokes are costing you my money and likely others as well

*******************************************************************************************************************************************************
21 days to complete draft
750 total picks made
36 picks/day need to be made
16 hours/day the clock is running
this means...2.2 picks must be made per hour = 1 pick every 27 minutes

[Steel Lugnuts]

I have a feeling you weren't a big fan of the 8-hr timer!

I have no issues, if I did, I would join the express drafts...but that won't happen because I work and travel quite a bit. I have no issues with these drafts taking about 3-weeks (although the 4hr timer should make these closer to 2-weeks I would imagine), that seems about average. You've been doing this long enough, not sure why you are surprised when some drafts take longer than expected.

[Doctor Who]

Mark,

The DC leagues imo is a masses contest. I feel like this is where they get all their intro business bc of the low price point, and if had to guess, more money comes from new entries than vet entries on a yearly basis. With all that said, I get the frustrations you and others have as far as the clock goes and don’t think that will change in the near future of this year. You use it as prep, while new customers probably have it as their main league for the year. While you put up $ in bigger drafts, others that play in the DC probably don’t because they aren’t as hardcore as the vets and don’t get that not picking fast is a big deal. Just my opinion though.

[Gekko]

sounds like the NFBC doesn't need "vet money" in the 4 hour DC leagues.

once they get an avg time per pick per owner posted, i can cherry pick leagues if i need to. let all the slow bastards be in leagues by themselves. draft would take 2-3 months to complete. they can get exactly what they deserve

[Steel Lugnuts]

sounds like the NFBC doesn't need "vet money" in the 4 hour DC leagues.

once they get an avg time per pick per owner posted, i can cherry pick leagues if i need to. let all the slow bastards be in leagues by themselves. draft would take 2-3 months to complete. they can get exactly what they deserve

Why people, especially "vets", complain when a slow draft takes awhile to complete is beyond me, just join an express and stop complaining! I've been in some leagues with you and usually agree with your opinion, but you're way out of bounds on this "rant", sorry!

[Gekko]

sounds like the NFBC doesn't need "vet money" in the 4 hour DC leagues.

once they get an avg time per pick per owner posted, i can cherry pick leagues if i need to. let all the slow bastards be in leagues by themselves. draft would take 2-3 months to complete. they can get exactly what they deserve

Why people, especially "vets", complain when a slow draft takes awhile to complete is beyond me, just join an express and stop complaining! I've been in some leagues with you and usually agree with your opinion, but you're way out of bounds on this "rant", sorry!

so according to you, owners (esp vets) should not have an expectation of making a pick in a 24 hour period? if you really mean that, maybe you should propose the NFBC change their DC marketing slogan to...
"Sign up for a Draft Champions league where you may not make a pick in a 24 hour period, and if you're lucky that situation will happen multiple times to you".

ya, sounds like you got a real winner there

[Gekko]

Why people, especially "vets", complain when a slow draft takes awhile to complete is beyond me, just join an express and stop complaining! I've been in some leagues with you and usually agree with your opinion, but you're way out of bounds on this "rant", sorry!

just curious, would you publicly support an owner who took the entire 4 hours with every one of his picks?

[Steel Lugnuts]

Why people, especially "vets", complain when a slow draft takes awhile to complete is beyond me, just join an express and stop complaining! I've been in some leagues with you and usually agree with your opinion, but you're way out of bounds on this "rant", sorry!

just curious, would you publicly support an owner who took the entire 4 hours with every one of his picks?

Publicly support? Hell no! lol But I've been in a few 8-hr drafts where an owner purposely took the full 8-hrs and the draft lasted almost 4-weeks. Sounds like you're in, or were in, a draft with a bad owner.

NFBC has done a lot to make these DC Leagues work, from changing the draft timer from 8-hr to 4, and offering up express drafts, etc...for those like yourself that can't take a draft lasting more than 3-weeks. For you to start a thread on this is ridiculous IMO.

I still respect your drafting acumen, been schooled by you a few times!

Good luck moving forward Mark, may you find peace in drafting in the days/months ahead!

[COZ]

Why people, especially "vets", complain when a slow draft takes awhile to complete is beyond me, just join an express and stop complaining! I've been in some leagues with you and usually agree with your opinion, but you're way out of bounds on this "rant", sorry!

Why people defend those who hold a draft hostage & blame those who simply want to draft is beyond me. The purpose of signing up for a draft is TO DRAFT. Blaming the guy who calls out slow drafters is the same kind of passive-aggressiveness that causes someone to intentionally time-out simply because league mates complain about their delays. I totally agree that 3 weeks to complete a DC & 2-3 rounds per day should be the minimal expectation. Not a having a pick within a 24 hour period is unacceptable. The fact is that its always the same 1or 2 guys who consistently hold a draft hostage, refuse to communicate & lead to a miserable draft experience. Thankfully, I've avoided these terrorists thus far this year in the early DC's, but I understand the frustration. Much like in society, it's always those who follow the rules & are respectful to others that have to abide those who lack the basic inter-personal necessities of respect & empathy toward others required in a shared community experience. But yeah, go ahead & blame the guy who calls them out simply because he's excited to draft & tell him to join an express draft. Typical.

[mkieffer]

I don't really have a strong opinion either way, and maybe I will regret jumping in but.... What's the point of having an 8 hr or 4hr clock if people can't use it? I haven't done a DC yet this year, but there are often days at work I can't get in front of the computer for a couple of hours. Part of me wants to do a DC because it's hard to find the time to sit through several hours of 50 rounds of the draft, but the other part of me is afraid to join because someone is going to get pissed if I have something going on right away and don't pick.

[acesfull23]

Am I crazy for disagreeing with all these “DC’s are too slow and that is a problem” posts? The whole premise of the slow draft is that it accommodates those that aren’t able to be married to a computer or drafting device constantly to draft a team. I’ve done 8 or so of these and will readily admit it’s frustrating when i’m ready to go and others are away. But guess what...that’s what I signed up for. If you don’t want to spend four weeks or whatever drafting a team then don’t play Slow drafts. If you like the DC format they run scheduled drafts for those in March.

I don’t understand the significance of a draft getting done in three weeks versus four. Maybe somebody can explain to me why that extra week of drafting two players per day is such a hindrance to happiness.

Bryan

[Gekko]

in current draft, we have one owner who used up his 4 hours in round 35, used up his 4 hours in round 36 and is currently on his way to using 12 hours (8 hour sleep clock AND the 4 hours he normally gets) in the 37th round.

once the NFBC publishes avg pick time per owner, owners like this will be avoided like the plague. if a "slow" owner is the first signup for a new DC league, the NFBC may never sell out that league. and at that point, all the "bleeding hearts" will have thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

[Bronx Yankees]

A couple of quick thoughts on the topic:

1. People join drafts to draft. It is no fun if a draft progresses at a snail's pace. Going an entire day without getting to make a single pick is ridiculous.

2. When you are on the clock, the other 14 owners are waiting on you. Sometimes, an owner will not be able to pick right away. Fine, but don't forget that others are waiting on you, and a little courtesy (in both directions) goes a long way.

3. Every now and then, the unexpected happens, and certain folks will not be able to pick right away. Hey, shit happens. Most people understand. Importantly, however, that should be the exception, not the norm.

4. If you are joining a draft, follow it. The NFBC sends out e-mails after every pick. Selections can be made on a desktop computer, laptop, tablet and smart phone. I'm guessing everyone joining drafts has at least one if not multiple of these.

5. A little communication can go a long way. If you are going to be tied up for a spell (work meeting, date, whatever), take 10 lousy seconds and post a note in the chatroom (e.g., Sorry, folks, will be unavailable from 3-5 pm EST today). At least this way, the other 14 owners are on notice that no picks will be made for those two hours and can take a break from following the draft and waiting on you. In my experience, when folks communicate, there are far fewer issues. When folks repeatedly fail to pick timely AND fail to communicate at all, that's when issues arise and the fun and momentum of a draft are killed.

6. Auto Pick really works. I get it, there may be a reluctance to go on Auto for more than one round in the current set-up. It also is tougher for folks on the end to use Auto. For folks in or near the middle, how tough is it to put a few guys in your queue and set Auto One if unavailable for a few hours? This is especially true as we get later in the draft. Do you really need to keep 14 other owners waiting 3-4 hours to make your Round 43 pick?

For folks preferring a faster drafting experience, I encourage you to give the fast drafts that Mike Massotto (Baseball Furies) and Dan Kenyon (Doughboys) organize periodically a try. Yes, the competition may be a little tougher , but the drafting experience is a lot of fun.

Mike

[Gekko]

A couple of quick thoughts on the topic:

1. People join drafts to draft. It is no fun if a draft progresses at a snail's pace. Going an entire day without getting to make a single pick Is ridiculous.

Mike

My last pick was at 9.31am yesterday morning. Still 8 more owners to get through until I pick again.

The NFBC has been fantastic in implementing measures to move these drafts along; however when you get a couple owners who don’t give a shit, it won’t matter. The draft goes off the rails and the NFBC is left with frustrated customers. If that is the goal of these slow drafters...mission accomplished.

Any thought to lessening the clock to 2 hours per pick from rounds 30-50? I’m sure the “bleeding hearts” would view this as a threat to their existence

[Outlaw]

lol- Lets have a Vets Draft!!! ? is who determines who is a Vet? I'm Navy!

[Thurman15]

I agree with Bronx Yankees. And although he may be a touch aggressive in his comments, I mostly agree with Gekko. In a nutshell, they are asking to respect the other drafters. And I agree with them. For a drafter to take the limit occasionally is acceptable, but to do it regularly is not, in my opinion. The use of auto pick from your queu means you are getting players that YOU want, not random players. So why not use it if you are going to be busy for a period of time. Respect the draft and respect the participants.

And I'm sorry to those that disagree but I'm almost certain that the large majority prefer quicker drafts. I would bet that a 2 or 3 hour limit would sell out much quicker than a 4 hour, and I will make a prediction that the 8 hour limit is going the way of the Dodo bird. I'm talking ALL fantasy web sites. At any rate, we all have our opinions but we (collectively) need to satisfy the majority. If I believe strongly that a certain rule is bad for a draft, but the majority think it is good, then I would expect (and accept) that the NFBC would go against my thought/suggestion.

3 weeks till Spring Training guys, lets be happy. And for those that have drafted....good job....you are tied for 1st place.

[Gates]

Mike hit it on the nail there. To a çertain extend I understand the slow drafting from some but my biggest irritant his corner teams taking 2-3 hours between picks... My last Cutline, believe it or not both corners did it. They would take a couple of hours making the first pick, than vanish for 2-3 hours and finally back to make their second pick. They did it both 5 to 8 Times each out of 21 double picks (42 rounds).

Gaëtan

[King of Queens]

Any thought to lessening the clock to 2 hours per pick from rounds 30-50? I’m sure the “bleeding hearts” would view this as a threat to their existence

I have no idea if it can be programmed, but this is an excellent suggestion by Mark. The NFL does something similar with their annual draft (1st round is 10 minutes, 2nd round is 7 minutes, and 3rd through 7th rounds are 5 minutes).

I'm guessing that a number of "bleeding heart slow pokes" simply don't care about their late picks, lose interest, etc. The few should not ruin it for the many.

[Yah Mule]

The frustrating thing when someone times out is they're going to get exactly the same player they would have if they put themselves on auto one. I use auto one frequently, but when I get into drafts with people who drag down the pace, I wind up making practically all of my picks on auto. Otherwise, I'm forced to keep checking back as the clock grinds down to zero repeatedly. The message board is the same way. I try to be conscientious and communicate if I'm going to be in the wind for a certain period of time early in a draft and I prefer not to use auto. But after seeing people disappear without a word over and over, I feel like a fool even bothering to post anything.

Is everyone aware that you can get emails sent to you when it's your turn to pick? There's a small gear shaped icon in the upper right corner that lets you change your settings. Why people choose not to avail themselves of tools like email alerts, auto one or the message board is a mystery. It seems to indicate a disregard for your fellow competitors.

I've gotten a lot more zen this year. I've realized that draft champion leagues are going to attract a certain percentage of people who simply don't care about anyone else's time. And a smaller percentage who quickly form grudges and service them through passive aggressive behavior.

[Darik B]

This a a very nice idea...we have a meeting today where we will discuss this with the IT guys. I'm not sure if possible, but we shall see. Stay tuned...

Any thought to lessening the clock to 2 hours per pick from rounds 30-50? I’m sure the “bleeding hearts” would view this as a threat to their existence

I have no idea if it can be programmed, but this is an excellent suggestion by Mark. The NFL does something similar with their annual draft (1st round is 10 minutes, 2nd round is 7 minutes, and 3rd through 7th rounds are 5 minutes).

I'm guessing that a number of "bleeding heart slow pokes" simply don't care about their late picks, lose interest, etc. The few should not ruin it for the many.

[Fourslot40]

I'll throw myself on the grenade here because the league being referenced is the league I'm also in and I slacked this weekend. Usually, I'm quick in all of my drafts and I've paid close attention to this one up until this weekend when I literally forgot that there was a draft still going on. No excuses, no intent to hold anyone up. My bad. This is sort of why I stopped doing DC's. It's not worth the trouble.

[rkulaski]

Any thought to lessening the clock to 2 hours per pick from rounds 30-50? I’m sure the “bleeding hearts” would view this as a threat to their existence

I have no idea if it can be programmed, but this is an excellent suggestion by Mark. The NFL does something similar with their annual draft (1st round is 10 minutes, 2nd round is 7 minutes, and 3rd through 7th rounds are 5 minutes).

I'm guessing that a number of "bleeding heart slow pokes" simply don't care about their late picks, lose interest, etc. The few should not ruin it for the many.

I also like this idea. I think some drafters lose interest after round 30 and especially after round 35. Some go to auto. Others start taking longer times to pick likely because they aren't checking the draft as frequently anymore.

[MadCow Sez]

Painful.

DC portion of auction I'm in from 14 Jan (round 39) is 9 picks from passing DC portion of auction 7 Jan (round 40). We have a guy in the 7 Jan who just let 4 hours expire and is working on it again after making a turn. He times out at 10:31 PM tonight. Glad I have the Mia league and respectful league mates to look forward to.

Add me to the list of people who want an average time/pick shown. I've kept my flow rolling even while escaping for multi-hour trail runs. Discourtesy from league members via absolute lack of communication is uncalled for.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Agreed Dan.
It seems a lot of folks want to sign up for the auction, then tank the draft process of the rounds in the draft room.
These picks should only be one hour.
It is not the highlight of the draft and should be disposed of in a quick manner.
Four hours a pick after already having a starting roster is not needed.
Four hours does not need to be the time for every pick and every draft.

[meanguy]

The chess clock is a fine suggestion but I think the solution can be even simple- add a standard 2 hour daytime clock next year. 2 hours is a LONG time during the day. Especially now, with people not being able to function without looking at their phone every 2 minutes. If you're to busy to regularly make picks within 2 hours (especially with the 1 RD auto feature), you're too busy to be playing fantasy baseball.