One (more) Vote for BBDS

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:31 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by Quahogs:

GG - doesnt BBDS with FAAB $ create an unequal starting point for a contest (25 leagues competing with each other) such as this ? Right now at the start of the season every league has $15,000 available dollars for FA's. With FAAB BBDS some leagues may have drained $2500 from that pool leaving $12,500 available. Others maybe only $500 leaving $14,500. In your eyes do you think it's still a fair starting point where some with $1000 compete in a $12,500 pool while others compete in a $14,500 pool ?

Q Q - It's all relative, so it doesn't really matter does it? If everyone in League A starts with $1,000 and everyone in Lge B starts with $500, it wouldn't have any effect because players are bid against the league only, not against other leagues that may have more money. Am I missing something? [/QUOTE]Not true Kevin. Not everyone in League B would have $500. That's the problem with this format. It wouldn't be a level playing field with all 25 leagues if some owners started off in better shape with more FAAB money. I don't want to interview the overall champion and ask him/her how he/she won the title this year and have him say, "Because everyone in my league blew their FAAB money on positions and I had my way all year long with free agent pickups."

Wow, would that ever help the contest grow!!

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:33 am

Originally posted by freddiezee:

With what Tom was saying about entering KDS incorrectly, I realized after reading his post that I totally made that mistake for my satellite league this year. I ended up with pick 6, which was my 5th choice, but I had incorrectly entered it as my 2nd choice, because I entered a 2 in the box across from it (pick 2 was my 6th choice). It's not too big of a loss, getting your 5th choice of selections. But, I can see how others could have done that. I definitely won't make that mistake again, but maybe a draft preference confirmation email might be a good idea.

I'll never know what order my name was drawn in, but if it was the 2nd, 3rd or 4th name chosen I would have had a different pick had I done it properly. What's really ironic is that had I not even bothered to go in and rank my choices, I would have ended up with a pick that I like better.

Oh well, what's that ancient proverb.....be careful what you wish for you just might get it.

KDS was like my first girlfriend......I knew what I wanted and I got it.....unfortunately I didn't know how to use it very well! This was what several owners did and we couldn't see that of course by your settings. We have asked STATS to remove one of the columns -- like we have it in the NFFC -- for next year and just have you list your preferences in order. Right now the KDS format with two columns is confusing and it obviously played a role in some owners hating their draft picks. We apologize for that.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:35 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

I know we've been through this many times, but once more won't hurt. All the "reasons" people give against bbds are horeshitt and don't hold up against scrutiny.

Imagine allocating free agents by using KDS. The system would be considered a JOKE That's not a very nice thing to say about my observations, which of course are not parallel to yours. Fortunately, I make the decisions in this family!

Bull Pen Pugs · Post by **Bull Pen Pugs** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:39 am

Wow, using FAAB money for draft slot? LOL no way. League this big -level playing ground required across the board and others will not join due to that policy.

Looks like peeeps are just unhappy with their random drafts spot and looking for advantages to pick #1 or higher.... Hmmm, that aint right gents.

Nutty Scrats · Post by **Nutty Scrats** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:52 am

I think I'm gonna need some more popcorn for this one! ROFLMFAO

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:52 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by Quahogs:

GG - doesnt BBDS with FAAB $ create an unequal starting point for a contest (25 leagues competing with each other) such as this ? Right now at the start of the season every league has $15,000 available dollars for FA's. With FAAB BBDS some leagues may have drained $2500 from that pool leaving $12,500 available. Others maybe only $500 leaving $14,500. In your eyes do you think it's still a fair starting point where some with $1000 compete in a $12,500 pool while others compete in a $14,500 pool ?

Q Q - It's all relative, so it doesn't really matter does it? If everyone in League A starts with $1,000 and everyone in Lge B starts with $500, it wouldn't have any effect because players are bid against the league only, not against other leagues that may have more money. Am I missing something? [/QUOTE]Not true Kevin. Not everyone in League B would have $500. That's the problem with this format. It wouldn't be a level playing field with all 25 leagues if some owners started off in better shape with more FAAB money. I don't want to interview the overall champion and ask him/her how he/she won the title this year and have him say, "Because everyone in my league blew their FAAB money on positions and I had my way all year long with free agent pickups."

Wow, would that ever help the contest grow!!

[/QUOTE]Would it be better somehow if he said 'thank god I got the #1 pick as took me to victory as I knew picking first would let me get him'????

I truly don't understand the argument about people wasting all their FAAB. It is like the US government saying 18 year olds are mature enough to fight and carry automatic weapons, but can't drink a beer.

Anyway, Greg, you seem pretty tired / upset today I hope you are ok

Spy

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:00 pm

okay,

1) i'm not the person who started the thread

2) people (UFS) want to bash BBDS, go for it, but i should be able to bash back without being thrown under the bus or be made to look like the bad guy or the guy who is draining all of greg's energy

3) the reasons i've heard against BBDS don't carry much weight with me. that's my opinion, and i believe it to be 'spot on'. i know greg and some others may feel differently, and that's fine.

[ March 21, 2007, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:02 pm

Originally posted by UFS:

I'll say it one last time and PLEASE comment on this only.

I'm not paying $1300 year after year to be pegged into slots 9-13 when I KNOW that FAAB is more valuable than the draft slots.

i'm not sure why you'd be lumped into slots 9-13 year after year. do you know something the rest of us don't? couldn't there be a consensus top 10 players or even top 13 players some years?

furthermore, what about the people who aren't going to pay $1,300 year after year to be pegged into your dreaded "slots 9-13" due to random/KDS?

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:06 pm

don't worry spy- that theory will be tested next year in football because of ladanian winners this year. i see both sides of this. i think the debate should be resumed around november ist. mr. van hook did a vegas auction for draft slots- using REAL $ for wcoff. those $ went to the league prize fund. the guys who saved their $ did real well. i think that type of league could be set up for baseball- young, gecko and usf should be in it- and greg could be grand marshall and sell tickets to view it. the serpentine auction league.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:07 pm

Originally posted by headhunters:

young, gecko and usf should be in it- and greg could be grand marshall and sell tickets to view it. the serpentine auction league. listen, young and ufs couldn't even come close to beating me in baseball or football, even if they started with poodles in baseball or tomlinson in football

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:14 pm

Originally posted by King of Queens:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Imagine allocating free agents by using KDS. The system would be considered a JOKE How exactly would KDS work with free agents? Wouldn't everyone want their first choice, then their second choice, their third, etc.? [/QUOTE]greg or the computer RANDOMLY determines which owner in each league gets to start the weekly free agent pickups. let's say i'm randomly chosen #1. my free agent KDS preferences are:

KDS Preference #1 Pickup B.Bonds

KDS Preference #2 Pickup M.Ensberg

.

.

.

KDS Preference #14 Pickup M.Alou

KDS Preference #15 Pickup S.Green

since i was randomly picked to go first, i'd get my first preference...B.Bonds

let's say King of Queens's name was chosen 2nd, and his KDS preferences were the same as mine:

KDS Preference #1 Pickup B.Bonds

KDS Preference #2 Pickup M.Ensberg

.

.

.

KDS Preference #14 Pickup M.Alou

KDS Preference #15 Pickup S.Green

since Bonds already went to me, you'd get ensberg. make sense

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:19 pm

Personally, I expect we will stick with KDS until something happens like Pujolis steals 30 bases and hits 60 hrs, hits .360, and has 170 RBIs. Or perhaps Reyes has a 40hr, 70SB year and it becomes clear that having the #1 pick and the #31 pick is incredibly more valuable than the #15 and #16. Or even that there are 3 super stars who are head and shoulders above the rest. Then I expect people will say 'why should I not get a chance to have at the top x players' and the system will change

Regards Spy

Nevadaman · Post by **Nevadaman** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:19 pm

Hey guys, check out my new post on this topic. I believe I have a credible solution to this long running issue!

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:24 pm

i like that idea

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:28 pm

Originally posted by Vander:

I just checked it and it is the way I thought it was. However, I'm the idiot. I was looking at it the wrong way. Therefore I entered my preferances wrong. I apologise to anybody I may have offended. I apparently can't read. Most of you probably already know I can't spell. I am to blame for the bad rankings. ditto for me to. i checked mine and i DID enter them wrong.

silly me thought under the heading of "Your Preference" to list the draft slots in order of how i preferred them. i wonder how many other people entered them incorrectly? for me, i think i still woulda got the same spot, but for Kevin to get spot 6, when it was his 13th preference seems odd. Kev - did you enter it wrong too?

[ March 21, 2007, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:36 pm

I have talked to several people today that have done it wrong. I think this problem is bigger and more wide spread than anyone knows.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:50 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by UFS:

I'll say it one last time and PLEASE comment on this only.

I'm not paying $1300 year after year to be pegged into slots 9-13 when I KNOW that FAAB is more valuable than the draft slots.

i'm not sure why you'd be lumped into slots 9-13 year after year. do you know something the rest of us don't? couldn't there be a consensus top 10 players or even top 13 players some years?

furthermore, what about the people who aren't going to pay $1,300 year after year to be pegged into your dreaded "slots 9-13" due to random/KDS? [/QUOTE]John, I got my 13th choice - slot #6, if this were BBDS it probably would have cost me somewhere between $0 and $2 for my 13th choice. I think that is pretty strong evidence that the odds of you getting slot 9-13 for fifteen straight years would be somewhere between: A) your laptop magically picking the perfect team, and, B) Gekko coming out and saying he was just kidding all these years, and he secretly just wants to get lucky with a random selection (like you

).

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:15 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Not true Kevin. Not everyone in League B would have $500. That's the problem with this format. It wouldn't be a level playing field with all 25 leagues if some owners started off in better shape with more FAAB money. I don't want to interview the overall champion and ask him/her how he/she won the title this year and have him say, "Because everyone in my league blew their FAAB money on positions and I had my way all year long with free agent pickups."

Wow, would that ever help the contest grow!!

[/QB]Greg, I am fine with KDS in Bsbl and KDS/3RR in Ftbl, but I don't understand how it is a bigger disadvantage to start with less FAAB than it is to start with lesser draft picks in the first few rounds. Yes, less FAAB is worse than more. But isn't Mark Texiera also worse than Albert Pujols?

Bidding for slots is a market-based solution, random selection is not, which makes BBDS a flat out more balanced, equivalent approach. You don't have to give up even $1 of FAAB if you're so inclined and you are happy to have an FAAB edge while starting your team with Texiera rather than Pujols.

I am not trying to re-open this issue, as what we have in place is decent, but the ONLY argument against BBDS that holds any water IMO is that a percentage of players could be against it, at least initially, and you might lose a few signups. Of course, you might gain some too.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:17 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Vander:

I just checked it and it is the way I thought it was. However, I'm the idiot. I was looking at it the wrong way. Therefore I entered my preferances wrong. I apologise to anybody I may have offended. I apparently can't read. Most of you probably already know I can't spell. I am to blame for the bad rankings. ditto for me to. i checked mine and i DID enter them wrong.

silly me thought under the heading of "Your Preference" to list the draft slots in order of how i preferred them. i wonder how many other people entered them incorrectly? for me, i think i still woulda got the same spot, but for Kevin to get spot 6, when it was his 13th preference seems odd. Kev - did you enter it wrong too? [/QUOTE]The "Draft Preference" option is no longer listed for my main event or satellite teams. However, it still appears for my Ultimate team. I am looking at it right now to figure out what happened to some owners, perhaps myself as well.

There are two columns, one marked Draft Position and the other Your Preference. The Draft Position goes from 1 to 15, which I assume refers to draft positions 1, 2, 3...14, 15. Next to each draft position, under the Your Preference heading, are 15 pulldown tabs. My understanding was/is that the pulldown tab corresponded to where you ranked the draft position next to it. Thus, if my KDS appeared on the STATS webpage as follows:

Draft Position Your Preference

1 1

2 6

3 5

4 4

5 2

6 3

7 11

8 15

9 14

10 13

11 12

12 10

13 9

14 8

15 7

then my first preference would be for the 1st spot, my second preference would be for the 5th spot, my third preference would be for the 6th spot, and so on.

Is this correct, or did I make a mistake as well?

The Mighty Men · Post by **The Mighty Men** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:26 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

1) if you don't like a certain thread, then don't read it. your posting in a thread you don't like can only mean one thing...you want some attention.

[/QB]How ironic is this?

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:29 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

okay,

1) i'm not the person who started the thread

2) people (UFS) want to bash BBDS, go for it, but i should be able to bash back without being thrown under the bus or be made to look like the bad guy or the guy who is draining all of greg's energy

3) the reasons i've heard against BBDS don't carry much weight with me. that's my opinion, and i believe it to be 'spot on'. i know greg and some others may feel differently, and that's fine. Sorry GG, pointing out a flaw is not bashing it.

BBDS is a solid idea in single leagues, not not the main event for the reasons Greg cited.

You choose to make this personal and it's not. That's a problem you need to deal with.

When someone disagrees with you, it's not an attack on you.

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:38 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by UFS:

I'll say it one last time and PLEASE comment on this only.

I'm not paying $1300 year after year to be pegged into slots 9-13 when I KNOW that FAAB is more valuable than the draft slots.

i'm not sure why you'd be lumped into slots 9-13 year after year. do you know something the rest of us don't? couldn't there be a consensus top 10 players or even top 13 players some years?

furthermore, what about the people who aren't going to pay $1,300 year after year to be pegged into your dreaded "slots 9-13" due to random/KDS? [/QUOTE]9 to 13?

Show me the $$ bid on all your BBDS leagues and tell me I'm far off. LOL.

Random/kds over 15 years will even out.

In KDS, about 75-80% of the owners get a pick in the top 50% of their choices. Happens just about every league.

Based on the above, there's only going to be 3-4 times every 15 years that I don't get one of my top 7 choices on average.

This is why KDS has been a big hit. NFBC is up what, 225 to 375 teams in two years?

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:40 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by headhunters:

young, gecko and usf should be in it- and greg could be grand marshall and sell tickets to view it. the serpentine auction league. listen, young and ufs couldn't even come close to beating me in baseball or football, even if they started with poodles in baseball or tomlinson in football [/QUOTE]ummmm... I beat you in the first ever BBDS FB league.

Might have been the only time I beat you in FB, but I BEAT YOU IN A BBDS LEAGUE

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:46 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by Quahogs:

GG - doesnt BBDS with FAAB $ create an unequal starting point for a contest (25 leagues competing with each other) such as this ? Right now at the start of the season every league has $15,000 available dollars for FA's. With FAAB BBDS some leagues may have drained $2500 from that pool leaving $12,500 available. Others maybe only $500 leaving $14,500. In your eyes do you think it's still a fair starting point where some with $1000 compete in a $12,500 pool while others compete in a $14,500 pool ?

Q Q - It's all relative, so it doesn't really matter does it? If everyone in League A starts with $1,000 and everyone in Lge B starts with $500, it wouldn't have any effect because players are bid against the league only, not against other leagues that may have more money. Am I missing something? [/QUOTE]KJ, why would everyone in league B start with $500? Your example is correct but what I'm saying is both Lg A and Lg B could have 5 teams with $1000 each to spend. Lg A had some crazy FAAB BBDS spenders which dropped the total FAAB amt to $12,500 while Lg B had more conservative bidders and only $500 was removed for a new total of $14,500. Owners in Lg A (with $1000 to spend) have more of an advantage than owners in Lg B. They're not starting off on equal footing.

Q

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:47 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Vander:

I just checked it and it is the way I thought it was. However, I'm the idiot. I was looking at it the wrong way. Therefore I entered my preferances wrong. I apologise to anybody I may have offended. I apparently can't read. Most of you probably already know I can't spell. I am to blame for the bad rankings. ditto for me to. i checked mine and i DID enter them wrong.

silly me thought under the heading of "Your Preference" to list the draft slots in order of how i preferred them. i wonder how many other people entered them incorrectly? for me, i think i still woulda got the same spot, but for Kevin to get spot 6, when it was his 13th preference seems odd. Kev - did you enter it wrong too? [/QUOTE]I just looked at my sat league for next Monday and I did the same thing also for all my leagues.

That is F'ed up the way they have it.

There should be just ONE COLUMN of pull down numbers with no reference to any other columns.