Twice-a-week moves?

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:46 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Koq - instead of providing your cheek comments, how about some with some substance, either good or bad. From the fluff you posted, I get the feeling you don't like it. Why? Is taking zeros what the NFBC is about? Call me "Old School" but I truly enjoy the weekly experience of fantasy/rotisserie baseball. I like having an entire week to digest my team's performance (or lack thereof), while at the same time making plans for the following week. If we were to have two transaction periods -- even just for hitters -- in the same week, there's less time for enjoyment and more work required. Nutty already brought up the example of weather and potential for rainouts -- this is an excellent example of some of the extra effort that would be involved with multiple transaction periods. Other examples are lefty/righty splits, historical averages, etc. These things will take on MUCH greater significance than the current rules allow. To repeat, in my opinion, more work = less enjoyment.

Yes, having two transaction periods would have benefitted the Soriano owners last week, and the Baldelli/Thome/Swisher owners this week. But like the current Friday-DL rule, there will be many ways to exploit the two-transaction-for-hitters rule. That makes this more about manipulating rules than evaluating player stats -- not excited about that at all.

I am also concerned that this is a step in the direction of having daily transactions. Think about it: the same arguments that have been made here for 2 periods can easily be made for daily transactions. If Baldelli gets hurt on Monday, why should you have to wait until Friday to put his replacement in there? I see the writing on the wall with this one, and I don't like the direction we'd be taking.

Hope this response was less cheeky.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:40 am

Good response glenn...although I don't really agree with it.

So looking at lefty/righty splits, weather, etc... once a week is doable, but twice is too much work?

Don't weigh in on daily moves. I am not pushing that and neither is anyone else. This is not the first step to that. Greg has already made it clear that daily moves is not in the nfbc"s future.

Glenn-would you like the nffc if owners had to set their lineups once before the first game of the week and couldn't change it

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:52 am

Branyan goes on the bereavment list an hour before Friday's games. Probably not a big loss, but another example on how twice-a-week moves could benefit a team.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:56 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

So looking at lefty/righty splits, weather, etc... once a week is doable, but twice is too much work?The importance is overemphasized, and if done properly, yes, it's too much work.

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Don't weigh in on daily moves. I am not pushing that and neither is anyone else. This is not the first step to that. Greg has already made it clear that daily moves is not in the nfbc"s future.Here's Greg's quote from April 18th on the "I like the Friday DL rule" thread:

"I can safely say that the majority of my customers don't want to make daily lineup changes or even twice weekly lineup changes."

Tell me, has something changed in the last 9 days?

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Glenn-would you like the nffc if owners had to set their lineups once before the first game of the week and couldn't change it Apples to oranges. You're comparing the events leading up to one game, versus the NFBC where multiple games are being played. Not the same thing at all.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:07 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Good response glenn...although I don't really agree with it.Please address this point specifically: has the Friday-DL rule produced unintended consequences (avoiding 2-start pitchers) beyond its original intention (allowing teams to replace players who get hurt THAT WEEK)? Would the two-transaction for hitters rule do the same thing?

poopy tooth · Post by **poopy tooth** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:03 pm

There is good/bad to both.

I have Conor Jackson, heard about his injury on Sunday, decided to bench him. I had to move a couple players (multi-position eligibility) and ended up with Randy Winn as DH, who would have been on bench...Winn is hitting .417 this week with 2 runs and 2 rbi...

I know I was able to plan ahead because I heard on Sunday.

Another example: I had Rodrigo Lopez...he pitched, went on DL, and I thought "great, hopefully, I have a starter with a start coming over the weekend." when i checked bench, RJ, Dotel and no other pitching options..not a Shields, Broxton, Capps, etc...nothing.

It comes down to roster management...no matter what rules, good owners will find a way to field best team possible...

I suffered through Ramon Hernandez this year in Ultamite...used a bench spot to start another C one week. Didn't want to miss out on a potential player that could help my struggling team, so I decided to pick up some other bench guys, drop 3rd catcher and accumulate Hernandez's "0's." My logic was...a back up cathcer won't help enough to justify the roster spot, when a good reserve, like a middle rp could be used instead.

With my indecision stated, I will say, I have no sympathy for owners who draft players like Thome, Sweeney, Prior, Wood, Garciaparra, etc. and then whine because they are injured. You have to put some consideration into who you draft and expect some downtime for these players. I know it doesn't make it right to replace a player like Tejada if he were to pull a hammy on a Thursday, but I really find it funny when owners put a list of their players on the DL up for everyone to read, like they are surprise..."Yeah, only two weeks into the season and I already have 5 players on the DL...my season is done..."

Mark Prior

Kerry Wood

Bartolo Colon

Nick Johnson

Mike Mussina

They list one legitimate injury...the rest were drafted.

I apologize for the mini-rant...

Anyway, I am 100% against daily transactions.

Whatever Greg decides, as long as we all have the same rules, it will be fair...maybe not our first choice, but fair

The one thing I would HATE is daily transactions, or anything that let owners rotate in pitchers each day. Just annoying IMO...

Interesting thread Gekko, nice topic...

To be honest, I was always interested in a draft a starting line up and then allow no changes, no bench, nothing, just draft and play...no effort...I'm sure lots of luck, always thought it would be interesting to watch...

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:13 pm

Originally posted by King of Queens:

Would the two-transaction for hitters rule do the same thing? you must be baiting me...

what are the unintended consequences of allowing any hitter to be switched out of your active lineup on friday morning and please explain how they are bad (if they even exist).

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:15 pm

Originally posted by poopy tooth:

I know I was able to plan ahead because I heard on Sunday.

the point is...what if you don't hear about the injury until monday (after the weekly lineup is submitted).

please don't mix in daily transaction as NO ONE is pushing that. you and koq must be drinking the same koolaid today

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:16 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:

Would the two-transaction for hitters rule do the same thing? you must be baiting me...

what are the unintended consequences of allowing any hitter to be switched out of your active lineup on friday morning and please explain how they are bad (if they even exist). [/QUOTE](1) Reserve hitters will become more important

(2) More teams will add hitters to their bench

(3) The marginal free agent hitting talent that exists now will shrivel to almost nothing

(4) Teams who are carrying injured players will be at a further disadvantage

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:20 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

please don't mix in daily transaction as NO ONE is pushing that.Maybe not now, but it's the next logical step. After all, why wait until Friday to replace Baldelli when you can replace him on Tuesday? Remeber that -- and here comes the baiting

-- taking zeroes is not what the NFBC is all about.

[ April 27, 2007, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: King of Queens ]

Red Sox Nation · Post by **Red Sox Nation** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:45 pm

Originally posted by King of Queens:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:

Would the two-transaction for hitters rule do the same thing? you must be baiting me...

what are the unintended consequences of allowing any hitter to be switched out of your active lineup on friday morning and please explain how they are bad (if they even exist). [/QUOTE](1) Reserve hitters will become more important

(2) More teams will add hitters to their bench

(3) The marginal free agent hitting talent that exists now will shrivel to almost nothing

(4) Teams who are carrying injured players will be at a further disadvantage [/QUOTE]KOQ I agree on your 4 points. I like the current rules as is.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:48 pm

Originally posted by King of Queens:

(1) Reserve hitters will become more important

(2) More teams will add hitters to their bench

(3) The marginal free agent hitting talent that exists now will shrivel to almost nothing

(4) Teams who are carrying injured players will be at a further disadvantage ---->

Answer to #3 ----> you mean to tell me that i won't be seeing Jack Wilson's name in the Free Agent pool every week? my oh my...that is disappointing!!

Answer to #1,2,4 ---->isn't it up to each individual owner to decide

a. how many hitters they want on their team

b. how many pitchers they want on their team

c. how long they want to keep an injured player on their team

i believe it is and it's called roster management. we are all big boys here, right?

so glenn, are you saying the current state of affairs in nfbc...weekly line-ups and the talent levels available via FAAB..are both at optimal levels? if so, how do you know.

btw, you never answered my nffc question. Yes or No. would you be happy if you had to submit your entire nffc lineup thursday night and had to roll with it for the weekend games?

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:55 pm

Originally posted by King of Queens:

Call me "Old School" now if you were really "old school", you'd never be playing fantasy baseball on a computer. you'd be doing it via snail mail or adding shitt up via newspaper boxscores.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:19 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

[QUOTE] btw, you never answered my nffc question. Yes or No. would you be happy if you had to submit your entire nffc lineup thursday night and had to roll with it for the weekend games? Yes, I would be unhappy to set my lineup on Thursday -- particularly if some of my key football players were not going to play until Monday night. The big reason: it's 72 hours before gametime, and a lot can happen between Thursday night and Monday night.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:20 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:

Call me "Old School" now if you were really "old school", you'd never be playing fantasy baseball on a computer. you'd be doing it via snail mail or adding shitt up via newspaper boxscores. [/QUOTE]Don't remind me of the painful memories!

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:25 pm

It's all a matter of personal preference for me. I dont want to have to construct 2 sets of strategies for one week. Thorman: M-Thus he plays against 3 RH's + a day off. F-Sun he's due to face Hill and Lilly. Kubel: 6 homes games against 5 RH, the LH pitches on wed. Easy call, go with Kubel, takes 1 minute to decide.

Free swaps on friday ? OY. SHould I now start Thorman and swap him out friday? Who do I swap him out with ? Is Thorman+J.Cruz or R.Sanders > J.Kubel ? Who does Cruz face fri-sun? Sanders faces 2 LH. Should I pick up C.Wilson for this week? Who do I drop to do this ? The Cub game is rained out Thursday. Rotation is pushed back, Lilly goes monday. Do I keep Thorman in now? What does the weather look like in CHI, SF, KC this weekend ? Talk about a summer of discontent

The way it is now? A 1 minute Kubel choice on sunday and a 1 minute roster DL check on friday.

I have Baldelli in the main and Swisher in 2 others. I lose out a bit but the trade off is less leg work.

In the future I'm striving to do less work(or work smarter) for more leagues, not more work for less leagues.

Q

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:36 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

so glenn, are you saying the current state of affairs in nfbc...weekly line-ups and the talent levels available via FAAB..are both at optimal levels? if so, how do you know.According to this year's edition of Baseball Forecaster, we should all strive for a 75% penetration rate of players. We're nowhere close to that in the NFBC, but a league with no trading (a good thing, mind you) needs to have decent free agent options to keep the interest level high throughout the season. I do know that roster management was VERY difficult in the first year of the NFBC with only 29 man rosters. When we expanded to 30, it was easier to wait out the injuries, but quality free agents (particularly hitters) are harder to acquire now than they were in 2004.

Is it the optimal balance of roster management and talent level? In my view, it comes pretty close.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:41 pm

Originally posted by Quahogs:

It's all a matter of personal preference for me. I dont want to have to construct 2 sets of strategies for one week.You must be really lazy!

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:45 pm

Originally posted by Quahogs:

I have Baldelli in the main and Swisher in 2 others. I lose out a bit but the trade off is less leg work.

In the future I'm striving to do less work(or work smarter) for more leagues, not more work for less leagues.

Q Owners not having time to be able to make lineup switches on fridays really baffles me.

Willing to throw in $1,250 for a team...check.

Willing to spend hundreds of hours doing preseason projections, rankings, mock drafts...check.

Willing to spend hours setting up weekly FAAB...check.

Willing to spend hours determining weekly lineups on monday...check.

But not willing to spend an hour to make hitter switches on friday. Duh!

Willing to take zeros from players not put on DL by thursday at midnight...check.

Baffled!

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:30 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

But not willing to spend an hour to make hitter switches on friday. Duh!What if you were in multiple leagues?

If you were running the NFBC, would you want to discourage participants from entering multiple leagues?

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:05 pm

Gotta admit...double G knows how to attack an argument when given time!

~Lance

poopy tooth · Post by **poopy tooth** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:23 am

If you were running the NFBC, would you want to discourage participants from entering multiple leagues? That's really the bottom line. Twice a week switches are easy enough for 4 or 5 leagues, but I'm in 12 leagues and wouldn't like the twice a week moves. I'd definitely cut back a few leagues next year.

The difference, not problem, with Friday switches is I'm sitting at work that day, which makes it harder to focus on match-ups, etc. Sure, I can make switches Thursday night, but when players are day to day, you want to give as much time as possible when deciding. It ca be the difference between Soriano or Sanders.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:59 am

Originally posted by poopy tooth:

That's really the bottom line. Twice a week switches are easy enough for 4 or 5 leagues, but I'm in 12 leagues and wouldn't like the twice a week moves. I'd definitely cut back a few leagues next year.

maybe if greg made starting lineups valid for a two week period (instead of one), then you and koq would feel better about your time committments and join even more leagues. That's really the bottom line.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:27 am

As Goldilocks would say, "Once a week is juuusssssst right."

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:49 am

With this change we would prepare our teams for each series, much like MLB Managers.

Lets face it, the "work" that is put in is mostly gone to waste due to rainouts and rotation changes during the week. A rainout in Boston on Tuesday and that planned matchup of your hitter going 25-50 with 7 home runs lifetime against Wakefield on Sunday turns into an 1-24 matchup vs. Schilling.

At least with this change all "work" would not go for naught.