You want a bad 3b? Take a look at Mark Reynolds and Ryan Braun. A-Ram shouldn't be anywhere a list of worst 3b's in the lge.
And btw, A-Rod is two years older than A-Ram, so that can't hardly be a solution for the Cubs at his senior age. Better move him to DH.
AROD team prediction???
AROD team prediction???
Originally posted by KJ Duke:
You want a bad 3b? Take a look at Mark Reynolds and Ryan Braun. A-Ram shouldn't be anywhere a list of worst 3b's in the lge.
And btw, A-Rod is two years older than A-Ram, so that can't hardly be a solution for the Cubs at his senior age. Better move him to DH. Braun is pretty awful. I don't know the first thing about Reynolds, but I do think when the Diamondbacks had Councell, Hudson, and Webb, they missed a brilliant opportunity to cost effectively build around infield defense and groundball pitching. They had the trade bait (like Reynolds and Drew) to pull it off. Then again they may end up the world series champs so who am I to argue?
I don't think A-Rod is getting any better with age either, but I do think he's a better 3B than Ramirez but he'd be worse at SS than Ramirez is at 3rd. You can't move the wrong way across the defensive spectrum and get better.
Yes, Ramirez is a good player overall and not as bad at defense as I originally hyperbollically suggested so it would be dumb to lose him and pay for a much more expensive A-Rod. Again, the problem would be pitting him with a horrible SS and 2B as was originally suggested. Defensive problems are compounded when bad players are next to each other and no one is covering extra ground.
[ October 11, 2007, 01:47 AM: Message edited by: bjoak ]
You want a bad 3b? Take a look at Mark Reynolds and Ryan Braun. A-Ram shouldn't be anywhere a list of worst 3b's in the lge.
And btw, A-Rod is two years older than A-Ram, so that can't hardly be a solution for the Cubs at his senior age. Better move him to DH. Braun is pretty awful. I don't know the first thing about Reynolds, but I do think when the Diamondbacks had Councell, Hudson, and Webb, they missed a brilliant opportunity to cost effectively build around infield defense and groundball pitching. They had the trade bait (like Reynolds and Drew) to pull it off. Then again they may end up the world series champs so who am I to argue?
I don't think A-Rod is getting any better with age either, but I do think he's a better 3B than Ramirez but he'd be worse at SS than Ramirez is at 3rd. You can't move the wrong way across the defensive spectrum and get better.
Yes, Ramirez is a good player overall and not as bad at defense as I originally hyperbollically suggested so it would be dumb to lose him and pay for a much more expensive A-Rod. Again, the problem would be pitting him with a horrible SS and 2B as was originally suggested. Defensive problems are compounded when bad players are next to each other and no one is covering extra ground.
[ October 11, 2007, 01:47 AM: Message edited by: bjoak ]
Chance favors the prepared mind.
AROD team prediction???
Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by bjoak:
My line is: No, never have, but I do make it a lot more fun to watch, you see.
You can't always see or feel defense as much as you'd like to think so and when you can it can be verified objectively. Players like Ellis, Hudson, and Cameron don't look the best in our eyes and in computer analyses for no reason. Other players might not be embarrassing themselves with errors but that doesn't mean they're doing their teams any favors. bjoak, I've worked extensively with stats in my job and other things, as well as baseball. And IMO, stats can uncover things that are less than obvious to the eye, but also miss other things that are in fact obvious to the eye. Balance, and a theoretical framework that employs both elements, in my experience tends to lead to the best analysis. [/QUOTE]I don't argue this. I would think John Dewan's measure is the exact kind of theoretical framework you are talking about. As I mentioned earlier, it is unfortunate that The Fielder's Bible is not updated each year.
quote:Originally posted by bjoak:
My line is: No, never have, but I do make it a lot more fun to watch, you see.
You can't always see or feel defense as much as you'd like to think so and when you can it can be verified objectively. Players like Ellis, Hudson, and Cameron don't look the best in our eyes and in computer analyses for no reason. Other players might not be embarrassing themselves with errors but that doesn't mean they're doing their teams any favors. bjoak, I've worked extensively with stats in my job and other things, as well as baseball. And IMO, stats can uncover things that are less than obvious to the eye, but also miss other things that are in fact obvious to the eye. Balance, and a theoretical framework that employs both elements, in my experience tends to lead to the best analysis. [/QUOTE]I don't argue this. I would think John Dewan's measure is the exact kind of theoretical framework you are talking about. As I mentioned earlier, it is unfortunate that The Fielder's Bible is not updated each year.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
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Edwards Kings
- Posts: 5910
- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 6:00 pm
- Location: Duluth, Georgia
AROD team prediction???
Originally posted by bjoak:
quote:Originally posted by Edwards Kings:
And move Soriano back to 2B and have an infield of D. Lee, A. Soriano, ARod and AmRam. Yup...that would be worth the price of admission.
Arod to Boston...bye-bye Lugo. While I am on a roll, I was assuming you guys were talking about trading Ramirez to get A-Rod or something which admittedly didn't make sense to me but whatever. I can't keep track of free agents either. I thought the Cubs might need a 3B.
But, yeah, let's put A-Rod back at short, which most experts agree A-Rod could not handle now that he's barely an adequate third baseman, along with Soriano, the worst second baseman since...ever, and Ramirez who fields like a humpback to create the worst infield defense of all time. This is why fantasy leaguers shouldn't run teams.
But, yes, I'd pay the price of admission to see the hilarity ensue as the defense goes after a ball like an old guy going after a skirt on the Benny Hill show, and then groundball pitcher Zambrano chasing his teammates around the field with that confused caveman look on his face. Ugah. [/QUOTE]But you see, I have the concession on iron gloves. I would make a mint!
I was just cutting the fool.
I actually think, with Bob Lemon and Billy Martin gone (I guess there is always Gene Michael), Big George stays with Torre, and ARod stays with the Yanks.
quote:Originally posted by Edwards Kings:
And move Soriano back to 2B and have an infield of D. Lee, A. Soriano, ARod and AmRam. Yup...that would be worth the price of admission.
Arod to Boston...bye-bye Lugo. While I am on a roll, I was assuming you guys were talking about trading Ramirez to get A-Rod or something which admittedly didn't make sense to me but whatever. I can't keep track of free agents either. I thought the Cubs might need a 3B.
But, yeah, let's put A-Rod back at short, which most experts agree A-Rod could not handle now that he's barely an adequate third baseman, along with Soriano, the worst second baseman since...ever, and Ramirez who fields like a humpback to create the worst infield defense of all time. This is why fantasy leaguers shouldn't run teams.
But, yes, I'd pay the price of admission to see the hilarity ensue as the defense goes after a ball like an old guy going after a skirt on the Benny Hill show, and then groundball pitcher Zambrano chasing his teammates around the field with that confused caveman look on his face. Ugah. [/QUOTE]But you see, I have the concession on iron gloves. I would make a mint!
I was just cutting the fool.
I actually think, with Bob Lemon and Billy Martin gone (I guess there is always Gene Michael), Big George stays with Torre, and ARod stays with the Yanks.
Baseball is a slow, boring, complex, cerebral game that doesn't lend itself to histrionics. You 'take in' a baseball game, something odd to say about a football or basketball game, with the clock running and the bodies flying.
Charles Krauthammer
Charles Krauthammer
AROD team prediction???
Glad you guys seem to have settled it. Seeing quite a few Cub games every year, I have to agree with Duke. Ramirez is much improved. I'm not saying gold glove. He is light year better than 3 or 4 years ago. D.Lee has contributed quite a bit. A-Ram feared throwing to 1b and made many errors because of it. You could see the hesitation before throwing and the attempt at aiming the throw. D.Lee a large target and gold glove caliber 1b helped fix the problem. You throw it. I'll catch it. Just fire. Soriano's not going back to 2b, so it doesn't matter. As a left fielder, he's not bad. Great arm. Quick release. Deadly accurate. Many recall Dawson as probably the best arm the Cubs have had in the OF. I say Soriano's better. Don't run on him. That's sacrilidge around here to say Soriano's better than Dawson arm wise, but that's how I see it. Dawson was of course a better fielder and took direct routes to the baseball which Soriano is not known for. I wouldn't mind seeing Arod in cubbie blue. Don't know about the chemistry. I thought Rodman would wreck the Bulls. It didn't work out that way. Course MJ curred a lot of things. I don't think we NEED arod. I wouldn't mind his help though. Cub fan since age 4. Got the cure in 1980 watching the most god awful team imaginable with no direction. Casually watch now. No longer a die hard. No crying or moaning when they lost.
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Joe Sambito
- Posts: 931
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:00 pm
AROD team prediction???
What about A-rod to the Phillies? From a pure baseball fit, I think that would be unbelievalbe.
Rollins, Utley, Arod, Howard, ... That infield, in that park. Talk about run support.
Rollins, Utley, Arod, Howard, ... That infield, in that park. Talk about run support.
"Everyone is born right-handed, only the greatest overcome it."
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Edwards Kings
- Posts: 5910
- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 6:00 pm
- Location: Duluth, Georgia
AROD team prediction???
Originally posted by Joe Sambito:
What about A-rod to the Phillies? From a pure baseball fit, I think that would be unbelievalbe.
Rollins, Utley, Arod, Howard, ... That infield, in that park. Talk about run support. But do you think ARod has the talent to beat out Helms, Dobbs, and A.O. Nunez in Charlie Manuel's mind?
What about A-rod to the Phillies? From a pure baseball fit, I think that would be unbelievalbe.
Rollins, Utley, Arod, Howard, ... That infield, in that park. Talk about run support. But do you think ARod has the talent to beat out Helms, Dobbs, and A.O. Nunez in Charlie Manuel's mind?
Baseball is a slow, boring, complex, cerebral game that doesn't lend itself to histrionics. You 'take in' a baseball game, something odd to say about a football or basketball game, with the clock running and the bodies flying.
Charles Krauthammer
Charles Krauthammer
AROD team prediction???
Originally posted by bjoak:
You can't always see or feel defense as much as you'd like to think so and when you can it can be verified objectively. Players like Ellis, Hudson, and Cameron don't look the best in our eyes and in computer analyses for no reason. Other players might not be embarrassing themselves with errors but that doesn't mean they're doing their teams any favors. Here are a few theories on errors that I don't think the stats catch. Let's take a guy who makes errors, like Braun, and look at the problems he causes.
#1 - He is a hitting weapon. But the coach has no confidence, so he pulls him out of every close game in the 7th-8th inning.
#2 - Pitchers, knowing they can't rely on a defender, will try harder not to let the batter make contact, especially in on-base or close game situations, which probably leads to higher pitch counts and more walks. In the case of Braun, they may try to work only the right side of the plate to avoid having balls pulled to Braun, which also reduces their pitch options and makes them more hittable.
#3 - Errors cause psychological problems, tend to be momentum shifters, get the crowd into it. Opponents start thinking luck or whatever is on their side, they relax and focus more at the same time, and play better. They also are psychological for the error team; players naturally start thinking about not making errors, which interrupts their natural play-making instinct. Errors disrupt pitchers. When a pitchers feels like they've gotten 3 outs, then have to get 4 outs, it is a psychological burden, some will breakdown and lose focus.
#4 - When a pitcher is doing well, a minimal number of balls will be hit hard, thus potentially making IF range less important than error-free defense - not making the exceptional play shouldn't hurt you; if x% of balls will be hit well, and x% of well-hit balls will result in contained run-scoring because they will occur infrequently, we can expect x% of runs scored. However, if x% of well-hit balls go for hits, plus x% of poorly hit balls which should be outs also go for hits, the run containment formula could blow up as hits will be bunched together leading to more runs scored. (This one isnt very well stated, but I think you can figure out what I mean).
Just a few theories for ya bjoak.
You can't always see or feel defense as much as you'd like to think so and when you can it can be verified objectively. Players like Ellis, Hudson, and Cameron don't look the best in our eyes and in computer analyses for no reason. Other players might not be embarrassing themselves with errors but that doesn't mean they're doing their teams any favors. Here are a few theories on errors that I don't think the stats catch. Let's take a guy who makes errors, like Braun, and look at the problems he causes.
#1 - He is a hitting weapon. But the coach has no confidence, so he pulls him out of every close game in the 7th-8th inning.
#2 - Pitchers, knowing they can't rely on a defender, will try harder not to let the batter make contact, especially in on-base or close game situations, which probably leads to higher pitch counts and more walks. In the case of Braun, they may try to work only the right side of the plate to avoid having balls pulled to Braun, which also reduces their pitch options and makes them more hittable.
#3 - Errors cause psychological problems, tend to be momentum shifters, get the crowd into it. Opponents start thinking luck or whatever is on their side, they relax and focus more at the same time, and play better. They also are psychological for the error team; players naturally start thinking about not making errors, which interrupts their natural play-making instinct. Errors disrupt pitchers. When a pitchers feels like they've gotten 3 outs, then have to get 4 outs, it is a psychological burden, some will breakdown and lose focus.
#4 - When a pitcher is doing well, a minimal number of balls will be hit hard, thus potentially making IF range less important than error-free defense - not making the exceptional play shouldn't hurt you; if x% of balls will be hit well, and x% of well-hit balls will result in contained run-scoring because they will occur infrequently, we can expect x% of runs scored. However, if x% of well-hit balls go for hits, plus x% of poorly hit balls which should be outs also go for hits, the run containment formula could blow up as hits will be bunched together leading to more runs scored. (This one isnt very well stated, but I think you can figure out what I mean).
Just a few theories for ya bjoak.