So who did get Jolbert Cabrera?

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:13 pm

Well In the Las Vegas Auction it was David Cushard aka Dyv. The night of the 1st free agent bids he complained hard and loud. Actually he was the only one on the message board that night complaining. There were many backers of him the next day though. That night Greg decided he had made a mistake and took Cabrera off my team and put him back into free agency. David got him this last weekend with the winning bid. But I'll always wonder was it because David is a part of the leaderboard sports group? Most of the supporting posts came from this group. And if this is the case where a group can actually change the course of events by yelling loud than where does that leave the rest of us? I know Greg did what he thought was best. But did the fact that Meatloaf a member of leaderboard sports and pointed out many times for promotion or the rest tilt the scale? I'll never know. but it is something to watch for the rest of the season.

Cellar Dwellers · Post by **Cellar Dwellers** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:27 pm

Walla Walla-I didn't get him back either in the NY auction league. I was outbid by Kings of Queens. He was the only other one on the message boards that first Sunday afternoon besides myself in the NY league wondering where the traded players were on the FA lists. At least I know he went to a team that wasn't asleep at the wheel on the day that we originally got Cabrera, though I imagine I outbid him that first week but he bid more than I was willing to go this week, I think he got him for $109. Let's root for him to continue to get no playing time.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:30 pm

That's quite a thought John and you are certainly free to your opinion, but it's not accurate. I chose to make this decision in order to set a precedent and not allow this to happen again. I've already admitted my error in extending the FAAB deadline and you've told me on the phone already that you disagreed with it. I understand. But no individual or group of individuals is getting any benefit of the doubt in any ruling I've made or will make in the future.

As for Cabrera in the Las Vegas league, I believe Dyv paid $31 for him, so knowing what you bid for him the previous week certainly didn't help him. He went for more in the New York AL Auction League than was previously bid for him, but his bid was less than 1/3 of your original bid. You still could have had him for a fraction of your original bid and been left without the 0-for-5 first week.

I appreciate the phone conversation we had last week and you were certainly cordial in your thoughts then. But saying Dyv or King of Queens (who got him in the NY league) got any favor from me just isn't accurate at all.

Cellar Dwellers · Post by **Cellar Dwellers** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:52 pm

Dave Hansen is starting at 3B tonight for the Mariners. So not only is Bloomquist getting starts over Cabrera, but Hansen is as well. We may be happy we didn't end up getting him.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:39 pm

Who was it that was backing me? If it was someone from my own group I don't know who they were? Maybe Ken Bayes (aka Leaderboard Sports) said something at one point, but I don't recall anyone at all voicing any support.

I stand by what I said, how I said it - and WHEN I said it. I thought the process was wrong. I said I thought it was wrong. I told anyone who asked WHY I thought it was wrong. I agreed the people who got Jolbert were getting shafted, too - no question, the whole thing came out bad. Do you really think if I have this control over Greg I would have posted a dozen times or whatever on the subject for everyone to see? Why wouldn't I have called Greg or emailed him and tried to coerce him privately and post NOTHING for public viewing? As a matter of fact, I believe 2 owners attempted to coerce Greg by threatening to pull their teams and demand a refund. You think I have some kind of power to tell Greg what to do? Bah - I'm a loud mouth and a jackass and I have an attitude and I'm full of sarcasm - but don't question my integrity.

The only favor I ever got from Greg that not many people got was a couple of free Corona's when I checked in on him at the FSTA mock draft Thursday night before our drafts. Then again, half a dozen NFBC attendees were there and got free drinks - other than that I'm in the same boat with the rest of us.

Leaderboard Sports has taken a position of support of Greg and the NFBC and NFFC as well as Lenny and Emil for the WCOFB and WCOFF because we think big money special fantasy games needs our support to make sure it gets off the ground and stays off the ground. We want the administrators to see it as a positive and that they should keep doing it and growing it because we want to play!

I sure hope Greg appreciates the fact we're avid gamers - but he owes me nothing and he knows it.

Let's keep the 'fantasy' part on the field and quit with the sour grapes. When it's all said and done, besides some confusion and frustration - the fair thing was done whether you admit it or not. To have players available and have some owners with effectively no chance at them was totally unfair. To take a player back and reverse out some transactions was a nuisance, but it was hardly unfair to put you back in the bidding pool with a full league competing for the player. The net effect so far? Some wasted time and words - a bit of frustration, a lot of work by Stats to roll back the transactions and YOU get to keep more of your FA budget.

Spend that money on the next Dontrelle Willis before I do

I'm sorry your bitter about this - but enough is enough. You've made out well in this transaction and to say otherwise at this point is crazy. Let's move on and compete hard. My AL auction team is in last place - good thing we've got a long season to go!

Play ball.

Dyv

Leaderboard Sports · Post by **Leaderboard Sports** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:33 pm

You need to go back and re-read the posts Wala. Two other Leaderboarders, myself and Bruce "BB", both of us in the NL league, protested the last minute changing of the rules "extension of the bid deadline" before Dyv even posted anything on the matter. Neither of us supported rebidding on the players involved. My only other post about the matter was to suggest Cabrerra be removed from the player pool and awarded to no one as the only fair solution to both sides.

I can't believe you posted this message on the board. Greg has been honest and straight forward with everyone from day one of this contest and for you to question his character on this board just won't fly at all. Any support you had with your situation from the people on this board likely just went out the window.

If you want to come on here and cry and whine that's fine, but try and back it up with some facts. Implying people are being dishonest or showing favoritism to someone is bush league.

[ April 15, 2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Leaderboard Sports ]

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:30 pm

First Greg, I stated I felt you tried to make the best choice. So I wasn't slamming you. I just brought up the point that when a group hits a messege board hard it can sway a decision. Were you swayed... I stated I didn't know. As far as David getting the player cheaper than what I bidded was not un-expected. I had already stated I wasn't going to bid for him. I did add him as a conditional bid but didn't expect it to come to that. It didn't. I do wonder though how many in the AL auction league actually complained.

David, My response to you is to say I'm sour grapes after your sour grapes is actually funny.

Leaderboard Sports, Its Mr Walla Walla to you. I stand by my remarks about David being the only one the 4th complaining. I may be wrong. Show me. Second I was not attacking Greg. I was putting Leaderboard sports under the spot light. Guess the light got a little too hot for you.

Leaderboard Sports · Post by **Leaderboard Sports** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:23 pm

Well Wah-Wah you are wrong. Here's the link to the thread if you can't figure out how to find it.

http://nfbcboards.stats.com/cgi-bin/ult ... 1;t=000201

BB posted first at 8:16pm complaining about the deadline being extended and again at 9:08 followed by me at 9:23 followed by Dyv at 11:42.

After Dave's first post there was exactly one post by another Leaderboard member in regards to this matter and it in no way supported Dave. Here it is word for word.

"Leaderboard Sports

Member

Member # 8

Member Rated:

posted April 05, 2004 04:14 AM

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There is no solution now that will be fair to everyone and make everyone happy regarding this first weeks free agent bidding, but I think we need to have a ruling in place for future situations such as this.

If a player cannot be put into the free agent pool due to late trade or technical problems before 6pm on Sunday night I feel he should be left out of the free agent pool for that week and placed in the pool after the 7pm deadline so that he can be bid upon during the next weeks bids. You should have at least one hour to bid on a player and the 7pm deadline should stay firm. "

And in all other threads regarding this matter there were two posts total by Leaderboard members other than Dyv. And here they are for your viewing pleasure, first by BB of the Leaderboard

"BB of the Leaderboard

Member

Member # 68

posted April 05, 2004 09:00 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

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Originally posted by Jackstraw:

I don't think you should go back on your decision, Greg. I don't think it was the best decision you could have made, but it was your decision. If you go back on it, it sets a bad example and people will try to exploit wishy-washiness in the future whenever something doesn't go their way.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greg,

In spite of my criticism on this topic I agree with the above. Announce a clear-cut, within the rules way of handling such matters going forward and let's move on.

BB "

And by me:

Leaderboard Sports

Member

Member # 8

Member Rated:

posted April 05, 2004 03:58 PM

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I understand your trying to make things right regarding Cabrerra for both those who bid on him and those who didn't get to bid. I am an NL owner so I am looking at this from the outside and can see no fair way to resolve this for all parties concerned. Exposing the bid amounts by those who won Cabrerra forces them to way over spend now to get him and leaving him on the rosters allows a decent player to be added to someones team without every team having an opportunity to bid on him. Perhaps the fairest thing to do would be to pull Cabrerra off the AL player pool and allow no one to own him. You're not going to be able to make everyone happy regarding Cabrerra so maybe you should just pull him and make no one happy regarding Cabrerra.

So your statement about the Leaderboard members flooding the boards to influence the decision in Dave's favor is basically a lie. If anything I disagreed with Dave on this matter as did Bruce. I didn't think it was right to extend the deadline but I didn't think it was right to rebid either. So I guess you can keep making $hit up and whine and cry about it or you can sack up and move on. Either way it doesn't matter to me as I've wasted enough time on the matter.

Oh yea, I only call people I respect Mr. and you aren't anywhere to be found on my list. Sorry

[ April 15, 2004, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Leaderboard Sports ]

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:43 pm

Originally posted by Walla Walla:

First Greg, I stated I felt you tried to make the best choice. So I wasn't slamming you. I just brought up the point that when a group hits a messege board hard it can sway a decision. Were you swayed... I stated I didn't know. As far as David getting the player cheaper than what I bidded was not un-expected. I had already stated I wasn't going to bid for him. I did add him as a conditional bid but didn't expect it to come to that. It didn't. I do wonder though how many in the AL auction league actually complained.

David, My response to you is to say I'm sour grapes after your sour grapes is actually funny.

Leaderboard Sports, Its Mr Walla Walla to you. I stand by my remarks about David being the only one the 4th complaining. I may be wrong. Show me. Second I was not attacking Greg. I was putting Leaderboard sports under the spot light. Guess the light got a little too hot for you. You can put a light on us any time ya like - just keep it out of my eyes, please?

D

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:20 pm

I feel like I just relived a bad week of my life. Thanks guys.

Actually, I did buy Dyv some Corona's on Thursday night, but then I think I also bought a lot of beers for non-Leaderboard Sports guys on Friday and then again on Saturday. I'm not quite sure why KP still hasn't approved my expense report from that show one month after its completion. Oh well.

Seriously, I think Walla Walla has the right to shine the light on me when it comes to this ruling or any other ruling I make. I just think if you knew me better you wouldn't accuse me of being swayed by public opinion. I'm a Taurus the bull and I'm so stubborn it's hard to move me on any opinion. But I really felt I moved outside the rules on this one and didn't allow a fair bidding for all given the circumstances of Cabrera being added to the free agent pool so late. And so I made a tough call and now I'm trying my best to update every inch of the rules to make sure this league is air-tight going forward. It won't be, but since I'm under the microscope I have to take the criticism with the compliments and be a big boy about it. I promise to make it up to everyone next year at the draft with more beer purchases. Hopefully we'll have 300+ teams next year, which will make my expense report even more interesting in 2005.

But Leaderboard Sports doesn't deserve any blame in this matter. They were just part of the decision I made after I evaluated my decision, just like Walla Walla was (say that three times).

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:30 pm

bawlla bawlla sniffle sniffle

mystydog · Post by **mystydog** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:53 pm

I assume since Jolbert has not even sniffed a start now that he is in Seattle that this is a philosophical discussion....

If I was going to comment about anybody getting Jolbert it would be to announce how sorry I felt that they had wasted free agent dollars.....

but, hey what do I know....I am just a Hairy Muppet Dog........

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:27 am

Nice thing about these messege boards. You push somebody's buttons and watch the messeges fly.

The group from leaderboard sports is OK. So is Greg. It doesn't hurt to probe though. As far as Meatloaf being a Leadersports guy I have only one complaint. Couldn't you guys get Britney Spears?

mystydog · Post by **mystydog** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:13 am

Actually like everybody else we have been pursing Anna Kournikova for years....

We offered to have her model our sports wear line .....that didnt work.....

We even tried to introduce her to some hockey players in our group and that didnt even do the trick....

For some reason she does not want to take us seriously....

But we will keep trying.....

Leaderboard Sports · Post by **Leaderboard Sports** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:15 am

I understand why you are upset about the matter, you got screwed, (well maybe not as it turns out). What I objected to was your suggesting that our group influenced Greg and that Greg could be influenced. If you had a chance to meet Greg in Vegas you know he's a stand up guy and would never try to cheat anyone.

Sorry about coming down so hard, it's difficult to tell on a message board exactly where someone is coming from.