HOF Ballot

[Sheep]

OK, Boys & Girls, time for the annual Hall of fame rant! As the BBWA has announced the 2008 ballot (and why do those dinosaurs still get to select HOF'ers? What, we fantasy geeks don't watch more baseball games then they do now?) and here are the nominees with comments...



Brady Anderson- Hey, if you're gonna do steroids, at least do them every year so you can build HOF numbers. That one juice-induced 50 HR year just doesn't cut it. Vote- No!



Harold Baines- Good, but not great player. Falls under the Vada Pinson Rule- not quite good enough to go to the Hall, but you can't be worse than Harold Baines and get in. Plus a lot of his numbers came as a DH, and no DH gets in til Edgar Martinez does...Vote- No!



Rod Beck- Shooter! The Todd Jones of his era. Sorry he died too young, but still have to Vote- No!



Bert Blyleven- OK, once and for all, put this guy in, dammit! Yes, his won-loss percentage isn't great, but if only one stat should keep you out, what the hell are guys like Eddie Matthews (low BA), Pee Wee Reese (no HR's), and Juan Marachal (not 300 wins) doing in? They are in because they deserve to be, and so does Blyleven. So he's no Lefty Grove or Sandy Koufax- neither are most of the pitchers in the Hall. If you want to keep Blyleven out, then kick out everyone who is already in who wasn't as good. Vote- In!



Dave Concepcion- Very good player, but he shouldn't even be considered until Alan Trammell gets in- Vote- No!



Andre Dawson- Forget the Cub years- his candidacy hangs on his Expo career. And it was a great one! Hawk's career is what Tony Oliva's might have been had he been able to suffer with his knees a bit longer, and Dawson has the excuse that he didn't wreck his knees on his own- thank you, artificial turf. People want Jim Rice in, and I wouldn't have a problem with that. But he wasn't a third the player Dawson was. Vote- In!



Shawon Dunston- Loved watching him load up that cannon of his and throw balls 20 rows up into the Wrigley stands on WGN. Vote- No!



Chuck Finley- Reason to be in- he was bagging Tawny Kitaen for a long time. Reason not to get in- She kicked his ass in a fight. Vote- No!



Travis Fryman- For the Hall? B'wah!...Vote- No!



Goose Gossage- If he doesn't make it this year, he won't until he hits the Veteran Committe, who will elect him in a blink. Should have been in before Sutter, who deserved his election, and Fingers, who did not. Vote- In!



Tommy John- Borderline, but not until Blylevin and Morris make it...Vote- No!



David Justice- How do you screw up a marraige to Halle Barry? Maybe he and Chuck Finley should room together. As a player, his dinky little Fred Lynn career means nothing. Vote- No!



Chuck Knoblach- 90's version of Steve Sax, and Sax ain't getting in either...Vote-No!



Don Mattingly- Great for a short time, but it was too short...Sort of like Dale Murphy, but probably less deserving. As much as I am a fan of Donnie Baseball, I have to Vote- No!



Mark McGwire- Here's the difference between Bonds and McGwire. Bonds did steroids even though he didn't need to worry about keeping his job- he just wanted to pump his ego as well as his body. McGwire's body was breaking down, and he was in danger of losing his career. Under those circumstances, I would have considered juicing, too. I don't believe either should be in the Hall, but at least I can see McGwire's rationale for using. As for Bonds, screw him. i don't care if he DID have a HOF career before hitting the steroids. Pete Rose had a HOF career before he started gambling, and he's not getting in, either. At least his hits were all legit. As for my Vote- No!



Jack Morris- High era, Blah blah blah...lost too many, blah blah blah. Has good enough career numbers, proven post-season ability, and, if you had to play one game for the safety of the universe between the prime years of Tom Seaver and Randy Johnson, who would you choose to be your starting pitcher? This guy, that's who! For that reason, I Vote- In!



Dale Murphy- See Don Mattingly. Vote- No!



Robb Nen- Am I the only one who thinks it is a disgrace that you can vote for Robb Nen but not for Goose Gossage on the same ballot? Vote- No!



Dave Parker- Another of those Dale Murphy/Don Mattingly cases. For a few years Parker was REALLY great. But it was only for a few, and unlike Mattingly, Parker's decline wasn't due to chronic injury (unless you consider getting fat and stoned on coke chronic injuries). His post-Pittsburgh days were nothing special. Vote- No!



Tim Raines- Being the second best leadoff hitter ever behind Rickey Henderson is good enough for me- Vote- In!



Jim Rice- Always the toughest call for me. Usually depends on if there are 10 guys I think more deserving. In this case there isn't, and I do think Jim Rice is above the Vada Pinson/Harold Baines line, so I Vote- In!



Jose Rijo- Always liked him, but easy to Vote- No!



Lee Smith- Hmm, now that Hoffman has the saves record, funny how no one is talking about Lee Smith belonging in the HOF anymore...Vote- No!



Todd Stottlemyre- Not even the best Stottlemyer (his dad was much better), and Pops isn't in. Vote- No!



Alam Trammell- I've said it before, and I'll say it again- Alan Trammell was a pulled hammy away from being considered a much better player than Cal Ripkin. Everyone loves The Streak, but Trammell was simply a better player than Ripkin. And Ripkin, I reluctantly admit, deserves to be in the Hall- and so does Tram. Put him in and let him take Ryan Sandberg's place, who was simply a Wrigley-created fraud. For Trammell, Vote- In!



So there you have it- 7 deserving HOFer's on the ballot in 2008- Raines, Dawson, Blylevin, Morris, Trammell, Rice, and Gossage. If you want to take the vote to 10, throw in Tommy John, Dale Murphy, and Don Mattingly.



Thoughts?



[ December 03, 2007, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Sheep ]

[headhunters]

totally agree.

[Sheep]

Originally posted by headhunters:

totally agree. Headhunters: Someone stole your screen name.

[751542]

great writeup and thanks, very insightful and agree for the most part but i see 1 glaring mistake from a person who attended 2131 and 2132, its cal RIPKEN!!! RT

[CC's Desperados]

I think Jim Rice should be in.

[stargells star]

I always tell those who will listen that Blylevin should be in, without any doubt!!! Good arguments for the other guys as well, but Blylevin for sure!!

[CC's Desperados]

Originally posted by stargells star:

I always tell those who will listen that Blylevin should be in, without any doubt!!! Good arguments for the other guys as well, but Blylevin for sure!! All I can remember is those 50 homeruns he allowed in 86. He did give up 46 the next year. I guess he hung a few breaking pitches late in his career.

[Plymouth]

Nice writeup Sheep, I grew up watching Blyleven and could not agree more. He pitched for some pretty bad Twins teams back when he started. Having said that, home runs is obviously not a HOF qualifier for pitchers as the numbers below will show. Let's look at the following 12 pitchers, 9 of whom are in the HOF, the two still pitching will be as soon as they retire and put in their 5 years, and then you have Blyleven. There is no excuse in this world for him not being in the HOF. I am looking at innings pitched, home runs allowed and how often a home run was given up on a per inning basis.



Ryan-----5,386------321--------16.78 (one HR per)

Ford-----3,170------228--------13.90

Seaver---4,782------380--------12.58

Smoltz---3,367------275--------12.24

Spahn----5,243------434--------12.08

Blyleven-4,970------430--------11.56

Koufax---2,324------204--------11.39

Sutton---5,282------472--------11.19

R.Johnson-3,855-----368--------10.48

Jenkins--4,500------484---------9.30

Roberts--4,688------505---------9.28

Hunter---3,449------374---------9.22



There are some pretty good pitchers on this list that gave up more home runs per inning pitched then Bert did.

[bluenose]

Blyleven really is the one that separates the Sabrmetricians from the majority of the rest of the fans. Sabr guys have a huge man-crush on Blyleven and everybody else kind of goes "WTF?". The Bill James crowd point not only to peripheral numbers but to the teams he pitched for, the home parks he pitched in, etc. etc.



I'm of two minds on the Blyleven file, just like I'm on two minds on the Ripken file. Part of me thinks Ripken was a selfish chump because toward the end of his streak he had plenty long .210 slumps nd he wasn't a defensive wizard and etc. etc. but The Streak had to be preserved even though any other manager would have benched him or any other player would take his own day off -- but this stupid Streak had to be kept alive. On the other hand, it is the Hall of Fame, and Ripken is certainly one of the most Famous ballplayers of our lifetime. I think his streak is complete BS, and I think it was classless to pass Gehrig (and I hate the Yankees) but I can see why he's in the HoF. Ripken is an icon.



So Blyleven's peripherals are awesome, he's not far shy of 300 wins, and he pitched for some middling teams who played in bandboxes. I'm wiling to let the stats guys convince me that his numbers are better than many pitchers already in the Hall. But, yeah, it's the Hall of Fame... not the Hall of Stats. Is Blyleven capital-F Famous? I'm not sure.

[CC's Desperados]

Originally posted by Plymouth:

Nice writeup Sheep, I grew up watching Blyleven and could not agree more. He pitched for some pretty bad Twins teams back when he started. Having said that, home runs is obviously not a HOF qualifier for pitchers as the numbers below will show. Let's look at the following 12 pitchers, 9 of whom are in the HOF, the two still pitching will be as soon as they retire and put in their 5 years, and then you have Blyleven. There is no excuse in this world for him not being in the HOF. I am looking at innings pitched, home runs allowed and how often a home run was given up on a per inning basis.



Ryan-----5,386------321--------16.78 (one HR per)

Ford-----3,170------228--------13.90

Seaver---4,782------380--------12.58

Smoltz---3,367------275--------12.24

Spahn----5,243------434--------12.08

Blyleven-4,970------430--------11.56

Koufax---2,324------204--------11.39

Sutton---5,282------472--------11.19

R.Johnson-3,855-----368--------10.48

Jenkins--4,500------484---------9.30

Roberts--4,688------505---------9.28

Hunter---3,449------374---------9.22



There are some pretty good pitchers on this list that gave up more home runs per inning pitched then Bert did. He really only had two bad homer years. I think the 50 number just stuck in my because it was so high.



I have no problem with him going in.

[Vander]

Shawn your a popular guy. Your mailbox is full.

[CC's Desperados]

Originally posted by Vander:

Shawn your a popular guy. Your mailbox is full. All clear!!