Diamondbacks Moves!!!

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:20 am

PHOENIX -- The D-backs are close to completing a deal to acquire right-hander Dan Haren and another player from the A's in exchange for six prospects, MLB.com has learned.

In addition, the D-backs will send closer Jose Valverde to the Astros in exchange for infielder Chris Burke and reliever Chad Qualls.

Both deals are set to be announced later this afternoon.

Included in the trade to Oakland are pitchers Brett Anderson, Greg Smith and Dana Eveland along with outfielders Carlos Gonzalez and Aaron Cunningham and first baseman Chris Carter.

[ December 14, 2007, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:52 am

Nice for Arizona to be able to send out Webb and Haren as their 1-2 punch

Here is the rest of the info from the Diamondbacks website:

PHOENIX -- The D-backs completed a deal to acquire right-handers Dan Haren and Connor Robertson from the A's in exchange for six prospects, it was announced Friday afternoon.

In addition, the D-backs sent closer Jose Valverde to the Astros in exchange for infielder Chris Burke and right-handers Chad Qualls and Juan Gutierrez.

Included in the trade to Oakland are pitchers Brett Anderson, Greg Smith and Dana Eveland along with outfielders Carlos Gonzalez and Aaron Cunningham and first baseman Chris Carter.

[ December 14, 2007, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: Captain Hook ]

Red Sox Nation · Post by **Red Sox Nation** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:14 pm

I know we've been hearing the Haren rumors but I was really surprised he got dealt. He's a bargain for 3 more years under his current deal.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:23 am

Originally posted by Red Sox Nation:

I know we've been hearing the Haren rumors but I was really surprised he got dealt. He's a bargain for 3 more years under his current deal. Very true, but you have to like the collection of prospects they got here -- in particular Carlos Gonzalez who IMO is going to be an absolute monster.

I'm sure Beane is hoping this deal turns out more like the Mulder deal (Dan Haren, Kiko Calero, Daric Barton) than the Hudson one (Dan Meyer, Juan Cruz, Charles Thomas).

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:05 am

Beane certainly has that reputation. But it makes me think there is something "wrong" with Haren. When Beane traded Mulder, he had been adequate as far as K's go (last year in Oakland 140 k in 225 IP). His first year in StL (2005), only 111 K in 205 IP. Officially hurt in both 2006 and 2007.

On Hudson, in 2003 he had 162 K in 240 IP. In 2004, only 103K in 183 IP. In 2005, he traded him to Atlanta. In 2007, he creapt back up to mediocre as far as that goes, but still Beane seems to trade his stud pitchers when they have good market but declining power skills. Smart guy.

Haren appears to be at the top of his game (192 K in 222 IP in 2007), but I wonder what the true story is?

[ December 15, 2007, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: Edwards Kings ]

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:07 am

And so who closes for Arizona...Lyon, Pena, Qualls?

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:46 am

Supposedly Pena. We'll have to see for sure.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:59 am

Originally posted by Edwards Kings:

And so who closes for Arizona...Lyon, Pena, Qualls? Yes

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:38 am

Originally posted by Edwards Kings:

Beane certainly has that reputation. But it makes me think there is something "wrong" with Haren. When Beane traded Mulder, he had been adequate as far as K's go (last year in Oakland 140 k in 225 IP). His first year in StL (2005), only 111 K in 205 IP. Officially hurt in both 2006 and 2007.Mulder was dominant through early August 2004 and then hit the wall. In retrospect, something was definitely not right with him.

I don't see any obvious signs like that with Haren, but with Beane's track record, buyer beware in 2008.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:57 am

I think it is more a matter of the Huge amount of talent he was able to get from Arizona for Haren. I don't see anything in Haren's skills/performance to suggest that he isn't a prime SP for several years, BUT look at what Beane was able to get for a team needy for solid hitting prospects:

Carlos Gonzalez - stud OF in the making

Aaron Cunningham - another Very good young OF

Chris Carter - good HR producing 1B

and three good pitching prospects

ALL are players that would not make the Diamondbacks starting lineup for the next couple of years allowing them to pair Haren with Webb as one of the best 1-2 SP tandems in baseball.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:47 am

Beane's next move should be trading Rich Harden straight up for Ben Sheets. The deal would be forever known as The Bjoak Special.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:13 am

I guess I'll go it alone on seeing the signs. I had Haren last year and thought he was great... at first. I watched almost all of his starts and as the season progressed he became more and more hittable. The stat that backs this up most, and I've never seen this stat with any good picher, is that from his second start in June till his last start of the season his ERA NEVER went down after a start. Granted his ERA in April and May was off the charts, but this is a good sign that Oakland may have seen the best of Haren. If I'm Billy Beane I pull the trigger on that deal in a heartbeat.

With all that said, this could be great for Haren as well. The National League should be just what the doctor ordered for him and he may get close to or even exceed last years numbers. For the near future a good deal for both teams, after next year I like Oakland's side of the deal a lot more.

[ December 15, 2007, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:31 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

I guess I'll go it alone on seeing the signs. I had Haren last year and thought he was great... at first. I watched almost all of his starts and as the season progressed he became more and more hittable. The stat that backs this up most, and I've never seen this stat with any good picher, is that from his second start in June till his last start of the season his ERA NEVER went down after a start. Granted his ERA in April and May was off the charts, but this is a good sign that Oakland may have seen the best of Haren. If I'm Billy Beane I pull the trigger on that deal in a heartbeat.

With all that said, this could be great for Haren as well. The National League should be just what the doctor ordered for him and he may get close to or even exceed last years numbers. For the near future a good deal for both teams, after next year I like Oakland's side of the deal a lot more. Depends on what you look at I suppose:

- clearly his 1st Half splits were unreal - on the good side

- his 2nd half splits for ERA and WHIP were just as bad

BUT look at the other factors and you have to see that he pitched in front of a bad team and bad bullpen and was pretty unlucky. 38% hit rate?

I do agree that it is a good trade for both teams - and just at different points. Haren for now is BIG plus for the Diamondbacks while Beane loads up the cupboard for Oakland.

[ December 15, 2007, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Captain Hook ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:39 am

Oh danny boy...I was going to like waching people select haren in the 5th round, now u are correctly going to cause some hesitation...likely lowering his adp to 7th or 8th round. Rats!!!

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:37 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Oh danny boy...I was going to like waching people select haren in the 5th round, now u are correctly going to cause some hesitation...likely lowering his adp to 7th or 8th round. Rats!!! I know there is not a snowball's chance in Hades, but I would really like to know which side of the BS meter you are on with this GG

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:40 am

Hook: there is another pitcher that begins his last name with 'har' that had more wins, k's and a better whip than haren in 2007, yet haren will be drafted before him in 2008.

Haren had a horrible 2nd half (over 1.50 whip!!!!) And he is now movong from a pitchers park to a hitters park. Will we find out in 2008 that haren is actually hurt?

The stats and the safe money is on the other 'har'.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:47 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Hook: there is another pitcher that begins his last name with 'har' that had more wins, k's and a better whip than haren in 2007, yet haren will be drafted before him in 2008.

Haren had a horrible 2nd half (over 1.50 whip!!!!) And he is now movong from a pitchers park to a hitters park. Will we find out in 2008 that haren is actually hurt?

The stats and the safe money is on the other 'har'. Well hardy har har!

Andy Tu La Daddy · Post by **Andy Tu La Daddy** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:03 am

What makes little sense to me, at least as far as next year goes, why trade away Valverde when playing for now?

Qualls is good but not as good as Valverde and Burke has nowhere to play.

If you have great starting pitching, you shouldn't mess with a successful bullpen.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:04 am

Originally posted by Andy Tu La Daddy:

What makes little sense to me, at least as far as next year goes, why trade away Valverde when playing for now?

Qualls is good but not as good as Valverde and Burke has nowhere to play.

If you have great starting pitching, you shouldn't mess with a successful bullpen. Simple answer: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:05 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Hook: there is another pitcher that begins his last name with 'har' that had more wins, k's and a better whip than haren in 2007, yet haren will be drafted before him in 2008.

Haren had a horrible 2nd half (over 1.50 whip!!!!) And he is now movong from a pitchers park to a hitters park. Will we find out in 2008 that haren is actually hurt?

The stats and the safe money is on the other 'har'. You can have Harden GG ROFL

We can certainly arrange a bet for you and the other "Har..." vs my Haren if you want.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:06 am

Originally posted by Andy Tu La Daddy:

What makes little sense to me, at least as far as next year goes, why trade away Valverde when playing for now?

Qualls is good but not as good as Valverde and Burke has nowhere to play.

If you have great starting pitching, you shouldn't mess with a successful bullpen. There are a few other...shall we say "attitude related issues" that may have influenced his trade as well as the $$$

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:12 am

Hook: my bet is my 1300 entry fee fee fee

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:23 am

Not sure what happened to the rest of my post? Must be a blackberry moment!

Anyways, I don't make side bets. I pay 1300 to enter the nfbc. That's enough capital at risk

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:40 am

Good enough Mark - see you at the draft table

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:46 pm

BTWFWIW - in the three mock drafts done here so far: Haren drafted at

5-3

4-14

5-4