Mock Draft Feedback

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:05 am

Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

It's funny, I see Johan and Peavy giving top 7 value this year. Pitching is so underrated in fantasy baseball. I know it's less predictable, but there are exceptions. I hear what you are saying about pitching, but I am not sure it is underrated. Based on my personal opinion, pitching isn't being overlooked as much as there is recognition that there is more depth in pitching. You can still establish a fine staff that will/can take 80% of available pitching points by not committing too much (i.e. early draft picks) too early. I think the concept of opportunity cost is what keeps so may drafters from committing their first or second rounds to pitchers or too many of their top 10 picks to pitching.

Less than Dave · Post by **Less than Dave** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:06 am

well, you're going to have a high team batting average.. but you will be lacking severely in power and speed.. I love the 4-5-6 round pitchers you took, but honestly not much else.. I don't even like Pujols at #6 with who else was probably still available and I hate Magglio in the 2nd round

But like these guys have been saying, it's good that you are trying to learn.. only a mock draft

Less than Dave · Post by **Less than Dave** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:12 am

Crazy: I guarantee you I would not regret not taking Pujols at 6 come the end of the season... I cannot see him being more valuable than AROD, Wright, Hanley, Reyes, Rollins and a couple others who I will keep secret for now

.. all of this contingent upon none of these guys suffering injuries. Don't get me wrong, Pujols will be a great fantasy player.. but the difference is that he cannot contribute in 5 categories like these other guys can... those SS can all get 80 RBI or so.. and Pujols will not contribute as much in R and RBI as you would like with his lineup... there's just not going to be as many opportunities. Stolen bases are too valuable to take Pujols there.

Less than Dave · Post by **Less than Dave** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:19 am

Gekko: why is the 5th round too early for Smoltz? It's ahead of his ADP on MDC, but he is a very solid pitcher with no weaknesses other than age maybe.. I guess it depends who might have still been on the board though... I'd take Oswalt or Lackey over him, but not Verlander, Kazmir, Hamels, or Zambrano. Don't know about Haren...

Pollcat: No, you should not have taken Bedard before CC... I'd bet big that CC has a better year.. especially since he is on a better team (more wins).. but he is also a safer pick and only getting better every year.

P.S. It's a contract year for CC.. believe that he will be motivated.

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:11 am

dave-bedard might be on a better team than he is in about 4 weeks. i heard cc weighs 350 lbs now. cleveland- big fall this year. see ya in chicago

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:17 am

Originally posted by headhunters:

dave-bedard might be on a better team than he is in about 4 weeks. i heard cc weighs 350 lbs now. cleveland- big fall this year. see ya in chicago He must have lost weight then.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:30 am

Originally posted by Edwards Kings:

quote:Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

It's funny, I see Johan and Peavy giving top 7 value this year. Pitching is so underrated in fantasy baseball. I know it's less predictable, but there are exceptions. I hear what you are saying about pitching, but I am not sure it is underrated. Based on my personal opinion, pitching isn't being overlooked as much as there is recognition that there is more depth in pitching. You can still establish a fine staff that will/can take 80% of available pitching points by not committing too much (i.e. early draft picks) too early. I think the concept of opportunity cost is what keeps so may drafters from committing their first or second rounds to pitchers or too many of their top 10 picks to pitching. [/QUOTE]Excellent, excellent point. Makes a lot of sense but I still think it's pitching is underrated as a whole. But you are right on as far "opportunity cost". Great term by the way. There are so many more pitching opportunities late than offense.

I still see Johan as the biggest bargain in the draft and I have no doubts whatsoever that's he'll be a top 8 pick next year. I'm not sure why last year's stats would discount him so much. He's arguably the most valuable fantasy player year in and year out.

I guess this part of the draft I need work on. The balance of pitching vs. offense. I sure do like Kimo's draft though. Looks like a winner so far without seeing other picks.

Less than Dave · Post by **Less than Dave** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:30 am

1. Bedard might be going to Seattle.. not a good team.

2. CC's weight has never been an issue with his pitching.. I am predicting another CY Young.

3. Cleveland big fall?? Why?? Hafner will be back at full strength mashing the ball, Garko will have a big year, Grady will have a better year, and our young guys will all continue to develop.. the only thing this team really lacks is veteran leadership for the playoffs... the core of players is awesome tho.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:40 am

Originally posted by Less than Dave:

1. Bedard might be going to Seattle.. not a good team.

2. CC's weight has never been an issue with his pitching.. I am predicting another CY Young.

3. Cleveland big fall?? Why?? Hafner will be back at full strength mashing the ball, Garko will have a big year, Grady will have a better year, and our young guys will all continue to develop.. the only thing this team really lacks is veteran leadership for the playoffs... the core of players is awesome tho. Mental note less than Dave nice guy, mental note less than Dave and I do not agree on much when it comes to fantasy baseball including any of those 3 statements.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:57 am

Originally posted by Less than Dave:

1. Bedard might be going to Seattle.. not a good team.

2. CC's weight has never been an issue with his pitching.. I am predicting another CY Young.

3. Cleveland big fall?? Why?? Hafner will be back at full strength mashing the ball, Garko will have a big year, Grady will have a better year, and our young guys will all continue to develop.. the only thing this team really lacks is veteran leadership for the playoffs... the core of players is awesome tho. No offense Less than Dave, you speak like a fan of the Indians, instead of a fan of baseball as a whole. It's hard to appreciate what you say when it's obviously fan bias. Just a word of advice. You sound like you're a dedicated fan of the Indians and there's nothing wrong with that, but if you think everything is gravy in Cleveland you're wrong.

Some of their decision perplex me. Why in the hell do they have Borowski closing?? I think it could be the first time in the history of baseball that a closer with a 5 e.r.a. with 1.40+ whip can retain a job for a full season. And he keeps his job for another season? I know naysayers will point to his 45 saves. What if he had a 7.00 e.r.a. with 45 saves? Should he still keep his job? Give it to Betancourt (3rd most valuable player on that team) and don't look back.

On a side note, I like Hafner this year, but you have to take into consideration that last year's HUGE dropoff in production put question marks into everybody's head. Nobody likes to draft a guy within the first 10 rounds with question marks let alone the first 5 rounds.

Good luck. I still enjoy your posts, you clearly love baseball, time to talk about players on other teams though.

[ January 10, 2008, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Crazy Like a Fox ]

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:44 am

Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

quote:Originally posted by Less than Dave:

1. Bedard might be going to Seattle.. not a good team.

2. CC's weight has never been an issue with his pitching.. I am predicting another CY Young.

3. Cleveland big fall?? Why?? Hafner will be back at full strength mashing the ball, Garko will have a big year, Grady will have a better year, and our young guys will all continue to develop.. the only thing this team really lacks is veteran leadership for the playoffs... the core of players is awesome tho. No offense Less than Dave, you speak like a fan of the Indians, instead of a fan of baseball as a whole. It's hard to appreciate what you say when it's obviously fan bias. Just a word of advice. You sound like you're a dedicated fan of the Indians and there's nothing wrong with that, but if you think everything is gravy in Cleveland you're wrong.

Some of their decision perplex me. Why in the hell do they have Borowski closing?? I think it could be the first time in the history of baseball that a closer with a 5 e.r.a. with 1.40+ whip can retain a job for a full season. And he keeps his job for another season? I know naysayers will point to his 45 saves. What if he had a 7.00 e.r.a. with 45 saves? Should he still keep his job? Give it to Betancourt (3rd most valuable player on that team) and don't look back.

On a side note, I like Hafner this year, but you have to take into consideration that last year's HUGE dropoff in production put question marks into everybody's head. Nobody likes to draft a guy within the first 10 rounds with question marks let alone the first 5 rounds.

Good luck. I still enjoy your posts, you clearly love baseball, time to talk about players on other teams though. [/QUOTE]I am sorry I get a kick out of someone who has never played and probably never will play in this event giving advice to someone who put up a very respectable top 50 finish first year in.

[ January 10, 2008, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: Chest Rockwell ]

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:46 am

I had Borowski in 2006, didn't take him in 2007 and regretted it. Will I take him in 2008, probably not.

He is a second tier closer, but he got his 45 saves because he was on a good team. He also gave up too many hits.

Having said that, look at his game log. Except for three games out of the 69 he played in, he was money in the bank. Can you say great control? Taking out those three games, he gave up only 5 HR and 15 BB in 66 appearances (Yes, they did not let him pitch more than an inning). Again, without those three games, he gave up a hit an inning (still too much, but his control let him get away with it) and had a 1.25 WHIP (and a 3.234 ERA).

Where he really excelled over 2006 was his K rate went up averaging striking out a batter in 88% of innings pitched. If I were Cleveland, I would hand him the ball until he hits an extended rough spot. Or trade him if he has value and go with Betancoup!

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:56 am

I think this NFBC players are better than you because they put up the dough and had a good year is getting old.

Who cares?

I will enter one year when I can afford it.

For now, enter one of my satellites and ACTUALLY SEE IF YOU CAN BEAT ME. I mean, you play in the NFBC every year so I should be "dead money" right?

Joe Sambito · Post by **Joe Sambito** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:58 am

From a manager's perspective I think Betancourt is too valuable in his current role. As long as Borowski is adequate he is going to stay put. Those outs in the 7th and 8th inning, entering with men in scoring position and less than two outs where you need a K, Betancourt is your man. The Indians have a good thing going with their 'pen, I don't think they'll mess with the formula they came up with in '07. Will I draft Borowski? That is a different question, at some point I would, but chances are one of the other 14 owners will have a higher value on him than I.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:02 am

Originally posted by Joe Sambito:

From a manager's perspective I think Betancourt is too valuable in his current role. As long as Borowski is adequate he is going to stay put. Those outs in the 7th and 8th inning, entering with men in scoring position and less than two outs where you need a K, Betancourt is your man. The Indians have a good thing going with their 'pen, I don't think they'll mess with the formula they came up with in '07. Will I draft Borowski? That is a different question, at some point I would, but chances are one of the other 14 owners will have a higher value on him than I. I agree. He is too valuable in his current role to want to move him. The point I'm making is, can the Indians tolerate Borowski as closer any longer and the best available option is Betancourt.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:05 am

Originally posted by Joe Sambito:

From a manager's perspective I think Betancourt is too valuable in his current role. As long as Borowski is adequate he is going to stay put. Those outs in the 7th and 8th inning, entering with men in scoring position and less than two outs where you need a K, Betancourt is your man. The Indians have a good thing going with their 'pen, I don't think they'll mess with the formula they came up with in '07. Will I draft Borowski? That is a different question, at some point I would, but chances are one of the other 14 owners will have a higher value on him than I. I would love Dave's perspective as an Indians fan if he sees anything to the notion that Betancourt cannot go back to back days effectively?

As far as Crazy- If I do drop down and do a snake satellite trust me it will be yours. Although you seem like a bit of a new man in 2008 and actually say some intelligent things. I need you to go back to your 2007 rhetoric of Gomes hitting 40, Dice K with an era of 5, Zito will do well in SF, and Big Unit will be huge b/c he is back in the NL. That guy was way easy money, the new you may be a challenge well then again probably not.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:22 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by Joe Sambito:

From a manager's perspective I think Betancourt is too valuable in his current role. As long as Borowski is adequate he is going to stay put. Those outs in the 7th and 8th inning, entering with men in scoring position and less than two outs where you need a K, Betancourt is your man. The Indians have a good thing going with their 'pen, I don't think they'll mess with the formula they came up with in '07. Will I draft Borowski? That is a different question, at some point I would, but chances are one of the other 14 owners will have a higher value on him than I. I would love Dave's perspective as an Indians fan if he sees anything to the notion that Betancourt cannot go back to back days effectively?

As far as Crazy- If I do drop down and do a snake satellite trust me it will be yours. Although you seem like a bit of a new man in 2008 and actually say some intelligent things. I need you to go back to your 2007 rhetoric of Gomes hitting 40, Dice K with an era of 5, Zito will do well in SF, and Big Unit will be huge b/c he is back in the NL. That guy was way easy money, the new you may be a challenge well then again probably not. [/QUOTE]I have to admit I was out of control last year.

I did say Gomes had "potential" to hit 40 homers with playing time, Dice K would have an 5 e.r.a. (off by .60) be in the minors by the All-Star break (dead wrong) and Unit would take a run to a run and a half off his e.r.a. in the NL (right on). Hey, I also said Utley was a better pick than Soriano and pretty much everybody disagreed.

I learned a lot last year. To use a sports analogy, "I'm trying to stay within myself" this year.

I'm facing some tough competition in my satellites though, I welcome all NFBC members to the March 6th Winner-Take-All satellite. Already 3 main event members signed up out of 5.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:31 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by Joe Sambito:

From a manager's perspective I think Betancourt is too valuable in his current role. As long as Borowski is adequate he is going to stay put. Those outs in the 7th and 8th inning, entering with men in scoring position and less than two outs where you need a K, Betancourt is your man. The Indians have a good thing going with their 'pen, I don't think they'll mess with the formula they came up with in '07. Will I draft Borowski? That is a different question, at some point I would, but chances are one of the other 14 owners will have a higher value on him than I. I would love Dave's perspective as an Indians fan if he sees anything to the notion that Betancourt cannot go back to back days effectively?

As far as Crazy- If I do drop down and do a snake satellite trust me it will be yours. Although you seem like a bit of a new man in 2008 and actually say some intelligent things. I need you to go back to your 2007 rhetoric of Gomes hitting 40, Dice K with an era of 5, Zito will do well in SF, and Big Unit will be huge b/c he is back in the NL. That guy was way easy money, the new you may be a challenge well then again probably not. [/QUOTE]Here's what I said about Zito last year.

Get your facts straight.

December 30th, 2006

________________________________________________

"and the young Cain will surely have a better year in 2007.

How can the Giants give the biggest pitcher's contract ever to a #2?

I know Zito is at a nice age, has won a Cy Young and never gets hurt yada yada. But this is ridiculous. He's not a great pitcher, he's a good pitcher. The last 3 years Zito has a 4.32 e.r.a. pitching at home in one of the best pitcher's parks in baseball.

I guess the Gil Meche contract looks worse but I'm befuddled by a team that doesn't usually spend very much money to throw $130 million at a guy who'll give you maybe 15 wins with a 3.80 e.r.a."

_______________________________________________

February 18th, 2007 I said:

_______________________________________________

"You can make an argument that Barry Zito went from being the most underrated pitcher in baseball to the most overrated in one day......the day he signed that contract."

_______________________________________________

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:37 am

Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

quote:Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by Joe Sambito:

From a manager's perspective I think Betancourt is too valuable in his current role. As long as Borowski is adequate he is going to stay put. Those outs in the 7th and 8th inning, entering with men in scoring position and less than two outs where you need a K, Betancourt is your man. The Indians have a good thing going with their 'pen, I don't think they'll mess with the formula they came up with in '07. Will I draft Borowski? That is a different question, at some point I would, but chances are one of the other 14 owners will have a higher value on him than I. I would love Dave's perspective as an Indians fan if he sees anything to the notion that Betancourt cannot go back to back days effectively?

As far as Crazy- If I do drop down and do a snake satellite trust me it will be yours. Although you seem like a bit of a new man in 2008 and actually say some intelligent things. I need you to go back to your 2007 rhetoric of Gomes hitting 40, Dice K with an era of 5, Zito will do well in SF, and Big Unit will be huge b/c he is back in the NL. That guy was way easy money, the new you may be a challenge well then again probably not. [/QUOTE]Here's what I said about Zito last year.

Get your facts straight.

December 30th, 2006

________________________________________________

"and the young Cain will surely have a better year in 2007.

How can the Giants give the biggest pitcher's contract ever to a #2?

I know Zito is at a nice age, has won a Cy Young and never gets hurt yada yada. But this is ridiculous. He's not a great pitcher, he's a good pitcher. The last 3 years Zito has a 4.32 e.r.a. pitching at home in one of the best pitcher's parks in baseball.

I guess the Gil Meche contract looks worse but I'm befuddled by a team that doesn't usually spend very much money to throw $130 million at a guy who'll give you maybe 15 wins with a 3.80 e.r.a."

_______________________________________________

February 18th, 2007 I said:

_______________________________________________

"You can make an argument that Barry Zito went from being the most underrated pitcher in baseball to the most overrated in one day......the day he signed that contract."

_______________________________________________ [/QUOTE]Oh Crazy and you are indeed Crazy that posts means nothing cuz you talk out of both sides of your mouth constantly. IE this thread one minute betancourt should be the closer next minute he is far more valuable as a set up guy.

It should make you happy that I am thinking about joining your satellite. I would like to take my swings against Rick Thomas, and I always enjoy and have a lot of respect for Patrick. Mind if I bring along a few friends?

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:56 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

quote:Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by Joe Sambito:

From a manager's perspective I think Betancourt is too valuable in his current role. As long as Borowski is adequate he is going to stay put. Those outs in the 7th and 8th inning, entering with men in scoring position and less than two outs where you need a K, Betancourt is your man. The Indians have a good thing going with their 'pen, I don't think they'll mess with the formula they came up with in '07. Will I draft Borowski? That is a different question, at some point I would, but chances are one of the other 14 owners will have a higher value on him than I. I would love Dave's perspective as an Indians fan if he sees anything to the notion that Betancourt cannot go back to back days effectively?

As far as Crazy- If I do drop down and do a snake satellite trust me it will be yours. Although you seem like a bit of a new man in 2008 and actually say some intelligent things. I need you to go back to your 2007 rhetoric of Gomes hitting 40, Dice K with an era of 5, Zito will do well in SF, and Big Unit will be huge b/c he is back in the NL. That guy was way easy money, the new you may be a challenge well then again probably not. [/QUOTE]Here's what I said about Zito last year.

Get your facts straight.

December 30th, 2006

________________________________________________

"and the young Cain will surely have a better year in 2007.

How can the Giants give the biggest pitcher's contract ever to a #2?

I know Zito is at a nice age, has won a Cy Young and never gets hurt yada yada. But this is ridiculous. He's not a great pitcher, he's a good pitcher. The last 3 years Zito has a 4.32 e.r.a. pitching at home in one of the best pitcher's parks in baseball.

I guess the Gil Meche contract looks worse but I'm befuddled by a team that doesn't usually spend very much money to throw $130 million at a guy who'll give you maybe 15 wins with a 3.80 e.r.a."

_______________________________________________

February 18th, 2007 I said:

_______________________________________________

"You can make an argument that Barry Zito went from being the most underrated pitcher in baseball to the most overrated in one day......the day he signed that contract."

_______________________________________________ [/QUOTE]Oh Crazy and you are indeed Crazy that posts means nothing cuz you talk out of both sides of your mouth constantly. IE this thread one minute betancourt should be the closer next minute he is far more valuable as a set up guy.

It should make you happy that I am thinking about joining your satellite. I would like to take my swings against Rick Thomas, and I always enjoy and have a lot of respect for Patrick. Mind if I bring along a few friends? [/QUOTE]I think you would be good competition. I want this to be a competitive league so feel free to bring along as many "friends" as you like.

Get in there fast. Place your bets folks. What are the chances Crazy beats out Rick Thomas and others?

20-1?

You gotta believe.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:59 am

Apparently I have to talk slowly when explaining my thoughts.

Betancourt is most effective and more important in the bullpen than he could be at closer.

My point about Betancourt being the best suiter for closer on the Indians is my lack of trust I have in Borowski.

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:04 am

less than dave = good fantasy player and big indians fan. cc= you can carry that weight- but not year after year- it will start to effect him. 2007 was a career year and 1st time healthy. indians- last 3 hitters wouldn't make the astros last 3- and thats as bad as it gets. pitching= not good. they will be the 2007 whitesox. sorry. but hey- draft all the indians- bet you don't. too good at fantasy. i loved cc last year- took him in my 2 satelites. took dice ove him in our draft- big mistake. good luck mike

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:06 am

dave- speaking of closers and starters- seattle = putz. baltimore =?????. better team. way better

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 am

Originally posted by Less than Dave:

Gekko: why is the 5th round too early for Smoltz? It's ahead of his ADP on MDC, but he is a very solid pitcher with no weaknesses other than age maybe. Because I can get him in the 6th.

Because there are better options in the 5th.

Take your pick.

Less than Dave · Post by **Less than Dave** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:28 pm

hahaha ok, well, I don't know how the draft went so I can't say whether Smoltz it was a good pick or bad one.