What Keeps You Coming Back To The NFBC?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:41 am

If there's one thing I don't do a good enough job of with the NFBC it's surveying my customers after the event or after the season. Tom and I are so busy putting out magazines, preparing for the next event and running the leagues that we just don't have the time or available staff to survey all of you. Fortunately, I call folks before each season to recruit them to return and at those times I do get feedback from them. But I realize, I should do a better job of surveying all of our members.

In the future, I promise to do that if we can expand beyond just Tom and me.

Anyway, yesterday when talking to an original NFBC member, he noted that one of his buddies probably wouldn't return because after four years of not placing he finally didn't feel up for another run at a title. At that point, I realized how lucky we are to have so many die-hard players back each year, even 70 or so owners who have been here all five years. And I wondered why they kept coming back each year.

So I'll ask:

What makes you continue to want to compete in the NFBC each year? What do you like best about the NFBC competition? And what would likely make you stop playing in the NFBC?

If you had to rate in order, what do you like best:

The tough competition with other die-hard owners

The league setup and rules format with no trading

The lure of the $100,000 grand prize

The comraderie of the event and competition

The trust that the prize payment will be there

The customer service and fun at the draft

Other

I'm not looking for brown-nosed responses and I know that there are things we could do better. But I'd love to know from NFBC veterans why you sign up in October for the event in March and why Draft Day is set aside so early for many of you. We're lucky that we've found 500+ die-hards who want to stick with the NFBC and I'm just looking for ways that we've luckily found you to stick with us. And in the end, we'll make sure that we improve on those good points so that we don't lose the good customers we currently have.

Over the last three years, between 75-80 percent of our customers come back to the main event each year. We already have over 220 owners back from last year's list of 375 owners and I know more are still returning. That's awesome and I'm proud of that fact. Consider this my first informal survey where you can really tell us what you like, what you don't like and what we can do to improve the NFBC.

Thanks all.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:06 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

What makes you continue to want to compete in the NFBC each year? What do you like best about the NFBC competition? And what would likely make you stop playing in the NFBC?

If you had to rate in order, what do you like best:

The tough competition with other die-hard owners

The league setup and rules format with no trading

The lure of the $100,000 grand prize

The comraderie of the event and competition

The trust that the prize payment will be there

The customer service and fun at the draft

Other

What I like best is the competition- nothing would make me ever leave the overall contest except a family emergency. I could see myself leaving the main event if it becomes 500 guys chasing the 100k.

The tough competition with other die-hard owners

The comraderie of the event and competition

The league setup and rules format with no trading

The customer service and fun at the draft

The positives far outweigh the positives. I do think there was a lot more hiccups last year than any other year and hope for a rebound. IE does the name Jack Cust ring a bell. I think Greg will learn from this excercise that he may rate the lure of the 100k a lot more than his participants. It is a pipe dream to a lot of players. Use the extra revenue to bring league prizes up. Srebro writes something about it not being a pipe dream to him in 3,2,1

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:36 am

I can understand why the 100K is a pipe dream to a lot of players. Although for some, it's simply a matter of time.

Hi chest!

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:49 am

It's simply having a rock solid outlet for this passion/hobby/addiction I have toward this game. By rock solid I mean having full time accessibility to the contest moderators (emails and phone calls are returned even on weekends)and knowing the rules, the contest site and FUTURE seasons can be banked on.

Getting to know the competition is a another huge plus in my book. Over the years the meeting and greeting have meshed with the draft itself to become one of the most anticipated days of the year.

Having other people share the intensity of this hobby at the same level as you is priceless. Outside this band of brothers who cares how your team did and what your team looks like

Winning here proves your mettle and what you've done here is acknowledged by the best players in this hobby. The competition is extreme which makes losing $ a harsh reality. The major cash return in flux is quite a rush and can't be duplicated anywhere else.

This contest has JUICE and is here to stay.

Q

751542 · Post by **751542** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:56 am

alot of different reasons come to mind... but i keep getting overwhelmed by the fisher party...oopppsss wrong sport...RT

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:11 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:

It's simply having a rock solid outlet for this passion/hobby/addiction I have toward this game. By rock solid I mean having full time accessibility to the contest moderators (emails and phone calls are returned even on weekends)and knowing the rules, the contest site and FUTURE seasons can be banked on.

Getting to know the competition is a another huge plus in my book. Over the years the meeting and greeting have meshed with the draft itself to become one of the most anticipated days of the year.

Having other people share the intensity of this hobby at the same level as you is priceless. Outside this band of brothers who cares how your team did and what your team looks like

Winning here proves your mettle and what you've done here is acknowledged by the best players in this hobby. The competition is extreme which makes losing $ a harsh reality. The major cash return in flux is quite a rush and can't be duplicated anywhere else.

This contest has JUICE and is here to stay.

Q very well said

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:15 am

The Coronas

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:25 am

I doubt new members sign up because they like the idea of drafting on a grand scale, but in fairness to the question, yes, that is a huge attraction in bringing people back. Going to an actual live competition is addictive and far better than drafting on a computer, even if I can't listen to my i-tunes drafting set list!

As for the money, I completely disagree with Chest. It seems highly unlikely that people spend $1300 because they are thrilled about their 1 in 15 chance to win $5000. I think even if you suck, you still have the hope that you'll pull it together just right one year and win the bragging rights and paycheck for the top spot.

But Chest is speculating, as I am, about what other people want. Fact is that he thinks he can win the overall and so do I. Let's determine that it's a pipedream when people actually say it is.

I'd most like to see revenue go toward #2 and 3 overall so that out of 500 or 600 you still feel like you have the same chances at a big prize as you had when there were 300.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:28 am

I'll rank 'em like this...

1-The tough competition with other die-hard owners

I've found in life that there seems to be a million self proclaimed "poser" sports fans for every truly hard core sports fan. These higher stakes leagues run here seem to attract the real ones...thus bringing the competition level to a peak...my kind of environment. I have no desire to compete in a free league for fun. Even though others may say the contrary...the more money at risk...the better the focus on winning. The more focus on winning (effort)...the better the competition. The very first time I found out there were others with the balls to risk over $1,000 to compete in fantasy sports...I was pleased. These Message Boards have some of the best of the best.

2-The camaraderie of the event and competition

This goes hand in hand with answer #1. Just look at where folks are from. I would have to travel all over the United States to get high quality conversation that wasn't just fluff of ESPN regurgitation. (From what I can see...only Bjoak is within an hours drive from where I live....die hards with balls are hard to find in sports-bars.) It's nice to have a place to communicate with others that share our passion.

3-The league setup and rules format with no trading.

This one is mostly important to avoid collusion. The NFBC rotisserie scoring is fairly standard...but the Bidding for free agents is as fair as it gets. (other than my dream of non-blind, but actual "live" e-bay type bidding, where the players all are sold on Friday night (or whenever agreed upon)...and you can chose to place a high bid...or "snipe" others bids.) I love the element of difficulty 15 teams adds for baseball. I'd like a bigger bench...but that's just my preference.

4-The customer service and fun at the draft.

The customer service of the Message Board is more important. Any fun draft-weekend activity helps wash away the memory of a bad season to a degree...the fun of a draft weekend is a big plus in my mind. I do admit the experience of the 2007 WCOFF draft and activities was freaking awesome. (So long as it doesn't put them in a bind financially and jeopardise the long term success of the event.)

5-The lure of the $100,000 grand prize.

Only one guy or gal gets this one each year. I personally like high payouts for the leagues we have control over. At the same time I don't see much sense in organizing an online draft, single league and lopping 20 cents on the dollar off the prize pool when this can be organized privately for much less money.

I do like the idea of satellite leagues winning entries for future leagues. Just like a satellite for a main event in Poker. I can swallow the 80% payback BECAUSE of the $100,000.00 (or more) grand prize. I don't know, nor really want to know all the money and effort it takes to run a high stakes competition. I see the entry fee...the league payouts...and the overall payouts...and make my decision. It's the single leagues I have a problem with.

The higher entry Ultimate leagues will be the direction I evolve toward once I establish some success this year. It has the best competition (which I crave)...control over the league (being in it)...higher percentage payouts...and less of the "crap shoot" effect of being the best of the best of a bunch of leagues.

6-The trust that the prize payment will be there.

This could be at #1...but if there was any doubt...I'd not even consider the league.

~Lance

[ February 09, 2008, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:46 am

MANDATORY REQUIREMENTS for GG to play...

** no worries about prize money being paid out

** no trading

Specially, what i like best about the nfbc...

1a) big grand prize

1b) customer service

1c) comraderie of the event and competition

cribgusto · Post by **cribgusto** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:49 am

I haven't done the main for a couple years, but I'm hopeful I will next year, and in any event, main or satellite(s), I'm NFBC for life. Reasons?

1) Competition level. - At its most basic level, we all play this game to demonstrate that we know more than other people. It's not enough to do that in home games, so NFBC has naturally come to serve as the mountaintop. The people who've done it know that it is a test greater than most any league in existence, 11x11 leagues notwithstanding.

2) Professional Management. - It is easy to see that the gang running this event care a lot about it and very much want it to excel and grow. That dedication can't help but attract and keep the participants. Compared to all the other Internet fantasy baseball providers, NFBC is the most reliable, which I like.

3) League setup. - This goes along with #1 above, it's a real test and not just another 10 team mixed waste of time.

4) Camaraderie. - At my two mains, there was just something good about being in a room with all these people who love the same thing you do. High-level fantasy baseball dedication isn't necessarily something you advertise on your chest (unless you buy a great NFBC shirt, see the front page for details

) and to know that there's a community out there, I don't know, there's something cool about that.

The others are nice too, but these stand out for me.

rkulaski · Post by **rkulaski** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:19 am

This will be my second year in the NFBC main (3rd year for satellites) so I haven't been here as long as others but thought I'd give you some feedback why I will keep coming back each year (either to the main or ultimate). I may not post as much as many of the hard core vets that have been a part of the NFBC since year 1, but I read the boards every day and, like someone already posted, only a family emergency will stop me from returning to the main event in March and August each year...

here's how I'd rank it (no surprises):

1. The $100k and league payouts. It's been said, but the more $ at stake, the more effort you will put forth to manage a winning team. Therefore, the competition is better and this is definitely makes fantasy baseball more fun.

2. League rules. After seeing an advertisement for the NFBC in Fantasy Sports Magazine, I went to the website. The first thing I did was read the rules - very important. What lured me here and will keep me here? 1. no trading, 2. 15 team leagues (like it much better than 12), 3. FAAB. These 3 rules were key to drawing me to the NFBC.

3. The competition (which is indirectly tied to #1)

4. Customer service. Greg and Tom are not only active on these boards, but they answer every question and they do it in a timely manner. Hard to get any better than that (basing this upon my experience only)

5. Comraderie- it's last on the list but deserves to be mentioned.

Side note: I think Lance mentioned this (if I understood his post correctly), but I am leaning toward doing an Ultimate league next year instead of the main. Reason- The likelihood to win $40k (or the likelihood to win $40k twice) feels more within my control competing against one 15-team league than it does against 390 teams (and many separate leagues that I am not a part of). The entry of the ultimate is 3x > the main, but it is very tempting for next yr.

[ February 09, 2008, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: rkulaski ]

Top Dawg · Post by **Top Dawg** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:58 am

Back for a 5th straight year, after serious consideration of backing off and only doing a few satellites. So,why did I suddenly change my mind?

1) Greg is a tip-top samesman and offered a nice hat....

2) Customer service, which goes back to both Greg and Tom. I love that they offer us "chats at 2:00" and bring in guests to answer our same questions over and over. Like someone else just said, even if I don't post everyday, I try to read what everyone else is posting.

3A) Lure of the $100K. I know it takes a great draft and top rate management to get there, but I can't help feeling that almost every winner also had his fair share of good fortune with late round picks. Maybe my day will come when I draft a couple of guys like that and I am in the running for the big bucks.

3B) The rules and league set-up. I love the "no trades" and FAAB. I still can't manage my FAAB, but I love the rule.

4) Having fun at the draft and looking at all the boards when it is over. The live draft is 100X more fun than the MDC drafts. Nothing else comes close.

Last and far down the list.... competition. In fact, I think I need to be in a league with much LESS competition. How about a "draft losers" league with no Eddie's, GG's, KOQ's, Roundtrippers and guys like that..... Honestly when I see the leagues posted I PRAY none of them are anywhere near my table.

Pete

[ February 09, 2008, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Top Dawg ]

EliGrimmett · Post by **EliGrimmett** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:59 am

I played in 2006 and will play this year.

1. Not having to be the commissioner (I got blasted by half the league last year for upholding the rules and not bending them for rookie owners - I'd hate to be the commissioner of a league as big as the NFBC!)

2. Knowing the money is on it's way.

3. 100k prize.

4. League set-up and rules.

stargells star · Post by **stargells star** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:32 pm

For me it's the face to face drafting against worthy opponents, the protection against collusion is important as well, the FAAB is also very cool and is like a game within a game,this is most definitely the best format i have ever played.

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:04 pm

Hi Greg,

I couldn't let a thread asking for feedback slide could I? Here are my thoughts:

Reasons I play at NFBC:

1. Well run, ethical, trusted management team

2. Live, well run, drafts just can't be beat

3. Great competition

Things that keep me from playing more leagues (besides my lack of funds)

1. While I love the FAAB approach, the time it takes to manage my bids is too long (what about the ability to copy bid chains between teams?)

2. Stats system stability

3. Not enough innings requirement has allowed people to abuse pitching (you have implemented additional innings for this year, perhaps this will fix it)

Regards,

Spy

Red Sox Nation · Post by **Red Sox Nation** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:56 pm

NFBC lifer. First class event run professionally.

1. The lure of the $100,000 grand prize

2. The league setup and rules format with no trading

3. The tough competition with other die-hard owners

4. The camaraderie of the event and competition

5. The trust that the prize payment will be there

6. The customer service and fun at the draft

PS I do agree with Spyhunter on a few of his recommendations though around FAAB. I'm hoping STATS can improve this system this year. Maybe for the folks who have 1 team its not a big deal, but for the owners with 3 plus teams Sundays can be nightmares. It takes too long to tweak bids. And if you have a long bid thread you better hope the guy on top is going to stay on top because if not you'll have to create a whole new bid. Very time consuming! I think if STATS can fix this you'll see an increase in business as owners will take on even more teams.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:04 pm

Would Economics 101 dictate that we would need to win the whole shebang once every 20 tries just to wash when including the costs of travel and taxes and such...and once every 8-10 years or so when calculating man hours put into it?

Let's just say our bloated self appraisals and borderline unquenchable thirst for competition rule here.

~Lance

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:17 pm

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

borderline unquenchable thirst The last words I thought I'd ever hear from you

viper · Post by **viper** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:31 am

This event sold me by their year one decisions. The prize lists were based on about 300 entries and it became evident they would be short [the only year that has happened]. After what must have been lots of internal discussions, they decided to run the event without lowering the prize funds at all. This must be close to unprecedented. There were 195 of us competing for a prize fund designed for many more. They wanted to be the premiere fantasy event and they put their money where their mouth was. Equally impressive was how candid Greg was to all the participants one the boards about this.

I did the main event in New York the first three years. Last year I had five satellite teams and this year three so far.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:46 am

Originally posted by viper:

This event sold me by their year one decisions. The prize lists were based on about 300 entries and it became evident they would be short [the only year that has happened]. After what must have been lots of internal discussions, they decided to run the event without lowering the prize funds at all. This must be close to unprecedented. There were 195 of us competing for a prize fund designed for many more. They wanted to be the premiere fantasy event and they put their money where their mouth was. Equally impressive was how candid Greg was to all the participants one the boards about this.

I did the main event in New York the first three years. Last year I had five satellite teams and this year three so far. Thanks for this post Mike. I have been candid about those discussions, but nobody REALLY knows how tough those discussions were here. Unbeknown to me at the time, our company was in the process of selling to a new owner and the last thing they wanted to do was lose money on any product. The fact that we were trying to build this event for future years was understood by everyone at the time, but it was still tricky to move forward as planned when we were trying to sell the company.

Fortunately for me, everyone made the right decision that day and a few people put their butts on the line in the process, mine included. We lost money in football as well that year -- 224 teams based on a prize structure of 350 teams -- but again the decision was made to guarantee the prizes. We lost the same amount in each sport, but we have sold out in baseball every year since 2005 and we finally sold out in football in 2007.

The right decisions were made that March day in 2004, but I can tell you that nobody knows how tough those decisions were because of what was going on with the sale of the company. Thank goodness enough people had the foresight to make the right decisions back then.

hankstr · Post by **hankstr** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:07 am

Greg,

Count me in as one of those who loves the great competition. I'm one of the 5 year guys and hope to be a 50 year guy (anticipating gains in medical science).

However, it must be said that the customer service is unrivaled. I've always had a quick response from you when I've emailed. There is no question you value your customers!

billywaz · Post by **billywaz** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:28 am

This is my 2nd year of doing fantasy baseball in the NFBC (hadn't played before that since 94), and although I am still just currently doing satellites, my reasons are simple....

1) It passes the time until fantasy football season.

2) I like the 15 team leagues as opposed to 12 (same with NFFC 14), as it takes more skill IMO.

3) The NFFC has top notch customer service, and it obviously carries over to the NFBC.

4) I have met a lot of great people through the NFFC, and many play in the NFBC also (the comraderie is priceless IMO).

5) I eventually plan to get in the Main Event, make some cash, and show Gekko "who his daddy is" in both Main Events! (sans 2004 of course

!)

In all seriousness, although last year I pretty much decided to do it on my own, Gekko and King of Queens can be given credit for pushing me into the direction of a 2009 Main Event debut for me and giving me some helpful tips along the way.

So if I start winning too much ca$h, you can blame them!

I know I will be the first to put the blame on them when my wife wants to divorce me!

Best of luck to everyone this year, I will be watching and learning as best I can with the training wheels still on!

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:37 am

Originally posted by billywaz:

In all seriousness, although last year I pretty much decided to do it on my own, Gekko and King of Queens can be given credit for pushing me into the direction of a 2009 Main Event debut for me and giving me some helpful tips along the way. I'm still working on 2008!

It looks like a spot just opened up in New York.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:41 am

Billy, you forgot the most important reason:

6) A certain slithery someone doesn't participate in the NFBC!