Week 12 Drops

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Edwards Kings
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Week 12 Drops

Post by Edwards Kings » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:35 am

Originally posted by bjoak:

Euclid doesn't have a female counterpart, but his g/f is named Hypatia. Don't tell him I told you. He likes to keep his private life private. Hypatia? That just doesn't add up. :D
Baseball is a slow, boring, complex, cerebral game that doesn't lend itself to histrionics. You 'take in' a baseball game, something odd to say about a football or basketball game, with the clock running and the bodies flying.
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KJ Duke
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Post by KJ Duke » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:40 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Duke - u said there were better guys than church available every week via faab. If that's the case, u must have one stellar team. I know you cream yourself twice a day with your thames pickup, but come on dog. Church was better than Tex this year. Stop the church hate'n.



Volquez and mclouth were "low-level" guys b4 this year too. McLouth looked like a young guy on the verge of putting it together late last season (at a typical age), Volq was an upside prospect who is living up to his potential, so far.



Church is a 30-yr old journeyman who has had chances and disappointed. I would put him in the same category as Thames actually - be thankful for the good production but don't expect it to continue. If we're lucky they keep it up all season, but its not something I'd bet on.



[ June 17, 2008, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

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KJ Duke
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Post by KJ Duke » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:47 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Duke - u said there were better guys than church available every week via faab. I think I said comparable players. I also didn't say one person could get all of them, only that they're available. Looking at LV3 over the last 5 weeks ...



Wk 10 - E Dukes

Wk 9 - M Thames

Wk 8 - A Casilla

Wk 7 - B Francisco, J Hairston

etc, etc

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Post by eddiejag » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:49 am

Ryan Church are you kidding me. He was aviable in two of my leagues and went about 40 bucks.You cant be pulling out guys like this or even Martinez.Martinez hasnt even hit a homer and will miss another 6 to weeks 8 weeks. I didnt think Tulo should have been pulled either. The rule should be for stud players not journeyman and good players who are hurt. You can go to any league and find players like these three. It will be a long season if we are worried about a hurt Ryan Church.Like i said he went 40 bucks thats 15 guys who could have bid and didnt, why because he's a risk with the concussion.I saw Oliver Perez this week , best free agent pitcher out their this year with upside.If you think their is collusion thats a different story and needs to be looked in to.
EDWARD J GILLIS

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KJ Duke
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Post by KJ Duke » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:05 am

Originally posted by eddiejag:

Ryan Church are you kidding me. He was aviable in two of my leagues and went about 40 bucks.You cant be pulling out guys like this or even Martinez.Martinez hasnt even hit a homer and will miss another 6 to weeks 8 weeks. I didnt think Tulo should have been pulled either. The rule should be for stud players not journeyman and good players who are hurt. You can go to any league and find players like these three. It will be a long season if we are worried about a hurt Ryan Church.Like i said he went 40 bucks thats 15 guys who could have bid and didnt, why because he's a risk with the concussion.I saw Oliver Perez this week , best free agent pitcher out their this year with upside.If you think their is collusion thats a different story and needs to be looked in to. Agree on Martinez too. I have him in the mag league and I'll drop him if and when I need his roster spot.



Martinez has been worth minus-$4 in value (position-adjusted) while healthy this season.



He shouldn't even be contemplated for removal unless it was highly likely he'd return to pre'08 form. I doubt he'd even get many $100 bids, if any. He is a speculation at best worth a few bucks if you have room for him.



If you look at the STATS player rating system, he is the 25th-ranked catcher this season. Guys he's been worse than: Kendall, Bako, Yadier, Flores, etc ...



[ June 17, 2008, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

Asumijet
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Post by Asumijet » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:32 am

It has nothing to do with collusion, and everything to do with fair access to players throughout the Main Event. When Tulo, Hafner and Martinez are dropped in the same league and in no other Main Event leagues the entire year, it can potentially put those in the other leagues at a disadvantage for the overall prize. These are "potential" game changing players that are not being dropped in other Main Event leagues for a reason.



Additionally, when Church is dropped one week and picked up for the 2nd highest FAAB amount in the Main Event leagues the next week, it demonstrates there was significant value dropped. And when no other Main Event league drops Church, it supports the fact that he is not the type of player that every league has access to picking-up.



If Tulo comes out, then the other players should come out as well. Can't change Church, but Hafner and Martinez should be pulled. Both are underperforming due to injuries/DL and have the same "potential" as Tulo to return to fantasy "difference maker" status upon return.
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KJ Duke
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Post by KJ Duke » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:41 am

Originally posted by Asumijet:

It has nothing to do with collusion, and everything to do with fair access to players throughout the Main Event. When Tulo, Hafner and Martinez are dropped in the same league and in no other Main Event leagues the entire year, it can potentially put those in the other leagues at a disadvantage for the overall prize. These are "potential" game changing players that are not being dropped in other Main Event leagues for a reason.



Additionally, when Church is dropped one week and picked up for the 2nd highest FAAB amount in the Main Event leagues the next week, it demonstrates there was significant value dropped. And when no other Main Event league drops Church, it supports the fact that he is not the type of player that every league has access to picking-up.



If Tulo comes out, then the other players should come out as well. Can't change Church, but Hafner and Martinez should be pulled. Both are underperforming due to injuries/DL and have the same "potential" as Tulo to return to fantasy "difference maker" status upon return. Would you pull Paul Bako and Jason Kendall too?

They've been more valuable than VMart. Same goes for many OFers ahead of Church. None of these players should've been pulled. Everyone has a finite amount of FAAB which they should be free to use or waste as they see fit.



McLouth is the only guy all season that warranted removal; he was healthy and performing like a top-tier player.

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Post by Gordon Gekko » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:55 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Everyone has a finite amount of FAAB which they should be free to use or waste as they see fit.

not everyone has access to the same free agents.



when four "stars" (Tulo, Hafner, Church and Martinez) who are dinged up, are all dropped in the SAME league, this is reason for concern.



we can keep going back and forth on this, but it won't solve anything. greg already pulled tulo. church was okayed to stay in and went to the 2nd place team in the league :eek: . now martinez and hafner are in the cross hairs. hafner i don't have a problem with. martinez may be a different story.



[ June 17, 2008, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

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Post by Gordon Gekko » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:06 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Same goes for many OFers ahead of Church. None of these players should've been pulled. let's see, when church was pulled after 1/3 of the season, he was on pace for...

100+ runs

30 homers

100+ rbi's

3 sb

.300 avg



on top of that he was moving up in the mets lineup to bat 5TH. those stats and piece of news makes him damn more valuable than $40 in some satellite league. at least in my book.

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KJ Duke
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Post by KJ Duke » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:06 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Everyone has a finite amount of FAAB which they should be free to use or waste as they see fit.

not everyone has access to the same free agents.



when four "stars" (Tulo, Hafner, Church and Martinez) who are dinged up, are all dropped in the SAME league, this is reason for concern.



we can keep going back and forth on this, but it won't solve anything. greg already pulled tulo. church was okayed to stay in and went to the 2nd place team in the league :eek: . now martinez and hafner are in the cross hairs. hafner i don't have a problem with. martinez may be a different story.
[/QUOTE]VMart is a name only. There are many other players that will be taken over the next few months that will FAR out-produce him for the remainder of the season. He had negative value when he was healthy, how could anyone possibly consider him a slam-dunk game changer of a pickup?

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KJ Duke
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Post by KJ Duke » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:09 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Same goes for many OFers ahead of Church. None of these players should've been pulled. let's see, when church was pulled after 1/3 of the season, he was on pace for...

100+ runs

30 homers

100+ rbi's

3 sb

.300 avg



on top of that he was moving up in the mets lineup to bat 5TH. those stats and piece of news makes him damn more valuable than $40 in some satellite league. at least in my book.
[/QUOTE]Sample size Gekko. Thames has 7 HRs in two weeks, what would that project out to?



Would you object if I dropped him in LV3?

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Post by Gordon Gekko » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:10 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Same goes for many OFers ahead of Church. None of these players should've been pulled. let's see, when church was pulled after 1/3 of the season, he was on pace for...

100+ runs

30 homers

100+ rbi's

3 sb

.300 avg



on top of that he was moving up in the mets lineup to bat 5TH. those stats and piece of news makes him damn more valuable than $40 in some satellite league. at least in my book.
[/QUOTE]Sample size Gekko. Thames has 7 HRs in two weeks, what would that project out to?



Would you object if I dropped him in LV3?
[/QUOTE]is he on pace for 100+ rbi and run? how about his batting average?



stop using bad examples as a foundation for your posts.

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Post by Gordon Gekko » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:12 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Sample size Gekko. you are forgetting...that's ALL greg has to go on. can volquez be dropped and remain in the faab pool? he's never had this kind of success before, yet his stats are pretty darn good in this SMALL SAMLE SIZE.

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Post by KJ Duke » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:18 pm

Since more or less being named the starting LFer 3 weeks ago he's hit 271, 9 HRs, 12-16 r/rbi. And, he's healthy.



That projects to:

271 BA

78 HR

104 R

139 RBI



Which is only slightly less realistic than Church hitting 300/30/100/100.

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KJ Duke
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Post by KJ Duke » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:22 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Sample size Gekko. you are forgetting...that's ALL greg has to go on. can volquez be dropped and remain in the faab pool? he's never had this kind of success before, yet his stats are pretty darn good in this SMALL SAMLE SIZE. [/QUOTE]Volquez is currently the #1 rated SP in the NFBC, and healthy. Church is the #75 rated hitter, and injured. Not much of a comparison there.



Another comparison, Church is 40th among OF, Thames in 61st with only 60% of AB. If you assume equal playing time going forward, no doubt Thames would be rated higher.



[ June 17, 2008, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

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Post by bjoak » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:30 pm

If you like Marcus Thames so much, why don't you just marry him?
Chance favors the prepared mind.

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KJ Duke
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Post by KJ Duke » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:37 pm

Originally posted by bjoak:

If you like Marcus Thames so much, why don't you just marry him? I don't, thats the point.



BTW, how is your "partner" Mr. Euclid?

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Post by bjoak » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:40 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by bjoak:

If you like Marcus Thames so much, why don't you just marry him? I don't, thats the point.



BTW, how is your "partner" Mr. Euclid?
[/QUOTE]Ouch. Euclid and I do not roll that way.
Chance favors the prepared mind.

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Post by KJ Duke » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:48 pm

Originally posted by bjoak:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by bjoak:

If you like Marcus Thames so much, why don't you just marry him? I don't, thats the point.



BTW, how is your "partner" Mr. Euclid?
[/QUOTE]Ouch. Euclid and I do not roll that way.
[/QUOTE]OK, I will save you both further embarrassment. But I hope you weren't fingering him when you wrote that.

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Post by Gordon Gekko » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:17 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Since more or less being named the starting LFer 3 weeks ago he's hit 271, 9 HRs, 12-16 r/rbi. And, he's healthy.



That projects to:

271 BA

78 HR

104 R

139 RBI



Which is only slightly less realistic than Church hitting 300/30/100/100. So now YOU are using 3 WEEKS as your sample size???? Me thinks somethings wrong with your thinking.

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Post by KJ Duke » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:21 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

Since more or less being named the starting LFer 3 weeks ago he's hit 271, 9 HRs, 12-16 r/rbi. And, he's healthy.



That projects to:

271 BA

78 HR

104 R

139 RBI



Which is only slightly less realistic than Church hitting 300/30/100/100. So now YOU are using 3 WEEKS as your sample size???? Me thinks somethings wrong with your thinking.
[/QUOTE]You made my point for me. Thanks. ;)

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Post by Gordon Gekko » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:30 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

You made my point for me. Thanks. ;) what YOU (AND ONLY YOU) using three weeks 3 weeks as your sample size??? you are being plain silly now.



just a bit of advice, i'd take a couple days off from doing baseball and just relax. you are wound a bit tight (at least that's the image you are giving off recently on the MB).

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Post by KJ Duke » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:45 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

You made my point for me. Thanks. ;) what YOU (AND ONLY YOU) using three weeks 3 weeks as your sample size??? you are being plain silly now.



just a bit of advice, i'd take a couple days off from doing baseball and just relax. you are wound a bit tight (at least that's the image you are giving off recently on the MB).
[/QUOTE]GG, I think you're missing the sarcasm. You're taking the best month and a half of Ryan Church's lackluster career and projecting it out over a season, which couldn't happen anyway because he is isn't even healthy, as usual. That doesn't make him a top player. No more than it makes my guy a top player after a few good weeks.



BTW, I'm not wound at all, just killing time. I know you're focused on trying to maintain a top spot and don't want anyone else getting an unfair advantage, but when you start believeing Ryan Church is one of the best hitters in the league I think it's clouding your judgement just a tad.

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Post by Gordon Gekko » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:51 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

GG, I think you're missing the sarcasm. You're taking the best month and a half of Ryan Church's lackluster career and projecting it out over a season, which couldn't happen anyway because he is isn't even healthy, as usual. That doesn't make him a top player. No more than it makes my guy a top player after a few good weeks.



BTW, I'm not wound at all, just killing time. I know you're focused on trying to maintain a top spot and don't want anyone else getting an unfair advantage, but when you start believeing Ryan Church is one of the best hitters in the league I think it's clouding your judgement just a tad. someone may be missing the point of where he hit the last two years and where he's hitting now. better ballpark. better lineup.



both would equate to better production, of which, he's done to a tee. now if he can ramin helthy, i'd expect more of the same with a slight dip in BA, but more steals. he's always been an extra base hitter even in a bad ballpark in washington.



[ June 17, 2008, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

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KJ Duke
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Post by KJ Duke » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:01 pm

I won't say you'll be wrong on your Church projection because its in the realm of possibile. But much worse numbers are possible too, and it wouldn't be shocking.



Bottom line is Greg pulls top players from the pool, and Church has neither been a top player this year nor any other year. He is rated 40th at his position on an objective NFBC model (not mine). Better players have historically been dropped and available.

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