Ideas For 2009 NFBC

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:01 am

Okay, it's the All-Star break, time for everyone to enjoy three days off, re-introduce themselves to the kids and then get back to the second half grind. Interestingly, only Major League Baseball can have a "mid-season classic" when 58% of the season is done. Did someone lose the calendar before 2008 or what?

Anyway, I thought this might be a good time to throw out some ideas for 2009. I know the economy is getting tougher and everything, but that doesn't mean we have to cater to high gas prices and just shut things down. We've had a solid 2008 season and next year with NBC Sports on board in the NFBC and able to promote our events to millions of their online users, I think even greater things are in store.

My plan is to have a host of events available for all to choose by early October and have our redesigned web site ready with those offerings. We are going to be ready for 2009 as soon as the 2008 season is complete.

With that in mind, I'm going to use this thread as a starting point for ideas. As you saw with last week's announcement, we have added a $1 million bonus in football for anyone who can win our two main events. We are hosting the ultimate fantasy football doubleheader this year in football, providing our 14-team NFFC draft at 1 p.m. EST on Saturday, Aug. 30th and then clearing out the room in all four cities and hosting a special 12-team NBC Sports main event at 7 p.m. EST. We're offering two chances to win $100,000 in the same day, along with a $1 million bonus.

My original plan for teaming with NBC Sports in baseball was to offer an online national championship and I may still do that. However, I'm learning a lot in football right now that can also translate to baseball. One thing I've learned is that our die-hard customers will play several formats once they have the travel expenses out of the way and I think we'll easily top 100 participants who will play in both main events this football season. So, do you think the format has the same merits in baseball? Could we offer two different main events, two $100,000 grand prizes and a $1 million bonus??

Unlike football where drafts are done in 2 1/2 hours, baseball drafts are marathons and you feel wiped out after one. So I don't want to do a doubleheader on Saturday, March 21st. But I am considering adding a main event on Friday night, March 20th that would allow folks to draft two different formats on two different days. Our 15-team NFBC format is solid and I wouldn't change a thing, but would folks be interested in a 12-team main event with a $100,000 grand prize?? It's something I'm considering.

If we did that, it would mess with our auction league schedule of events, but I'm thinking that all through. Could we move auction leagues to Friday morning or even Thursday night in Las Vegas?? It is March Madness in Las Vegas, so maybe folks wouldn't mind a Thursday-Friday-Saturday-Sunday schedule.

I'm not sure, but I'm thinking all of this through.

Branding NBC Sports' events as 12-team contests opens a new market for us, as well. The 15-team format is solid and I won't mess with that, but some new customers may prefer the 12-team format like they have in football. Having a 15-team and a 12-team main event along with satellite leagues could be fun. Any thoughts on this??

I am also toying with the idea of a national online championship for baseball, but the costs involved makes it tough to do that at lower price levels and thus we'd almost have to do it at $500 or so with a solid guaranteed grand prize. I was hoping to keep it at $350 or so, but we'd need a lot of teams then. I'm still working out the dynamics of this and hope to have something worked out soon enough. If we had a $20,000 grand prize, would an online championship appeal to you at $350-$500? Would you want a higher price, lesser price or is that about right? Right now, I'm leaning towards a 12-team format for the online championship as our 15-team online format is already solid for satellite leagues.

Again, all of this is in the planning stages of my mind and nothing is set yet. I appreciate the opinions and suggestions of my NFBC customers and that's why I'm throwing this out there for all to see. It would be foolish to just unveil a new dramatic plan without getting feedback from our best customers. So feel free to provide any input on this as I'm as interested to find out what you think as anyone else.

We have a good thing going with the NFBC, but our partnership with NBC Sports and Rotoworld.com allows us to grow this in new ways. Online championships is definitely one way we want to expand starting in 2009. And now a second live event with a new 12-team format is another possible option. Your thoughts are welcome. Thanks.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:16 am

Greg - good stuff!!! I'll get you some thoughts later today.

First question - for the 12 team leagues, what would rosters look like? Would there be more bench spots?

Tony Cincotta · Post by **Tony Cincotta** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:17 am

I think whatever you do is fine. The one thing that worries me is the ability to have the auction leagues. I see you mentioned that you would have the Auctions on Thursday in Vegas. Will that also be available in the other sites ? I hope so I find the auction to be my favorite form of Fantasy Baseball play. I know there is no gambling in Orlando, Chicago, and New York. I hope people would find something to do aand keep the auctions going.

Jesse Homer · Post by **Jesse Homer** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:30 am

Love the online championship idea. $500 would be fine with me.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:38 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Greg - good stuff!!! I'll get you some thoughts later today.

First question - for the 12 team leagues, what would rosters look like? Would there be more bench spots? It's a good question and one I haven't decided yet. Obviously with so many players the free agent pool will be much improved, but injuries still make it tough on teams. You can't go with an odd number without 3RR, so I'd consider 32 players, which is a 9-man bench. That's plenty big and maybe almost too big.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:41 am

Originally posted by Tony Cincotta:

I think whatever you do is fine. The one thing that worries me is the ability to have the auction leagues. I see you mentioned that you would have the Auctions on Thursday in Vegas. Will that also be available in the other sites ? I hope so I find the auction to be my favorite form of Fantasy Baseball play. I know there is no gambling in Orlando, Chicago, and New York. I hope people would find something to do aand keep the auctions going. It's possible to host the auction leagues in those cities on Friday morning and still have plenty of time inbetween the auctions and the live drafts. That would be one option that would make more sense than having folks get into New York City an extra day. So LV might be the only smart place to do auctions on Thursdays, but I'm still thinking this all through.

Liquidhippo · Post by **Liquidhippo** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:52 am

Auctions on Thursday is a great idea! Heck, start them on Monday and I'll do auctions all week!

Million Dollar Prize for winning both would be great.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:58 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Unlike football where drafts are done in 2 1/2 hours, baseball drafts are marathons and you feel wiped out after one. So I don't want to do a doubleheader on Saturday, March 21st. But I am considering adding a main event on Friday night, March 20th that would allow folks to draft two different formats on two different days. Our 15-team NFBC format is solid and I wouldn't change a thing, but would folks be interested in a 12-team main event with a $100,000 grand prize?? It's something I'm considering.

If we did that, it would mess with our auction league schedule of events, but I'm thinking that all through. Could we move auction leagues to Friday morning or even Thursday night in Las Vegas?? It is March Madness in Las Vegas, so maybe folks wouldn't mind a Thursday-Friday-Saturday-Sunday schedule.

I'm not sure, but I'm thinking all of this through.With the same caution you mentioned about messing with the (great) current auction schedule, why not a three-fer? Could it be possible to have the existing $100k Main Mixed Draft, a $100k Main NL-only (13 team leagues) and a $100k Main AL-only (12 team leagues)? You could even try your one each day Thursday, Friday, Saturday scenario.

The additional $100k football event seemed to generate a splash of interest, would three for baseball generate more, or be too much?

[ July 14, 2008, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Edwards Kings ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:01 am

Greg,

I like the idea of having two “National Championships”. A concern of having a live TWO-DAY setup is that folks could steal” the players that Childs, Kenyon, Jupinka, etc… draft on Friday for their own teams on Saturday. With football you don’t really have that concern as both events are held the same day.

[ July 14, 2008, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:10 am

Greg,

Since you’ve brought on board the $1,000,000 bonus prize for winning the NFFC and NBC event, I’ve been doing cartwheels. 1 million is a lot of money and winning it could help get me out of waking up early to deliver newspapers.

Any thoughts in using bonus money to tie together baseball and football? Something like…

Football: Win the NFFC (14 teamer) AND NBC (12 teamer), win $1,000,000

Baseball: Win the NFBC (15 teamer) AND NBC (12 teamer), win $1,000,000

Combo #1: Win any two of the above events in the same year, win $100,000

Combo #2: Win any three of the above events in the same year, win $5,000,000

Combo #3: Win all four of the above events in the same year, win $10,000,000

JohnP · Post by **JohnP** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:16 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Greg,

Since you’ve brought on board the $1,000,000 bonus prize for winning the NFFC and NBC event, I’ve been doing cartwheels. 1 million is a lot of money and winning it could help get me out of waking up early to deliver newspapers.

Any thoughts in using bonus money to tie together baseball and football? Something like…

Football: Win the NFFC (14 teamer) AND NBC (12 teamer), win $1,000,000

Baseball: Win the NFBC (15 teamer) AND NBC (12 teamer), win $1,000,000

Combo #1: Win any two of the above events in the same year, win $100,000

Combo #2: Win any three of the above events in the same year, win $5,000,000

Combo #3: Win all four of the above events in the same year, win $10,000,000

JohnP · Post by **JohnP** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:17 am

Gekko - can we can the cartwheel thing on You Tube?

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:26 am

Originally posted by Trash Man:

Gekko - can we can the cartwheel thing on You Tube? Funny you should mention that. 2nite I'm filming 3+ football videos. I was thinking about doing a mid-season baseball one too. We'll see...

Asumijet · Post by **Asumijet** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:45 am

An assortment of random thoughts on the topic--

1. I think the 12-team league idea is a great format for the NBC. It should bring in players that are not as deep into the player pool as the rest of us and are already comfortable with the mass 10 and 12 team leagues. Thus, I think you open your market to more customers. Of course, you make that point already; just offering positive reinforcement.

2. Any thoughts of H2H. I know you are not a fan for baseball and the NFBC. But, the NFFC format might be a good fit for 12 teams in baseball. Each team plays each other twice. Then the last 4 weeks are a race for the overall. One, the different format is popular and familiar with the both the mass audience and your NFFC'ers. And thus might be an attractive format for new customers. Two, it provides a bit of variety and new strategy for consideration for all of the current NFBC'ers.

3. Price point- Given the economy, any thoughts on a $650 entry and $50,000 Top prize? It might be a more attractive price point for new customers. Lets assume 390 entries and say 100 decide to do both. You still need about 250-300 new customers at $1300 each. That might be tough to do next year. Second, a 2nd $1300 league might very well mean that we don't signup for an auction league or the online championship due to spouse enforced budgets and the economy. To this point, everyone is different, so you may want to gather some more formal marketing data on this point.

4. Online championship- again, price point and cannibalization of your current events are important considerations. If I want to participate in the Online Championship, I probably don't enter the satellites. In my opinion (again market research is far more valuable than my opinion), $500 does not seem to be strong price point for attracting new customers given other options.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:58 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Greg,

Since you’ve brought on board the $1,000,000 bonus prize for winning the NFFC and NBC event, I’ve been doing cartwheels. 1 million is a lot of money and winning it could help get me out of waking up early to deliver newspapers.

Any thoughts in using bonus money to tie together baseball and football? Something like…

Football: Win the NFFC (14 teamer) AND NBC (12 teamer), win $1,000,000

Baseball: Win the NFBC (15 teamer) AND NBC (12 teamer), win $1,000,000

Combo #1: Win any two of the above events in the same year, win $100,000

Combo #2: Win any three of the above events in the same year, win $5,000,000

Combo #3: Win all four of the above events in the same year, win $10,000,000 Any of that is possible, but we'd have to buy insurance for each one, which gets costly. Either that or we just roll the dice and finance it ourselves.

But I agree, tying in multiple championships in multiple sports is a great idea. But rather than getting the insurance company rich, maybe we can put actual prizes in place for the top teams in each combination. It's a work in progress, but it's an idea worth looking into.

jim.s · Post by **jim.s** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:14 pm

I think the new leagues you are suggesting are all good ideas (including online championship). You have the best run leagues that I have participated in. Two points:

1. I hope you keep (and possibly expand) the online satellite auctions.

2. Expanding functionality of the statistics software would be nice. When I do FA picks I keep switching to CBS Sportsline, BaseballHQ and others to get stats and up-to-date news. I know it would be prohibitively expensive to replicate software like that, but it would be great if you could make an arrangement to somehow link to a site that has more complete sortable stats and up-to-the-minute news.

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:18 pm

It would seem that Auction drafts would take a back seat to the NBC drafts. It would force a choice of either all day Thursday drafts to allow people to enjoy at least two auctions. Doing a morning Auction on Friday would limit people to one auction. But I'm pretty sure this is where it's headed. NBC wants a return on thier money.

It's a Gekko world. So all I can say is it's been fun for as long as it lasted! The Corp. types always end up screwing up a good thing! At least we made five years. Good luck all. It's been fun.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:37 pm

Originally posted by Walla Walla:

It would seem that Auction drafts would take a back seat to the NBC drafts. It would force a choice of either all day Thursday drafts to allow people to enjoy at least two auctions. Doing a morning Auction on Friday would limit people to one auction. But I'm pretty sure this is where it's headed. NBC wants a return on thier money.

It's a Gekko world. So all I can say is it's been fun for as long as it lasted! The Corp. types always end up screwing up a good thing! At least we made five years. Good luck all. It's been fun.

I don't think auctions have to take a back seat to anything, especially in Las Vegas where folks love to come in for March Madness anyway. The key is to talk with the folks who love that format and see if doing them on Thursday or Sunday makes the most sense if Friday is set aside for one main event. I love the auction leagues and the intention isn't to kill that format.

This really has nothing to do with NBC as this is all my plan. Once you pay for travel, I've learned that some folks like more options. We would be the ones taking the risk with these added choices as right now we could just sit back and keep offering the same things with a nice profit expected each year. But I think there's more we can do and more ways to attract new players to the NFBC. Thinking outside of the box got us this far, so what's wrong with a few new wrinkles?

We were a huge corporation when we started the NFBC and adding NBC hasn't changed anything. We just now have more resources to recruit more players and offer more contests. I'd love to hear from more folks whether they think expansion is a good idea or not and then I'll make my decision. Thanks for the input John as every response is respected.

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:04 pm

Greg, Sunday would be out because the high roller leagues are that day. So that leaves Thursday.

So your asking people who now do the autions on friday and the main event on Saturday to add an extra day for hotel and travel. If they don't do the NBC they waste a day waiting for the NFBC main. This will hurt the auctions. There will be those that want nothing to do with the NBC draft and will skip the auctions and just do the NFBC main. This is not good for the auctions but great for NBC I suppose.

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:13 pm

Greg, I was curious why you indicated that the online was too expensive to run? I would think that an online event is the cheapest to run (no hotel costs)??

Anyway, I know it would be a grind BUT, you could do both on Saturday. Start at 9am and go to ~2. Then take a break and do 4pm to 9 or 10pm?

As for the 12 team team size, I would leave at 7 or even 5 players bench. Frankly the whole point of moving to 12 player teams is lost if you do 32 players (i.e. 32*12 = 384 players right?)

good luck with all this new innovation!!!

eddiejag · Post by **eddiejag** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:16 pm

I think its a great idea , are you kidding me we get to have christmas back to back day's.I wouldnt worry about the auctions im sure the same guys and gal's who love them will come one day earlier.

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:21 pm

Eddie, I guess it's just me then. I'm not going to be able to do it. I guess I'm out of my league money wise. Time for a cheaper hobby.

Spartacus · Post by **Spartacus** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:46 pm

I agree with Eddie. It's just one more day of fun. The only thing I will personally avoid this year is back to back drafts. Last year I did the Main and Super with an hour and a half break in between. It wasn't enough of a breather, I'm too dang old for a marathon like that. I'm also convinced that this is why Eddie's ahead of me at the break in Super 1. He's much younger y'know.

Bob

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:57 pm

Greg-

1-I would much rather do the 15 team event first. The 12 team event would be different, but I wouldn't want to give away anything the night before. I think you could have the draft on Saturday night. The 12 team event would take less time.

2-If you think the drops are tough in a 15 team event, you will have a complete circus keeping track of a 12 team event with the same bench.

My vote is for two drafts on Saturday with the NFBC going first.

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:54 pm

2-If you think the drops are tough in a 15 team event, you will have a complete circus keeping track of a 12 team event with the same bench. I think people hold drops to a lower standard when there are more free agents. No one blinks at drops in a (competitive) Yahoo league that would be unfathomable here.

To me, the draw of a 12 team league would be that you have a bigger stake in the ability to correct for injuries and so forth via free agents and therefore the short bench is attractive.

[ July 14, 2008, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: bjoak ]