Ideas For 2009 NFBC

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:14 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

Just wanted to drop a note and say just because I do not post on these boards anymore. Does not mean I still have not seen one post by John Zaleski that I agree with. Good points plymouth and all of them need to be considered long and hard by Greg. I trust he will. Now back to my undisclosed, secret location. Signed,

President of the Underground Network.

Since day one, I find it very humorous that so many think this kind of info is so valuable when the results prove it irrelevant, that I joke about it.

PROVE me wrong is all I ask. Try that instead of a blanket statement against me. Discuss why I am wrong.

Let's see, I saw two different types of instances here this year. Both, I truly don't care about and truly find it interesting that this info is so important to them. One is in 5th place, one is in 14th place. How does it help them?

Yes, you know who they like. Guess what, there are at least 10 other owners that like them as much and want them just as bad, making each draft so different, that this is just a waste of time IMO.

It's also a false assumption that when you look at who Jupinka took Round 2, that that's the #1 guy he wanted there. It could easily have been his 3rd choice Rd 2. So now you armed with faulty data. How does this help YOUR team win?

I'm honored it happened to me this year. But I'm not sure why it happened since I'm #250 on the list, as so clearly pointed out so many times before.

P.S. Sorry I missed lunch and thanks for the invite. I was talking to Jules at the time, and consider her a very good friend, and wasn't ready to end that conversation.

[ July 17, 2008, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: UFS ]

Plymouth · Post by **Plymouth** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:40 am

I did not put my comments out there to provoke a fight, I just want to list some possible concerns for discussion.

As far as the ADP, I did not mean a specific ADP report would be available, I meant that ADP information from the East could be provided to drafters in the west through a variety of means.

I have drafted in Vegas, Chicago and Orlando and I don't see that the quality of the drafters is that much different, the competition is good and strong every where. Sure, Vegas is a fun city, I go there now and then myself but it does not make Vegas the city with the best players. If that was true then all the players that wanted to win the money would draft in Chicago, New York, or Orlando, they don't, they go where they think they will have fun, where time allows, maybe family concerns allow, or where they can afford to go, it is as simple as that. I don't buy the argument that players draft in Vegas because the competition is better, NFBC players are all smart and look for every advantage they can get and it wouldn't make sense to go somewhere to draft where you thought that the competition was stronger and it put you at a disadvantage of winning. NFBC players are in this for bragging rights and the money and if certain players thought they could gain an advantage by drafting in Orlando they would go there. If I play in 2009 I will probably draft in Orlando again. Why? Because I live in Minnesota but I spend February and March in Cape Coral, Florida so the drive to Orlando makes sense for me. The cream always rises to the top, it makes no difference if you draft Vegas, Chicago, Orlando, New York, or Timbuktu.

I find it amusing that most of the players here probably go to work everyday before 10:00 AM but don't want to do a draft before that time once or twice a year.

You can't make everyone happy all the time but you need to continue to treat everyone fairly all the time.

The discussion is interesting and I am sure that Greg will come up with something that will work.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:49 am

Originally posted by UFS:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

#2 While ADP’s won’t be processed, the Vegas folks will receive info that “Steve Jupinka” took these 10 players to start his team. Same goes for all the other top players. If you think that won’t happen, YOU ARE FOOLING YOURSELF. A simple text message accomplishes that VERY EASILY. 1) Please explain to me how this helps you draft YOUR winning team.

2) Please explain how it helps the rest of us when we don't know your 'sleeper' was actually a computer screw up until the next day. [/QUOTE]as soon as you explain how this is fair for everyone.

1. NY/FL drafts start

2. CHI draft starts

3. Peavy is selected in the 2nd or 3rd round in all NY/FL/CHI drafts

4. News hits the wire about Peavy missing season due to injury

5. Las Vegas begins their draft

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:54 am

#2 While ADP’s won’t be processed, the Vegas folks will receive info that “Steve Jupinka” took these 10 players to start his team. Same goes for all the other top players. If you think that won’t happen, YOU ARE FOOLING YOURSELF. A simple text message accomplishes that VERY EASILY. Gekko's post actually made me more concerned about this. What would happen if, say, Quahogs, Gekko, and CC were all drafting in NY and news broke that ALL 3 of them drafted Kelly Johnson in the 7th round. Is that not going to raise his ADP in Vegas? There is no way that doesn't skew the results, and I would argue that whether taking him is right or wrong doesn't matter. What matters is that the results of the national competition have been skewed by this element.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:21 am

Originally posted by bjoak:

quote:#2 While ADP’s won’t be processed, the Vegas folks will receive info that “Steve Jupinka” took these 10 players to start his team. Same goes for all the other top players. If you think that won’t happen, YOU ARE FOOLING YOURSELF. A simple text message accomplishes that VERY EASILY. Gekko's post actually made me more concerned about this. What would happen if, say, Quahogs, Gekko, and CC were all drafting in NY and news broke that ALL 3 of them drafted Kelly Johnson in the 7th round. Is that not going to raise his ADP in Vegas? There is no way that doesn't skew the results, and I would argue that whether taking him is right or wrong doesn't matter. What matters is that the results of the national competition have been skewed by this element. [/QUOTE]I don't give a sh** who drafts whom or when if they're not in my league. Guru coat-tailing is not a good strategy.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:26 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

I agree the time differential is a joke of an advantage. please explain how this joke would be played out to NY/FL/CHI owners...

1. NY/FL drafts start

2. CHI draft starts

3. Peavy is selected in the 2nd or 3rd round in all NY/FL/CHI drafts

4. News hits the wire about Peavy missing season due to injury

5. Las Vegas begins their draft

let's hear which city is laughing the hardest [/QUOTE]I'll happily take my chances drafting an hour earlier if you agree to swap all of your NY competitors for all the LV competitors in my lge. I think I'd win that battle.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:30 am

Originally posted by bjoak:

quote:#2 While ADP’s won’t be processed, the Vegas folks will receive info that “Steve Jupinka” took these 10 players to start his team. Same goes for all the other top players. If you think that won’t happen, YOU ARE FOOLING YOURSELF. A simple text message accomplishes that VERY EASILY. Gekko's post actually made me more concerned about this. What would happen if, say, Quahogs, Gekko, and CC were all drafting in NY and news broke that ALL 3 of them drafted Kelly Johnson in the 7th round. Is that not going to raise his ADP in Vegas? There is no way that doesn't skew the results, and I would argue that whether taking him is right or wrong doesn't matter. What matters is that the results of the national competition have been skewed by this element. [/QUOTE]exactly.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:31 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

I don't give a sh** who drafts whom or when if they're not in my league. Guru coat-tailing is not a good strategy. some people do. THAT'S THE POINT!!!

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:35 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

I'll happily take my chances drafting an hour earlier if you agree to swap all of your NY competitors for all the LV competitors in my lge. I think I'd win that battle. easy to pretend that's the reason for not doing as well as you think you should have. please, come with more ammo than that next time

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:40 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by UFS:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

#2 While ADP’s won’t be processed, the Vegas folks will receive info that “Steve Jupinka” took these 10 players to start his team. Same goes for all the other top players. If you think that won’t happen, YOU ARE FOOLING YOURSELF. A simple text message accomplishes that VERY EASILY. 1) Please explain to me how this helps you draft YOUR winning team.

2) Please explain how it helps the rest of us when we don't know your 'sleeper' was actually a computer screw up until the next day. [/QUOTE]as soon as you explain how this is fair for everyone.

1. NY/FL drafts start

2. CHI draft starts

3. Peavy is selected in the 2nd or 3rd round in all NY/FL/CHI drafts

4. News hits the wire about Peavy missing season due to injury

5. Las Vegas begins their draft [/QUOTE]As I indicated in my first post, Item #4 was not refuted by me. It made good sense, and along with your post, I'm now 100% in your camp, where I was 50/50 before.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:46 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

I'll happily take my chances drafting an hour earlier if you agree to swap all of your NY competitors for all the LV competitors in my lge. I think I'd win that battle. easy to pretend that's the reason for not doing as well as you think you should have. please, come with more ammo than that next time [/QUOTE]Against NFBC competition I'm ni the top 5 in 8/10 leagues this season. I'd be surprised in anyone doesn't have a bad lge or two out 10. One of them happens to be the main, for now. Disappointed? no

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:49 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

I don't give a sh** who drafts whom or when if they're not in my league. Guru coat-tailing is not a good strategy. some people do. THAT'S THE POINT!!! [/QUOTE]If enough people care, then run them at the same time as always, I don't really care one way or another - but I do think the argument is far overblown.

I just don't want to go to bed and get up early in Vegas because the east coast can't stay up past 9 o'clock.

Sheep · Post by **Sheep** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:58 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

I just don't want to go to bed and get up early in Vegas because the east coast can't stay up past 9 o'clock. [/QB]Great Point. Did you notice all the empty "prime" seats at the all-star game? I bought season tickets for two years just to get the chance to buy tickets when they were in Detroit.

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:10 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

I don't give a sh** who drafts whom or when if they're not in my league. Guru coat-tailing is not a good strategy. some people do. THAT'S THE POINT!!! [/QUOTE]Right, I wasn't saying people should do that or something. The point is that it changes the outcome of the draft. And, Kevin, if you were going to take Tulo mid 3rd this year and heard that in all the east drafts he was going early 3rd, you'd take him in the 2nd. That's what you do. No one would use that kind of strategy more than you.

Agree about the start time. I think people would really be displeased about that when the time comes. If I'm not in Vegas for a convention, I don't want to be walking into a convention center at 8:30. It's supposed to be about fun.

Bama · Post by **Bama** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:15 am

Ill have to agree with kevin about the start time on sat. For those of us that do the fri. night auctions we would have less than 10 hours turnaround to eat,sleep,prepare and any other thing we need to do before two drafts on saturday. Something would have to give. I would prefer not to give up the auction leagues i do for another draft lge but that seems to be where were heading, or do 2 drafts on about 4 hours sleep.

[ July 17, 2008, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: KLN ]

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:58 am

Originally posted by bjoak:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

I don't give a sh** who drafts whom or when if they're not in my league. Guru coat-tailing is not a good strategy. some people do. THAT'S THE POINT!!! [/QUOTE]Right, I wasn't saying people should do that or something. The point is that it changes the outcome of the draft. And, Kevin, if you were going to take Tulo mid 3rd this year and heard that in all the east drafts he was going early 3rd, you'd take him in the 2nd. That's what you do. No one would use that kind of strategy more than you.

Agree about the start time. I think people would really be displeased about that when the time comes. If I'm not in Vegas for a convention, I don't want to be walking into a convention center at 8:30. It's supposed to be about fun. [/QUOTE]Not true. I only concern myself with where I think someone in my league is taking him. So only if Quahogs was gonna fly out to Vegas after drafting him in round X in New York, would I want to know where he was taken.

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:05 am

I'd argue that if he is going in the early third in most drafts that is where someone in your league is most likely to take him. Moreover, if others in your league have the information from the east, it is going to drive up his likelihood of being taken earlier in your own league.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:09 am

Knowing a lot of quahogs and childs draft IS valuable info before your own draft begins. If someone can't see that, they must be blind.

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:16 am

Originally posted by KLN:

Ill have to agree with kevin about the start time on sat. For those of us that do the fri. night auctions we would have less than 10 hours turnaround to eat,sleep,prepare and any other thing we need to do before two drafts on saturday. Something would have to give. I would prefer not to give up the auction leagues i do for another draft lge but that seems to be where were heading, or do 2 drafts on about 4 hours sleep. Didn't I see you gambling 4 days after the main event in Vegas? I know you will be ready to draft when you get off the plane. The Die Hards play the auctions on Friday night because they enjoy that style of play. Doing two auctions in a day is mentally taxing for many, you have to be alert at all times. As two drafts in a day makes for a long day, it is a lot less stressful because of the pace.

The auction leagues are secondary events. The main core of auction players have no problem doing two in day. I'm sure they don't need beauty sleep before the main event.

I agree that all cities should start at the same time. I'd hate to see a Lackey situation with staggered times.

[ July 17, 2008, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: CC's Desperados ]

Hard Heads · Post by **Hard Heads** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:16 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by bjoak:

quote:#2 While ADP’s won’t be processed, the Vegas folks will receive info that “Steve Jupinka” took these 10 players to start his team. Same goes for all the other top players. If you think that won’t happen, YOU ARE FOOLING YOURSELF. A simple text message accomplishes that VERY EASILY. Gekko's post actually made me more concerned about this. What would happen if, say, Quahogs, Gekko, and CC were all drafting in NY and news broke that ALL 3 of them drafted Kelly Johnson in the 7th round. Is that not going to raise his ADP in Vegas? There is no way that doesn't skew the results, and I would argue that whether taking him is right or wrong doesn't matter. What matters is that the results of the national competition have been skewed by this element. [/QUOTE]I don't give a sh** who drafts whom or when if they're not in my league. Guru coat-tailing is not a good strategy. [/QUOTE]I agree with this. Who f***ing cares who the gurus take. Not once did I go over to check CC's or Kenyon's or Jules or anyone else's picks and say holy **** , they know more then me, I better take them. The only issue with having drafts not start simultaneously is for breaking news. I would have been very upset to be an east coast drafter and had taken Lackey only to find out 10 minutes later that he was hurt and knowing that the people in Vegas now had this news prior to starting. That should be the only concern that matters. Just my two cents. No offense to the top players, but this kid isn't a sheep and I only care about who you took after the fact.

Bama · Post by **Bama** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:25 am

originally posted by gordon gekko. Knowing a lot of quahogs and childs draft IS valuable info before your own draft begins. If someone can't see that, they must be blind.

For someone that doesnt have the ability to think for themselves i suppose this information might be helpful. they would still have to manage their team and without the ability to think i would not be concerned about their abilities to field a winning team.

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:31 am

Originally posted by Hard Heads:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by bjoak:

quote:#2 While ADP’s won’t be processed, the Vegas folks will receive info that “Steve Jupinka” took these 10 players to start his team. Same goes for all the other top players. If you think that won’t happen, YOU ARE FOOLING YOURSELF. A simple text message accomplishes that VERY EASILY. Gekko's post actually made me more concerned about this. What would happen if, say, Quahogs, Gekko, and CC were all drafting in NY and news broke that ALL 3 of them drafted Kelly Johnson in the 7th round. Is that not going to raise his ADP in Vegas? There is no way that doesn't skew the results, and I would argue that whether taking him is right or wrong doesn't matter. What matters is that the results of the national competition have been skewed by this element. [/QUOTE]I don't give a sh** who drafts whom or when if they're not in my league. Guru coat-tailing is not a good strategy. [/QUOTE]I agree with this. Who f***ing cares who the gurus take. Not once did I go over to check CC's or Kenyon's or Jules or anyone else's picks and say holy **** , they know more then me, I better take them. The only issue with having drafts not start simultaneously is for breaking news. I would have been very upset to be an east coast drafter and had taken Lackey only to find out 10 minutes later that he was hurt and knowing that the people in Vegas now had this news prior to starting. That should be the only concern that matters. Just my two cents. No offense to the top players, but this kid isn't a sheep and I only care about who you took after the fact. [/QUOTE]I feel like Bruce Willis in that movie where he is dead but for some reason he can't figure out that no one can see him. ONE MORE TIME: I didn't say I'd do this. The answer to who cares is other people. Whether you agree with it or not, it will happen and it will affect the results of the draft you are in. If one city has skewed (fancy word for changed) results for any reason I think it changes the playing field.

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:32 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Knowing a lot of quahogs and childs draft IS valuable info before your own draft begins. If someone can't see that, they must be blind. Only if you draft from a very similar spot.

One only has to check out auction draft boards the day before to see who they like, if they are into that sort of thing.

150 drafted in LV last year. How could this info possibly get disseminated to all so quickly?

And if it came from you, how would we know it to be true?

I think I'll stand up right before the draft in LV next year, put my crackberry next to my ear, and shout out, "Jupy, GG each took Votto in Rd 3 in NY!! That would have more effect than the UGN.

Where's lance when you need him!!

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:38 am

Originally posted by UFS:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Knowing a lot of quahogs and childs draft IS valuable info before your own draft begins. If someone can't see that, they must be blind. Only if you draft from a very similar spot.

One only has to check out auction draft boards the day before to see who they like, if they are into that sort of thing.

150 drafted in LV last year. How could this info possibly get disseminated to all so quickly?

And if it came from you, how would we know it to be true?

I think I'll stand up right before the draft in LV next year, put my crackberry next to my ear, and shout out, "Jupy, GG each took Votto in Rd 3 in NY!! That would have more effect than the UGN.

Where's lance when you need him!!

[/QUOTE]If I could get my hands on John's Roto lab....

Bama · Post by **Bama** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:42 am

Originally posted by CC's Desperados

[QUOTE] Originally posted by KLN:

Ill have to agree with kevin about the start time on sat. For those of us that do the fri. night auctions we would have less than 10 hours turnaround to eat,sleep,prepare and any other thing we need to do before two drafts on saturday. Something would have to give. I would prefer not to give up the auction leagues i do for another draft lge but that seems to be where were heading, or do 2 drafts on about 4 hours sleep. Didn't I see you gambling 4 days after the main event in Vegas? I know you will be ready to draft when you get off the plane. The Die Hards play the auctions on Friday night because they enjoy that style of play. Doing two auctions in a day is mentally taxing for many, you have to be alert at all times. As two drafts in a day makes for a long day, it is a lot less stressful because of the pace.

The auction leagues are secondary events. The main core of auction players have no problem doing two in day. I'm sure they don't need beauty sleep before the main event.

I agree that all cities should start at the same time. I'd hate to see a Lackey situation with staggered times.

Maybe its a good idea to keep the start times the same, but having to start at 9am is not a good solution in my mind. Shawn you should know im all buisness while the drafts and auctions are going on. Still will need to sleep and would like to have time to eat and check on breaking news between auctions and drafts. Ill say that being able to get any useful information from a draft that started a hour earlier is just plain silly.

[ July 17, 2008, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: KLN ]