Is Josh Hamilton better than Carlos Quentin?

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:25 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

I drafted him in the 26th round a couple years ago in a WTA. Last year I was worried about him being healthy for a whole year after seeing him go through some injuries in 2007. Umm, I was wrong. and u aren't worried about a player with a broken wrist?????????????????????? [/QUOTE]He had a broken wrist, past tense. That was 5 months ago and and he will be 7 months removed when the season starts. I did mention that Carlos has been swinging since December with no pain. I certainly wouldn't draft a player WITH a broken wrist.

Now if I were talking about Hamilton's drug addiction that wouldn't be past tense, current tense or future tense, it's all three combined.

I never once said I would draft Carlos and I didn't say he wasn't a risk. I merely suggested his draft position compared to Hamilton was more largely based on Hamilton's popularity and intriguing story than the numbers themselves. I think both are risky in that they have only done it one year. I mean this is baseball. It's an up and down sport. Hamilton could falter, flourish, get injured or die of an overdose while Quentin hits 50 homers. You never know for sure.

One thing's for sure, the most wonderful part about baseball is you see something new every year that you've never seen before.

And I for one am looking forward to the baseball season as much as any other.

[ February 21, 2009, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Crazy Like a Fox ]

jamesmaples · Post by **jamesmaples** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:33 am

I am not saying that I wouldn't draft Hamilton. I am just saying that once a drug user there is always a chance for relapse. I read his book and he put everything in his life second to his drug use. I think it is an error to think that there is not a chance for a relapse. The type of people that succumb to addiction are very weak willed.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:34 am

Originally posted by eddiejag:

quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:

quote:Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

quote:Originally posted by jamesmaples:

One other thing to think about when drafting Hamilton is that he is a drug addict. He is tested and tested and all he has to do is fail one and he is done for 2009. I was going to delve into his drug addiction a little bit but I decided to just talk about numbers. He is a drug addict and hopefully he stays drug-free, the odds are certainly against him. [/QUOTE]I disagree. He's been off them for awhile now. He's got good family/spiritual support now. Kinsler and Young have provided the support in a huge way last year team wise.

Kinsler grabbed Young and they went to Josh's first press conference after the trade to Texas to support him. That was huge for Josh, espeically after....

I know for a fact that Reds players mocked Hamilton's past and teased him about his drug issues the entire time he was there. A relapse was possible if he remained in Cincy. [/QUOTE]Still Hamilton being the drug addict he was still has to go in the risk department.You never know their's been addict's who go 25 years then wake up one mourning and decide today's the day.Do i think Hamilton will make that mistake, NO.But you cant just throw it out or at least i dont. [/QUOTE]I agree. It has to be taken into consideration. I don't think you can just assume that everything is rosy now so there's nothing to worry about. All it takes is one slip and he's headed toward rehab......well, drug rehab.

It would be interesting to see him on Celebrity Rehab. I gotta think it might be the most watched show ever when you bring the baseball loving population into it.

Maybe we can get Dr. Drew on the message board for a Q&A on Hamilton's chances of relapsing and what his challenges will be as a ballplayer in the spotlight trying to stay drug-free. I'm sure he wouldn't be as optimistic as the diehard baseball fan of his sobriety.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:36 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:

geez, forgot about the drug thing. HATE to see something like that happen. Wow, would hate it even more if I had him. Yeah, if I owned him I'd rather have him be addicted to steroids.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:51 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:

geez, forgot about the drug thing. HATE to see something like that happen. Wow, would hate it even more if I had him. WAY to transparent, Q...try harder to conceal the bluff next time!

~Lance

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:15 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

quote:Originally posted by Quahogs:

geez, forgot about the drug thing. HATE to see something like that happen. Wow, would hate it even more if I had him. WAY to transparent, Q...try harder to conceal the bluff next time!

~Lance [/QUOTE]It did look like he said it tongue-in-cheek.

One thing's for sure. People REALLY like him this year.

I personally think Carlos Lee is a much safer pick regardless of round and should give similar numbers across the board. But that's just me.

Lee can be had in the 2nd round while Hamilton is obviously going in the first.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:17 am

On a side note: Would Jules take Hamilton with the first overall pick? She just might.

Props to her for being all over him last year.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:17 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

quote:Originally posted by Quahogs:

geez, forgot about the drug thing. HATE to see something like that happen. Wow, would hate it even more if I had him. WAY to transparent, Q...try harder to conceal the bluff next time!

~Lance [/QUOTE]I don't dance behind the line Lance. I take the ball right up the middle.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:32 am

Geez, but ain't Crazy been pumping out a lot of good stuff lately ??

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:54 am

Originally posted by eddiejag:

Still Hamilton being the drug addict he was still has to go in the risk department.You never know their's been addict's who go 25 years then wake up one mourning and decide today's the day.Do i think Hamilton will make that mistake, NO.But you cant just throw it out or at least i dont. sorry eddie. i don't discount hamilton at all for past drug use. he's about as sure a thing as there is.

if u did discount him and he is #9 on your list, where would he rank if you didn't discount him, #5?

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:01 pm

Originally posted by jamesmaples:

I am not saying that I wouldn't draft Hamilton. I am just saying that once a drug user there is always a chance for relapse. I read his book and he put everything in his life second to his drug use. I think it is an error to think that there is not a chance for a relapse. The type of people that succumb to addiction are very weak willed. would you say that people who have anger management problems (quentin breaks his own wrist) are prone to having additional anger issues?

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:03 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by eddiejag:

[qb] Still Hamilton being the drug addict he was still has to go in the risk department.You never know their's been addict's who go 25 years then wake up one mourning and decide today's the day.Do i think Hamilton will make that mistake, NO.But you cant just throw it out or at least i dont. sorry eddie. i don't discount hamilton at all for past drug use. he's about as sure a thing as there is.

______________________________________________________________

Seriously, do you really think one productive year garners the phrase, "he's about as sure a thing as there is."

Do you think he's "as sure a thing" as A-rod who's been highly productive 13 years in a row?

And A-rod's drug choice is steroids as opposed to crack.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

[ February 21, 2009, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Crazy Like a Fox ]

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:09 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by eddiejag:

Still Hamilton being the drug addict he was still has to go in the risk department.You never know their's been addict's who go 25 years then wake up one mourning and decide today's the day.Do i think Hamilton will make that mistake, NO.But you cant just throw it out or at least i dont. sorry eddie. i don't discount hamilton at all for past drug use. he's about as sure a thing as there is.

if u did discount him and he is #9 on your list, where would he rank if you didn't discount him, #5? [/QUOTE]Maybe it would have been better if I labeled this thread, Is Josh Hamilton better than Carlos Lee?

I had no idea he was getting this much love.

eddiejag · Post by **eddiejag** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:42 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by eddiejag:

Still Hamilton being the drug addict he was still has to go in the risk department.You never know their's been addict's who go 25 years then wake up one mourning and decide today's the day.Do i think Hamilton will make that mistake, NO.But you cant just throw it out or at least i dont. sorry eddie. i don't discount hamilton at all for past drug use. he's about as sure a thing as there is.

if u did discount him and he is #9 on your list, where would he rank if you didn't discount him, #5? [/QUOTE]I never said i would discount him just said their is some risk even if i feel its small or i wouldnt have him in my top 10.Puljos was risk last year for different reasons though i had him at a mucher higher risk factor and passed on him in the 2nd round.Arod is now risk as he has to show the world he can produce with no roids.I have Braun and Hamilton about even but feel Braun has a little less risk.Im not sure if that makes sense but im not discounting Hamilton just feel he does have a little more risk than some of the others.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:59 pm

Without steroids, maybe he's goes back to the player he was in his first year. Lower homers but higher stolen bases. It'll even itself out.

I worry more about A-rod's head than his body. Is he going to be able to handle the scrutiny of the media, especially now that his secret is out?

The Yankee fans will be twice as brutal on him if he slumps. He won't go one day next year without hearing something about steroids yelled at him.

Still, it's not like he's a real risk. I don't think there's been anybody as consistent and reliable over this kind of stretch, ever. How's that for avoiding risk in the 1st round?

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:10 pm

Drug use/abuse is 90% or more who you spend time with.

Remove the bad influences from your life and replace them with good ones...and the chances at relapse drops significantly. He would have screwed up in the first few months or year if he was going to get back into drugs.

Drug abusers are not weak willed...the willpower they show to abstain completely for life is unmatched by Joe average's will power.

~Lance

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:17 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by jamesmaples:

I am not saying that I wouldn't draft Hamilton. I am just saying that once a drug user there is always a chance for relapse. I read his book and he put everything in his life second to his drug use. I think it is an error to think that there is not a chance for a relapse. The type of people that succumb to addiction are very weak willed. would you say that people who have anger management problems (quentin breaks his own wrist) are prone to having additional anger issues? [/QUOTE]Why don't you watch the replay of what happen? It didn't look like it was anything major and it didn't look like something that would break a bone in his wrist.

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:42 pm

Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

Seriously, do you really think one productive year garners the phrase, "he's about as sure a thing as there is."

listen - he's number 8 on my list. if u don't like him that "high", that's fine. the researchers at GG Industries have told me there is no chance for a drug relapse. i can't argue with his numbers. he's in a great hitter's park with good lineup protection. one of the few players with no concerns.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:48 pm

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by jamesmaples:

I am not saying that I wouldn't draft Hamilton. I am just saying that once a drug user there is always a chance for relapse. I read his book and he put everything in his life second to his drug use. I think it is an error to think that there is not a chance for a relapse. The type of people that succumb to addiction are very weak willed. would you say that people who have anger management problems (quentin breaks his own wrist) are prone to having additional anger issues? [/QUOTE]Why don't you watch the replay of what happen? It didn't look like it was anything major and it didn't look like something that would break a bone in his wrist. [/QUOTE]He did say he could have played in the 2nd round of the playoffs if he had to. I'm sure he learned his lesson. It probably took the MVP trophy away from him. That's a pretty good lesson.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:50 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

Seriously, do you really think one productive year garners the phrase, "he's about as sure a thing as there is."

listen - he's number 8 on my list. if u don't like him that "high", that's fine. the researchers at GG Industries have told me there is no chance for a drug relapse. i can't argue with his numbers. he's in a great hitter's park with good lineup protection. one of the few players with no concerns. [/QUOTE]I like how you put "high" in quotations.

He's much too "high" to be taken in the 1st round.

eddiejag · Post by **eddiejag** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:50 pm

Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

[qbt steroids, maybe he's goes back to the player he was in his first year. Lower homers but highe] Withour stolen bases. It'll even itself out.

I worry more about A-rod's head than his body. Is he going to be able to handle the scrutiny of the media, especially now that his secret is out?

The Yankee fans will be twice as brutal on him if he slumps. He won't go one day next year without hearing something about steroids yelled at him.

Crazy that's what i mean about Arod will he be able to handle the fan's everywhere if he's in a slump.We see how he handles the playoff's notvery well.Believe or not i will be avoiding Arod this year even putting Wright in front of him. RISK IN THE HEAD.

Still, it's not like he's a real risk. I don't think there's been anybody as consistent and reliable over this kind of stretch, ever. How's that for avoiding risk in the 1st round? [/qb]

[ February 21, 2009, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: eddiejag ]

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:00 pm

Originally posted by eddiejag:

quote:Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

Without steroids, maybe he's goes back to the player he was in his first year. Lower homers but higher stolen bases. It'll even itself out.

I worry more about A-rod's head than his body. Is he going to be able to handle the scrutiny of the media, especially now that his secret is out?

The Yankee fans will be twice as brutal on him if he slumps. He won't go one day next year without hearing something about steroids yelled at him.

Crazy that's what i mean about Arod will he be able to handle the fan's everywhere if he's in a slump.We see how he handles the playoff's notvery well.Believe or not i will be avoiding Arod this year even putting Wright in front of him. RISK IN THE HEAD.

Still, it's not like he's a real risk. I don't think there's been anybody as consistent and reliable over this kind of stretch, ever. How's that for avoiding risk in the 1st round? [/QUOTE]I hear what you're saying. But A-rod's potential is far higher than Wright's.

A-rod's 162 game average is .306-44-127-127 runs- 22 sb's

D-Wright's 162 game average is .309-30-113-107 runs - 21 sb's.

You could be right about A-rod's head, it's scary the kind of scrutiny he will go through. He just has this every other year thing the past 6 years where he goes from mid-30 homer to high 40/low 50 homer years. David Wright doesn't have that kind of potential.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:30 pm

Really after looking up the ongoings of his life on Wikipedia, it makes him look more of an unsure thing. His past has been tumultous at best, and something tells me he might be the kind of player that breaks down toward the end of the year. I'm not saying he's injury prone, there's no basis for that argument, yet. I just have my doubts he's going to be a perennial 155 game player.

We'll just have to wait and see. He's certainly an interesting topic of conversation. I can't wait to see what he does this year.

Dub · Post by **Dub** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:45 am

If you draft from the 8 hole or up- you could get BOTH Hamilton and Quentin

Now that you compared these guys with ONE year. Stack their numbers up against 7th round Ludwick. He is in the discussion imho.

104 R

37- hrs

113 RBis

4 SBs

299 Ave

jamesmaples · Post by **jamesmaples** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:45 am

Hamilton could definitely miss some time due to having his teeth repaired. Crack kills your teeth.