Interpretation of Current Friday DL Rule

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon May 04, 2009 8:42 am

I want everyone to be aware of how the Friday DL rule is going to be run the rest of the 2009 season. We are not changing the rule or even the wording of it, but folks should realize that we are manually tweaking it slightly from our end.

Here is the current rule: 13. Submitting Starting Lineups: The weekly NFBC deadline for setting starting lineups is 6:55 p.m. ET each Monday. Any game that occurs before that, NFBC owners are required to get those players involved in their starting lineups five minutes before the start of those games. Owners are also allowed to remove a player (or players) who is officially on the DL from their starting lineup with one of their players from their reserve roster before each Friday's first game as long as the position eligibility works out. Players must officially be on Major League Baseball's DL list according to STATS and the NFBC by 12:01 a.m. on Friday for this move (or moves) to take effect for the weekend games.

Our current programming with STATS is time-stamped when the pitcher/player officially comes off the DL according to Major League Baseball. Thus you can reserve that pitcher/player if you started him in your lineup up until the time he officially comes off the DL. In the past, that would allow you to, say, start John Lackey with his DL designation, reserve him on Tuesday, get his stats from his start during the week and replace him with a SP who may pitch on the weekend and get both starts/results.

Nothing in the rules says this should be set up this way and I'm sure it happens very rarely. But going forward, if you start a pitcher who is on the DL and he comes off the DL before Friday's first game, as the rule states, then that pitcher will be locked in your starting lineup even if you tried to take advantage of the software. STATS is keeping track of each pitcher who comes off the DL during the Monday-Friday time period and will e-mail me with that list and then we will look at the weekend starting lineups to make sure nobody is getting double the stats, good or bad. In the last two weeks, only two relievers have come off the DL during the week and no NFBC owner has substituted for them during the week. It's been an easy, painless process for STATS and myself.

So this is just a heads up going forward. We have no problem with you starting a DL'd pitcher, but if he does come off the DL Monday through Friday then he will just remain in your starting lineup as you originally planned. We won't allow a substitute for the weekend if that pitcher is already active and it happened during the week.

This only applies to pitchers. Hope this makes sense. Good luck all the rest of the way. We will make any changes on Saturday morning when I'm alerted to all changes and honestly it takes only a couple of minutes with the way STATS has this set up. We'll also e-mail any affected owners going forward.

Good luck all.

Dirt Dogs · Post by **Dirt Dogs** » Mon May 04, 2009 8:51 am

very simple and honest adjustment, that makes alot of sense.

Good work Tom & Greg!

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Mon May 04, 2009 10:17 am

excellent! the less DL abuse, the better IMO

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon May 11, 2009 5:16 am

Just a heads up to all those owners who have John Lackey and Ervin Santana this week: If you start them this week and they come off the DL in time to pitch before Friday, they will NOT be allowed to be replaced for the weekend games. If the system allows this move and allows their stats from any start Monday through Thursday, we will manually reverse the move and keep them in your starting lineup. This will be the case for any NFBC league: live event, online championship or satellite league.

Good luck all and keep your players healthy.

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Mon May 11, 2009 2:10 pm

OK:

So I'm coming into the FAAB period and realize that stars like Dustin Pedroia, Chipper Jones, D Lee, and Carlos Delgado are questionable for the start of the week. None appear to be playing early in the week because of injuries, but will more than likely not be placed on the DL.

Let me go to the waiver wire and do some research. For example, this week is a great time to play this angle. Most MLB teams aren't playing until Tuesday which will afford me an edge. You see, I'll find a player that appears to ready to be ACTIVATED on Tuesday and pick him up as insurance against one of my above listed superstars not being ready to play till the weekend. Therefore, I can place this currently DL'd player in my lineup and gain his AB's for early in the week. Soon as the Monday 6:55pm deadline hits - I place the superstar back into the lineup for the weekend and hope he is ready without taking the risk of a blank for playing Pedroia, D Lee, Chipper, Delgado. I realize this weeks name is a bad example - but I believe Josh Hamilton fits my above example .... but there will be others and this will happen every week.

My question - is this the purpose of the Friday DL Rule?

Clearly not. Now, if you are taking the Loophole away for the pitchers why not go all the way? Doesn't matter to me that it can be done RARELY - it can be done. A smart player will look to maximize this loophole as the season goes forward and doubleheaders are added. Maximize the games in Coors field and Coors Field East - Yankee Stadium.

Another Loophole - I own Andrew Miller, currently listed on the DL. Picked him up this week and not exactly excited to throw him until I see him pitch. Heck, I may never use him. He has a Monday night rehab start scheduled. I also own a few other pitchers scheduled to start this weekend. Provided that the Marlins don't activate Andrew till after Friday ( he could pitch Saturday - so it "appears" safe he won't go earlier than that ) I can buy a few extra days to make my decision on whom to throw over the weekend. I can do this by placing Andrew in on Monday prior to the deadline with his DL designation. Granted, the DOUBLE start possibility has been taken away with the "NEW" watchdog rule but manipulating the Friday D/L Rule as currently in place allows me an edge not afforded to the other members of my league. They must make those weekend decisions PRIOR to the week starting all because they arent lucky enough (smart enough - GG/

) to have a $1 D/L pickup handy on there reserve list.

My Question - Is this the purpose of the Friday D/L rule?

Clearly not. These examples are posted not to anger Greg and/or Tom. Simply to point out that if they continue to use this rule, good players will find a way around the rule no matter how good intentioned they attempt to be. I don't like being at the whim of MLB teams decisions on who they do and do not place on the DL and having it linked to a timestamp. It could work for me or against me on any given week, that isn't the point. Bottom line is that I'd rather lose a player on a Monday and take a blank than being at the mercy of MLB teams and DL timestamps. I shouldn't lose ground in any league because one of the other 14 teams were lucky enough to take advantage of the Friday D/L rule. Factor this in to the Overall competition as well, because these moves can and will decide who wins and who loses no matter how small they appear to be.

Blow this rule up at years end.......please.

[ May 11, 2009, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: Sack ]

Captain Crunch · Post by **Captain Crunch** » Mon May 11, 2009 2:36 pm

Please get rid of this rule. No rule, no abuse. If there's interest in leagues with bi-weekly or daily moves, set them up, but leave a game with weekly transactions as a game with weekly transactions.

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Mon May 11, 2009 3:02 pm

SACK, I agree. I wish I could state things as well as you do. But nope the devil in me always sneeks out.

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Mon May 11, 2009 3:08 pm

Tim "Captain Crunch", well stated my friend.

John, appreciate - don't think allowing my devil out would have been well received. I tried to be as diplomatic as possible by simply pointing a few things out.

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Mon May 11, 2009 3:10 pm

Originally posted by Sack:

They must make those weekend decisions PRIOR to the week starting all because they arent lucky enough to have a $1 D/L pickup handy on there reserve list.

sack - "luck" doesn't have anything to do with it. ANYONE can pick up a DL pitcher any given sunday. there are plenty of them available each week.

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Mon May 11, 2009 3:20 pm

Mark - agreed. But if you are going to be ticky-tack about my words I'll correct you. Not ANYONE can make a pickup. Only teams with at least $1 remaining in FAAB would be entitled to make a pickup.

Just pointing out some other ways to manipulate the Friday D/L Rule in hopes that by years end it goes away.

I'm not for 2x a week moves. Captain Crunch stated it best. Weekly game - leave the transactions weekly.

[ May 11, 2009, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: Sack ]

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon May 11, 2009 3:58 pm

Ken, all loopholes of the Friday DL Rules would be closed off if one simple fix is applied: If a player in your starting lineup as of the Monday deadline has a DL-designation, then his spot is locked for the week.

Could you live with this?

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:21 pm

Originally posted by Captain Crunch:

Please get rid of this rule. No rule, no abuse. If there's interest in leagues with bi-weekly or daily moves, set them up, but leave a game with weekly transactions as a game with weekly transactions. Agree 100%.

Create any loophole, and it will be abused to the utmost, with "I'm playing within the rules" as the out.

"Once" weekly moves has all the strategy of twice and 7 times weekly...just less opportunities to adjust and redo.

The NFBC was never broke...and may have been broken a bit while trying to maintain.

I hate Sunday as the day of free agency and setting lineups...most holidays and vacations fall on Sundays. I understand the games wrap up a little earlier and can live with it...but I don't like dedicating 26 weeks of Sundays to this when Wednesday would catch many more people at home without screwing with family vacations and visits.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:26 pm

I don't understand the Friday DL rule as it stands because it only "partially" achieves its stated "purpose", yet creates numerous loopholes, many still available as stated in Sack's post.

It supposedly was established to protect teams from being negatively affected by injuries giving them 1/2 a week of zero stats. Yet it only achieves this goal a small amount of the time.

It does nothing for the injured player who is day to day....for instance the Youkilas owners this past week (I could give dozens of examples already this year). Why were these owners not protected? They suffered through zero stats.

It also provides the protection to the team owner whose player is placed on the DL Thursday night, but not the owner whose player is placed on the DL Friday afternoon......why? I don't understand providing the protection for some teams and not others based on a timestamp.

This rule seems extremely arbitrary in its current form. Its stated purpose has merit....but only provides protection to some of the owners some of the time based on criteria that is honestly picked out of a hat.

For all the controversy this rule creates, it doesn't seem worth it because though its goal is a noble one, it only partially and arbitrarily achieves it.

This is not a criticism, just an observation. Though I have not been dealing with this rule as long as most of the owners in this league, my short time here has already convinced me that its not worth the headaches.

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:28 pm

KOQ:

I like that to the point it helps the loopholes. But, it doesn't fix the issue of when teams designate a player for the D/L.

I think if one player in a 15 team league is allowed to make a substitution for an injured player it shouldn't conform to a random D/L designation from a MLB club by a certain time. The idea behind the rule was sound, but the application is flawed. Therefore, I think we go back to square one and leave it as weekly transactions. If you lose a player on Monday, all is fair under that scope IMO.

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:31 pm

G-X ........ well stated. Nice job.

I've had many other issues with this rule, it is amazing how a new twist and turn comes out of the blue. Pass the aspirin - my headache with this rule is a few years old.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:37 pm

One more thing....my criticism is only valid if the stated goal of the Friday DL rule is to protect owners from zero stats caused by injury....again because it is extremely partial and arbitrary in its current form.

However, if it is there for stategy, then that is a different ballgame altogether...but then loopholes should not be cut off, because loopholes are part of strategy.

The options are pretty clear to me. Either eliminate the rule altogether, make it all inclusive by eliminating either or both the timestamp and/or DL criteria of the rule to achieve its stated goal, or leave it as it is and accept all loopholes as part of strategy and state that upfront.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:38 pm

...not to mention it would MAXIMIZE the ability to enter more leagues/satellites, as the time needed to plan for free agency and setting lineups without all the BS loopholes to consider would be reduced.

"Evolve or Die" is not a yearly thing, by the way. :rolleyes:

GOD Loves You · Post by **GOD Loves You** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:49 pm

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

...not to mention it would MAXIMIZE the ability to enter more leagues/satellites, as the time needed to plan for free agency and setting lineups without all the BS loopholes to consider would be reduced.

"Evolve or Die" is not a yearly thing, by the way. :rolleyes: Lance, I hope you didn't vote for Obama with your want to continue riding in the Model T.

Seriously, with your incessant responses to possible changes, one would think you are being offered an STD or something.

GOD Loves You · Post by **GOD Loves You** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:50 pm

FYI: I didn't vote for change....REAL change would constitute a total reconstruction.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon May 11, 2009 5:01 pm

Change for the sake of change or appeasing whiners is not a reason for change.

I'm all for change if it is truly needed.

I've been for many changes here...just not this latest try at altering this game to please a few.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon May 11, 2009 5:04 pm

Actually...I'm for change right here on this thread.

Eliminating a poor DL rule that doesn't do nearly what it was created to do would be change.

NorCalAtlFan · Post by **NorCalAtlFan** » Mon May 11, 2009 5:05 pm

i hear you lance. fight the good fight!!

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Mon May 11, 2009 5:17 pm

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Actually...I'm for change right here on this thread.

Eliminating a poor DL rule that doesn't do nearly what it was created to do would be change. It was created to reduce days lost to injury, it does that to a small degree. It should be modified next season to do it to a larger degree.

Eliminating it is assinine. It's like someone saying "I need $100" and I tell them "I can give you $20 but not $100", which evokes their response of "that's not what I need, I'd rather have nothing". But I could see Lance saying that.

Jack Straw · Post by **Jack Straw** » Mon May 11, 2009 5:23 pm

That's a great adjustment.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon May 11, 2009 5:25 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Actually...I'm for change right here on this thread.

Eliminating a poor DL rule that doesn't do nearly what it was created to do would be change. It was created to reduce days lost to injury, it does that to a small degree. It should be modified next season to do it to a larger degree.

Eliminating it is assinine. It's like someone saying "I need $100" and I tell them "I can give you $20 but not $100", which evokes their response of "that's not what I need, I'd rather have nothing". But I could see Lance saying that.

[/QUOTE]The current DL rule helps ONLY THOSE TEAMS with...

a) A MAJOR injury resulting in a DL stint.

b) That DL stint is official by a cutoff.

c) The injury happens or blossoms either MON, TUE, WED or THU. (MON would be moot, as you already started the player, and THU would be pure luck if he hit the DL in time for the cutoff.)

I call that a weak and unneeded rule.

Eliminating it would create a more even playing field. One in which injuries are felt by team owners.

Be a man...shake it off.

Set your new and improved lineup the day that your player gets hurt if it makes you feel better...it will kick in Monday!

If you had a fool-proof loophole free plan...you would have already posted it. All the ideas I've seen so far have sucked. They either have nothing to do with injury, or have way too many ways that STATS could not program/enforce, or they create more loopholes than we already have.

[ May 11, 2009, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]